[Standard] Final Fantasy VII Mafia - Mafia Wins D4

Pralaya · November 3, 2016

Kat is one of those who I tend to always scum read, so she does tend to end up in my POE regardless.

Your approach is very different from mine, and I still don't feel like you've given me an explanation regarding your progression on me and the EOD of D1 in general.

Csarmi is down in POE basically because he was defending me, and then it felt like he needed to give people an opening or permission to vote me.

I guess I can see where this is coming from, since I was pushing Darthe and he ended up town. In my defense though, his D1 looked like nothing I would expect there at the end, and his white knighting Ironeyes before the claim just looked off to me.

I agree that Kat needs to be looked at more closely, but she's never around on the weekends. With Liz idk. She's such an unfamiliar player to me, and I don't know if her D1 was just her norm or whatever.

What does bother me however is that after the Ironeyes claim she goes after saying how Darthe knew Ironeyes was a villager. Well how did she know? TMI?
No, if you remember I said there were two possible reasons why Darthe would be town reading Ironeyes:
1. Fellow wolf, wanting to keep the lynch off

2. Knowing he was a villager and wanting to keep his hands clean.

I thought, ok, well even if Ironeyes is a villager, Scum!Darthe had his reasons to want to keep the lynch off of him, or at least not implicate himself in it. That's what I was alluding to.

Why did you follow Darthe's suggestion to vote Ironeyes instead of him?

Because I thought they were both wolves, so it didn't matter atp.

Okay, thanks.

What are your current reads right now? Top town and top scum.

I have Nyn and BFG as my top town. Towards the bottom I have Kat, you and Csarmi.

I have explained Nyn and BFG before.

Kat is one of those who I tend to always scum read, so she does tend to end up in my POE regardless.

Your approach is very different from mine, and I still don't feel like you've given me an explanation regarding your progression on me and the EOD of D1 in general.

Csarmi is down in POE basically because he was defending me, and then it felt like he needed to give people an opening or permission to vote me.

These are pretty much the only post that Sooh actively references Kat.

The first one is a vague remark that she needs to look at kat closely.

The second is a statement that she needs to look at her closely.

In the third, she had kat as the lowest and the reason being she always finds her scummy.

IMO, The last two posts doesn't sound like a wolf-townie push. It is quite weak in itself.

What do others think - does this sound w/w or w/v?

Lizabeth · November 3, 2016

Nyn this is why you are town and still alive ugh do you not think if I were scum you or Cory would be dead right now?? Probably you. This is why they didn't bother to kill either of you. Cause you both had me on your radar yesterday I was the counter wagon and an easy mislynch. Hallia still hasn't checked in. WAKE UP PEOPLE. That is EXACTLY what I did last game when we were scum. I don't know what else I can do to be town. This happens every game. I play them all the same and y'all keep mislynching me for my normal play. We can't afford another mislynch today.

I don't know what to do. I have done everything I said I would. I have made cases on people. I think csarmi and pral are scum. It's like I'm just ignored though. I can't help sooh didn't interact with me. We are usually not on at the same time. That's normal in almost every game I've played with her regardless of our alignments.

Why would you kill Nyn and Cory over BFG who was actually leading the counterwagon against you yesterday?

Sorry if this has already been answered.

Catching up!

because it's easier to convince BFG than cory or nyn. and also it'd have been easier to cast doubt on HER play.

How would you have cast doubt on BFGs? play? She was the only one who was pretty much universally townread this game.

Lizabeth · November 3, 2016

Kat is one of those who I tend to always scum read, so she does tend to end up in my POE regardless.

Your approach is very different from mine, and I still don't feel like you've given me an explanation regarding your progression on me and the EOD of D1 in general.

Csarmi is down in POE basically because he was defending me, and then it felt like he needed to give people an opening or permission to vote me.

I guess I can see where this is coming from, since I was pushing Darthe and he ended up town. In my defense though, his D1 looked like nothing I would expect there at the end, and his white knighting Ironeyes before the claim just looked off to me.

I agree that Kat needs to be looked at more closely, but she's never around on the weekends. With Liz idk. She's such an unfamiliar player to me, and I don't know if her D1 was just her norm or whatever.

What does bother me however is that after the Ironeyes claim she goes after saying how Darthe knew Ironeyes was a villager. Well how did she know? TMI?
No, if you remember I said there were two possible reasons why Darthe would be town reading Ironeyes:
1. Fellow wolf, wanting to keep the lynch off

2. Knowing he was a villager and wanting to keep his hands clean.

I thought, ok, well even if Ironeyes is a villager, Scum!Darthe had his reasons to want to keep the lynch off of him, or at least not implicate himself in it. That's what I was alluding to.

Why did you follow Darthe's suggestion to vote Ironeyes instead of him?

Because I thought they were both wolves, so it didn't matter atp.

Okay, thanks.

What are your current reads right now? Top town and top scum.

I have Nyn and BFG as my top town. Towards the bottom I have Kat, you and Csarmi.

I have explained Nyn and BFG before.

Kat is one of those who I tend to always scum read, so she does tend to end up in my POE regardless.

Your approach is very different from mine, and I still don't feel like you've given me an explanation regarding your progression on me and the EOD of D1 in general.

Csarmi is down in POE basically because he was defending me, and then it felt like he needed to give people an opening or permission to vote me.

These are pretty much the only post that Sooh actively references Kat.

The first one is a vague remark that she needs to look at kat closely.

The second is a statement that she needs to look at her closely.

In the third, she had kat as the lowest and the reason being she always finds her scummy.

IMO, The last two posts doesn't sound like a wolf-townie push. It is quite weak in itself.

What do others think - does this sound w/w or w/v?

I've already said what I think.

If it's not Kat, who would be your second choice?

Lizabeth · November 3, 2016

Csarmi, what's your current lynch preference list?

Lizabeth · November 3, 2016

Just realized I made an assumption about the setup :unsure:

Katiora · November 3, 2016

Nyn this is why you are town and still alive ugh do you not think if I were scum you or Cory would be dead right now?? Probably you. This is why they didn't bother to kill either of you. Cause you both had me on your radar yesterday I was the counter wagon and an easy mislynch. Hallia still hasn't checked in. WAKE UP PEOPLE. That is EXACTLY what I did last game when we were scum. I don't know what else I can do to be town. This happens every game. I play them all the same and y'all keep mislynching me for my normal play. We can't afford another mislynch today.

I don't know what to do. I have done everything I said I would. I have made cases on people. I think csarmi and pral are scum. It's like I'm just ignored though. I can't help sooh didn't interact with me. We are usually not on at the same time. That's normal in almost every game I've played with her regardless of our alignments.

Why would you kill Nyn and Cory over BFG who was actually leading the counterwagon against you yesterday?

Sorry if this has already been answered.

Catching up!

because it's easier to convince BFG than cory or nyn. and also it'd have been easier to cast doubt on HER play.

How would you have cast doubt on BFGs? play? She was the only one who was pretty much universally townread this game.

She never explained her vote on me. She switched to sooh last minute when it was almost assured that her vote was going through like she was just trying to get on the lynching train. She was much more confident early in the game than she normally is, and that could have been skewed as knowing too much.

I'm not saying that it would have worked but I would have been more likely to try it on her. As scum how would you try to throw shade at Nyn and Cory at this point?? Even if I could find something they are able to defend themselves well enough that it would just make me look bad if I were scum to even try. BFG doesn't have that, or hasn't had that to my knowledge. I stand by my statement. I kill Nyn or Cory every time last night as scum.

Nynaeve · November 3, 2016

These are pretty much the only post that Sooh actively references Kat.
The first one is a vague remark that she needs to look at kat closely.
The second is a statement that she needs to look at her closely.

In the third, she had kat as the lowest and the reason being she always finds her scummy.

IMO, The last two posts doesn't sound like a wolf-townie push. It is quite weak in itself.

What do others think - does this sound w/w or w/v?

I pointed it out in my ISO and commented on it in length. Sooh seems to mention her a bit but not actually follow through on any of it. It's a point of interest because I would sort of expect her to take a swing at Kat or even you, just for being low posters. But the difference is that you she doesn't mention you at all (not even in reads), where's in Kat's case she throws in these tiny nudges but never takes it further (like she did quite a bit with Liz, for instance), and then Kat just randomly ends up in her PoE, with the reasoning of "I always read her as scum". eh.

Nynaeve · November 3, 2016

Just realized I made an assumption about the setup

?

Lizabeth · November 3, 2016

She never explained her vote on me. She switched to sooh last minute when it was almost assured that her vote was going through like she was just trying to get on the lynching train. She was much more confident early in the game than she normally is, and that could have been skewed as knowing too much.

I'm not saying that it would have worked but I would have been more likely to try it on her. As scum how would you try to throw shade at Nyn and Cory at this point?? Even if I could find something they are able to defend themselves well enough that it would just make me look bad if I were scum to even try. BFG doesn't have that, or hasn't had that to my knowledge. I stand by my statement. I kill Nyn or Cory every time last night as scum.

She basically explained for most of the game that she did not like your easy town-read stance on Cory.

Here she explained that she didn't think you were playing to your town meta and threw in an example:

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/99552-standard-final-fantasy-vii-mafia-game-thread/?p=3722828

She was pretty consistent in being uneasy about you all the game through and there was no way in hell she was getting lynched this game with the way she played, given what I know from everyone else about her scum vs. town metas.

Every one has had her as their top town read except for maybe you. People have waffled over whether Cory or Nyn might be town, but not BFG since early D1. And she was the most likely one to be followed in voting today.

So...yeah...>.>

(love ya girl, but you so scum :D <3)

Lizabeth · November 3, 2016

Hi Nyn!

Lizabeth · November 3, 2016

Just realized I made an assumption about the setup

?

I'll explain later >.>

Nynaeve · November 3, 2016

Hi Nyn!

:wub:

Nynaeve · November 3, 2016

lol ok

Katiora · November 3, 2016

She never explained her vote on me. She switched to sooh last minute when it was almost assured that her vote was going through like she was just trying to get on the lynching train. She was much more confident early in the game than she normally is, and that could have been skewed as knowing too much.

I'm not saying that it would have worked but I would have been more likely to try it on her. As scum how would you try to throw shade at Nyn and Cory at this point?? Even if I could find something they are able to defend themselves well enough that it would just make me look bad if I were scum to even try. BFG doesn't have that, or hasn't had that to my knowledge. I stand by my statement. I kill Nyn or Cory every time last night as scum.

She basically explained for most of the game that she did not like your easy town-read stance on Cory.

Here she explained that she didn't think you were playing to your town meta and threw in an example:

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/99552-standard-final-fantasy-vii-mafia-game-thread/?p=3722828

She was pretty consistent in being uneasy about you all the game through and there was no way in hell she was getting lynched this game with the way she played, given what I know from everyone else about her scum vs. town metas.

Every one has had her as their top town read except for maybe you. People have waffled over whether Cory or Nyn might be town, but not BFG since early D1. And she was the most likely one to be followed in voting today.

So...yeah...>.>

(love ya girl, but you so scum :D <3)

nope... not scum. And the example BFG gave was not a good one. Did you actually read that game? Hellian allowed us to KILL someone if we got the right amount of votes on them during day phase and had an awesome night power too. I was doing everything in my power not to have her die and get to use that before she was gone. Didn't work out for me. Sooh didn't have that. I would have had NO trouble bussing her early on honestly. OR if I had been scum with her I wouldn't have made a case on her at all. And let me die instead. She was role-cop. In a game this small do you honestly think that scum has 2 people with abilities on a 2-3 person team? Why would I not just take the fall?

Lizabeth · November 3, 2016

She never explained her vote on me. She switched to sooh last minute when it was almost assured that her vote was going through like she was just trying to get on the lynching train. She was much more confident early in the game than she normally is, and that could have been skewed as knowing too much.

I'm not saying that it would have worked but I would have been more likely to try it on her. As scum how would you try to throw shade at Nyn and Cory at this point?? Even if I could find something they are able to defend themselves well enough that it would just make me look bad if I were scum to even try. BFG doesn't have that, or hasn't had that to my knowledge. I stand by my statement. I kill Nyn or Cory every time last night as scum.

She basically explained for most of the game that she did not like your easy town-read stance on Cory.

Here she explained that she didn't think you were playing to your town meta and threw in an example:

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/99552-standard-final-fantasy-vii-mafia-game-thread/?p=3722828

She was pretty consistent in being uneasy about you all the game through and there was no way in hell she was getting lynched this game with the way she played, given what I know from everyone else about her scum vs. town metas.

Every one has had her as their top town read except for maybe you. People have waffled over whether Cory or Nyn might be town, but not BFG since early D1. And she was the most likely one to be followed in voting today.

So...yeah...>.>

(love ya girl, but you so scum :D <3)

nope... not scum. And the example BFG gave was not a good one. Did you actually read that game? Hellian allowed us to KILL someone if we got the right amount of votes on them during day phase and had an awesome night power too. I was doing everything in my power not to have her die and get to use that before she was gone. Didn't work out for me. Sooh didn't have that. I would have had NO trouble bussing her early on honestly. OR if I had been scum with her I wouldn't have made a case on her at all. And let me die instead. She was role-cop. In a game this small do you honestly think that scum has 2 people with abilities on a 2-3 person team? Why would I not just take the fall?

No, I didn't read the game to be honest.

But yes, I do think that there is more than one ability on the scum team BECAUSE the team is likely to be small. I don't have a huge amount of experience with balancing games or playing games this size, but I would think the smaller the team the more offensive/defensive power they would need.

Lizabeth · November 3, 2016

And also, you didn't make your case on her until it was pretty much definite that she was going to die and not you yesterday.

Katiora · November 3, 2016

And also, you didn't make your case on her until it was pretty much definite that she was going to die and not you yesterday.

Not true. Whenever I made my case on her I had 2 votes and she had 3. shortly after my case i had 3 and she had 2. At no point and time was it DEFINITE that she was going to get lynched and I was not. Not until BFG changed her vote and time ran out.

Nynaeve · November 3, 2016

I've been flipping through Sooh's ISO in the Pirates game. Sooh was scum with Pral/Kat and Besie there. And she's a bit bolder than I expected. heh.

I think Besie was getting some attention early on from Zander (and possibly others too), so Sooh poked her quite a bit, even said she'd vote her and was overall giving her quite a bit of grief. But then sort of went 180 on the read later on and went full tunnel on Zander instead. Zander in turn was accusing Sooh a lot of shading, which resembles her interaction with Liz in this game, imo. After that she moved on to working on Believer. There was even a point where Pral was voting Besie and she was like openly arguing with him and defending her scummate... against her other scummate. Respect lol

I don't think she flat out ignored anyone, but she did have her share of nulls that included Pral/Kat. Besie it was like initially a scum read that later turned into a town read. But Besie was a goon... so that prolly factored into her willingness to go at her (Sooh was RB and Pral/Kat were GF). And thread flow consideration as well, most likely.

Lizabeth · November 3, 2016

And also, you didn't make your case on her until it was pretty much definite that she was going to die and not you yesterday.
Not true. Whenever I made my case on her I had 2 votes and she had 3. shortly after my case i had 3 and she had 2. At no point and time was it DEFINITE that she was going to get lynched and I was not. Not until BFG changed her vote and time ran out.

the case on her had been built up more over time and had more believers than the case on you at that point, though. Most of us had only started looking closely at you as likely scum towards the end of D2, whereas Cory had started sussing Sooh since D1 and there were at least 4 of us who were pretty confident about her being scum for most of D2 as well.

Katiora · November 3, 2016

Give me names of the people who thought she was scum. Who SAID "i think sooh's scum" and hadn't voted for her. 2 of the votes on her at day end were on me. regardless of where Cory voted at the end, there was a nice chunk that he was on me.

It doesn't really matter. You think i'm scum. I'm not and you are wrong and you will see. Honestly with how you are acting i don't know if you've really just convinced yourself that much or if you are scum and trying to push a mislynch. IF there are 2 scum left, and I think it's entirely possible then maybe you are simply trying to get a mislynch and if that happens and scum gets a kill tonight that's pretty much the end of the game. with only 4 left. Think on that.

Lizabeth · November 3, 2016

Okay, here are some things that I don't think track very well with you Kat and that BFG kept pointing out over and over again with regards to your read on Cory this game:

Here you say that you can never be quite sure about reading Cory:

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/99552-standard-final-fantasy-vii-mafia-game-thread/?p=3720820

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/99552-standard-final-fantasy-vii-mafia-game-thread/page-15?do=findComment&comment=3720850

Here you start suggesting you're pretty confident that you can read Cory as town:

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/99552-standard-final-fantasy-vii-mafia-game-thread/page-67?do=findComment&comment=3722275

In that post you also continue to suggest that BFG isn't an easy read.

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/99552-standard-final-fantasy-vii-mafia-game-thread/page-67?do=findComment&comment=3722275

Note that BFG is the one who keeps bringing up your easy read on Cory as the reason she doesn't quite trust you.

Not sure what you meant by this phrasing by the way - would love an explanation:

oh i forgot i multiquoted that first post. Cory. I am not a wolf. You need to start checking into someone else. Unless Clov was merciful and there's only 2 wolves (which I wouldn't bet a bent penny on)

Here you're saying you don't understand how Cory is never clearable - when early game you were basically saying that Cory is never an easy read?

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/99552-standard-final-fantasy-vii-mafia-game-thread/page-67?do=findComment&comment=3722286

This makes sense to me for early game - but after the game picks up speed, I still don't understand how you continued to maintain that BFG wasn't clearable but Cory was based on her play this game:

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/99552-standard-final-fantasy-vii-mafia-game-thread/page-13?do=findComment&comment=3720787

And keeping in mind that Sooh, the mafia role cop, was alive N1...

Lizabeth · November 3, 2016

Give me names of the people who thought she was scum. Who SAID "i think sooh's scum" and hadn't voted for her. 2 of the votes on her at day end were on me. regardless of where Cory voted at the end, there was a nice chunk that he was on me.

It doesn't really matter. You think i'm scum. I'm not and you are wrong and you will see. Honestly with how you are acting i don't know if you've really just convinced yourself that much or if you are scum and trying to push a mislynch. IF there are 2 scum left, and I think it's entirely possible then maybe you are simply trying to get a mislynch and if that happens and scum gets a kill tonight that's pretty much the end of the game. with only 4 left. Think on that.

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make here. The point is that BFG, Cory, Me, Nyn all thought that Sooh was scum. BFG had already made her case on Sooh before voting you so that she could maintain a counterwagon.

As for the attempt to throw suspicion my way - you brought up the issue of sacrificing the role cop yourself - so by your own logic, why would I PUSH a lynch on my roled team mate at the start of D2 when there was a good chance she could slide back under the radar? Why wouldn't I try to get you mislynched instead as people were starting to pile up suspicion and votes on you?

Busing a teammate after the writing is already on the wall is one thing. Busing a team mate at the start of D2 and making sure the lynch carries through at the end of day is just bad strategy.

Katiora · November 3, 2016

I don't think I ever said she wasn't clearable. I did tinfoil on her a bit because she gave me reason to with her "Kat is town" which seemed a little bit TMI to me. I said that I didn't think that she should be cleared D1 as she's proficient at faking her town game that early. She is quite clearable as the game progresses however. She can't usually keep up her stamina with the game as it goes on when she is scum. After yesterday I was fairly sure she was town, and would have been almost positive if she had kept up today.

With Cory what I meant was that I wouldn't push my Town read on him on anyone. He is always town to me. My last few town games I have had I had a horrible time with tinfoiling and I learned something important. Sometimes you just have to trust your reads and let it go. The more cory was pushed and pushed the surer I became until it didn't matter anyway and any thought otherwise was counter productive. That doesn't mean that I can't be wrong, or if something happens and I see it I won't adjust but until something new happens and I have a reason to think otherwise I can't tinfoil every town read I have.

Zander? · November 3, 2016

Vote Count!

Katiora - 2 - Lizabeth, Nynaeve

Day Three ends at 12:30 Eastern on Friday, 11/4.

Lizabeth · November 4, 2016

@Csarmi @Pral - where are you going to take your stands?

[Standard] Final Fantasy VII Mafia - Mafia Wins D4

Recommended Posts

Archived

Stay Connected

Forum Topics

News items

About Dragonmount

Twitter

Facebook