Tarmon Gaidon [Advanced Mafia] Game Over

[Tiinker]

 

/m173 Tiink points out that, considering Kat articulated none of this thought process when events were actually happening, there's a good chance she crafted it after the fact to fit the narrative ~~I didn't totally agree with this in my head but:

And this, I don't totally agree with Tiink's thinking because while the initial questions had been out there a while, the conversation was happening in RT and I don't think she could have really prepped herself for exactly where all it was going to head. He felt the whole thing was too logical but if the story is straight that should be a good thing, no?

 

At any rate it bugged me about Tiink when he said it but I think overall his play in QT was positive.

 

It was happening in RT but I those thoughts existed throughout D2. It's not genius to read something and write it in your own words on the fly. If she hadn't really been considering it during the actual Day and only started considering it during the night then I can see her explaining herself that way.

[Tiinker]

 

Right so you're joking and this doesn't have anything to do with this game in particular. Got you. In any case I just skimmed Dice's posts and nothing stands out as him targeting anyone except for a weird vote on Pral so I think that it's likely that one of the consensus town reads is just wrong. This hilariously gives Darthe some equity imo because of what he said in the QT and I don't think Pral would want to kill Dice after bringing up the fact that Dice's vote on him was weird as he did in the QT.

 

My ability to forget things I've read 30 seconds ago is amazing.

 

But can you point to what specifically you were thinking about here?

 

"Im not in a gpod pace to really cast suspicions with any authority, but knowing my alignment and that of believer I feel fairly confident that in some level town is being duped here. It could be one big player, it could be two. I dont mean to fearmonger by this, simply to recognize that I doubt the town has this game on lock from where I stand."

 

 

That post and the post before it. He was the one that stated that we need to go back and reevaluate town consensus players and I reached that conclusion too albeit from a different train of thought. My thought is that one of them should have been NK'd last night if we'd been as accurate. Why would they leave us alive?? 

[Tiinker]

We aren't allowed to link or screen shot. I take it for granted that means I'm not allowed to copy and paste either.

 

I mean I guess I could secretly alter the text but considering people can vouch for it it's effectively a round-about way of breaking the rules.

 

At any rate after looking at the rules now it doesn't seem as explicit as I thought, but I also suck at reading in general and it seems to at least be hedging on unacceptable.

I asked BFG earlier and she said I could copy and paste a post.

[Tiinker]

I think the fact that I'm getting sussed is absolutely hilariously considering you guys wouldn't even know what was happening today if I hadn't spent like time at the start of day telling you to freaking read the actual words in BFG's post and actually spent some meaningful time to get town on the right page. I'm not sure if it's a scum move to do that because I feel like scum would know I'd come after them for making that point or just an inattentive town but it sure does annoy me.

 

Lynching Kat today no matter what but, for me anyway, I think that someone producing an actual case on me might be a good start as to find out who of the big town players is actually scum. 

 

I'm all ears.

[BFG]

To clarify, you can copy and paste your own posts, you can't copy and paste somebody elses

[Tiinker]

So anyway I could find zero games in which Kat and Snow played together except Beyond the Wall, and in that game she does not comment on him. She quotes him for a joke at some point, no further mention.

 

sooooooooo

 

Kat

 

Can you explain to me how you always disagree with Snow and think he's scum when the two of you play together?

 

Is this some sort of off-site thing or :???:

 

Lmao

[Tiinker]

To clarify, you can copy and paste your own posts, you can't copy and paste somebody elses

 

Crap, sorry.

[BFG]

D3 Votecount

 

 

Kat (2): Darthe, Tiinker

 

Shad (1): Zass

 

 

Not Voting (6): Hallia, Ironeyes, Kat, Pral, Shad_, WiFi

 

[BFG]

 

To clarify, you can copy and paste your own posts, you can't copy and paste somebody elses

Crap, sorry.

I'll assume it was miscommunication, please don't do it again though :)

[Pralaya]

Oh great, the Dice kill was quite helpful. Not that he was in danger any lynch.

 

He HAD to play for town, atleast in the initial part of the game. Because he only wins if he is in F5. I believe if wolf won before F5, he would lose. So, he had no problems killing wolf till the time he reached F5. 

[Pralaya]

I was frustrated in the QT because the Believer kill happened quite similar to the Dice kill in the BM game (not as worse but the same feeling). There was no way Believer was scum based on what happened D1.  He was on 1 vote (by Dice) when I went to sleep and lynched by the time the day ended. All the votes on him happened in the last hour and it was a heist.

 

Which is why I think there is scum definitely in :

 

Believer (5): Darthe, Kat, Zass, Dice, WiFi 

 

Zander unvoted but I guess was too close to deadline or BFG missed it. Dice was 3rd party. That leaves kat/darthe/wifi.

 

Wifi's late vote was bad but then she was talking about Believer as scum from the start of the day. It is not like she changed her stance suddenly.

 

It would leave Kat/Darthe as the likely suspect and I was sure this was pretty much the case even on D2. Should have resolved it on D2 itself !

[Darthe]

That reads as super opportunistic.

 

Cass, I liked zanders response, its the sort of thing I figured on. Interesting to see you keep taking step back, I think thats good strategy on your part.

[Darthe]

First line of my post was to laya. The last line of his post is cringe

[Pralaya]

I went through the whole game and reread everything again. (I ignored Zander and it was so much better, lol). 

 

Adding my points on who cannot be wolf:

 

Ironeyes - The vig shot was legit and non-countered.  And now we know that Dice was 3rd party. This pretty much clears him.

Zander - Has been quite active and his thoughts match with mine. He is quite verbose about it though. DOn't see him scumming here.

Hallia - Pretty much the below read list she gave on D1 shows that she is not wolf

 

Zand/Cass - Obv Town

Kat - I feel that vibe from her.  She's here, she's present, she's in a great mood

Dice - Tone is villagery af

 

 

Shad - He's improved a lot, I was having trouble earlier but he's got his head in the game

Tiinker - I feel like he's towny, seems different from his scum games

Nolder - Townish lean to me - This is different for me, as I recall scum reading him a lot back in the day.  I feel like he's being open and honest

Ironeyes - I'm on the cusp of town here.  I like his level of involvement.  He's my lowest town lean.

 

Bee - On the fence about - Want to give him more time though

Darthe - Felt more confident initially, that is fading into doubt, though.

Wifi - I feel like I always scum read - Others are town reading, so will give time.

 

JS - Still suspicious of, but as people say, he's got his head in the game right now.  May unvote, but I still think wolfy.

Pral - Did not like his read list, or level of involvement

Hellian - I don't know if it's because he's new.  I find it odd also the people that are normally all about d1 passes for new people aren't doing it here.  It says more about them than it does Hellian to me.

 

She has both Hellian and JS in the scum list. If she is busing here, she could have easily bused JS instead of Hellian and voted him. She was already suspecting JS and had already voted him earlier, so it would be a good continuity. And, busing a weaker role than the stronger Hellian. But, she stuck on the Hellian push and actually cleared others from giving him a newbie pass. If Hallia is scum, she played real smart here (I don't see how she is, though). 

[BFG]

D3 Votecount

 

 

Kat (2): Darthe, Tiinker

 

Shad (1): Zass

 

 

Not Voting (6): Hallia, Ironeyes, Kat, Pral, Shad_, WiFi

 

[Pralaya]

That reads as super opportunistic.

 

Cass, I liked zanders response, its the sort of thing I figured on. Interesting to see you keep taking step back, I think thats good strategy on your part.

 

 

Opportunistic, really? It is just what should have happened D2. 

 

It was pretty much leading to it till the last hour of the lynch.

[Pralaya]

Darthe sounds pretty much how he was in BM when he was called out scum. OMGUSing, throwing suspicion on others etc.

 

IMO, he was even trying to nudge Hallia as scum in the QT. 

[Shad_]

Crossed my mind to pull up Myndjack on archive.org this morning when I realized the link on Google is to old proboards and the real forum is no longer online. Had no clue what a huge Mafia site it used to be. So yeah, I stand corrected on any assumption that people didn't play together if they were around before that shut down.

 

Still pretty ancient meta to apply vs not recognizing Pral is low-to-no D1 when you've played with him a few times recently, but I'd give you the benefit of the doubt and say you weren't just making things up.

[Pralaya]

 

I went through the whole game and reread everything again. (I ignored Zander and it was so much better, lol). 

 

Adding my points on who cannot be wolf:

 

Ironeyes - The vig shot was legit and non-countered.  And now we know that Dice was 3rd party. This pretty much clears him.

Zander - Has been quite active and his thoughts match with mine. He is quite verbose about it though. DOn't see him scumming here.

Hallia - Pretty much the below read list she gave on D1 shows that she is not wolf

 

 

 

Zand/Cass - Obv Town

Kat - I feel that vibe from her.  She's here, she's present, she's in a great mood

Dice - Tone is villagery af

 

 

Shad - He's improved a lot, I was having trouble earlier but he's got his head in the game

Tiinker - I feel like he's towny, seems different from his scum games

Nolder - Townish lean to me - This is different for me, as I recall scum reading him a lot back in the day.  I feel like he's being open and honest

Ironeyes - I'm on the cusp of town here.  I like his level of involvement.  He's my lowest town lean.

 

Bee - On the fence about - Want to give him more time though

Darthe - Felt more confident initially, that is fading into doubt, though.

Wifi - I feel like I always scum read - Others are town reading, so will give time.

 

JS - Still suspicious of, but as people say, he's got his head in the game right now.  May unvote, but I still think wolfy.

Pral - Did not like his read list, or level of involvement

Hellian - I don't know if it's because he's new.  I find it odd also the people that are normally all about d1 passes for new people aren't doing it here.  It says more about them than it does Hellian to me.

 

She has both Hellian and JS in the scum list. If she is busing here, she could have easily bused JS instead of Hellian and voted him. She was already suspecting JS and had already voted him earlier, so it would be a good continuity. And, busing a weaker role than the stronger Hellian. But, she stuck on the Hellian push and actually cleared others from giving him a newbie pass. If Hallia is scum, she played real smart here (I don't see how she is, though).

 

 

 

Anyway, to add on to this

 

Shad - Initially I had reservations regarding him. I didn't like some of his posts. But, his effort in the QT and at the start if D3 makes me think he is town. I have seen him in games where he was wolf and his scummates got caught early in the game. It was in the game I modded - World's End. He had pretty much given up and had no enthusiasm to continue. In this game, he is completely different. He is pushing forward and that is good to see

Tiink - Very slim chance he is mafia. He did vote Believer when Hellian/JS were the trains. But, seems to be coming from a town perspective. His vote on Darthe start of D2 shows he cannot be w/w with Darthe (don't see him busing at that point of the game). Feel better about him on his posts and his vote on D2.

[Pralaya]

That leaves kat/darthe/wifi.

 

I would say the scum is in this group. Don't see any other possibility.

[Ironeyes]

I was frustrated in the QT because the Believer kill happened quite similar to the Dice kill in the BM game (not as worse but the same feeling). There was no way Believer was scum based on what happened D1.  He was on 1 vote (by Dice) when I went to sleep and lynched by the time the day ended. All the votes on him happened in the last hour and it was a heist.

 

Which is why I think there is scum definitely in :

 

Believer (5): Darthe, Kat, Zass, Dice, WiFi 

 

Zander unvoted but I guess was too close to deadline or BFG missed it. Dice was 3rd party. That leaves kat/darthe/wifi.

 

Wifi's late vote was bad but then she was talking about Believer as scum from the start of the day. It is not like she changed her stance suddenly.

 

It would leave Kat/Darthe as the likely suspect and I was sure this was pretty much the case even on D2. Should have resolved it on D2 itself !

This makes a lot of sense. 

[Pralaya]

 

/m170 she says that at the time (EoD1) she thought Believer might have been pushing Snow to take the pressure off Hellian (~~doesn't totally add up since he pushed Snow before there was any pressure on Hellian, but he did continue to push Snow at EoD~~) Says that D2 she was so bogged down arguing with Zander that she didn't have time to reevaluate. But then adds that since Snow died N1 she wouldn't have been able to evaluate further Believer/Snow interaction anyway (~~so apparently the unlikelihood of w/w/w didn't phase her at all?~~) Adds that while she made her comment on Snow he wasn't super high on her suspect list and she hates D1 and she thought Believer's choice to avoid interactions with other players was really scummy (~~I would say he interacted a lot, he just only ever took one hard stance.~~) Says irt my question about Pral's activity level that she's not the sort to ISO other games but she remembers him being more active, says towns should be trying to solve rather than just fly under the radar

Red is inaccurate.  She suggested it was something she'd thought in the past and I took it for granted in paraphrasing that she meant EoD1.  Could have meant N1.  Noticed this because if she'd specified EoD1 she'd be blatantly contradicting herself.

 

I didn't understand it at the time - thank God it was not just me. believe what she was trying to say is that she thought Believer was scum because she thought on D2 that he was busing JS to prevent a Hellian lynch. Which doesn't make a lot of sense because Believer town train was right there instead of JS.

 

And, no, I am not busing Kat. Really?

[Darthe]

So remind me, how many wolves do we have left wifi?

[Darthe]

Dadv

[Pralaya]

???????