Beyond the Wall - Game Thread - GAME OVER

[Shad_]

The TMI comment was about the multiple mafia teams angle, not recruiting. It wasn't even that you suggested it but rather that you suggest it, then ask him to show if he's a villager. If there are more than one mafia teams I propose there is no town due to balance. You brought it up twice. Then you propose that you and Dice could be mafia. Which to me suggests another team. Why? Because being on Anne team as mafia doesn't make any sense with how you're going at each other.

Red, no kidding.  Lenlo said he thought Dice and I were both not town and he thought Dice's peek on me was real.  That suggests that Dice and I are not town but not aligned.  That suggests multiball.  Lenlo introduced this, twice.  You commented on my response to both instances and called both of them TMI on my part.  That is :??????:

 

And I sincerely do not believe that anyone who has played extensively with Dice can feel comfortable about him right now.

[Shad_]

Wife aggro is getting intense.  I really do have to leave and I won't be on until post-deadline guaranteed.

 

Don't be dumb.  Lynch Dice.  gl village

[Shad_]

You wanna talk obscure roles we never see, there's one. Never heard of it

 

No kidding.  /shrug  But it's what I got.

[Kaylee]

1) A lot of people have used the "I was wrong on AJ so" line up to this point as a reason against me. I am not AJ, and when I pointed out that AJ was >> rand playing his Survivor role with the intent to win with Town no one questioned me. Altering a read on someone requires a read-based reason.

 

2) That's fine. I am now asking you for specific quotes. Look at what Lenlo said and what I responded with and explain what you feel I did that was wolfy/he did that was villagery specifically.

 

3) If you had made that post without the bit about me looking terrible in my exchange with Lenlo last night, I would have still been irritated by it but I don't know that it would have pinged me. Lenlo has started to really concern me this phase, and it got substantially worse last night, and I went into extensive detail as to why and woke up to see a generic "Shad looked bad there" from you and random nitpicking from Kaylee. This is an awful approach if either of you are villagers. I want you to go back and do the work irt my conversation with him yesterday and show me your actual thought process on it.

 

Villages who trust every claim lose. Dice looks "TERRIBLE" because he's openly wolfing, and no one is really denying this, but he claimed something so .......

 

Wolves fake claim to get out of lynches or take a villager down with them all the time. This is why reads matter.

First off I'm not just believing every claim that comes along. I said why I changed my mind on you and him. I also still doubt Dice being a villager. I am less sure of you as well. My highest town read atm is SiRReN, then Leno, then Punished. Punished because he has made good points and seems to be trying to really figure things out.

[Lenlo]

Dude I never suggested multiball, don't you dare lie about that.

 

I said 3rd party, like AJ.

[Kaylee]

 

Ugh, I have a headache and it's not getting any better with all this. I'm still working on the re-read but honestly, it's kind of irrelevant for this day phase because today has been narrowed down to Dice vs. Shad and who takes what side. Kind of hating that fact right now because of two things.

 

1) I firmly doubt Dice is town. In my experience, if I don't know he's town by the end of D1, he's not town. I strongly suspect he's third party here, best case scenario.

 

2) That doesn't mean he's lying about Shad being mafia. Shad had a great D1, but he's completely capable of fooling pretty much every single person here as mafia.

 

I find it really interesting how long it's taken for everyone but Dice and Shad to take a side here, to be honest. This is a Darthe game, which means strange things are indeed afoot at the Circle K. This man is responsible for a GoT game in which Jaime Lannister was town, I do not trust that a Bran claim is automatically a good guy.

 

As for this:

 

 

 

Dice was being speed lynched and was at or very near L1 when he claimed.

 

Dice had 3 quick votes on him within half an hour, out of 7 votes required. He hinted after the first vote that he was going to drop a bomb on us, then took all of an hour to fully claim, the only thing he didn't reveal right away was his mason partner. He hasn't even been close to L1. Mischaracterizing his claim as a desperation move to get out of a lynch doesn't look particularly good here.

 

Right now I'm thinking neither of them is town.

That's where I'm at with them.

[Kaylee]

 

Ugh, I have a headache and it's not getting any better with all this. I'm still working on the re-read but honestly, it's kind of irrelevant for this day phase because today has been narrowed down to Dice vs. Shad and who takes what side. Kind of hating that fact right now because of two things.

 

1) I firmly doubt Dice is town. In my experience, if I don't know he's town by the end of D1, he's not town. I strongly suspect he's third party here, best case scenario.

 

2) That doesn't mean he's lying about Shad being mafia. Shad had a great D1, but he's completely capable of fooling pretty much every single person here as mafia.

 

I find it really interesting how long it's taken for everyone but Dice and Shad to take a side here, to be honest. This is a Darthe game, which means strange things are indeed afoot at the Circle K. This man is responsible for a GoT game in which Jaime Lannister was town, I do not trust that a Bran claim is automatically a good guy.

 

As for this:

 

 

 

Dice was being speed lynched and was at or very near L1 when he claimed.

 

Dice had 3 quick votes on him within half an hour, out of 7 votes required. He hinted after the first vote that he was going to drop a bomb on us, then took all of an hour to fully claim, the only thing he didn't reveal right away was his mason partner. He hasn't even been close to L1. Mischaracterizing his claim as a desperation move to get out of a lynch doesn't look particularly good here.

 

Right now I'm thinking neither of them is town.

That's where I'm at with them.

[Kaylee]

I have to start my day and won't be available until after deadline. Feeling hesitant when someone makes a strong claim is reasonable. Lynching the guy who's been really villagery over the person who everyone agrees has been pretty much openly wolfing is not.

 

For what it's worth, I'm an Avoider. Each night I can target a player and if they perform an action on me it will have no effect. I targeted Celeste N1 because her and Zander both like to get rid of me early when they wolf and Z has a lot of sway in mafia QTs. Good luck with the 'goon' result claim.

You chastise people for just believing every claim then make one yourself. You may be telling the truth.

 

As far as you being really villager I disagree.

[Kaylee]

I have to start my day and won't be available until after deadline. Feeling hesitant when someone makes a strong claim is reasonable. Lynching the guy who's been really villagery over the person who everyone agrees has been pretty much openly wolfing is not.

 

For what it's worth, I'm an Avoider. Each night I can target a player and if they perform an action on me it will have no effect. I targeted Celeste N1 because her and Zander both like to get rid of me early when they wolf and Z has a lot of sway in mafia QTs. Good luck with the 'goon' result claim.

As far as you being very villager I disagree. Plus you just made a claim after chastising everyone for just believing every claim that comes.

[SiRReN]

 

 

Didn't get defensive of Leno, but rather think he came out better.

 

And how many people? Lol You mean myself, Sirren and was there sometime else?

Sirren says I'm unreasonable and very aggressive out of the blue. Quotes nothing. Comments on nothing. Doesn't address my points.

 

You quote posts I made responding to Lenlo suggesting that Dice and I are both non-town and scum!Dice really did peek me a wolf and spin it as TMI on my part rather than on Lenlo's. You say I'm reaching out of nowhere because I wondered if this game would be crazy enough for recruitment, instead of actually forming an opinion on any of my actual criticism of Lenlo.

 

Basically both of you approach a challenge at Lenlo with either a generic "no Lenlo's town Shad must be scum after all" answer or by picking a few random lines out of context while completely ignoring the actual content of the discussion.

 

Both of these approaches come off on the surface as defensive of Lenlo, or a wishywash excuse to back down from a strong town read on me without having to justify it, or both. Neither of them make much sense from a villager POV.

 

It's fascinating because quite a few people started looking wolfy when 1) an opportunity to mislynch the most consensus villager entered the picture and 2) Lenlo's alignment came under question.

The TMI comment was about the multiple mafia teams angle, not recruiting. It wasn't even that you suggested it but rather that you suggest it, then ask him to show if he's a villager. If there are more than one mafia teams I propose there is no town due to balance. You brought it up twice. Then you propose that you and Dice could be mafia. Which to me suggests another team. Why? Because being on Anne team as mafia doesn't make any sense with how you're going at each other.

 

As far as what SiRReN said about you I think she's right. Your tone is different in dealing with Len than it is with Dice.

 

And I did justify why I switched. It wasn't just that you had possible TMI, but that I am now leaning towards believing Dice's mason claim.

 

 

The multiple mafia teams is something I don't understand, why should there be multiple mafia teams rather than just one? Only one person has flipped mafia so far, and I don't think both Shad and Dice are scum. At this point I think one of them was scum with Sili, and we'll see if my belief in Dice's peek is warranted after the flip.

 

I can post quotes later to respond to you Shad (I'm at work right now), but literally anyone can go read the recent exchanges between Dice/Shad and Shad/Lenlo. It wasn't anything in particular, but rather the context of those entire conversations. Your tone is reasonable and questioning when you talk to Dice, but with Lenlo you were condescending and accusing him of being scum for suspecting you. 

[Kaylee]

 

The TMI comment was about the multiple mafia teams angle, not recruiting. It wasn't even that you suggested it but rather that you suggest it, then ask him to show if he's a villager. If there are more than one mafia teams I propose there is no town due to balance. You brought it up twice. Then you propose that you and Dice could be mafia. Which to me suggests another team. Why? Because being on Anne team as mafia doesn't make any sense with how you're going at each other.

Red, no kidding. Lenlo said he thought Dice and I were both not town and he thought Dice's peek on me was real. That suggests that Dice and I are not town but not aligned. That suggests multiball. Lenlo introduced this, twice. You commented on my response to both instances and called both of them TMI on my part. That is :??????:

 

And I sincerely do not believe that anyone who has played extensively with Dice can feel comfortable about him right now.

Never said I thought Dice was town. I thought you brought up mulitball. Even if Len brought it up you seemed to be challenging him to consider you and Dice as wolf. If you both were then yes that implies separate teams.

[Kaylee]

 

 

 

Didn't get defensive of Leno, but rather think he came out better.

 

And how many people? Lol You mean myself, Sirren and was there sometime else?

Sirren says I'm unreasonable and very aggressive out of the blue. Quotes nothing. Comments on nothing. Doesn't address my points.

 

You quote posts I made responding to Lenlo suggesting that Dice and I are both non-town and scum!Dice really did peek me a wolf and spin it as TMI on my part rather than on Lenlo's. You say I'm reaching out of nowhere because I wondered if this game would be crazy enough for recruitment, instead of actually forming an opinion on any of my actual criticism of Lenlo.

 

Basically both of you approach a challenge at Lenlo with either a generic "no Lenlo's town Shad must be scum after all" answer or by picking a few random lines out of context while completely ignoring the actual content of the discussion.

 

Both of these approaches come off on the surface as defensive of Lenlo, or a wishywash excuse to back down from a strong town read on me without having to justify it, or both. Neither of them make much sense from a villager POV.

 

It's fascinating because quite a few people started looking wolfy when 1) an opportunity to mislynch the most consensus villager entered the picture and 2) Lenlo's alignment came under question.

The TMI comment was about the multiple mafia teams angle, not recruiting. It wasn't even that you suggested it but rather that you suggest it, then ask him to show if he's a villager. If there are more than one mafia teams I propose there is no town due to balance. You brought it up twice. Then you propose that you and Dice could be mafia. Which to me suggests another team. Why? Because being on Anne team as mafia doesn't make any sense with how you're going at each other.

 

As far as what SiRReN said about you I think she's right. Your tone is different in dealing with Len than it is with Dice.

 

And I did justify why I switched. It wasn't just that you had possible TMI, but that I am now leaning towards believing Dice's mason claim.

The multiple mafia teams is something I don't understand, why should there be multiple mafia teams rather than just one? Only one person has flipped mafia so far, and I don't think both Shad and Dice are scum. At this point I think one of them was scum with Sili, and we'll see if my belief in Dice's peek is warranted after the flip.

 

I can post quotes later to respond to you Shad (I'm at work right now), but literally anyone can go read the recent exchanges between Dice/Shad and Shad/Lenlo. It wasn't anything in particular, but rather the context of those entire conversations. Your tone is reasonable and questioning when you talk to Dice, but with Lenlo you were condescending and accusing him of being scum for suspecting you.

That was my point about the multiple teams, which is why I called it TMI. We have only seen one team, so the sudden idea for one seamed out of nowhere. Plus he's now claiming Len said it first and I really don't like the "don't be dumb" bullying comment.

[Punished Balrog]

For what it's worth, I'm an Avoider.  Each night I can target a player and if they perform an action on me it will have no effect.  I targeted Celeste N1 because her and Zander both like to get rid of me early when they wolf and Z has a lot of sway in mafia QTs.  Good luck with the 'goon' result claim.

I don't like this claim. It feels... fake?

Maybe I could see it in one of the BYOR games we play on VS where everything is crazy and made from scratch (even then, it wouldn't be their only power) but all the roles flipped this game have been known roles from the game.

What use is a role that can only block one player who has to be using a power on you? Like a self doc but only if you pick the mafia using the hit? Or you could block investigations but that wouldn't be good for a town player. You could block a Doc Protect I guess???

 

Does anyone else think this claim stinks?

[Punished Balrog]

Would Darthe throw in something like this??

[Wildfire Sedai]

what is wplf?

[SiRReN]

Claim definitely feels funky to me. Like you said, so far people have flipped actual mafia roles like Jester, Mason, Survivor, and Mafia.

[Lenlo]

Wplf is wolf, but I fat fingered it

[Hallia]

Sorry you feel that way, Kaylee?

[Kaylee]

 

For what it's worth, I'm an Avoider. Each night I can target a player and if they perform an action on me it will have no effect. I targeted Celeste N1 because her and Zander both like to get rid of me early when they wolf and Z has a lot of sway in mafia QTs. Good luck with the 'goon' result claim.

I don't like this claim. It feels... fake?

Maybe I could see it in one of the BYOR games we play on VS where everything is crazy and made from scratch (even then, it wouldn't be their only power) but all the roles flipped this game have been known roles from the game.

What use is a role that can only block one player who has to be using a power on you? Like a self doc but only if you pick the mafia using the hit? Or you could block investigations but that wouldn't be good for a town player. You could block a Doc Protect I guess???

 

Does anyone else think this claim stinks?

Yes and I've said as much. That's why my vote is staying.

[Kaylee]

Sorry you feel that way, Kaylee?

You're a decent player and that vote was extremely weak reasoning wise.

[Hallia]

Well, it's pretty cut and dry isn't it?  

 

We had a viewing.  I don't see Dice fake viewing.  Shad's reasoning behind it that he shouldn't have been peeked because he was on his villa game is the same logic Clov JUST tried using.  

 

Plus with Jon voting Dice, I am even less inclined to vote Dice.  And it's between them today, unless you think otherwise?

[Kaylee]

Well, it's pretty cut and dry isn't it?

 

We had a viewing. I don't see Dice fake viewing. Shad's reasoning behind it that he shouldn't have been peeked because he was on his villa game is the same logic Clov JUST tried using.

 

Plus with Jon voting Dice, I am even less inclined to vote Dice. And it's between them today, unless you think otherwise?

Much better explanation Hally. I can now put together your thoughts. So you trust he's telling the truth about his viewing even though his claim made you feel sketchy. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Hallia]

Yep, pretty much.

[Kaylee]

That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[Wildfire Sedai]

I finally got caught up...I stayed up late last night to see what would go on here while I was asleep but other than lenlo and shad going at it....not much...so this morning when I had time to get caught up....I fell asleep in front of the computer....  I need my sleep....

 

anyway:

 

1. I am not one for bickering and that's all that it seems like what is happening....bickering over semantics...."I didn't say z was town..", "Your twisting my words", etc.  

 

2. Yes I made a mistake with Celeste by unvoting her yet she died in the end anyway...however I believe Dice now.....why you say:

• because last game he did same exact thing except he was doc town:  hinted that he had a PR then waited till the very end to claim and he was telling the truth.

3. Yes shad is in my town group but again I had people in my town grouping last game and they were wolves....

• I don't understand all the techie stuff that he is talking about.

 

Therefore: [v] shad [/v]