Outrigger Series (Mat & Tuon Conquering the Seanchan!)

[Guest JoeLinYang]

Has anyone asked if Harriet will entrust Brandon Sanderson with writing the books for this epic series? This is probably the only thing that still leaves me grasping at air. Its one of those things in life that I'd like to read before I die. 

 

If not I'd love if someone could someday pose this to her. Just as I was relieved and eternally grateful that The Wheel of Time was finished the right way and with love. I would like to see Mat's story through however many books as it takes, enough to do it justice, and I trust Brandon to do it right.

 

My background is, I read the series front to back 7 times. I'll probably re-read it again this year, it only gets better with each reading! So I hope that one day I'll be able to read about Mat and Tuon!

[szilard]

shills these days ...

[threadnecromancer]

I've always been far more interested in finishing the prequel trilogy.

 

 

I want to see Tam as a youngish man, and how he killed Kari and could never trust a woman again.

 

Regardless, we won't be seeing any of them, there are not sufficient notes.

[Basel Gill]

If there are ever any further books (and I said if), I think Brandon will bow out and leave it to another author. The Cosmere has turned into an enormous, sprawling project. Then there's his work outside of the Cosmere. I don't see him being able to find time to write more WoT novels.

 

He may still give us short fiction within the WoT world, however.

[Sabio]

99.99% sure this will never happen.  The big isssue was RJ left only about one paragraph completed.  So if someone were to write this it would have to come up with everything on their own.  Which means it may end up something totally different then what RJ would of wanted.  Sure BS enjoyed finishing the Wheel of Time, but I'm pretty sure he would like to continue with his own work now instead of  doing more and more with a series someone else came up with.  The other alternative which the fans and Harriet would hate, would  be open the series up like Star Wars and Forgotten Realms did so any author could start making stories for the Wheel of Time.  Maybe you might get a short story or two, like BS did with the river of Souls to raise money for someone with health issues.  But my guess is any prequel or outrigger is never going to happen.

[Orderofolde]

I've always been far more interested in finishing the prequel trilogy.

 

 

I want to see Tam as a youngish man, and how he killed Kari and could never trust a woman again.

 

Regardless, we won't be seeing any of them, there are not sufficient notes.

How he killed Kari?  Where ever did you get that?  Reading between the lines we know Tam was Second Captain of the Companions of Illian, faced Laman and likely the other two uncles and slew the three of them which Moiraine was informed had died in New Spring.  We know he met Kari and brought her back to Emonds Field and put away the heron-marked blade likely taken from Laman or one of his ilk allowing the Aiel to carry away the gaudy and impractical to wield ivory and jewel encrusted ceremonial blade as proof of his death.  We know he regretted killing a man that needed killing, and we know that he found and raised Rand with Kari, then already his wife as we see in his fever ramblings that he presents Rand as a babe to her and they had already talked about children and had no others, probably not from a lack of trying.

 

The only hint that we have that Kari might have been a dark friend are from the visions of her that Rand has which were fed to him by the equivalent of the devil, called the father of lies for a reason.  Perhaps the shadow had some prophecy that they needed to send a female darkfriend to marry someone that defeated a king to end a war but that's pretty far fetched.  It was Tam's love and devotion to Kari that made him resist the efforts of the other village women to marry him off, women who lauded his length of mourning her "as it would bode well for his next wife" I believe the quote was when Rand was thinking on the subject.  Did I miss something?

[Basel Gill]

How he killed Kari?  Where ever did you get that?  Reading between the lines we know Tam was Second Captain of the Companions of Illian, faced Laman and likely the other two uncles and slew the three of them which Moiraine was informed had died in New Spring.  We know he met Kari and brought her back to Emonds Field and put away the heron-marked blade likely taken from Laman or one of his ilk allowing the Aiel to carry away the gaudy and impractical to wield ivory and jewel encrusted ceremonial blade as proof of his death.  We know he regretted killing a man that needed killing, and we know that he found and raised Rand with Kari, then already his wife as we see in his fever ramblings that he presents Rand as a babe to her and they had already talked about children and had no others, probably not from a lack of trying.

 

The only hint that we have that Kari might have been a dark friend are from the visions of her that Rand has which were fed to him by the equivalent of the devil, called the father of lies for a reason.  Perhaps the shadow had some prophecy that they needed to send a female darkfriend to marry someone that defeated a king to end a war but that's pretty far fetched.  It was Tam's love and devotion to Kari that made him resist the efforts of the other village women to marry him off, women who lauded his length of mourning her "as it would bode well for his next wife" I believe the quote was when Rand was thinking on the subject.  Did I miss something?

And where are you getting that Tam was the one to kill Laman? It was called the Aiel War for a reason. The war was the Aiel against everyone else. It was the Aiel that killed Laman; they were the ones who set out to execute him as punishment for cutting down the tree.

[Sabio]

We know it wasn't  taken from Laman since the Aiel had that sword and Tam wouldn't  of been fighting Laman forces. From my understanding a heron marked blade is given to those who earned the title blademaster.

 

Yes, Tam didn't kill Kari.  Not sure where you got that idea from, and not being able to trust  women? Kari was his true love and he simply didn't feel that way about anyone else.  My guess is she wasn't  a df,  but like she said the closer the DO is to being freed the more power  he has to tempt souls. 

[Orderofolde]

 

How he killed Kari?  Where ever did you get that?  Reading between the lines we know Tam was Second Captain of the Companions of Illian, faced Laman and likely the other two uncles and slew the three of them which Moiraine was informed had died in New Spring.  We know he met Kari and brought her back to Emonds Field and put away the heron-marked blade likely taken from Laman or one of his ilk allowing the Aiel to carry away the gaudy and impractical to wield ivory and jewel encrusted ceremonial blade as proof of his death.  We know he regretted killing a man that needed killing, and we know that he found and raised Rand with Kari, then already his wife as we see in his fever ramblings that he presents Rand as a babe to her and they had already talked about children and had no others, probably not from a lack of trying.

 

The only hint that we have that Kari might have been a dark friend are from the visions of her that Rand has which were fed to him by the equivalent of the devil, called the father of lies for a reason.  Perhaps the shadow had some prophecy that they needed to send a female darkfriend to marry someone that defeated a king to end a war but that's pretty far fetched.  It was Tam's love and devotion to Kari that made him resist the efforts of the other village women to marry him off, women who lauded his length of mourning her "as it would bode well for his next wife" I believe the quote was when Rand was thinking on the subject.  Did I miss something?

And where are you getting that Tam was the one to kill Laman? It was called the Aiel War for a reason. The war was the Aiel against everyone else. It was the Aiel that killed Laman; they were the ones who set out to execute him as punishment for cutting down the tree.

 

Tam killed a man to get the heron blade, and admits that it was a man that needed killing.  This was presented by RJ much in the same way that we know it was Thom who killed the King of Cairhien, hints and reflections but not outright saying it.  Most likely Tam killed Laman because it was needed to end the war without more bloodshed.  Not an easy decision, which troubled him into taking a walk away from the army's camp/battlefield near Dragonmount where he found Rand.  At least that is what I came away from the books with.  As to the sword the Aiel took away, we have Rand's POV that the ivory hilt and the jeweled nature of that blade made it impractical to ever use, which is why he had the boar skin hilt and scabbard made for the power-wrought blade itself.  It was a ceremonial blade that all would recognize or at least believe was owned by the King of Carhien who had been made beyond wealthy by the silk trade across the waste.  One could reason that much like Galad inherited Valda's heron-marked blade upon besting him, Tam inherited Laman's blade he used in combat and let the Aiel take the ceremonial one as it ended the conflict as we have an Aiel POV from Avi or Rhuarc that the man's head would have rotten beyond recognition by the time it could be carried into the waste as proof of the man's death for his sin of cutting down the tree.  Laman was hiding behind many armies and Tam was likely greatly troubled seeing so many men die to protect one man so he probably called him out and slew him in a duel.  Tam would have had access to Laman behind the lines as Second Captain of the King of Illian's Companions.  He likely saw the conflict and heard the battle reports and knew Andor and the Two Rivers wasn't too much further from Tar Valon, and seeing how deep the Aiel had made it so far and so easily, did this to save many lives.

 

Also, this would probably have made the best background for Tam for the Prequel that RJ planned.  It just makes sense to me.  What other man needed killing would he have killed twenty years before while he rode in service to the King of Illian during the Aiel war?  Present me with some options I overlooked and I promise to keep an open mind.  Half the fun comes from exploring other options, and other possibilities.  Speaking of possibilities, if it didn't happen like this for some reason in Randland, you can be it did in one of the mirror worlds! 

[Sabio]

But we know the Aiel killed Laman, becuase once they killed him they left. In the companion it even says under Laman "after three yearss of war, the ail killed him and returned to the waste."  Also a deal between Tam and Aiel would be very unlikely as more than likely had they encountered each other they would of fought.  Another issue would of been Tam having to be alone with a king to be able to kill him and not be attacked or a war break out between Illian and Cairhein.  It's unlikely during a war that Laman would decide to fight a duel with Tam.

 

I like your theory, it would make an interesting book to have it go down like that.

 

According to the companion Tam's life was:

Born 940NE

Ran away from the Two Rivers 956NE

Enlisted in Army of Illian 957NE

Married Kari 965 NE

Became blademaster in 966NE

Served in Aiel war 976-978AE

 

 

Kari died from fever not Tam murdering her.

[threadnecromancer]

They say Kari died of a fever, but of course they do. He never married another woman, was it because he loved her so much, or because he could never really trust a woman again?
 

She sold her soul to Ba'alzomon, and I find it unlikely that she did so after her death, that doesn't seem to tie in well with what we know of the afterlife, and it also would not be as interesting to write a novel about. Tam needs conflict in his prequel novel, and I suspect that is what RJ would have gone with.

 

Ishy does kind of imply that post mortem conversion to Shadow can happen "better for you" but he was trying to scare them and when he's a bit more sane those sorts of ideas don't crop up. One would think Cyndane or someone else who had actually tasted death would have said something about it but they don't.

 

 

As to Laman, I think it is quite clear that Tam didn't kill him and his sword was certainly acquired from someone else.

[Sabio]

If Kari was a DF the shadow wouldn't of had such a hard time finding Rand. There would of been no need for Fain to go wandering about when Kari could simply of said Tam found a child.  Yes no one knew it was the Dragon Reborn.  But it would of made Rand alot easier to find.  Not to mention it would have to then be a cover up, Nyn I am sure could  of seen the difference between dying of fever and being killed.

 

From what it seems like is if you walk in the light and you die the DO can't touch your soul.  But going with the free will theme of the book he can tempt souls. At least that's how I interpret it since there isn't much to go on about souls and what happens to you after you die sort of thing. 

[Werthead]

Thom killed Taringail and probably killed Galldrian, but he definitely didn't kill Laman. There is no evidence for that at all.

[Basel Gill]

Thom killed Taringail and probably killed Galldrian, but he definitely didn't kill Laman. There is no evidence for that at all.

We were talking about whether Tam al'Thor killed Laman. I don't think anyone mentioned Thom.

[Werthead]

 

Thom killed Taringail and probably killed Galldrian, but he definitely didn't kill Laman. There is no evidence for that at all.

We were talking about whether Tam al'Thor killed Laman. I don't think anyone mentioned Thom.

 

 

Ah, that's me misreading the name :P

 

Tam was on Dragonmount roughly around the time Laman was killed. The two events happened pretty close together, and they were miles apart. It'd be a stretch for him to have done both.

[Sabio]

ANother clue Tam didn't kill Laman is when  Rand gives Lian a golden lion in TSR.  She said Rhuarac brought her two pieces from the tent of Laman right before he was beheaded. So had Tam been near there he most certainly would of been fighting the aiel and not killing Laman.

[bigdoug1971]

Gotta agree with the posts above.  Tam never killed Laman and most likely became a Blademaster in the same fashion that Galad did.  He killed a man who needed killing, he was a Blademaster, and Tam took his blade and became one himself. 

I don't think Kari was a DF.  Those were visions shown to Rand by the DO himself. 

[Orderofolde]

ANother clue Tam didn't kill Laman is when  Rand gives Lian a golden lion in TSR.  She said Rhuarac brought her two pieces from the tent of Laman right before he was beheaded. So had Tam been near there he most certainly would of been fighting the aiel and not killing Laman.

No, he got them from the tent of a Tairen High Lord, and Lian laments that she wanted some Andoran work and that he never got as far as Andor.  

[GoldeneyesND]

Has anyone asked if Harriet will entrust Brandon Sanderson with writing the books for this epic series? This is probably the only thing that still leaves me grasping at air. Its one of those things in life that I'd like to read before I die. 

 

If not I'd love if someone could someday pose this to her. Just as I was relieved and eternally grateful that The Wheel of Time was finished the right way and with love. I would like to see Mat's story through however many books as it takes, enough to do it justice, and I trust Brandon to do it right.

 

My background is, I read the series front to back 7 times. I'll probably re-read it again this year, it only gets better with each reading! So I hope that one day I'll be able to read about Mat and Tuon!

 

Sanderson has stated that Jordan's widow has shut down any talks about spinoff series.

[doihavepotential]

Tams sword was given to him by the king of illian

 

"Tam's Sword: Given to him by the King of Illian." (signing attendee: Erica Sadun, erica@cc.gatech.edu)

[Sabio]

Maybe had RJ left  more info, it maybe would of been a possibilty.  But  only RJ left about one paragraph completed.  With so little to work with,  the new author would basically be writing the entire series and it wouldn't be RJ's. 

[Orderofolde]

Sadly, money has a tendency to change people's wishes.  If WOT blows up like GOT when the TV series hits, there will be a lot of pressure, and the networks and TOR probably already have a contingency and a someone fleshing out ideas for the books.  Harriett already had financial trouble because RJ had been paid on contracts for future books which the last books and the Companion satisfied, on account of medical bills, etc.  If the plan is a good one and honors RJ, she might agree.  And then again, if someone owns the rights they can amend and produce other material.  It would then be a choice as fans of where we draw the line for ourselves.  Follow the purists who stopped at KOD, stop with AMOL, or read/watch new material.  It is such a great series that even I find myself craving more and I can see such potential for the book on young Tam.  We could see this, or we could see Rand post AMOL in the new body be the man shipwrecked on the Isle of Madmen in RJ's Shogun-like future series for a whole other adventure.  I seriously doubt that will happen, but possibility was a very big thing in RJ's work with all the mirror worlds.

[Orderofolde]

Myself, I think that when the tv series airs, I will be happy with Dragonmount and all the other fan sites coming back to life like they were post 2010.  I believe that anything created, like the TV show, will strive to honor RJ's vision as best as they can, and it will be exciting to see the adaptation.

[szilard]

Maybe had RJ left  more info, it maybe would of been a possibilty.  But  only RJ left about one paragraph completed.  With so little to work with,  the new author would basically be writing the entire series and it wouldn't be RJ's. 

 

Come on, they are not amateurs, they will follow Herbert (Dune), Tupac, Harper Lee (I mean Capote) etc:

 

 

Posthumously published works

Beginning in 2012, Herbert's estate and WordFire Press have released four previously unpublished novels

 

In recent years, Frank Herbert's son Brian Herbert and author Kevin J. Anderson have added to the Dune franchise, using notes left behind by Frank Herbert and discovered over a decade after his death. Brian Herbert and Anderson have written two prequel trilogies exploring the history of the Dune universe before the events within Dune, as well as two post-Chapterhouse Dune novels that complete the original series (Hunters of Dune and Sandworms of Dune) based on Frank Herbert's own Dune 7 outline

 

[szilard]

 It would then be a choice as fans of where we draw the line for ourselves.  Follow the purists who stopped at KOD, stop with AMOL, or read/watch new material.

 

Or stopped at TDR, at LOC