[Basic] Bolshevik Mafia - TOWN WINS

Eldrick4221 · March 30, 2016

It was a concept in general thing, not a Darthe-specific thing.

Eldrick4221 · March 30, 2016

A lot of people seem to have RL issues right now...

Turin Turambar · March 30, 2016

What are the points against Zander that you agree with?

My reason for voting Zander is primarily my own. I think we have played enough together that he does know my town meta better than he is admitting. The entire "I don't read you very well" thing is not genuine to me. He was willing to take one small thing that he thinks is indicative of my mafia game and run with it while basically ignoring the things I do as town that he has pushed me over in the past. He claims to be a meta player but that means you have to really look at what people do. I think that my sample size is big enough for him to know better and his refusal to do so has me thinking he is mafia. Certainly over the choices when I voted (Sooh and Alanna). also presently over Darthe. Is it possible that his play is affected by other things? sure, but I don't know in what way so I can only read the thread.

Also, it is just as likely that a mafia would include a teammate in a 50/50 post and then just push it the way they want it to go. people forget things all the time.

Eldrick4221 · March 30, 2016

I asked the wrong question. For some reason I thought you said you agreed with Darthe's reason i.e. it was also your reason. You said you understood it.

Can you explain to me what you understood?

Turin Turambar · March 30, 2016

Where I'm at presently...

1. Darthe- town lean: I think he is being a bit of an jerk in places but I still have him as town. I think the pushes he has made for the most part make sense.
2. Zander- mafia: simply he shold know that I would latch onto Eldrick early especially since I did catch him do something similar.
3. Sooh- light town lean: in part because I am seeing her getting pushed by people I suspect. Also I did think her Hallia change made reasonable sense.
4. Calder- null: I don't remember any of his stances. I may try to ISO him. Maynot have time today.
5. Lenlo- Town: I can't remember anything that bothered me and I really liked the way he interacted with Z. I also didn't have a problem with his question about seer cover that some did. It boils down to WIFOM ultimately and that is kinda the entire point there.
6. Hallia- mafia lean: I don't see her method for getting to Darthe is mafia. I don't see her Sooh vote as being real.
7. ~~NotBob~~ Manbat- mixed: I had him as mafia and still have some doubt about the entire meltdown thing. It feels staged. I just don't understand how anyone gets worked up about the game itself in that manner. He has had some reasonable talk mixed among it tho so I dunno.
8. Kronos- Incomplete: I didn't see his Hallia vote as a "slip". Might reconsider if she flips mafia. He needs to get in here tho because IIRC he used to have difficulty engaging the thread as mafia when he played before.
9. Turin- TTtT:
10. Laine- slight town lean: Might be giving extra rope because I tend to read her incorrectly as mafia so often. I hope that she get more time to play and bring the fire. I don't hate her Thane vote but think i could be a cop out to avoid the Z/Darthe vote.
11. Eldrick- Mafia lean: The two potential slips( vote: the wolves, not not not not). the Sooh thing. just a general bad feeling. His game seems always TWTBAWW but that gives me pause. Finally it did feel like he was seer hunting in the early discussion.
12. Thane- incomplete: Seriously. get in the game or sub out.
13. BFG- Strong town lean: I usually read her town early and I will here as well. She didn't wilt when Darthe kinda went at her. She just kept working and trying to get him to explain. I like the why questions. I can see where she is coming from and where her thoughts are going.

Turin

Lenlo

BFG

Darthe

Sooh

Alanna

Manbat

Calder

Kronos*

Thane*

Eldrick

Hallia

Zander

Eldrick4221 · March 30, 2016

Where I'm at presently...

1. Darthe- town lean: I think he is being a bit of an jerk in places but I still have him as town. I think the pushes he has made for the most part make sense.
2. Zander- mafia: simply he shold know that I would latch onto Eldrick early especially since I did catch him do something similar.
3. Sooh- light town lean: in part because I am seeing her getting pushed by people I suspect. Also I did think her Hallia change made reasonable sense.
4. Calder- null: I don't remember any of his stances. I may try to ISO him. Maynot have time today.
5. Lenlo- Town: I can't remember anything that bothered me and I really liked the way he interacted with Z. I also didn't have a problem with his question about seer cover that some did. It boils down to WIFOM ultimately and that is kinda the entire point there.
6. Hallia- mafia lean: I don't see her method for getting to Darthe is mafia. I don't see her Sooh vote as being real.
7. ~~NotBob~~ Manbat- mixed: I had him as mafia and still have some doubt about the entire meltdown thing. It feels staged. I just don't understand how anyone gets worked up about the game itself in that manner. He has had some reasonable talk mixed among it tho so I dunno.
8. Kronos- Incomplete: I didn't see his Hallia vote as a "slip". Might reconsider if she flips mafia. He needs to get in here tho because IIRC he used to have difficulty engaging the thread as mafia when he played before.
9. Turin- TTtT:
10. Laine- slight town lean: Might be giving extra rope because I tend to read her incorrectly as mafia so often. I hope that she get more time to play and bring the fire. I don't hate her Thane vote but think i could be a cop out to avoid the Z/Darthe vote.
11. Eldrick- Mafia lean: The two potential slips( vote: the wolves, not not not not). the Sooh thing. just a general bad feeling. His game seems always TWTBAWW but that gives me pause. Finally it did feel like he was seer hunting in the early discussion.
12. Thane- incomplete: Seriously. get in the game or sub out.
13. BFG- Strong town lean: I usually read her town early and I will here as well. She didn't wilt when Darthe kinda went at her. She just kept working and trying to get him to explain. I like the why questions. I can see where she is coming from and where her thoughts are going.

Turin

Lenlo

BFG

Darthe

Sooh

Alanna

Manbat

Calder

Kronos*

Thane*

Eldrick

Hallia

Zander

I find it weird that your read on Zander is tied to me, being you just explained your own reason for reading him. Why isn't that listed here instead? And what does you "latching on to me" have to do with him?

Lenlo is again a linking read. Would you feel the same way about him if Zander flipped town?

I'm feeling pretty good about manbat. Can you explain why you had him as mafia?

Eldrick4221 · March 30, 2016

11. Eldrick- Mafia lean: The two potential slips( vote: the wolves, not not not not). the Sooh thing. just a general bad feeling. His game seems always TWTBAWW but that gives me pause. Finally it did feel like he was seer hunting in the early discussion.

Two potential slips. I can see how the second one can be seen as a slip. It's gonna haunt me all game that I didn't proofread it first. It was a steam of consciousness post and I didn't check to see if it made sense.

The other one, though, the concept that I'm scum because I made a similar joke to one I made as scum before. I can't believe you're still holding onto that. It's not a reason.

As for the Sooh thing, you don't get where I was coming from with that? I didn't make the connection on my first read through. BFG posted Hally quotes asking how Sooh got a green read from them. It didn't make sense to me. It felt to me like she knew Hally's alignment and was trying to white knight her. I have since cleared that up. You're still holding a misread against me?

As for the seer hunting thing, I'm still trying to wrap my brain around that. I have no idea what I said that could make you think I was seer hunting.

Shad_ · March 30, 2016

"The morning sun shines on the motherland. It is good day. There will be a lynch, no? And a shooting."

"Stalin, my friend, I must inform you. The moderator, he says there may be no lynch without coffee"

"Filthy capitalist drink. Give him vodka."

Shad_ · March 30, 2016

☭☭☭☭☭☭

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT

Zander (4): Turin, Calder, Darthe, Lenlo

Darthe (3): Eldrick, Zander, Hallia

Thane (1): Laine

Not Voting: BFG, Kronos, Sooh, Thane, manbat

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

☭☭☭☭☭☭

alannalynn · March 30, 2016

I just woke up and skimmed to catch up before leaving for school. Zander, you're pushing the angle that I haven't reevaluated my stance on you. The only other content that I have is you and Darthe yelling back and forth at each other which I read and didn't like how you came out of that argument. For me, this isn't a choice between Zander and Darthe, I think you're mafia, separate from Darthe's alignment. fwiw, I believe Darthe might be town.

BFG commented my vote on Thane came out of nowhere... I was starting ISOs with Thane and noticed how friggen scummy he is. Zero content in 56 pages is not a good look. I'm committed to lynching Zander but would be WTL Thane as well right now. I started a Sooh ISO but fell asleep :sad:

Thane Vakarian · March 30, 2016

I'm on page 42, trying to make sense of it all with 2 hours till deadline. i do apologize for my absence, which is work-related. I know I'm probably a question mark for a lot of people. I'll try (TRY) to improve that, but it won't be easy. I'll try to fulfill the role given to me this game as good and as bad as I can, tho.

Shad_ · March 30, 2016

Mod note: I have posted all of the vote counts in this game. ISOing me should provide a list of them.

alannalynn · March 30, 2016

This is kind of where I am:
Alanna
Kronos
Monstr
Turin
Darthe
Eldrick
BFG
Hally
Lenlo
Calder
Sooh
Thane
Zander

No colors because I need to get dressed, I should be able to talk a little bit once I'm in class, which starts at 9:25, DL is at 10.

BFG · March 30, 2016

I just woke up and skimmed to catch up before leaving for school. Zander, you're pushing the angle that I haven't reevaluated my stance on you. The only other content that I have is you and Darthe yelling back and forth at each other which I read and didn't like how you came out of that argument. For me, this isn't a choice between Zander and Darthe, I think you're mafia, separate from Darthe's alignment. fwiw, I believe Darthe might be town.

BFG commented my vote on Thane came out of nowhere... I was starting ISOs with Thane and noticed how friggen scummy he is. Zero content in 56 pages is not a good look. I'm committed to lynching Zander but would be WTL Thane as well right now. I started a Sooh ISO but fell asleep

Not going to hold falling asleep against anyone <3

What are your current thoughts on Sooh/Eldrick?

BFG · March 30, 2016

Lol guess that answers that.

alannalynn · March 30, 2016

Sooh is lower on my list because I didn't get to dig into her ISO, so that being said I'm not willing to lynch her today without being better informed. I feel good about Eldrick. Yeahhh he's wolfy but he's always wolfy and says things that make no sense but I'm getting more of a town feel from him for some inexplicable reason. Probably not a good explanation hahah

BFG · March 30, 2016

Just ISOd Zander, Calder, Laine

With Laine the only real issue is thé Thane vote. As of her first list she had a bottom 3 of Zander/Sooh/Eldrick, her vote landing on Thane seems off. Her recent list has them both higher. But there's nothing in her ISO to explain why.

A paranoid part of me questions her read on me, I'm out of my mafia

meta, but for reasons that I don't think Laine usually use to read me by. Having said that she's said it's not a strong read so I'm probably just paranoid.

Eldrick4221 · March 30, 2016

I can't decide if Laine is actually putting in an effort or just an appearance of one. It's not the level I'm used to from town!Laine. I know she said we won't be getting that, but I have to worry if it's a front because she's scum and knows she won't be giving the same level of effort that she would as town.

BFG · March 30, 2016

I liked her first list, I honestly don't know how concensusy she is as mafia, she bussed Lenlo in Matrix but was quiet, I think her reads in Belichick were mostly LHF, but would have to check. I think attacking a vocal player would be out of her mafia range, but I don't know. Keep in mind that in gnd she had cop checks on Shad and me.

Probably slotting in as uneasy town for now.

alannalynn · March 30, 2016

Just ISOd Zander, Calder, Laine

With Laine the only real issue is thé Thane vote. As of her first list she had a bottom 3 of Zander/Sooh/Eldrick, her vote landing on Thane seems off. Her recent list has them both higher. But there's nothing in her ISO to explain why.

A paranoid part of me questions her read on me, I'm out of my mafia

meta, but for reasons that I don't think Laine usually use to read me by. Having said that she's said it's not a strong read so I'm probably just paranoid.

IRT Eldrick moving up and Thane moving down from nulls: Eldrick was a mixed read for me, as in "this could be scummy, but could also be townie, I'll wait and see" I don't think I had an exact lean on him to begin with but right now he's leaning town. Sooh was also mixed and still kind of is until I ISO. Thane was null and now he's mafia. I'm pretty sure I explained my thoughts on Eldrick earlier, that I could go either way, I just happened to bring him up the list instead of down, I suppose.

I mean, damn, their exact placement on my list is nothing if I'm not lynching them right now. I'm waiting to vote Zander since I'll be here at DL and wouldn't mind talking with him.

BFG, you confuse me but I think you might be town but it's a very very cautious town.

I can't decide if Laine is actually putting in an effort or just an appearance of one. It's not the level I'm used to from town!Laine. I know she said we won't be getting that, but I have to worry if it's a front because she's scum and knows she won't be giving the same level of effort that she would as town.

FFS Eldrick I can put in the same level of effort as a wolf, I'm sorry that this isn't good enough but I have a life. Yet I don't see you saying ANYTHING to those who literally aren't here and haven't been here.

And now I'm late for school.

BFG · March 30, 2016

Calder hasn't offered much outside of Zander. I'm pretty sure he's still firmly within both his mafia and town range/meta. Don't think I can do anything there without flips. His post about Zander/Laine reminds me a little of his post on Dice in HftDR (follow through makes Calder/Zander unlikely), but that sort of observation would apparently be within his town range - based on Corys read :unsure:

Zander? · March 30, 2016

At this point my reads are almost worthless.

Strongest read is Manbat

I think Turin and Sooh are probably town, and that's pretty poor for this stage of the game. Turin I've touched on but mostly the confrontational attitude. Sooh is mostly because I think her early tone would have been cleaner as mafia, and the ramp up in activity feels natural.

Darthe is tricky. On the one hand he's antagonised half the thread and that's generically not mafia behaviour, Darthe isn't generic so although he's probably slightly townie for it I can't clear him for it. I dislike his voting pattern this game, but it seems geared to garnering reactions which again is probably more townie. At the moment I'm saying likely town, but I really need to ISO him to have confidence in it.

Re Zander - it's probably a mistake to clear him for how hard he fights a lynch, he fought his lynch in Diablo(?) as a peeked mafia harder than most people fight lynches period. He's hard to read this game because he hasn't really cased anyone. I'd lynch him over Darthe but don't have much confidence in it, I didn't have many problems with him until he started being cased. The OMGUS is null for him, the concern is in the apparent lack of suspects before then, not sure how much credit to give for RL.

Laine's vote on Thane comes out of nowhere to be continued.

Running late for work, but I'll finish thoughts/reads while at work.

BFG what is your strongest read on Monstr?

It was Diablo. What is your read on me then?

Thoughts on Lainey?

What about the rest?

More importantly, would you say that you are playing like you did in Cory's game?

Eldrick, I didn't read it as any sort of pressure / reaction test vote. more of a "hello" vote. Now if one of them flips mafia (more likely Hallia IMO at this point) then it might be indicative but only really as a w/w situation.

My point about the peeks is that if you really believe your own "peek" then you have to doubt the sincerity of any one else's. It looks to me like she was trying to use that you BOTH peeked Z as town to be supportive of each other. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Im not sure Im following this, can you please elaborate Turin?

Turin Turambar · March 30, 2016

Where I'm at presently...

1. Darthe- town lean: I think he is being a bit of an jerk in places but I still have him as town. I think the pushes he has made for the most part make sense.

2. Zander- mafia: simply he shold know that I would latch onto Eldrick early especially since I did catch him do something similar.

3. Sooh- light town lean: in part because I am seeing her getting pushed by people I suspect. Also I did think her Hallia change made reasonable sense.

4. Calder- null: I don't remember any of his stances. I may try to ISO him. Maynot have time today.

5. Lenlo- Town: I can't remember anything that bothered me and I really liked the way he interacted with Z. I also didn't have a problem with his question about seer cover that some did. It boils down to WIFOM ultimately and that is kinda the entire point there.

6. Hallia- mafia lean: I don't see her method for getting to Darthe is mafia. I don't see her Sooh vote as being real.

7. ~~NotBob~~ Manbat- mixed: I had him as mafia and still have some doubt about the entire meltdown thing. It feels staged. I just don't understand how anyone gets worked up about the game itself in that manner. He has had some reasonable talk mixed among it tho so I dunno.

8. Kronos- Incomplete: I didn't see his Hallia vote as a "slip". Might reconsider if she flips mafia. He needs to get in here tho because IIRC he used to have difficulty engaging the thread as mafia when he played before.

9. Turin- TTtT:

10. Laine- slight town lean: Might be giving extra rope because I tend to read her incorrectly as mafia so often. I hope that she get more time to play and bring the fire. I don't hate her Thane vote but think i could be a cop out to avoid the Z/Darthe vote.

11. Eldrick- Mafia lean: The two potential slips( vote: the wolves, not not not not). the Sooh thing. just a general bad feeling. His game seems always TWTBAWW but that gives me pause. Finally it did feel like he was seer hunting in the early discussion.

12. Thane- incomplete: Seriously. get in the game or sub out.

13. BFG- Strong town lean: I usually read her town early and I will here as well. She didn't wilt when Darthe kinda went at her. She just kept working and trying to get him to explain. I like the why questions. I can see where she is coming from and where her thoughts are going.

Turin

Lenlo

BFG

Darthe

Sooh

Alanna

Manbat

Calder

Kronos*

Thane*

Eldrick

Hallia

Zander

I find it weird that your read on Zander is tied to me, being you just explained your own reason for reading him. Why isn't that listed here instead? And what does you "latching on to me" have to do with him?

Lenlo is again a linking read. Would you feel the same way about him if Zander flipped town?

I'm feeling pretty good about manbat. Can you explain why you had him as mafia?

He isn't tied to you in that your flip impacts my view of the other. It was just you were the one that I spotted something on which he used to paint me as mafia IMO.

Lenlo isn't linked to Z either. He just showed himself to be town to me in the way he interacted. Therefore Zander's flip doesn't mean anything to me in how I read Len.

In one word the meltdown. It felt kinda fake like he knew he had to do it but wasn't really all in. I admit I don't understand how he gets to that state in any game. I guess in newspeak it kinda tilts me.(totally not sure if that is the right word) Also the hypocrisy in his stance on Alanna and his own statement about not being obvious until late game. It just pinged at me big time.

Zander? · March 30, 2016

Maybe Sooh too, but we'Lloyd see on that one

I am playing, but I'm intensely disliking this situation.

On one hand I feel like Zander's posts have been scummy.

On the other I feel mean if I vote him considering RL stuff. And yet again I know I shouldn't take that into account, but it's really hard not to. I'm stuck trying to find an alternative to a Zander-lynch, and I don't know where to point my finger yet. I have Zander on the bottom, and the next over him is my null/no information tier. I just don't know yet.

I can't clear Darthe, but I think he is showing more his town side than not.

I can't clear Laine.

I can't clear Calder.

I have town feels about Lenlo, based on what I've seen so far and his willingness to solve.

Turin is town.

Monstr feels town. He rolls with whatever happens in the thread and says what's in his head.

Eldrick is perhaps the lowest in my reads except for Zander. I felt his vote on me was unsubstantiated and I kind of feel the same about his vote on Darthe. If he's town I can't see it right now.

I can't clear BFG.

I believe Hallia is town.

Sooh are you caught up?

What do you think of my entry?

Dont use that to evaluate me, I freaked out like a tool and I prollt should not have but DONT use that as the only reason to not vote me.

Give me your updated thoughts please.

I am not ready to vote you if that's what you mean. Your posts have been better since you came back. I may need a peek to clear you completely this game though.

Off to work. Later guys.

Fair enough.

When you get the chance please comment on some of the things I said if you dont mind.

I may not get the chance before end of phase. I have 15 mins for lunch, and that's about it before EOD.

I really feel like its important, have you had the chance?

Eldrick, can you give us your reasoning for thinking Darthe is mafia.

I have already done so.

I don't like his case on Zander. I think it's for weak reasons and he expects us to go with him on them.

He claims to also have reasons for Laine to be scum, but I don't recall him mentioning them, even after I specifically commented on that.

And this combined with the idea that we should vote between the 2 because they are scumreading each other. It feels to me like trying to push a mislynch. If Darthe is scum Zander and Laine have a good chance of being v/v.

Well as I think Z is more likely than not mafia I can see how Darthe gets there. I see the thought process he described in that people that are saying each other are mafia but not really working at lynching the other and ending up other places is a mafia tactic.

What if Darthe is town? What does that do to your Z and Alanna reads?

You can see Darthe's thought process?

Did you skip my catch up on him?

He voted me 4 hours before the reasoning HE chooses as his defense of his read when I question him on it?

This is normal?

Zander? · March 30, 2016

What are the points against Zander that you agree with?

My reason for voting Zander is primarily my own. I think we have played enough together that he does know my town meta better than he is admitting. The entire "I don't read you very well" thing is not genuine to me. He was willing to take one small thing that he thinks is indicative of my mafia game and run with it while basically ignoring the things I do as town that he has pushed me over in the past. He claims to be a meta player but that means you have to really look at what people do. I think that my sample size is big enough for him to know better and his refusal to do so has me thinking he is mafia. Certainly over the choices when I voted (Sooh and Alanna). also presently over Darthe. Is it possible that his play is affected by other things? sure, but I don't know in what way so I can only read the thread.

Also, it is just as likely that a mafia would include a teammate in a 50/50 post and then just push it the way they want it to go. people forget things all the time.

Refusal to do so? Im pretty sure I did.

Did I push you? Or did I question you?

Have I voted you?

Have I not read you wrong as Town!Zander in like almost if not all games we played together?

Would you not think that as we Scumed together and shared a QT that I MIGHT be more inclined to think I have a bit better understanding of your scum game?

As far as sample size, Ive played a ton of games with Sooh and I still suck at reading her Ive lead her mislynch as Town more times then I care to remember, some people I find harder to read, also theres a lot of players Ive played with a lot more then you.

Is there anything else besides this, that would lead you to your read on me?

[Basic] Bolshevik Mafia - TOWN WINS

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