[Basic] Supernatural Mafia ~ Game Over ~ Town Wins!!!

[LilyElizabeth]

I will agree that you wouldn't do anything stupid. Scum does things that seem helpful, which is what you're trying to look like. So does town, I know. I know. 

[LilyElizabeth]

I suck at day one in a normal game. This is really bad... lol

[alannalynn]

It would work for me if I thought you were town, but I don't. I would happily work with Turin, BFG, or Nyn, though. 

 

I could switch my vote to Zander, if you'd like. Or I can leave it where it is until tomorrow and then look for the best place to put it to achieve the best lynch. Would you prefer that I just unvote? I'll do that for you, if you want. I'm not going to get a lynch on you this day, anyway. 

My appeals aren't working, leave your vote where it is, I'd prefer Zander not get lynched because he's a good asset to town.

I probably trust BFG the most out of those three, followed by Turin and Nyn.

[LilyElizabeth]

I'm done for the night. I feel it's best to Unvote  and reassess in the morning. 

[alannalynn]

omg Zander I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt here! But yeah, I do see that more likely to come from a wolf!Sooh than a town!Sooh so you've made your point. I'm not sure she'll get lynched today so I'd prefer a push on Nolder.

 

#FULLZANDER at eod for me?

 

Lily the last game you saw me as scum was on JN, I think it was Ragnarok. I might look back at that game. hm.

[alannalynn]

Goodnight Lily! I'm going to get back to homework I guess

[Shad_]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT

 

Nolder(2): Alannalynn, Nynaeve

Sooh(2): Pralaya, Zander

Thane(2): BFG, bgrishinko

Zander(2): Turin, Nolder

 

Not Voting: Thane, Sooh, Eldrick, Lily

 

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[alannalynn]

I'm waiting for my clothes to dry before I go to bed so I guess I'll catch up. Not done with homework yet I got about halfway through two assignments though?? =/

[Sooh]

 

BFG - I believe she's town. She's doing the word and asking questions to help solve the game. 

Nyn - I like Nyn's posts as well. Both her attitude and her solving is very towny.

BGrishinko - I like his posts. He seems to be taking in the new atmosphere and try to figure people out. However, this may be the one who pockets me. 

 

Turin - I feel like he's trying to figure this out, but I'm not confident in this read. I'm most confident about Turin when I disagree with him the most basically. I will have to go back and look at him more. One of the things that makes me doubt my read is that he is giving me the benefit of the doubt. 

Laine - I feel like she's the same Laine as I usually see in her town games, but then again she did fool me last game. I am uncertain about this slot.

 

I'll keep rereading when I get home from work tomorrow, but that's where I'm at right now.

 

Nolder - No idea. Basically I like that he seems some of the same things I see in Zander. 

Lily - Also no idea. Must read more closely.

Thane - Could go either way. I can't clear or condemn him.

Eldrick - Weird player. Takes time for me to figure out. He had a post I didn't like earlier about having too many nulls. (Ironic since I have like four nulls myself perhaps) I have mislynched him too many times though. I would like to see him make it beyond D1. 

 

Pral - Down here because I didn't understand why he made a push towards me. I know Nyn tried to explain, but I didn't really get that either. Not much else to go on.

Zander - Down here because I have no reason to clear him basically. I don't like the sarcasm and snarky attitude. If either Zander or I are lynched today I recommend a cop view on the other, because I don't think we can be cleared in any other way.

 

Can you touch more on your BG read please?

 

Also you havent been able to move Eld out Null yet either?  He's done nothing to make you lean either way at all?

 

Thoughts on Nolder's case against me please?

 

Also FYI- You top 2 suspects are the ones voting you.  Just saying.

 

BG responded well to my prod, and has had some good observations throughout the game. My worry and the reason I said he might be pocketing me is because he has been almost too friendly and reasonable. He seems none too keen on attracting someone's continued attention.

 

Nolder's case on you is highly influenced by my case on you, and so is my view of it. He appears to see the same things I see in you, and I like that about him. He's also, same as Eldrick, someone who I frequently read wrong. This means I'm not confident enough with either of them toDay to move them out of my nulls.

 

and FYI, I'm aware.

[alannalynn]

Pg 31-32 is basically Nolder just reacting but not adding anything of substance to the game. Please lynch this scum.

 

Oh look! things that apply to me!

 

I'm liking Nyn and Turin for town at this point.
Alannalynn is bothering me. I feel like she's directing all this attention to me BECAUSE I directed attention to her. I don't like it. It's OMGUSy. And where I come from explaining your own meta as in "I wouldn't do that as scum" or "I always do this as town"  is scummy. ANYBODY can change their meta. She's my scummiest read so far, although I still don't like Zander's "joke" and put him in second place.
Vote Laine
By the way, my kitty seems to be doing a little better. I'm taking him to the vet tomorrow for fluids, although he is drinking a little now. But he's 11 years old and could use the help. Thanks for all your kind words.

I can get behind Lily's thought in this post. Bothers me when people try and use show off their own-meta. Just establishes they are self-aware enough of their meta that they can use it to subvert expectations to me. Bringing attention to it just makes me want to question it.

Refer to me talking to Lily within the last few pages. I've yet to see a reason that this is inherently scummy.
 

 

Pretty much what I attached to my reads list. I find it a little odd that Lily jumped on to me saying my push on her was omgus when she was the first to push me irt my comments on your "joke" post at the beginning. Not sure what to make of that.
 
She also commented on the meta part, that anyone can change their meta but I don't see why I would change something that works and would be effective in getting me town read or potentially netting me a pocket. The fact that i'm self aware of this aspect of my meta doesn't change the fact that it works for me and I'm going to keep using it until it fails me. lol
 
I also highly doubt I'm the scummiest person in the game thus far.

This right here just reinforces what I just was thinking almost word for word... lol. She's self-aware of the meta. That means it can be subverted to manipulate. The only end result here is she's trying to convince us we have no choice but to see "x action" as an indicator she must be town. And the last sentence is just eye-rollingly frustrating.

Question BG: do you think I'm currently using my meta to manipulate anyone?
 

 

There was one thing about Nyn earlier that caught me off guard when she didn't push me when I snarked back, but that's probably nothing, potentially something. I'm not going to say it's a ping but I know she likes to prod at me until I react and by not doing that is something I want to keep in mind irt her ability to read me without making me yell at her.

This post feels really off to me.

Nyn actually responded to this post. In the past few games that we've played together, she's made an effort to get under my skin and annoy the crap out of me to the point that I explode on her and she thinks it's fun to do that to determine my alignment. I thought it was odd that she did NOT do that this game yet, especially when she had the perfect opportunity when I snarked back at her. So, I'm a little confused whether I should consider it a null point or give her a slight scum read based on the fact that she has not tried to determine my alignment yet and is all around pretty amiable towards me.
 

 

I'm actually gonna switch up and [unvote] [v]Nolder[/v] because I want some pressure there

Okay, so, from my memories of years gone by, Nolder was always a super easy Day 1 mafia lynch target. He used to kind of putter around and not be real effective till later in the game. So when I see votes on Nolder day 1 without much substance, especially as deadline gets close, I get worried. Now if there was some decent reasoning behind Nolder vote, I'd understand.

 Does a few years ago apply to today? No, it doesn't. I've caught Nolder twice in a row on this feeling- the first time no one believed me until later in the game even though I was pushing him from d1, and pretty strongly, I might add. The other one Nyn lynched him before I entered the game. So feels can work sometimes. If I wanted an easy mislynch for day 1 I would go after Pralaya or Eldrick, not Nolder who can easily put up a fuss and blow up to get out of a situation. But I think he's mafia and would prefer to go that way d1.

[bgrishinko]

DM mafia has grown up? Ha! Was it immature before?

 

Alannalynn... Let me sum up the what I think Lily is trying to convey in one simple term because I'm feeling the same thing from your arguments... WIFOM.

 

The fact you know your town meta means if you are mafia, you can fake your town meta much easier. On top of that you are actively bragging about how townie you are because your play fits your meta so well! Well. I for one am not going to just trust you on that. Talking about how you only like to play and get really involved if you are town is decidedly not a more mature way of playing. How boring is it to play with someone who doesn't try hard because they get mafia? After saying that, if I were ever in a QT with you, I'd ask the mods to replace you for that attitude. Also your example of Calder claiming to be mafia every game is a terrible example I think. Someone admits to being scum, he's got to be lynched. That guy needs to be policy lynched every game until he quits that crap.

 

Every post of yours regarding meta just reads WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM.

[BFG]

 

this conversation feels very familiar

 

I'm not sure I completely buy Sooh's earlier response either

Buy which response?

 

Oh, and before I forget. Zander, you're not at all Zander this game. You seem hostile, defensive, FOSing everyone (at least until recalibrating with Cory), and I don't see at all the townie Zander that I've come to expect. This has nothing to do with volume. It has to do with tone. You're using vocabulary that seems un-Zander and that is why I'll

 

[unvote]

[v]Zander[/v]

 

Sooh, can you explain the bolded?

[bgrishinko]

In answer to your direct question: I think it does feel like an attempt to be manipulative. I have no opinions on how you normally play. I do think you are way overly focused on your own meta. Trying to prove your point repeatedly by it does feel manipulative. Play the game and let others decide if you are acting normal or not.

[alannalynn]

The point that I'm trying to make is that it's easier to find a group of townies than it is to find 3 mafia. THAT is where meta comes in to play. If I can clear a few people and trust them and trust their reads because of META then I'm going to sheep them and bounce ideas off of them and get things done a lot easier than I am trying to go at this alone like I'm the only townie in existence who needs to find all the scum while looking at everyone crosseyed. So, when I convey that meta is important, this is what I'm saying. This is a team game and and I'm trying to make it a friendly environment where we can lunch wolves together. I play one way, you play another, others play weirdly, but whatever. If I say that ____ is mafia and ____ is town, I kind of want to be trusted with what I'm saying. So, when I say that I'm within my town meta, go look at my other games to confirm this, I say that with confidence that what you'll find is literally my town meta which I'm supplying on thread right now. If I was mafia, I probably would not do the same thing, I wouldn't care about the game as much. I would care enough to try and win (see GnD mafia) but I don't invest nearly as much time into this, sacrificing sleep and school work when I am mafia. I'm more likely to use excuses to not be here and involved every day, trying to clear townies so that we have a town core that can help me hunt wolves.

 

So sure, you don't like that I'm "bragging" about being town. But I want to ask you: am I here, trying to find wolves and being engaged with the thread? If the answer is yes, then what is your problem, man?

[alannalynn]

I only keep bringing it up because you and Lily seem overly focused on it being a problem.

[alannalynn]

I don't particularly like Nolder refusing to supply a reads list, or any leans at all from what I can see. Unhelpful attitudes suck.

[alannalynn]

You keep saying using Meta is scummy but let me ask you this then, if someone is building a case on you based on Meta that is both incorrect and irrelevant based on what that person said themselves, is it not ok to use prove-able facts about said Meta to debunk the case?

 

Im not the one who brought up Meta, it was brought up against me so I proved it wrong.

Zander is my favorite person lol

[BFG]

Laine I still want you to answer me about Thane!

[bgrishinko]

Ok. A few things here. I never said meta in general is bad. I used my knowledge of how Nolder used to act to inform my own opinions. However, tying to use your own meta as an example is bad. It forces people into a binary decision of you are either with me or against me. I also feel like you are trying to form your own little exclusive League of Super Town club that you can lead like Draco Malfoy. You even said you are going to sheep them. Calling people sheep is normally an insult. Hence the term "Sheeple" for people who are easily controlled or manipulated.

[bgrishinko]

Also... ARGH! You did it again! WIFOM WIFOM! "Look how town I am, see other games, I acted the same way and therefore the only conclusion is I absolutely must be town again."

 

[image]http://cdn.meme.am/instances/64716659.jpg[/image]

[bgrishinko]

Blargh. Messed up the tag on my phone.

[alannalynn]

#718 moving Nyn closer to my town core
 

Ok. A few things here. I never said meta in general is bad. I used my knowledge of how Nolder used to act to inform my own opinions. However, tying to use your own meta as an example is bad. It forces people into a binary decision of you are either with me or against me. I also feel like you are trying to form your own little exclusive League of Super Town club that you can lead like Draco Malfoy. You even said you are going to sheep them. Calling people sheep is normally an insult. Hence the term "Sheeple" for people who are easily controlled or manipulated.

You are literally using everything I say as a weapon. Why can't we just find a middle ground? lol But seriously, how is you using Nolder's meta from two/three years ago which is known and public knowledge any different than me explaining my own meta? His meta can just as easily be manipulated by him as mine can. But it also can be just as easily VERIFIED. I'm sorry if you don't want to do the work, but that's your problem and not mine right now.

 

This comes down to town-telling. If I can indicate to other townies that I am town, then they can trust me. If they can trust me, they wont lynch me and they can work with me. If I can't gain that trust, they wont work with me and we can't lynch wolves together. What YOU are doing is trying to create a divide because for some reason you think it's better for town to discredit other villagers than to recognize their ability to town tell and going with that. You're going to come out of this looking scummier than me every time.

 

Also, and lol, I called myself a sheep. I know that I'm not the best player in the world, but I know that certain people have better reads than me and other peoples reads suck. If I can identify them as villagers and I can make better choices. Two, three, four heads are better than one. And the fact that you are trying to PREVENT that from happening is anti-town at best.

[alannalynn]

Laine I still want you to answer me about Thane!

There was a question? I'm sorry I might have missed it. I have talked about Thane since I caught up though... I think....

 

I have to wake up in 3.5 hours. FML

[Sooh]

 

 

this conversation feels very familiar

 

I'm not sure I completely buy Sooh's earlier response either

Buy which response?

 

Oh, and before I forget. Zander, you're not at all Zander this game. You seem hostile, defensive, FOSing everyone (at least until recalibrating with Cory), and I don't see at all the townie Zander that I've come to expect. This has nothing to do with volume. It has to do with tone. You're using vocabulary that seems un-Zander and that is why I'll

 

[unvote]

[v]Zander[/v]

 

Sooh, can you explain the bolded?

 

When I did my ISO of Zander I tried pointing out all the players he has FOSed early game. Then came a post where he said that Cory and he hadn't discussed very much yet, and then came the list of leans in which he pointed out he had cooperated with Cory on making. Some of the town leans on that list were people he had sussed earlier.

[bgrishinko]

But Nolder didn't refer to his own meta! It's completely different! If Turin or Eld or someone came in and said you were acting like your normal town self, that'd be fine. But you can't just tell people "Look how town I'm behaving! Believe me or else you are anti-town. How dare you question my obviously town play?"

 

Do you know what WIFOM means? Or has that term gone out of style?