[BASIC/STANDARD] Warcraft: War of the Ancients Mafia - GAME OVER, MAFIA WINS

[Lenlo]

Im to lazy to do colors atm

 

1. Shad ------ Town Lean, half green half grey.

2. Kaylee ---- No flippin idea.

3. Zander --- Town, dark green

4. Turin ----- Claimed Doc, not gonna fight it on D1, if hes lying we will figure it out later

5. Pizza ----- Town, Dark Green

6. Csarmi --- Grey/light red, do something. Might vote you for the heck of it.

7. Laine ----- town lean, bout the same as Shad but some more green

8. Leno ------ Hai

9. Wish-tree - I feel one of Wish/Celeste is scum, leaning towards Celeste

10. Pralaya -- Post, tempted to vote you with Nolder just for the heck of it

11. Celeste -- Scum for the day imo

12. Nolder --- As I said, dont think he can last. If hes scum he will only get scummier, if he is town he will stay town or get townier. Currently think hes town

13. Cass (with Cory mentoring) - Think town, but with a Cory Mentor who knows. I forgot Cory was mentoring her until now when I checked the front so yay. Tricks

 

[v]Celeste[/v]

 

Right back to stage one. Gonna go back and get the quotes that stood out to me for Celeste.

[Kaylee]

 

I'd like to bit honestly I'm not sure. I'd vote Csarmi then. I've given thoughts and reads. I just don't feel strongly enough about anyone to push a lynch. I won't just to save myself either. That wouldn't help town win. Unfortunately D1 is hard for me so I often struggle.

 

I'm following along and being aS active as I can. The only other I'm not sold on my list is Nolder. I'd like to not say as to why just yet as it depends on how he proceeds.

I haven't done the work on Csarmi, and he's given me very little to work with. But he's above several people on my POE.

 

Would you lynch Celeste instead of yourself or Turin, if Turin somehow looked like a villager today? Those are my bottom 3, I'd like to contain it to that if possible.

 

Or is it always Csarmi first, Celeste later?

First [unvote] I won't vote a claimed town PR. Csarmi was higher since I have little on him and I wanted to give Celeste time. I could vote her but I'd honestly like to give her time.

[Celeste]

Lenlo I really suggest you read Raganorak for differences in my play. I was a godfather in that game hydrating with Wish. We are different this game.

[Zander?]

 

Zander is now firmly town for me. That was some proper work on the Wish ISO. If everyone is still convinced Shad is not a candidate for today then I would be most willing to switch to Wish.

 

Why don't you do some proper work?

 

 

 

I dont know Pizza's scum game all that well but I'd be pretty surprised if he makes this comment coupled with the "BS" comment during his breakdown of Turin's reds list comment.

[Celeste]

@Zander Curosity and also for seeing inconsistencies down the road.

[alannalynn]

 

*snipped*

 

List feels pretty easy, I particularly want you to take stronger stances on Wish and Celeste since they seem to be discussed a lot today. 1) Why is Wish null to you when you have Zander so high? 2) Is Celeste there only because of Pizza? 3) What do you mean by Nolder "going outside of what I'm used to"? 4) What question are you waiting on from Turin and has he answered it already?

1) I liked his case it made sense, but Shad raised valid points about get meta which I'm not familiar with. I don't see her being wolf with Celeste. I could possibly vote there. I'm trying not to sheep.

 

2) No. I mentioned her earlier. The reads list doesn't give a lot, but I didn't say much about it since I know mine are the same. Pizzas points just made sense but as I've been saying since her "oh now I'm going to be mislynched" comment, I'm willing to give her time.

 

3) Not his typical meta. Plain and simple. The starting with the question. Hoping for more there but not seeing enough as of yet.

 

4) Funny as you want others to read your posts but you didn't read mine to know the answer. I asked why he shouldn't be lynched. Yes he's answered it. No I wasn't fully satisfied with the answer hence why I voted him.

 

1. Then why aren't you voting Wish if Zander's case made sense and you don't get the meta argument? What's holding you back from a solid read?

2. I did look at your ISO and you are giving her a lot of leeway, which I understand. I just wish I saw more explanation from you on your reads.

3. I'm okay with this.

4. Snippy. I've been a little buried in catching up so I haven't fully read all the current posts, just responded to things that have applied to me.

 

I think my problem with your posts is that I don't feel you're invested and so I'm not fully remembering them like I should. I don't know... something's just bothering me

[Zander?]

I'm your main accuser. I want to know if I'm town or scum soon.

 

You should be able to categorize me now. I need to not be null on your list before D1 ends.

 

This comment is strange Pizza as youre in the exact same situation with me.

[Zander?]

Run away from all your boredom

Run away from all your whoredom and wave

Your worries, and cares, goodbye

 

 

Worries

Cares

Goodbye

 

If theres a vig can they just shoot Salami so I dont have to read this kinda crap???!!!

 

 

lololololololol

[alannalynn]

He did have you as Orange, so I'm assuming that was his point.

 

When you wouldn't go after Celeste based on an old reads list (which as far as Turin knew was still current) I thought he was implying you two were in cahoots.

To be fair, Celeste is still pretty low, she's just in the middle of my mixed/nulls right now until I can sort her out.

 

 

Im to lazy to do colors atm

 

1. Shad ------ Town Lean, half green half grey.

2. Kaylee ---- No flippin idea.

3. Zander --- Town, dark green

4. Turin ----- Claimed Doc, not gonna fight it on D1, if hes lying we will figure it out later

5. Pizza ----- Town, Dark Green

6. Csarmi --- Grey/light red, do something. Might vote you for the heck of it.

7. Laine ----- town lean, bout the same as Shad but some more green

8. Leno ------ Hai

9. Wish-tree - I feel one of Wish/Celeste is scum, leaning towards Celeste

10. Pralaya -- Post, tempted to vote you with Nolder just for the heck of it

11. Celeste -- Scum for the day imo

12. Nolder --- As I said, dont think he can last. If hes scum he will only get scummier, if he is town he will stay town or get townier. Currently think hes town

13. Cass (with Cory mentoring) - Think town, but with a Cory Mentor who knows. I forgot Cory was mentoring her until now when I checked the front so yay. Tricks

 

[v]Celeste[/v]

 

Right back to stage one. Gonna go back and get the quotes that stood out to me for Celeste.

 

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

Looks like I have more reading to do.

[Lenlo]

Lenlo I really suggest you read Raganorak for differences in my play. I was a godfather in that game hydrating with Wish. We are different this game.

I was in Raganorak. I was 3/4 on my WTL in that game if I remember right to.

 

 

Looks like I have more reading to do.

I loved them!

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

I'm your main accuser. I want to know if I'm town or scum soon.

 

You should be able to categorize me now. I need to not be null on your list before D1 ends.

 

This comment is strange Pizza as youre in the exact same situation with me.

 

Similar but not the same, with enough differences that it's definitely not the same.

[Zander?]

 

 

I can appreciate that, being non-standard myself.

 

But the bottom line is I don't really care what someone's process is, as long as I think that's what they believe in.

 

Give you an example, a lot of veteran mafia players from my home site have a very different process from me.

 

One of them always voted abstain day one, and used the same smiley face. His idea was, without any data, he wasn't going to arbitrarily lynch someone.

 

Now, I disagree. I think you generate the data by talking and voting and pressuring and pushing and looking for villagers and clearing them and pushing on your suspects until you can clear or condemn them.

 

I think day one is far too useful and far too crucial a time period to waste. But dude didn't believe in any of that and he was as stubborn as his D1 abstain vote.

 

Another guy basically believed in bandwagoning with whoever he arbitrarily chose. Essentially making another villager (as odds are, they were a villager) a double-voter. That meant when villager 1 voted a scum, that scum was in deep doo-doo. It also handicapped his scum game because it made it less likely he could control his vote and protect his scum buddies from being lynched. And if he was still around late game without being resolved, well, he was toast. So usually people left him alone even though his process was as basic and predictable as they come. So the mafia would have to kill off one of them. Which is also pro-town. Now we don't have to resolve that question mark.

 

Still others believed in just voting and never moving their vote and never cased anyone. As a result, they usually survived to the late game since they were not especially threatening to the scums early game, and were dangerous scums as such. But they'd also have a lot of experience solving the end of the game. And he didn't really vary it up.

 

All of that is very different from what I do.

 

Zander's different from what I do. Past several town games he's essentially relentlessly posed questions and was paranoid about the things posted by a good 2/3rds of the player list. He'd also have, imo, way too many suspects, and he'd choose his villagers arbitrarily, from my standpoint. This is great for his scum game because he can pretty much get away with anything he wants. And it more or less guarantees he's being annoying to at least 1 or 2 scums early. If they get rattled easily or don't respond well to his pressure, it's possible they get lynched early.

 

It's good. I do things a little differently, but he clearly believes in his process.

 

Cass this game is picking at a lot of things I find completely null. Stuff that pretty much has to be null.

 

Dice lynched John Snow a couple games back on something he flat out admitted was null. But he believed in his principles, he wanted to vote John for that behavior.

 

This is stuff where you can even get the player to admit their own process is probably garbage. But they insist in believing in it.

 

Nolder did that thing which I feel is almost entirely null earlier with the cowboy hat question. And yet it's not making me go "THAT WILL NEVER FIND SCUM, YOU'RE JUST WASTING TIME" *BANG*

 

I have a funny feeling he believes he's getting something out of it. Maybe even just to stir the pot and generate reactions.

 

People have different processes. I have my own. But the biggest red flag for me is when I can't begin to believe someone thinks their suspect really is scum when they say that they've caught that person, and has no interest in getting them lynched.

 

Like, I believe Zander thought he caught me last game. I believed it a lot. He was giving off all the cocky swagger signs and he was seemingly devastated when it didn't work out. He likes to style all over his wolves. He wants to own their souls and laugh at them as they go down in flames.

 

He wants to own the result.

 

He doesn't want to lynch someone and go welp, it's your fault. And brush it off and keep going. He owned the result. He even owned the consequences when I told him he needed to do X or I'd shoot him, he was like, do it, I'm not scared.

 

And I went and established that I don't make idle threats. And yadda yadda.

 

So I believe his belief in things. Now he can believe in my principles about villaging. And we understand each other better and know how to avoid that mistake on both sides in the future.

 

With Turin, I don't really feel like he's done anything with a good 3/4 of the game material that I've analyzed from him, and i've read the rest without going into it very deeply. There wasn't much else.

 

I don't feel like he wants to own the result of his findings.

 

Now he's willing to hop onto Wish who he had as null because Zander pushed a case. It just seems like a great place to park a vote now that the Shad wagon isn't taking off. I feel like he won't own that case. It will be all on Zander, and he will be able to justify it because Zander did all the work.

 

As I told him (post 1007), why isn't he doing his own work?

 

He's been skating on one really thin push from the very early game and doing nothing really since. His leans list I'm rejecting as being real work.

 

He wants to redo it and submit a better version of that with more reasons, words, citations, content, I'll take a look at it and so should everyone else.

 

That's where I am.

 

Turin the villager can village his way out of the hurdle I've placed in front of him. If he cares, if he believes in his process, if he's a villager.

 

If he's a wolf, folks need to take notice of him very carefully from here on out.

 

 

 

A few things here:

 

First: I want it know that it hurt my brain greatly to read all these words.

 

Second: Imagine if me and Pizza merged into 1 single player and you all had to go through my post count with each being a small novel.......lolololololololol........glgl

 

Third: "Like, I believe Zander thought he caught me last game. I believed it a lot. He was giving off all the cocky swagger signs and he was seemingly devastated when it didn't work out. He likes to style all over his wolves. He wants to own their souls and laugh at them as they go down in flames.

He wants to own the result.

He doesn't want to lynch someone and go welp, it's your fault. And brush it off and keep going. He owned the result. He even owned the consequences when I told him he needed to do X or I'd shoot him, he was like, do it, I'm not scared."

 

You do know me pretty well brother!!!!

[Celeste]

 

Lenlo I really suggest you read Raganorak for differences in my play. I was a godfather in that game hydrating with Wish. We are different this game.

 

I was in Raganorak. I was 3/4 on my WTL in that game if I remember right to.

 

 

Looks like I have more reading to do.

 

I loved them!

Then you must remember that my focus was different. I was much more around to screw info and stick to one person here. My reads didn't have many nulls. Your wtl is wrong here.

[Nolder]

Ok I finally reread from page 40 to now.

Was pretty useful actually.

Sorry it took so long.

I stumbled around the house for a bit, made hot chocolate, read the news between pages, checked my email, etc.

So that's why it took longer than like 10 mins lol.

 

Now I have a few posts I want to reply to but you can talk to me in real time again.

[Lenlo]

 

 

Lenlo I really suggest you read Raganorak for differences in my play. I was a godfather in that game hydrating with Wish. We are different this game.

I was in Raganorak. I was 3/4 on my WTL in that game if I remember right to.

 

 

Looks like I have more reading to do.

I loved them!

Then you must remember that my focus was different. I was much more around to screw info and stick to one person here. My reads didn't have many nulls. Your wtl is wrong here.

 

Well apologies if I dont take your word for it. People can play differently and still be the same alignment. 

[wish-tree]

I'M HERE, PEEPS

 

I second reading the Ragnorak game. Also TUS. 

 

Zander, I don't have any obligation to prove to you I'm town. My only obligation is to scum hunt. 

 

I will make the reads list, because I'm so nice, though. :3

[Nolder]

 

 

I have to go do some chores now.

When I get back again I'll fully catch up and give some more thoughts.

WEW!

That took forever.

Ok guys I'm exhausted I'm going to sleep now sorry.

TTYL!

Nolder... this is useless for me trying to read you. So is your following post. Less joking, more working.

@Nolder, have you posted a reads list at all? Any raisons? Who you voting today?

 

Aw come on don't be a stick in the mud. It was just a little joke.

 

I have not posted a reads list. I have my reasons. I haven't decided I need to look over my notes.

[Zander?]

Guys, I'm here for a few hours at least but I'm going to be quiet. Refining my entire style under mentor direction, and it basically involves me starting a linear read from the beginning of the game and reporting back. 

 

OFC Im not one to doubt the wisdom of CoryGOAT :wub:   but changing your style mid game is prolly gonna cause more confusion that help imho.

[Kaylee]

 

1. Then why aren't you voting Wish if Zander's case made sense and you don't get the meta argument? What's holding you back from a solid read?

2. I did look at your ISO and you are giving her a lot of leeway, which I understand. I just wish I saw more explanation from you on your reads.

3. I'm okay with this.

4. Snippy. I've been a little buried in catching up so I haven't fully read all the current posts, just responded to things that have applied to me.

 

I think my problem with your posts is that I don't feel you're invested and so I'm not fully remembering them like I should. I don't know... something's just bothering me

1) I didn't say I didn't get the meta argument. I said Shad made a metà argument that made sense. At least that's what I wad getting at. That's why I'm conflicted on her.

 

2) Fair enough. I just don't make a lot of solid reads D1. It is what it is. Take our how you will. Unless someone does something really attending out anyways.

 

4) Not snippy. Remember text doest give tone. Just a realization. I'm up and responding to everything that stands out to me.

[Zander?]

 

Pizza: Scum hunting and overly good townish tone.

Cass: Reminds me of the two games I have played with her where we were both town. I haven't seen her as mafia but she is analyzing the thread and scum. 

Wish-tree: Gut vibe and the fact that is she is spewing how well she reads me. The only reservation I have is buddying. 

Laine: I want to see her post thoughts and I have a tiny voice in my head saying she is probably town.

Zander: He baffles me and honestly I don't know how to read him. His thought process of Wish/I read though is townish.

Csarmi: Need to see more of his posts/interact a bit.

Turin: Need to see more of his posts/interact a bit.

Leno: Absolutely null.

Shad: Confuses me a lot and just makes me switch reads a lot.

Kaylee: Confuses me a lot and just makes me switch reads a lot.

Nolder: Something about his question reminded me of Rustlemania. It just doesn't seem like he is town. Although he is fairly absent which makes him null.

Pralaya: Needs to post more but he also reminds me of his play in TUS.

If there's something I can clarify for you let me know. It's nice to see you stating to put in effort

 

 

 

FWIW- I dont know how much Id call this reads lists effort tbqh,

[Kaylee]

Zander: it wad more effort than I felt she'd given all game.

[Kaylee]

I don't want to rush a lynch. Looks like Wish, Celeste, Kaylee, and Csarmi are who everyone's recently talked about lynching. I'd go Nol too.

 

What are cases thoughts on these? Who should be lynched? I'm looking for more reason than POE.

[Celeste]

 

 

 

Lenlo I really suggest you read Raganorak for differences in my play. I was a godfather in that game hydrating with Wish. We are different this game.

 

I was in Raganorak. I was 3/4 on my WTL in that game if I remember right to.

 

 

Looks like I have more reading to do.

 

I loved them!

Then you must remember that my focus was different. I was much more around to screw info and stick to one person here. My reads didn't have many nulls. Your wtl is wrong here.

Well apologies if I dont take your word for it. People can play differently and still be the same alignment.

Why can't you just look over facts? All your doing really is sheeping a case you didn't even make.

[Kaylee]

Celeste: who should we lynch today and why?