[Advanced] Nightmare Before Christmas - Town Wins!

[Lenlo]

But its an ugly duck ;_;

[Nolder]

 

 

Len tab just flipped BVP in an ADVANCED game.

 

I think a vig is pretty much assured

Maybe there's a SK?

Maybe it's AJ?

 

We were just discussing how his words don't make sense as town or mafia.

 

 

His words made sense.  He's not town.

 

I don't think I've ever seen anyone just throw in the towel like that except on JN.

It doesn't make sense. Until Tab was lynched they were winning. Even with Tab lynched they're not exactly behind.

What would set him off like that? 

[Nolder]

Maybe AJ's team is comprised of 2 inactives? Tab and Thane?

 

In that case he should bus hard and go for the solo win...

 

Like really I've never known AJ to be a downer and just give in it doesn't make sense.

I refuse to believe it until I see it and if it's true I want to hear his explanation after the game because it's totally against what I know of his character as a person.

[Andrej]

It will all make sense in time.

[Lenlo]

I think there is a very simple way to solve this issue.

We kill the AJ

[Nolder]

Ok. Well if he wants to be cryptic I don't know that we have any other choice.

[鲍勃不是我的名字]

Maybe AJ's team is comprised of 2 inactives? Tab and Thane?

 

In that case he should bus hard and go for the solo win...

 

Like really I've never known AJ to be a downer and just give in it doesn't make sense.

I refuse to believe it until I see it and if it's true I want to hear his explanation after the game because it's totally against what I know of his character as a person.

 

 

It will all make sense in time.

 

My guess is he's pretending to be the Jester.

[Nolder]

IIRC Leelou doesn't like Jesters.

[Shad_]

Stop making me wonder if it's too good to be true.  -_-

[Lenlo]

Stop making me wonder if it's too good to be true.  -_-

Stop overthinking. Just do it.

[Shad_]

Jester seems like a silly role.  How hard can it be to get lynched if you want to?  Just orchestrate a major slip D1 and eat it.

[Shad_]

 

Stop making me wonder if it's too good to be true.  -_-

Stop overthinking. Just do it.

 

 

Shad will always overthink, and Shad will never not lynch AJ tomorrow if he survives the night.  But there is still work to be done.

[Shad_]

NotBob's almost certainly town.  I've seen him bus, but never like this, and when the chances of scum winning in that game got pretty bleak he became noticeably apathetic/trolly. 

[Lenlo]

Ill say it again for NotBob, hes either scum or really apathetic town.

[Shad_]

It will all make sense in time.

 

He hasn't gone away and he's making statements like this, so obviously something is up, but do you really think a town player puts himself in a position to be a mandatory lynch/vig?  I can think of exactly one situation where that gambit might serve a productive purpose, and it's only applicable during day phases.

[Shad_]

Ill say it again for NotBob, hes either scum or really apathetic town.

It's a matter of degrees. This is how scum!NotBob behaved as Godfather with the cop still alive in Alien after his second partner went down while town still had a few mislynches to spare:

 

 

 

Nice.

 

 

 

Nice.

But you voted the wrong person D=

 

To err is Truman?

 

 

Should have known.

 

Vote Shad

 

Trust me.

 

It's Shad.

 

 

Why Shad NB? please advise...

 

What do you think about people revealing their roles

has 2b

 

i'm VT.

 

 

 

Sorry, my southern came out. fml

 

Not a reason, NB. Is this POE? If so, why?

You from the south?

 

 

All roads lead to Shad. Lynch this scum.

 

So scummy.

 

Strange NK. Looks like I was wrong about Shad.

 

Hmmm.

 

 

 

We almost still lost because Darthe insisted there probably wasn't a Godfather. 

[BFG]

Lol, good job!

 

@Pizza re http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96267-advanced-nightmare-before-christmas-night-2/page-77?do=findComment&comment=3580630 and follow through

 

/shrug (short answer)

 

(long answer to follow)

 

1 & 2

 

At that stage of the day my vote isn't for pressure, nor is it needed to lynch somebody, pretty sure Lenlo put Snow in the lead and there was nobody around likely to switch to Tabor. The vote is a chance to put my opinion on record and that's pretty much it. In this case I was wrong.

 

And yes, I am aware that my voting is pretty terrible and generically scummy, I'm more conscious of it as mafia though. And it's definitely not a strategy. The best I can do is say I don't like voting without confidence and I especially don't like voting without context (at that point in time).

 

Your point about him not being around to claim is rubbish, none of the wagons were around to claim; Nolder was just absent, Tabor said she was heading into a meeting but nothing about missing deadline and Snow said he'd be back before deadline and wasn't, so either I vote without someone being around to claim or I don't vote at all. All 3 were in contention when they were last in thread (given that having any votes at all put you in contention) and chose to miss end of day and not claim previously, or missed it regardless. And BESIDES which, you're saying that my vote was irrelevant, so the whole claim thing is irrelevant anyway.

 

3

 

Deadline was midnight (I'm GMT), there are only so many days I'm staying up late given that my normal working hours are 9-5. I would have thought it was pretty obvious that I would have been looking at Tabor/Thane/Nolder/NB Day 2. Besides which I'm never a Night 1 NK amongst this group of people, that leaves vig shot as a possibility, except nobody was reading me scummy.

 

4

 

Busy weekend. The problem is being behind because my week was busier than expected :/ Tomorrows going to be pretty busy to, but after that maybe better.

 

5

 

/shrug - there's literally nothing to say to this. Zander was active town and his chief read just flipped mafia.

 

6 & 7

 

You don't see the difference between a 'town read pending reread' on you and 2 people who I'd just reread? At that point my read on AJ would have been the same as you. At that stage I hadn't read the rest of the thread, I had one post and a vote from checking the VC, so your point about 'bringing heat' is also null.

 

Again this just seems bizarre; why should you being an 'open' player have anything to do with anything about how I read you? Presumably you're an open player regardless of alignment (albeit you said you try not to make enemies when mafia), so the better read on you is going to come from rereading with known flips and is pretty much always going to be my stance on you. I've played with 'open' players before and am frequently fooled by them when they're mafia, it is a pro-town style of play (when town) and pro-mafia (because it reads as pro-town, when mafia - see pretty much any game Tommy played here, ever ). The things I'll 'judge' you on are consistency of involvement (as this is something that seems hard to maintain for 'open' players) and reads. Given you had 2 out of 3 of the mafia as your bottom 3 then I'm keeping you as town for now (and yes the for now is real, and also there to annoy you) and will re-evaluate if and when it's necessary. And if necessary the key things to note that while AJ is in your bottom 3 I don't recall you ever explaining your read on him, you haven't pushed either AJ or Tabor much, and have potentially been moving town below them to push instead.

 

On the scarcity of the read, at that point, I was hoping I'd have enough time over the weekend to read through fully and ideally reread in full to give full thoughts on everyone, not just you. That hasn't happened, so I can only give vague impressions still, which probably don't have a great deal of value.

 

Finally you finding me scummy doesn't come across as surprising. You found me scummy in Matrix for similar, if far less detailed, reasons /shrug

 

 

If you could explain what you mean by stalling that would be great

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Currently I'm tomorrow's lynch or possibly tonight's vig shot.

 

It doesn't matter, we need 5 clear people from the POE (barring shenanigans) Dice, Lenlo, Shad, NB and Pizza are all town a majority of the time, lynch, vig, peek amongst the rest of us and the game is probably solved.

 

Dice and Lenlo I've explained, there's nothing worrying from what I've read today.

 

Shad is a combination of meta, knowing I've caught him before (which makes me tinfoil less) and his push on AJ. I know that Shad has no problem hard bussing teammates, but AJ would be extremely unhappy with that situation.

 

NB has basically only voted mafia, I have no idea his opinion on bussing but this doesn't feel like it and mostly if he's mafia he hasn't even looked for a mislynch, that's generally really bad play I wouldn't expect from anyone experienced.

 

Pizza is the least confident of these, Tabor/AJ were 2 of his team and again, I don't think he's the sort of player to bus without reason, but I don't recall his pushing either of them or more importantly explaining why they were there.

 

 

 

 

AJ's outed himself

 

Thane's come in and given a list of reads without explanation. In his recent games as town he's been open about his thought process, in his most recent game as mafia e needed to be asked. but his follow up posts to his reads list read ok.

 

Nolder is missing relatively big events in thread. He missed Shad's voting EOD1 despite it being a significant talking point during Night 1. Equally, is that actually scummy? We just had a town miss an IC declaration and mafia 'miss' SHC I'm more confused by his play than anything.

 

 

 

Peek, vig, lynch amongst Nolder, Thane and myself and we should be ok :) until Tuesday this is the best/most I can do

 

 

 

 

Shad you asked about Nolder's meta, I suspect that was for me, but I don't have meta on Nolder. The last game I remember us playing was The Walking Dead 2/3? years ago, he was town and strong enough to be the N1 kill. This game isn't the same by a long shot, nor is it the same as AOL. Given that he's been under pressure all game I'm finding it difficult to get an opinion of his play.

 

And somehow it's 3.45 so I'll see you tomorrow

[Shad_]

Gun to my head I'd say Nolder is the final scum.

 

I'll look into it once Ollie goes to bed.

This is what caught my eye.

 

Nolder, you've been a lot more involved in this game than I remember in AoL, and a lot more willing to butt heads with people, and the meta side of me wants to say you're not going to look this different in two scum games that happen in close proximity.

 

But that's really the only thing you have going for you in my mind.  It was enough for me to back off of you earlier, but you're still, ah, continuing to do things that really don't make sense to me and possibly fit a scum agenda. 

 

Please try to explain this progression to me:

 

 

 

FWIW I still think Shad is town.

5. Laine Shad - town

I don't like my interactions with Shad, in fact I got quite mad at him before, but I don't think he's mafia.

If it's between him and me I choose me but if it's not...then I'd rather lynch almost anyone else.

Shad I'm gonna be honest here, your posts are really long and boring when it comes to AJ.

I already think you're wrong about him based on my own read so my eyes just glaze over when I try to read your case.

I'll read it eventually, maybe, if it becomes relevant in like 3 game days. But if you want me to pay attention now could you shrink it or summarize it or something?

I am skimming an ISO of each player, here's my thoughts.

Gonna skip Shad for now...

I'm going to do Shad separately if I get the chance since he's case is more unique.

I've got to split it between him and Alanna and Shad has a lot of posts to go through which I'm not really in the mood for right now to be honest, even with skimming.

AJ

 

Dice

 

 

Lenlo

 

Pizza

 

Thane

 

 

NotBob

 

Shad

 

BFG

That's where I'm at right now.

Granted I haven't ISO'd Shad yet like I said I would so my first choice for lynch is BFG.

Everyone else I feel OK about or better.

 

I would like to see a more concise case on AJ because Shad's was long and confusing and put me to sleep.

 

 

[Shad_]

@Pizza re http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96267-advanced-nightmare-before-christmas-night-2/page-77?do=findComment&comment=3580630 and follow through

o_O I apparently skipped that entire page. Probably missed some content on either end of it too. Yay more catch-up. -_-

[Nolder]

There was a good 6+ months I didn't play on DM at all this year.

And when I did I don't know if I played with BFG or not so she might be telling the truth regarding us not playing together for a couple years.

I dunno for sure though.

[Nolder]

 

Gun to my head I'd say Nolder is the final scum.

 

I'll look into it once Ollie goes to bed.

This is what caught my eye.

 

Nolder, you've been a lot more involved in this game than I remember in AoL, and a lot more willing to butt heads with people, and the meta side of me wants to say you're not going to look this different in two scum games that happen in close proximity.

 

But that's really the only thing you have going for you in my mind.  It was enough for me to back off of you earlier, but you're still, ah, continuing to do things that really don't make sense to me and possibly fit a scum agenda. 

 

Please try to explain this progression to me:

 

 

 

FWIW I still think Shad is town.

5. Laine Shad - town

I don't like my interactions with Shad, in fact I got quite mad at him before, but I don't think he's mafia.

If it's between him and me I choose me but if it's not...then I'd rather lynch almost anyone else.

Shad I'm gonna be honest here, your posts are really long and boring when it comes to AJ.

I already think you're wrong about him based on my own read so my eyes just glaze over when I try to read your case.

I'll read it eventually, maybe, if it becomes relevant in like 3 game days. But if you want me to pay attention now could you shrink it or summarize it or something?

I am skimming an ISO of each player, here's my thoughts.

Gonna skip Shad for now...

I'm going to do Shad separately if I get the chance since he's case is more unique.

I've got to split it between him and Alanna and Shad has a lot of posts to go through which I'm not really in the mood for right now to be honest, even with skimming.

AJ

 

Dice

 

 

Lenlo

 

Pizza

 

Thane

 

 

NotBob

 

Shad

 

BFG

That's where I'm at right now.

Granted I haven't ISO'd Shad yet like I said I would so my first choice for lynch is BFG.

Everyone else I feel OK about or better.

 

I would like to see a more concise case on AJ because Shad's was long and confusing and put me to sleep.

 

 

 

"Nolder, you've been a lot more involved in this game than I remember in AoL, and a lot more willing to butt heads with people, and the meta side of me wants to say you're not going to look this different in two scum games that happen in close proximity."

 

I don't remember AoL at all. How long ago was it now?

 

Anyway as far as progression I already said I don't think I can explain it in any satisfactory way. It's just a bad feeling mostly mixed with POE.

Everyone else I feel better about and I (mostly) have reasons for that. I don't feel good about your gameplay anymore even if I can't point to why.

I liked how you entered the game and I liked Alanna but both of those things were awhile ago. Since then I just haven't liked anything about your gameplay.

 

Let me be clear, as far as I remember there's nothing scummy about it, I just don't like it.

I said this before but it's worth repeating: everyone in this game is playing a clean game (recent AJ antics aside).

Otherwise we'd be seeing some real cases and not meta cases or inactivity cases.

[Nolder]

Shad I'll make you a deal. Can please restate your case on AJ and maybe trim it a bit so it's more readable (I'll ask for details if I think I need them)?

 

In return I'll do your/Alanna's ISO and try to piece together an actual case tomorrow.

That's RL tomorrow not game tomorrow. 

 

You don't have to do it right now or even go first but let's both try to do our thing tomorrow.

Ok?

[Shad_]

I don't hate that answer.

 

Age of Legends started September 1st. You were scum and I bailed you out of a lynch at one point, but POE ate you.

[Lenlo]

What does PoE mean?

[Shad_]

Shad I'll make you a deal. Can please restate your case on AJ and maybe trim it a bit so it's more readable (I'll ask for details if I think I need them)?

 

In return I'll do your/Alanna's ISO and try to piece together an actual case tomorrow.

That's RL tomorrow not game tomorrow. 

 

You don't have to do it right now or even go first but let's both try to do our thing tomorrow.

Ok?

I can try. I'm kind of demotivated to put more work into him at this point, with him outright claiming scum. I'm not going to go through and pull up the reasons I was suspicious on D1, because it's 11:30 already and I'd like to work on some non-game stuff yet tonight, but you're looking for something concise anyway. Yeah, I can try to do that. I want to soak in the page I missed this morning and BFG's reply to it first.