[Advanced] Nightmare Before Christmas - Town Wins!

[鲍勃不是我的名字]

 

 

 

LOA for the next day or so...have to head to College Station for a graduation...

Will you be back on the weekend?

 

 

Intermittent the next 36 hours.  If that is too much...Leelou can replace me.

 

 

I can't. 

 

 

Good.  I'd rather stay but I'm limited to my phone plus some beer drinking.  I can post so Zander can see how its done.

[鲍勃不是我的名字]

 

 

 

LOA for the next day or so...have to head to College Station for a graduation...

Will you be back on the weekend?

 

 

Intermittent the next 36 hours.  If that is too much...Leelou can replace me.

 

That's not too bad. Day hasn't even started yet.

I think it'll be fine.

 

 

Trust me...when I sign up...I contribute...just wanted everyone to know.

[Shad_]

 

I really really hate bringing this up because i truly hate it but if I get NK'd tonight it needs to be said.  Tab was online and checking this thread at least 3 times this afternoon and evening that i saw.  I didnt wanna bring it up cause I thought the lynch was gonna go that way but...it didn't.  I follow things quite closely while playing hence why I switched my sign in to anonymous round Bellicheat.

 

I'm sorry to bring it up Tab but it's the truth.

 

Don't apologise, it's the truth. I kind of hoped I'd go, as I won't have next to any time to commit to the game until after Friday due to sudden work commitments, and the best I could give you as a rebuttal yesterday was "Don't bother, I'm town".

 

And all I can give you this morning is that I don't feel good about Nolder, Lenlo and Thane, based on their interactions yesterday. I didn't like the way Nolder called out Thane as his very first game related post, putting words in his mouth, and continued to kind of go after him but allowing for his inactivity because he said he wouldn't be around much until D2. Then Nolder's back and forth with Lenlo felt off, both Nolder's pushing Len from the beginning (his post about fence sitting in the same first game related post about Thane), and Lenlo's skirting issues by saying things like "I dunno, like, I sometimes worry that he is hiding something behind all those words. I know its stupid, which is why I havnt even tried to build a case or anything off of it, but its in the back of my mind every time I read him."

 

One of Nolder and Lenlo is probably scum.

 

Red is pretty weak if she's scum.

[Zander?]

 

 

 

 

LOA for the next day or so...have to head to College Station for a graduation...

Will you be back on the weekend?

 

 

Intermittent the next 36 hours.  If that is too much...Leelou can replace me.

 

 

I can't. 

 

 

Good.  I'd rather stay but I'm limited to my phone plus some beer drinking.  I can post so Zander can see how its done.

 

 

 

lolololololololol

[Zander?]

 

 

I really really hate bringing this up because i truly hate it but if I get NK'd tonight it needs to be said.  Tab was online and checking this thread at least 3 times this afternoon and evening that i saw.  I didnt wanna bring it up cause I thought the lynch was gonna go that way but...it didn't.  I follow things quite closely while playing hence why I switched my sign in to anonymous round Bellicheat.

 

I'm sorry to bring it up Tab but it's the truth.

 

Don't apologise, it's the truth. I kind of hoped I'd go, as I won't have next to any time to commit to the game until after Friday due to sudden work commitments, and the best I could give you as a rebuttal yesterday was "Don't bother, I'm town".

 

And all I can give you this morning is that I don't feel good about Nolder, Lenlo and Thane, based on their interactions yesterday. I didn't like the way Nolder called out Thane as his very first game related post, putting words in his mouth, and continued to kind of go after him but allowing for his inactivity because he said he wouldn't be around much until D2. Then Nolder's back and forth with Lenlo felt off, both Nolder's pushing Len from the beginning (his post about fence sitting in the same first game related post about Thane), and Lenlo's skirting issues by saying things like "I dunno, like, I sometimes worry that he is hiding something behind all those words. I know its stupid, which is why I havnt even tried to build a case or anything off of it, but its in the back of my mind every time I read him."

 

One of Nolder and Lenlo is probably scum.

 

Red is pretty weak if she's scum.

 

 

 

Straight up Shad, even taking number of posts out of the discussion, and watching and not responding out.  Do you see a world where Town!Tab, plays this way, reasons she makes, makes her reads (like the one where I thought it looked like a little TMI) ANYTHING AT ALL like the way she has been?

 

It is absolutely NOTHING like any of her Town games.

[dicetosser1]

@Len just throw this out there for me.  Who do you think is the BEST candidate for Deep Wolf?

 

Actually I'd like everyone to weigh in on this.

 

AJ  or Pizza

 

 

@Len just throw this out there for me.  Who do you think is the BEST candidate for Deep Wolf?

 

Actually I'd like everyone to weigh in on this.

The BEST candidate for a deepwolf? Well it would have to be in Pizza, Dice, Aj, Shad, Myself or you.

 

Im not scum. Your working with me to much so I dont think your scum. I dont think Dice could pull it off. So that leaves Pizza, AJ or Shad. Out of those... Shad probably. I dont like nor trust how EoD went down yesterday yet everyone still seems to LOCK-Town him.

 

 

im insulted

[Shad_]

 

Saying that someone is intentionally misinforming and saying that someone is lying mean the same thing. I can't believe I am actually having this conversation again.

It's about the method. The end result is the same but the way you get there is different.

For example telling a lie vs lying by omission.

 

The 'follow through' question was an out. You did something that struck me as pretty blatantly contradictory: you called Pizza out for intentionally misrepping something, then said you hadn't made up your mind on him yet. This means that either 1) the accusation was a reaction test, 2) you thought he might be town intentionally lying, or else 3) you are not thinking through what you're saying at all. The first two are significantly more likely to stem from a town state of mind than the third.

 

I went down the line without telling you what a 'townie' response would look like in my mind ahead of time. I treated it as a test, and that confused you. Check. I asked what made you think he might be town intentionally lying. You refused to answer for a while and then said you never thought that. Check. So you are either scum or a highly razzled town prone to losing focus any time you're under pressure.

Well there's where your whole test falls apart.

I never said he was lying. You seem to think distorting means lying.

They're similar words but they mean different things.

Which is why they're different.

 

Lrn2English

 

I still don't understand. You plainly stated that it was intentional. You can split hairs over the definition of a "lie", but intentional implies intent.

 

 

 

You asked a question with an extremely obvious correct answer. I treated it as rhetorical, but you brought it up again, so I gave the incorrect answer.

Of course it was rhetorical.

But you refused to play ball and allow me to make my point.

You chose to be obstinate.

 

Your reaction was to say that I am blowing you off because I wanted you to answer my question first, and that I'm being disrespectful. This doesn't make much sense to me. You either thought I might sincerely believe the 'wrong' answer, thought that only scum would give the 'wrong' answer, or it was a purely rhetorical question and my answer didn't matter. You aren't following through with any of these options, instead twisting it into a personal attack. This is another example, as Lenlo would point out, of "running away" from the discussion. But I struggle to wrap my head around why you would be doing this as either alignment. Perhaps the 'constantly feigning confusion' scum meta that had been presented earlier? I just don't remember your confusion tactic for deflecting attention being so... hostile, in your last scum game.

It's because I'm not scum.

And I never believed for a second you actually believed that but if you were going to even bother to pretend like you did I wasn't going to waste my time arguing about it.

 

Do you consider me outed scum whose curiosity concerning your thought process is necessarily artificial, or do you have zero interest in allowing anyone in this game to develop a read on you? You act as though I am preventing you from making some point, but when given the opportunity to make it you refuse. This leads ~every town reading your posts to believe that you never had a point in the first place.

I refuse now yes.

If you wanted to hear my point why did you do what you did in the first place?

For giggles?

 

Don't pretend like you want so badly to know my point so you could get a read on me when you purposely tried to block my rhetoric in the first place.

 

If people are going to judge ME negatively for that then so be it.

More the fool them for not seeing why I'm so damn frustrated in the first place.

 

 

 

Look at this from my perspective.  I don't know your alignment.  I want to know your alignment.  I attempt to unravel this by asking you questions.  You've pretty persistently refused to play ball, instead trying to fight me off and push suspicion back onto me by claiming that I don't really want to know the information I'm asking for.  That is an irrational thing for town to do.  I don't know if maybe you're looking for a particular reaction out of me?  But I don't get that impression.

 

This tactic is modestly effective for scum in the short term, as it forces me to balance the immediate appearance of scum overreacting to pressure with the possibility that you really are town taking suspicion personally and don't recognize that this is a game of Mafia.  I've seen the former enough to hesitate, but at the end of the day I will always lynch the twtbaw over the guy who's town telling.  I don't know how better to put this: your pattern of responding to questions with why you shouldn't have to answer them/why you think you're being asked them rather answers will get you lynched.  Lynching you might help me, or it might hurt me, but you lose either way.

[Shad_]

*latter

[Lenlo]

Im all for Lynching Nolder and I am glad you are seeing what ive been seeing Shad.

[Zander?]

Tab first Nolder second

[Shad_]

 

 

They'll definitely be on the block for D2 imo

 

Sorry I've been scarce. I was a bit irritated after the reveal yesterday so I just spent my time putting in more work on the house. I have quite a bit of reading to do whenever I find the time but that'll have to wait for tonight

 

This is hands-down the most 'scarce' game I have seen you in.  :\

 

 

Ya i completely agree here but do you feel its alignment indicative of him?

 

 

Inactivity, no.  He was inactive for a long stretch of Star Wars and IIRC he was playing to win with town.  Passivity, maybe.  I want to ISO him before night ends and see if my gut feeling matches up with what he's actually said or if I just overlooked a lot in my long catch-up.

 

He's always been town with me outside of US, and he's always been pretty boisterous and opinionated.  I've misread him a time or two because I thought his opinions were scummy, but here I feel like he hasn't really had many.  It's a different sort of cause for concern.  Again though, I don't think it's fair for me to pass judgment until I've ISO'd him.  I would say I'm concerned but not yet properly informed.

 

[Zander?]

If I had a PR role that allowed it I'd sort AJ out one way or the other tonight.

[Shad_]

Pizzaguy's "we're boned" rule: Players not voting are usually town, if they had a chance to vote. Scum rarely don't put down a vote unless they are literally afk most of the round.

Better talk with your missus on that one.

[Shad_]

This rush of posts at the end, and the timing of them, the specific vote, the question she asked Zander with literally 1 minute left in the round, indicates that her psychological state was not normal. It indicates she was under stress.

 

It doesn't have to mean that Tabor was scum. They could be townies, but BFG was skating all round, and might have been having trouble finding a place to put a vote, and couldn't explain away not voting. So, she was compelled to place a vote, as scums often feel compelled to do so, and I don't buy that that final question she posed to Zander was something she was doing for any reason other than flat out stalling and padding her participation near the end.

 

It's basically an attempt to divert attention away from what she was doing.

 

BFG was looking forward to playing with me this game, and she's done nothing with me, basically. She's afraid of getting into an entanglement with me.

 

She's hiding, she's stressed, and she's feeling guilty.

 

She's total scum and needs to die 100% of the time this game. Never, ever, ever, ever let her survive this game. She's essentially caught.

 

This overrides everything else she did today.

I strongly disagree with a lot of this for reasons that you might lack the meta to appreciate, but I would very much like to see how she responds before I offer a defense.

[Nolder]

I still don't understand. You plainly stated that it was intentional. You can split hairs over the definition of a "lie", but intentional implies intent.

This goes back to the point you refused to allow me to make.

In all honesty if you can't figure it out I really don't care.

I'm feeling petty and I'd rather be lynched over it than explain it now.

 

Look at this from my perspective.  I don't know your alignment.  I want to know your alignment.  I attempt to unravel this by asking you questions.  You've pretty persistently refused to play ball, instead trying to fight me off and push suspicion back onto me by claiming that I don't really want to know the information I'm asking for.  That is an irrational thing for town to do.  I don't know if maybe you're looking for a particular reaction out of me?  But I don't get that impression.

This is very much a game of information sharing.

It's why lurkers are so dangerous because they take in everything and give so little.

The way you get information is by reciprocating when the time comes.

I was happy to answer your questions...until you shut me down.

You wanted to take take take but give nothing.

So now I have no interest in proving myself to you nor do I care to suss you out.

You're being difficult so I don't want to waste my time on you.

I'd rather talk to Dice or Xander or even Nomi at this point.

You want to know my alignment? Figure it out from other conversations I have.

From this point on I am done with you for this game.

It may not seem like it but you really pissed me off and I can't say what I want because I'll just get Verbal on my ass threatening to ban me so take it for what it is and remember not to just shut people down when they're trying to make a point in the future.

 

your pattern of responding to questions with why you shouldn't have to answer them/why you think you're being asked them rather answers will get you lynched.  Lynching you might help me, or it might hurt me, but you lose either way.

I'm not scared of being lynched.

I'll call out who I think is scum to the best of my knowledge and then I'll be dead.

It's what townies do. Only scum is afraid of being lynched this early.

[Shad_]

After reading Nomi's WoT I feel pretty much the same about him, and that's that he's almost certainly town but I would never trust him through to end-game after getting Cory'd in Matrix.

 

AJ is a peek option, or one of Nolder/Tab and if blue lynch the other.  AJ has the capacity to resolve himself, but maybe also the capacity to fool us for the long haul.  Nolder and Tab are in a pretty bad spot for non-mechanical resolution.

[Zander?]

We lynch Tab tomorrow 100% of the time.

[Shad_]

 

 

I still don't understand. You plainly stated that it was intentional. You can split hairs over the definition of a "lie", but intentional implies intent.

This goes back to the point you refused to allow me to make.

In all honesty if you can't figure it out I really don't care.

I'm feeling petty and I'd rather be lynched over it than explain it now.

 

Look at this from my perspective.  I don't know your alignment.  I want to know your alignment.  I attempt to unravel this by asking you questions.  You've pretty persistently refused to play ball, instead trying to fight me off and push suspicion back onto me by claiming that I don't really want to know the information I'm asking for.  That is an irrational thing for town to do.  I don't know if maybe you're looking for a particular reaction out of me?  But I don't get that impression.

This is very much a game of information sharing.

It's why lurkers are so dangerous because they take in everything and give so little.

The way you get information is by reciprocating when the time comes.

I was happy to answer your questions...until you shut me down.

You wanted to take take take but give nothing.

So now I have no interest in proving myself to you nor do I care to suss you out.

You're being difficult so I don't want to waste my time on you.

I'd rather talk to Dice or Xander or even Nomi at this point.

You want to know my alignment? Figure it out from other conversations I have.

From this point on I am done with you for this game.

It may not seem like it but you really pissed me off and I can't say what I want because I'll just get Verbal on my ass threatening to ban me so take it for what it is and remember not to just shut people down when they're trying to make a point in the future.

 

your pattern of responding to questions with why you shouldn't have to answer them/why you think you're being asked them rather answers will get you lynched.  Lynching you might help me, or it might hurt me, but you lose either way.

I'm not scared of being lynched.

I'll call out who I think is scum to the best of my knowledge and then I'll be dead.

It's what townies do. Only scum is afraid of being lynched this early.

 

 

 

Who thinks this is an authentic town reaction?  People get offended for weird and obscure reasons. People also fake offense because doing so works. The AtE is on the table.  Someone besides me and Lenlo do some dissecting please.

[Shad_]

Nomi's thoughts on my night exchange with Nolder would be awesome.

[Zander?]

 

I still don't understand. You plainly stated that it was intentional. You can split hairs over the definition of a "lie", but intentional implies intent.

This goes back to the point you refused to allow me to make.

In all honesty if you can't figure it out I really don't care.

I'm feeling petty and I'd rather be lynched over it than explain it now.

 

Look at this from my perspective.  I don't know your alignment.  I want to know your alignment.  I attempt to unravel this by asking you questions.  You've pretty persistently refused to play ball, instead trying to fight me off and push suspicion back onto me by claiming that I don't really want to know the information I'm asking for.  That is an irrational thing for town to do.  I don't know if maybe you're looking for a particular reaction out of me?  But I don't get that impression.

This is very much a game of information sharing.

It's why lurkers are so dangerous because they take in everything and give so little.

The way you get information is by reciprocating when the time comes.

I was happy to answer your questions...until you shut me down.

You wanted to take take take but give nothing.

So now I have no interest in proving myself to you nor do I care to suss you out.

You're being difficult so I don't want to waste my time on you.

I'd rather talk to Dice or Xander or even Nomi at this point.

You want to know my alignment? Figure it out from other conversations I have.

From this point on I am done with you for this game.

It may not seem like it but you really pissed me off and I can't say what I want because I'll just get Verbal on my ass threatening to ban me so take it for what it is and remember not to just shut people down when they're trying to make a point in the future.

 

your pattern of responding to questions with why you shouldn't have to answer them/why you think you're being asked them rather answers will get you lynched.  Lynching you might help me, or it might hurt me, but you lose either way.

I'm not scared of being lynched.

I'll call out who I think is scum to the best of my knowledge and then I'll be dead.

It's what townies do. Only scum is afraid of being lynched this early.

 

 

 

 

If you think I'm scummy I'd rather you waste the day one lynch on me than string me along for days and then do it.

 

I'm not going to get any townier than I am right now.

AtE this early isn't good.

 

 

 

It you didnt make this post ^^^^^  I may have thought frustrated towny.  If you didnt use a lot of AtE type posts yourself most all game I may have thought frustrated towny.  However since both of those things DID happen, I apologize if I wrong but I'm declining to buy it brother.

[Shad_]

Never ever scan me tonight, you will regret it just like last game.

[Lenlo]

*Twiddles thumbs*

This would be alot more interesting if more than 4 people talked.

[Shad_]

Think Nolder's frustrated because his scum mate Tab isn't participating in the game?

[Shad_]

:rolleyes:

[Lenlo]

So the top four posters make up 56% of the thread. Yeah...