[Standard] The Matrix Reloaded - Game Over

Zander? · November 4, 2015

Yates also made a joke about him and Lenlo being masons very early on D1

I can just see Wolf!Yates making that post thinking "well, if one of us flips wolf, the other will be clear because we'd 'never claim that' after what happened in Star Wars / etc / the 'lynch all masons' meme that has happened since"

Just seems like an intentionally-tricksy sort of thing that rubbed me the wrong way

GIF-Loki-vs.-Hulk.gif?gs=a

ZANDER SMASH!!!!!!

Cory Caboose · November 4, 2015

AFAICT Tab is doing exactly what she was doing in the Ragnarok game; was present and posting thoughts early and then dropped off significantly later. She was 3P that game, so I have literally no clue what that means to her alignment this game.
She was playing to help the Town catch scum, fwiw. I don't know if she linked the QT or not publicly and it's up to her if she wants to share our private conversations in there. But really I don't think she HAS to for you to assume that this is the truth. I mean, she could only win if she was the last person alive so she absolutely needed to kill scum and that was her primary objective.

That's not what I'm saying. There are probably still different patterns of behavior in different roles and I don't know what Mafia!Tab looks like so I can't really assume either way.

You were just in her head - what's your read on Tab this game?

Yates · November 4, 2015

Yates also made a joke about him and Lenlo being masons very early on D1

I can just see Wolf!Yates making that post thinking "well, if one of us flips wolf, the other will be clear because we'd 'never claim that' after what happened in Star Wars / etc / the 'lynch all masons' meme that has happened since"

Just seems like an intentionally-tricksy sort of thing that rubbed me the wrong way

Could also just be a joke. And Lenlo could also be telling the truth. These are universes that exist without tinfoil.

Zander? · November 4, 2015

I lost to Monk.

I don't want to talk about it.

i lost Bell my only good player to IR

i dont wanna talk about it

but i need a great RB and will give you someone on my crappy team for one!!!!

Shad_ · November 4, 2015

[v]Rack[/v]

But I could also go Dice.

but in a previous post you said you felt better about Dice, had Dice an Thane as your top 2 scum reads (also mentioned they werent likely w/w iyo) and and you wanna vote Rack (fyi=Flipped Town) and dont mention Thane....

She had said something to the effect of Lenlo/Rack being a w/w possibility earlier. Vote came when Rack had 4 votes, Lenlo had 1, Dice and Thane had none. So without delving into whether I think her thoughts were honest or not, the vote didn't come out of nowhere.

Clovdyx · November 4, 2015

Yates, why are you voting Cory?

Sili Quirrels · November 4, 2015

Just bcause ur involved in the game doesnt mean u shld be offended by zander being obnoxious on an island on pg 27

You... Personal involvement. Emotional involvement. Meaning if hes a donkey to me, maybe just maybe that bugs me and makes me angry at him. What im saying is I dont think thats alignment indicative, which is what your using it for.

I feel your being purposely obtuse.

Right, first, being called a donkey offends me.

Also, the argument (keep in mind I wasn't prepared to act on it) was you were offended by Zander's play style before he seriously went after you. It was page 27, right, and scumreading you and the joke in the thread were separate as far as I could tell on my phone. Of course I may be wrong because I started reading midway through page 25. I'd welcome being corrected on this because if he was tunneling you and being obnoxious about it, maybe you have a point. However, even so, for you to chastise him 20 minutes after yates chastised him, after a mere 27 pages of content which is hardly enough time to tunnel anyone, I assume he is either right about something, or you're tilted. Perhaps both because both Rack and I went after you.

Sili Quirrels · November 4, 2015

By the by, you were really offended by my argument even though in the post you responded to I didn't make a big deal out of it.

Kind of similar to how you overreacted to Zander, no?

Yates · November 4, 2015

You were just in her head - what's your read on Tab this game?

I felt okay. But I'd have to look back at our QT [ie. cheat] and then read her ISO through that filter. Sounds like a lot of effort.

Sili Quirrels · November 4, 2015

@Shad, I didn't explain myself because I was on the phone

Yates · November 4, 2015

Yates, why are you voting Cory?

Because he's a Cancer? (Or was it Gemini???) [i kid! I kid!]

But also mostly for reasons you may have just talked me out of.

Zander? · November 4, 2015

[v]Rack[/v]

But I could also go Dice.

but in a previous post you said you felt better about Dice, had Dice an Thane as your top 2 scum reads (also mentioned they werent likely w/w iyo) and and you wanna vote Rack (fyi=Flipped Town) and dont mention Thane....

She had said something to the effect of Lenlo/Rack being a w/w possibility earlier. Vote came when Rack had 4 votes, Lenlo had 1, Dice and Thane had none. So without delving into whether I think her thoughts were honest or not, the vote didn't come out of nowhere.

i was hoping she was gonna respond to this....

Shad_ · November 4, 2015

Don't even feel like slow rolling it. BFG and I used to be very amicable - something beyond dead now - but if she were a wolf at this point her treatment of me would be in cruelty territory because she knows how rattled and upset I get playing this dumb game. I highly doubt she's suddenly developed a cruelty streak because she's a nice person at heart and that's always what I've admired about her, so I don't think she's capable of pushing it this far. Regardless of how wrong it is, she believes what she is saying.
???

Is this real? Because this translates to me as "if you guys start calling me scum I might cry." And that doesn't sound real. That sounds like an AtE. Can you point to a recent game where this was a real thing?

Edit to add: there are a LOT of these emotional plea type posts - including that band aid jpg - that are coming across as an emotional plea rather than Cory defending or explaining things. And that also feels very very forced.

Zander and BFG - I have a question:

Zander, talk to me about something that doesn't have ANYTHING to do with Lenlo? I'm pretty sure I asked you this before, but I'm genuinely struggling to come up with any push you've tried to make besides him.

....um have you seen anything Ive posted about Dice??

i posted a question just a short while ago..

waiting for someone to ask me about it....

you guys wanna know a secret??

BFG GOAT!!!

:wub:

YOU WANNA KNOW ANOTHER REASON IM SURE DICE IS SCUM

YOU NOTICE DICE HAS HARDLY PUSHED BACK AT ME FOR SUSSING HIM AND HASHARDLY REPLIED TO MY COMMENTS ON HIM....TOWN!DICE NEVER WOULD DO THAT.

hes trying to avoid drawing more heat on him.

I don't even know what you're saying here.

ok its like Town!Dice is in your face whether he's thinks someones scum or in defending himself.

i dont feel he's doing that at all here.

i havent seen that real in your face Dice yet.

ive been at him for awhile and hes only had a few responses and even those were kinda at half DIce imo. like maybe hes more invested as Town then as scum perhaps.

Am I wrong in thinking 99% of what you said about Town!Dice here also applies to Town!Cory? I'm just not sure how to apply these emotional posts/pleas to his meta. Like - is this more likely Town Cory or Scum Cory?

With all due respect to Cory, I can totally understand Yates' POV here.

I think I'll understand Cory a lot better once I know his alignment for certain, but until then I'm lumping this whole subject firmly into the null pile and basing my read on other things. But to the point: I don't think town!Yates would be any more hesitant to suss it than scum!Yates would be to exploit it.

Zander? · November 4, 2015

Just bcause ur involved in the game doesnt mean u shld be offended by zander being obnoxious on an island on pg 27

You... Personal involvement. Emotional involvement. Meaning if hes a donkey to me, maybe just maybe that bugs me and makes me angry at him. What im saying is I dont think thats alignment indicative, which is what your using it for.

I feel your being purposely obtuse.

Right, first, being called a donkey offends me.

Also, the argument (keep in mind I wasn't prepared to act on it) was you were offended by Zander's play style before he seriously went after you. It was page 27, right, and scumreading you and the joke in the thread were separate as far as I could tell on my phone. Of course I may be wrong because I started reading midway through page 25. I'd welcome being corrected on this because if he was tunneling you and being obnoxious about it, maybe you have a point. However, even so, for you to chastise him 20 minutes after yates chastised him, after a mere 27 pages of content which is hardly enough time to tunnel anyone, I assume he is either right about something, or you're tilted. Perhaps both because both Rack and I went after you.

i think hes calling me the Donkey....lololololol

cant hate that

Lenlo · November 4, 2015

By the by, you were really offended by my argument even though in the post you responded to I didn't make a big deal out of it.

Kind of similar to how you overreacted to Zander, no?

I wasnt offended with your argument Sili. Nowhere in there did you insult me, unless your using offended in a different way then I think you are.

I think your miss representing things here a tad bit btw.

Clovdyx · November 4, 2015

Yates, why are you voting Cory?
Because he's a Cancer? (Or was it Gemini???) [i kid! I kid!]

But also mostly for reasons you may have just talked me out of.

I'm assuming this is related to my big post about mindsets?

Zander? · November 4, 2015

Yates, why are you voting Cory?
Because he's a Cancer? (Or was it Gemini???) [i kid! I kid!]

But also mostly for reasons you may have just talked me out of.

im a Gemini

LOVE ME!!!!!!!

Yates · November 4, 2015

Yates, why are you voting Cory?
Because he's a Cancer? (Or was it Gemini???) [i kid! I kid!]

But also mostly for reasons you may have just talked me out of.

I'm assuming this is related to my big post about mindsets?

Yes.

Lenlo · November 4, 2015

What does tilted mean?

Also I wasnt calling you the Donkey, but im sorry if that bugs you. I am merely using it to avoid cursing as best I can, though this way I think im kinda skirting the spirit of the rule abit.

Shad_ · November 4, 2015

I don't mind the votes, but nobody else is allowed to vote him until he speaks. Declare your intention if you want, but there's something he might have to say.

I trust SOMEBODY knowsbwhat im talking about. If you do and you are not Lenlo, say nothing. Kthx

Did what you thought would happen happen?

Clovdyx · November 4, 2015

Don't even feel like slow rolling it. BFG and I used to be very amicable - something beyond dead now - but if she were a wolf at this point her treatment of me would be in cruelty territory because she knows how rattled and upset I get playing this dumb game. I highly doubt she's suddenly developed a cruelty streak because she's a nice person at heart and that's always what I've admired about her, so I don't think she's capable of pushing it this far. Regardless of how wrong it is, she believes what she is saying.
???

Is this real? Because this translates to me as "if you guys start calling me scum I might cry." And that doesn't sound real. That sounds like an AtE. Can you point to a recent game where this was a real thing?

Edit to add: there are a LOT of these emotional plea type posts - including that band aid jpg - that are coming across as an emotional plea rather than Cory defending or explaining things. And that also feels very very forced.

Zander and BFG - I have a question:

Zander, talk to me about something that doesn't have ANYTHING to do with Lenlo? I'm pretty sure I asked you this before, but I'm genuinely struggling to come up with any push you've tried to make besides him.

....um have you seen anything Ive posted about Dice??

i posted a question just a short while ago..

waiting for someone to ask me about it....

you guys wanna know a secret??

BFG GOAT!!!

:wub:

YOU WANNA KNOW ANOTHER REASON IM SURE DICE IS SCUM

YOU NOTICE DICE HAS HARDLY PUSHED BACK AT ME FOR SUSSING HIM AND HASHARDLY REPLIED TO MY COMMENTS ON HIM....TOWN!DICE NEVER WOULD DO THAT.

hes trying to avoid drawing more heat on him.

I don't even know what you're saying here.

ok its like Town!Dice is in your face whether he's thinks someones scum or in defending himself.

i dont feel he's doing that at all here.

i havent seen that real in your face Dice yet.

ive been at him for awhile and hes only had a few responses and even those were kinda at half DIce imo. like maybe hes more invested as Town then as scum perhaps.

Am I wrong in thinking 99% of what you said about Town!Dice here also applies to Town!Cory? I'm just not sure how to apply these emotional posts/pleas to his meta. Like - is this more likely Town Cory or Scum Cory?

With all due respect to Cory, I can totally understand Yates' POV here.

I think I'll understand Cory a lot better once I know his alignment for certain, but until then I'm lumping this whole subject firmly into the null pile and basing my read on other things. But to the point: I don't think town!Yates would be any more hesitant to suss it than scum!Yates would be to exploit it.

If Yates has never seen Town!Cory this way before, I think the bold is 100% spot on. I'd have to go back through their entire time playing together to check to make sure, though, and I don't care enough. So I'm going to accept it as true, on the principle that Yates probably wouldn't be that careless.

Shad_ · November 4, 2015

I considered myself, but threw that out cause I was an easy mislynch target. Considered Sili cause he was very active and seemed like someone who could be targeted for a kill. In the end I decided it was better to gamble on surviving longer and using it when the odds were more in my favor of protecting someone.

What made you initially consider yourself?

Clovdyx · November 4, 2015

I don't mind the votes, but nobody else is allowed to vote him until he speaks. Declare your intention if you want, but there's something he might have to say.

I trust SOMEBODY knowsbwhat im talking about. If you do and you are not Lenlo, say nothing. Kthx

Did what you thought would happen happen?

I didn't think it WAS going to happen, necessarily. I thought it was POSSIBLE. And no, it did not happen - hence me saying I didn't vouch him.

Shad_ · November 4, 2015

At any rate I need to jump back to page 120 or so and properly catch-up. Ollie's teething and super-needy so it's been easy for me to keep pace in the moment but I've been struggling to deal with what I miss while I'm offline. Yesterday was the first time I really had a few hours of undivided attention and I spent it on Lenlo. Going to try and read up but it's going to be a slow and highly distracted process.

And 9 hours later........

Yates · November 4, 2015

Some notes...

How Tabor thinks...

"I'm very new to this game and not very good at it!"

"My biggest problem is foot in mouth disease and giving scum an easy way to lynch me."

"I'm relieved with this role because, like you said, in many ways I am town, so I can very honestly help search for scum. My biggest problem is foot in mouth disease and giving scum an easy way to lynch me."

"I will likely need guidance when I have to actually make my cases, there were often things I said that others could make a case out of."

"I am having scum thoughts about Leelou, but not sure if I should actually make any posts that seem like cases against 1 person so early. Just that of anyone so far, her reasonings feel the weakest (apart from people who haven't posted). A lot of posts answering questions, but not contributing more than that, joke posts, but I don't know. It's very difficult on day one."

Me - "don't say anything about NA's until/unless you have to, imo."

Her - "Crud, I already did."

Me - "Crap - I mised that post about you targeting Cory. Oh well. Now you have to remember that lie for the rest of the game."

Her - "I have indeed written it down. I was just wary of being one of the people who didn't mention what they did."

Her - "Do you think Eld's eagerness to jump in there and say his action returned a mixed result too could be scummy? He's really quick, and could honestly be telling the truth as scum roles are mixed up too. I'm hesitant to mention it, though."

Me - "I think that's a good TOWN observation. I wouldn't be afraid to share with the rest of the class..."

[she didn't]

Her - "And this is the part that I am REALLY not good at, the second people gang up on you/pull your actions you didn't even realise looked that bad, and making a case for myself."

Me - "Listen. You aren't scum so this is easy. Just BE HONEST."

Her - "It just feels like no one cares/listens the second they have it in their head that they're after you."

"I know I'm not scum, I was thinking that it's interesting to see who looks like they COULD be going for the mislynch, bc to scum for all intents and purposes I am town."

Me - "So... sadly you painted yourself into a corner claiming you didn't submit any NA's. For future games where you are not Town, it is very important that you leave yourself as many "outs" as possible. That's about the last thing I can say."

Her - "I know. At the time I thought that was the safest bet, and had BFG been killed then it might have been. I think they're intent on hammering today, and I don't have the time this morning to make a case."

What I told her:

"A quick ISO tells me most of what I need to know. You have a positive and upbeat persona as Town. And that's good. This is a game, sure, but it's also a social environment. I would say to just play into that aspect because it will feed your natural instincts and keep you looking Town. You remind me of Hally, a bit, and she gets Town read fairly easily."

"Also, I disagree with Mish. Your goal as Town is to win, sure, but you do that BY surviving. That's why I always get ticked when people try to use "this person is too defensive" as an excuse to vote someone. I *ALWAYS* defend myself as Town. Then, you just have to make good choices at the end of the game as more info is available. And if you trust yourself to be able to evaluate the information in the thread and to make good choices? You are doing the right thing by surviving. That said, you haven't *just* been surviving. You have been finding and lynching scum because you have good instincts"

She lynched most of the scum team but was Town reading Tina.

[Standard] The Matrix Reloaded - Game Over

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