Age of Legends [standard] Mafia - Game Over

[Nynaeve]

I can't seem to quite drop off.... so I'm kinda around. I'm rereading Nolder's posts and writing stuff down. If I finish it before dropping... I'll post my thoughts.

[Zander?]

 

 

 

Research your character @Zander

 

13 players. 13 Forsaken.

 

Characters randomly assigned.

 

It's sort of irrelevant because I think it just shows Nolder has no idea who his character is or was being ironic.

 

lolololololol ya my bad i didnt recognize my chars original name.

 

 

LOL. Caught this on reread.  FWIW, neither did I ... but the point in BFG's role PM when she said I was a healer who liked torturing my patients for fun gave it away so I double checked.  So don't feel toooooo bad about it.

 

 

 

[unvote][v]Kivam[/v]

 

[Zander?]

(Btw Zander I have food!!!!)

 

 

(my pizza was sooooooooo good)

[Zander?]

I can't seem to quite drop off.... so I'm kinda around. I'm rereading Nolder's posts and writing stuff down. If I finish it before dropping... I'll post my thoughts.

 

 

Foreshadowing...????     .lolololololololololol

[Kivam]

BTW, Hallia flipped "Demandred", didn't she?  Not Demandred's original name, but his Forsaken name.  Which means that the "fake claims" BFG referred to were being told that townies were given the forsaken's original names.

 

Shad ... is that why you're quoting that post?

[Nynaeve]

 

I can't seem to quite drop off.... so I'm kinda around. I'm rereading Nolder's posts and writing stuff down. If I finish it before dropping... I'll post my thoughts.

 

 

Foreshadowing...????     .lolololololololololol

 

 

[Zander?]

 

 

I can't seem to quite drop off.... so I'm kinda around. I'm rereading Nolder's posts and writing stuff down. If I finish it before dropping... I'll post my thoughts.

 

 

Foreshadowing...????     .lolololololololololol

 

 

 

[Shad_]

BTW, Hallia flipped "Demandred", didn't she?  Not Demandred's original name, but his Forsaken name.  Which means that the "fake claims" BFG referred to were being told that townies were given the forsaken's original names.

 

Shad ... is that why you're quoting that post?

 

Nah, I'm assuming town claims were randomized and if scum got an original name and Forsaken name pairing it was pure coincidence.  But I did check to see if Crusher accidentally dropped the same name when he character claimed.     [unvote]

[Zander?]

 

 

 

 

Research your character @Zander

 

13 players. 13 Forsaken.

 

Characters randomly assigned.

 

It's sort of irrelevant because I think it just shows Nolder has no idea who his character is or was being ironic.

 

lolololololol ya my bad i didnt recognize my chars original name.

 

 

LOL. Caught this on reread.  FWIW, neither did I ... but the point in BFG's role PM when she said I was a healer who liked torturing my patients for fun gave it away so I double checked.  So don't feel toooooo bad about it.

 

 

 

[unvote][v]Kivam[/v]

 

 

 

 

 

BTW, Hallia flipped "Demandred", didn't she?  Not Demandred's original name, but his Forsaken name.  Which means that the "fake claims" BFG referred to were being told that townies were given the forsaken's original names.

 

Shad ... is that why you're quoting that post?

 

Nah, I'm assuming town claims were randomized and if scum got an original name and Forsaken name pairing it was pure coincidence.  But I did check to see if Crusher accidentally dropped the same name when he character claimed.     [unvote]

 

 

 

 

 

.......sad face

[Shad_]

 

 

I could get behind what Calder is selling if he would just spell you're correctly.

 

That said, interesting non-reactions to my Thane vote. Nobody has a comment on that?

 

Thane was my peek, he's inno.

 

Wanna tell me why you voted him now? Also what reactions did you expect when you just quoted him and voted without any commentary?

 

Bold: considering his lack of activity thus far, how do you square that claim with your preference for waiting to disclose peeks until players have done more to let you more confidently read them as town?  

 

Underline: No.  I want you to read the thread until you get to that answer

 

Italics: I was hoping for someone to attack me for it, and was expecting to at least get asked for reasons.  Instead, I got dead air until I pushed the issue ... which is somewhat suggestive of wolves hoping for a lone, unexplicated vote on a teammate to get lost in the wash rather than highlighted with a fight or further questions.

 

 

This is really goofy. 

[Nynaeve]

Nolder ISO

 

 

 

 

- Joke vote on Kiv. Null

- Unvotes and votes dice. Seems like a serious vote, after some of the guys were discussing the whole band core deal. Explains later.

- Unvotes, votes Calder. When questioned he says it's a place holder vote. When chastised by Laine that we're past place holder votes... he says he isn't... but then late expands and says that he thought clov said wwsd (what would shad do)... so he voted for who shad would... ie Calder. Okay? Null.

- Not fully caught up. Admits he's ignoring long posts (mmm..). A string of posts where he says he'll catch up but then comes up with reasons why he didn't... mostly naps and RL stuff. Okay? Technically null... but like I said at the time, took him a while to actually get into the game.

- Shortly after that he says he has a read list. Mostly has three town leans (AJ, Clov, Shad). Two scum leans (Laine, Kivam). The rest are all null. 

- When expanding on the reads, he states that he feels the Calder/Shad thing is V/V. Which is the same tune Halli and Crusher were singing..... So either scum who knew it was v/v or observant townie. Eh. Personally I think it was a tough call to be able to see into that interaction. And throughout his posts he seemed pretty adminant that it was the case... until votes started to pile on Calder.

- I found something that caught my eye. He went on talking about his nulls. He says Hallia, Thane and dice badly need to post more. And then added that Crusher said he'd post more content later on. Why did he break Crusher from the other three.... when he basically said the same thing on all four? That they needed to post more. Lunno why it bugs me, but it does LOL

- 1)Goes on about how he thinks the trap was stupid, that Kivam was more interested in pushing me, vs laying a trap for crusher... and that springing the trap on Crusher and flipping on him was an afterthought. 2) Goes on about how Crusher is a notoriously hard player to lynch... and all that worthless meta crap that really says nothing about Crusher's alignment.... sums it up saying that the whole thing left him feeling slimy about Kivam and that he's willing to vote there.

- Explains that Alanna should be able to function with lack of sleep, so he's less willing t give her the benefit of the doubt that it's because lack of sleep.

- Adds that he wants to give Alanna more time and lynch Kivam first. But that if Laine ends up being the lynch, he won't complain much. Overall hate the reasons for both of these scum reads. Kiv's FoS also encompasses a defense on Crusher, which is all too conveniant.

- Unvotes and votes Kivam.

- When questions about dice's vote from earlier, he says he just wanted dice to talk more. Null, really.

- Goes into idle talk about language on DM, The CoC and seizures.

- There's the whole part of my exchange with Nolder. It was a bit extended, but his list, in a way,  seemed convenient spread wise in regards to my suspects so I pointed it out. And then we went into a discussion of his defense on Crusher. He excuses Crusher's vote on me... says that he was under pressure to give some content and jumped at something right in front of his face. Labels it as lazy play, vs scummy place (which it was).

- Seems to favor the notion that Kivam's ploy was really to get Crusher mislynched and me pocketed. 

- Says he's under the assumption that Kiv is mafia right now. And mafia wouldn't be trying to lynch mafia... hence the assumption is that Crusher is town. Based on performance, though, Crusher doesn't look town yet which is why he has him as null on his list. None of this makes sense, basically. 

- Labels Kivam springing his trap on Crusher as tactical retreat.

- Defends me when Crusher points out that my emo was weird. Says I gave people a warning in the sign up thread.

- Later he says that Crusher being altruistic and being ok with being lynched is weirder than my emo bit. Decides to step back and see how it plays out. Leaves his vote on Kivam, though. At this point Crusher basically gave up in my book.... so I could see why Nolder, as his scummate, would start to distance at this point.

- Explains again how he thinks Kivam had more to gain by backtracking from my push and turning on Crusher.

- Tells Calder that reading both he and Shad makes him think Shad is frustrated town.

- Says again how he thinks Crusher is town in relation to Kivam, but that looking at Crusher independently, he's still reading him as null and needs to see more content from him.

- Repeats that he thinks Shad really is town here. Says he's considering to switch his vote to Crusher to clear up matters between Crusher, Kiv and myself. But adds that he still prefers to lynch Kiv and would rather not switch if it can be helped. Asks if anyone would consider switching to Kiv, still starting to nudge this train. Doesn't really happen. And I think he could very well be realizing that Crusher is done for... both cause the push was garnering attention and Crusher not really putting up a fight.

- Once ignored he says... ok so that's clearly a no on kiv... he says he's gonna tie the trains then and votes Crusher.

- I question him why he didn't move on to his second scum read, Laine. Instead he moved to a null read he spent quite a bit of time defending. He says he's more interested in competing trains between Shad and Crusher. He also says he feels better about her.

- Says him tying the trains is due to him liking tie trains. Says it's telling and that we might not lynch mafia today... but the information we gain from it will help us catch'em.

- Responds to dice saying he'd like to see a lynch, but that he's just leaving it in the hands of others than his.

-Chastises Alanna, telling her to pick a side like he did. Only... not sure he really picked a side.... exactly.

- Chastises Alanna for voting him and not one of the two main trains.

- Says he's pretty sure Crusher is gone for the day and that the ball is in Laine's court. 

- Laine accuses Nolder that he wanted the lynch to go to random. And says it's suspicious that both trains have been sitting for so long. Says it's too easy. She says Nolder is being scummy. He answers saying that's a lie and that she's twisting the situation. Says that what Clov did is equivalent to what he did... and if so she should be accusing him of the same. (wasn't the same, though, ftr).

- Says that Laine and Thane are psyching themselves out about picking a train. okay?

- Tells that the next day he's going to write what he thought about the votes that were cast after he made his move. Which he does later on.

- Says he thinks Shad is locktown. Okay? Agrees with Clov's POE and him saying that Halli is pretty much lock scum.

- Questions me if I still actually think Shad is a suspect. Mentions that Zander has been floating through the game.

- More back and forth with me about Clov giving him leeway over him tying. Says voting patterns are a bad way to clear people.

 

while useful, voting patterns are a bad way to clear people so don't. 

 

I find it strange, considering his whole rationale on D1 was to tie the trains... so then when things developed, he could look into people's votes and infer things. 

 

- FoSes Zander for voting Shad.

- Goes back to explain his rationale for the Crusher vote. Says it wasn't about saving Shad or lynching Crusher. It was about him not having good reads on D1.

- He quotes the VCs of EoD.... and ends up with the conclusions that AJ is prolly town... Laine is prolly too wolf to be a wolf... and therefore prolly town. And basically that Thane looks the worst because he was around and didn't vote.

- Dishes out a new read list, saying EoD votes helped clear up things. Bottom two he has Halli and Thane. Wildcards: Laine and Zander. The rest are in his town pile. Follows up with a vote on Thane

- Reiterates again that he thinks Shad/Calder was town on town violance.

- In our exchange disagrees that one of Shad/Calder is Crusher's scummate... which is why Crusher didn't seize the opportunity. He says is because Crusher just gave up. But eventually agrees that Crusher could have caused more chaos between them if he chose to.

- When I point out that Calder didn't offer much in the way of reads... he shows interest and saying he didn't realize it. says he might be willing to throw him back into the wild card list if Calder doesn't post a read list. 

- Argues with Calder's philosphy.

- Argues with Thane about not voting. Asks him why he's hunting Seer and not wolves.

- Asks Calder and me what we make of Thane and Hallia.

- Asks Zander how he feels about Thane having him as #1 villager.

- Retracts town read on Calder and puts him in his wildcard.

- Says he's not in favor of ending day early. Questions Halli about her reads from EoD1.

- Asks the others if Hallia and Calder have interacted at all this game. Questions her why she switched to Crusher.

- Doesn't get any traction with the Thane train. Reiterates that he feels bad about Thane, but that he guesses that we can always come back to him if Calder is just trolling. Unvotes and votes Calder.

- AJ questions him. Says that Nolder said at some point that voting patterns are not that important (which he did). So why, then, was he voting Thane for not voting at EoD. Nolder replies saying he's pretty sure that's not what he said (he did say that, though). Adds that Thane was purposefully not taking a stand and that fence sitting is a known scum tactic. Erm, okay. Could also be an indecisive townie.... :P

- At the joking phase where Calder and Clov are tied, Nolder unvoted Calder and votes Halli. A couple of minutes later changes to AJ, on to Clov, AJ, Zander, Calder..... And basically trolls for a while.

- When D3 starts I open with my assessment that AJ was shot cause of what he posted at EoD. Which imo comes across like a guilty peek on her. Nolder shows saying scum are Thane and Hallia. And that he agrees with what I said about Halli... so we'll start with her first. I explain that Thane was AJ's N0 seer cover. 

- Wonders who could be Halli's partner. Laine? Looks into VCs... says it was unhelpful. Chasteness Thane about being useless.

- Says that his heart tells him that it's Halli and Thane but his mind says it's not Thane. Says people of concern are: Laine, Zander, Kivam and Shad. SHAD?!? didn't he lock clear him?? (ftr, this is before Clov's claim). Doesn't mention me at all.

- D4 starts off voting Alanna. Says he prefers her today, over Kivam, because Kiv was instrumental to catching Crusher... even if he doesn't understand it.

- States that his WTL is: Laine, me and Kiv. Oh good, I exist!

- Unvotes when Kiv and I argue, saying this is a weird turn of events.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, a bit long, sorry. I color coded it.

 

Black = Important points about what he said about Crusher both when defending and then eventually voting him

Blue = Mostly all the times he pointed out how much townie Shad is

Red = Important points about what he said about Thane as he tried to push him

 

 

 

I think what looks worse for Nolder is basically everything he said in regards to Crusher initially. I mean, it's pretty bad. Actually, no, it's REALLY bad. His defense of Crusher extends to a number of "reasons"... and I use the words reasons loosely... to try to defuse attention on Crusher. Once Crusher gave up and basically claimed and said... lynch me.... Nolder started to slowly hedge back to voting him. Granted... he always repeated that Crusher is null and that he only looks town in relation to Kivam, who he was scum reading.... but come on. Just to demonstrate how ridiculous it is... he's a summarized lists of reasons:

 

 

1. Kiv's trap was stupid

2. Kiv wasn't looking to set a trap, he was trying to push Nyn's buttons. 

3. Springing the trap on Crusher was an afterthought.

4. Crusher is hard to lynch.  (so? lol).

5. Conclusion: Kiv is slimy. Want to vote there.

6. Crusher's vote on me was done cause he was under pressure to provide content and he pounced on the first thing he saw.

7. Crusher's vote on me was lazy play.

8. Kivam wants to lynch Crusher and pocket me.

9. Kivam unvoting me and voting Crusher was a tactical retreat. He had more to gain by it.

10. Assumes Kiv is mafia. He assumes mafia wouldn't try to lynch mafia so the assumption is that Crusher is town.... heh.

 

BUT.... based on performance... he thinks Crusher is null. Yeah, the above really transmits that feeling, doesn't it?

 

Still wants to lynch Kiv.... yeah.... lynch Kiv..... then Crusher claims his character and says he's a good lynch.

 

 

SUDDENLY

 

1. Man, that's weird from Crusher. Giving up and all that.

2. But hey, I still want to lynch Kiv. Anyone? ANYONE?!?!

3. Okay... everyone's ignoring me so I'm gonna..... TIE THE TRAINS. YOLO, SUCK IT SUCM.

 

 

[Nynaeve]

Sorry if some of it is not fully coherent... I pushed through and it's like 5 am here LOL

 

I hope the color coding helps.

[Nynaeve]

As far as Shad..... I'm sorry, but I don't think it was that obvious that Shad is town. No offense,  Shad, but without the peek you'd be squarely in my PoE because I thought a lot of your earlier exchanges with Calder looked kinda bad.  In case I didn't make that clear lol

 

I would say Nolder is almost obsessively reiterating how Shad is so obviously town. Not something concrete there. I think the Crusher thing looks a lot worse. But I thought it was worth noting.

[Kivam]

 

 

 

I could get behind what Calder is selling if he would just spell you're correctly.

 

That said, interesting non-reactions to my Thane vote. Nobody has a comment on that?

 

Thane was my peek, he's inno.

 

Wanna tell me why you voted him now? Also what reactions did you expect when you just quoted him and voted without any commentary?

 

Bold: considering his lack of activity thus far, how do you square that claim with your preference for waiting to disclose peeks until players have done more to let you more confidently read them as town?  

 

Underline: No.  I want you to read the thread until you get to that answer

 

Italics: I was hoping for someone to attack me for it, and was expecting to at least get asked for reasons.  Instead, I got dead air until I pushed the issue ... which is somewhat suggestive of wolves hoping for a lone, unexplicated vote on a teammate to get lost in the wash rather than highlighted with a fight or further questions.

 

 

This is really goofy. 

 

 

So it turns out, yep.  D1 is never my finest day (this game's results notwithstanding)

[Nynaeve]

As far as Thane goes, it mostly revolves around him badgering Thane for not voting at EoD1. Feels kinda thin overall because like someone mentioned, Thane not voting is not really alignment indicative, imo. I don't really like that he doesn't vote, generally speaking, but that hardly should be the sole reason to vote him.

 

It also bemuses me that Nolder says that voting patterns are a bad reason to clear someone and tells me not to clear him on account of him tying the trains... yet they seem to be a legitimate reason to vote someone?  Kind of flawed logic there. I didn't really see Nolder commenting about much of Thane's content.... he mostly zoomed in on him not voting. Which, with Thane, is a pretty easy mark to push. He characterizes not voting as fence sitting and scummy.... which CAN BE a scum tactic.... but I'm pretty sure Thane has done it before as town.... not factoring that in is.. convenient. 

 

Then the whole Calder things stirs up.... and seeing as Thane's train doesn't get any traction, he joins that one. The next day he starts off with Halli and Thane... but given AJ's flip he knew there was no way he could push Thane and I don't think Halli's lynch was avoidable considering the theory I raised. It just looked incredibly bad for her. As well as her not really playing. So I don't think it would be a stretch thinking he would jump ship at that point. It's actually very plausible IMO.

[Nynaeve]

I think the thing that seals it together for me is that the rules indicate that scum have no day chat.

 

D1 Crusher gives up on thread... there's no way for them to talk.... strategize... nada. In that situation where no one was going for a Kiv lynch and Crusher was, on the surface, giving up.... you make lemonade.

 

Same with D3. Scum were expecting that day to start with the Seer dead and prolly a good idea that Halli waa done for (I still think they thought he had a guilty on her). Whilst AJ flipped VT I think Halli wasnt escaping the noose anyhow.

[Nynaeve]

Gonna go sleep now... ni

[Kivam]

Why do you think scum expected aj to be the seer? "Hoped" i get. Expected i don't. What am i missing?

[Shad_]

Kivam are you doing the thing?

 

 

Nolder, this post interests me.  Explain please.

[Nynaeve]

Why do you think scum expected aj to be the seer? "Hoped" i get. Expected i don't. What am i missing?

I don't really understand the difference. Means the same to me.

 

I think AJ made a brilliant move EoD. Considering Calder's behavior we thought we had a scum in the bag and AJ's post about Halli came across like him leaving a guilty on her to seal the game. It was an extremely good cover. NKing him was bound to make Halli look bad. But if Halli was peeked scum, which imo that was the main rationale in shooting him, she was lost anyhow. So the priority was to take out AJ before he peeked the last scum.

[Nolder]

question @ everyone,

 

if we are wrong today and happen to mislynch....whose flip would be most telling?  Like if Kiv flipped town= Nyn scum or vice versa and such,

 

i ask cause we have our PoE (Alanna, Nolder, Kiv, Nyn). Clov wanted to clear Nyn or close enough and I think he pushed/suss'ed? Kiv as well.

 

But I'm thinking/wondering if we actually need to clear them up first as opposed to Alanna or Nolder first,  Thoughts?

 

Or am I just tinfoiling way too much atp?

 

lololololololol

I think it's really a toss up. All of us have played middling games this time around. Ok, not bad, not good.

That's what's making this endgame so hard. After Hallia there's no really good target.

[Nolder]

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[Nolder]

Voting patterns have been weird; he dropped votes twice out of nowhere that were awkward to me (Dice/Calder?). One of them being a placeholder vote on Calder(?).

They were both placeholder votes. This was explained when you asked me about them the very first time.

I'm sorry if you were already passed placeholder votes but I was not.

 

Other than that I haven't really liked his content and he was pushed into my POE because others were looking a lot better. I guess a lot of it is also gut, he's just not sitting right with me and that's why I voted him d1 before  moving to Crusher. I remember him doing a few other things that bothered me, but I want to look back at both Nolder and Kivam before placing a vote today.

Well, I'm glad when it comes time to lynch me it's based on such a reasonable and well thought out case. :P

 

I respect that instinct can play a big part in mafia but we do have an entire games worth of material to work with. Looking back at my content, the things I have and haven't done, and you still think it is me? This is in large part why I think it is you. This tunnel has no basis.

[Nolder]

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[Nolder]

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