Age of Legends [standard] Mafia - Game Over

[Zander?]

Around 10 hours.

 

ya theres a chance im not around at 3:30 am my time tonight.

[BFG]

Official VC 1.13

Calder (1): Shad

Shad (4): Dice, Zander, Calder, AJ

Hallia (1): Clov

Crusher (2): Kivam, Nyn

Kivam (2): Crusher, Nolder

 

Not voting (3): Hallia, Thane, Laine

 

 

 

 

 

Official VC 1.12

Calder (1): Shad

Shad (3): Dice, Zander, Calder

Laine (1): AJ

Hallia (1): Clov

Crusher (2): Kivam, Nyn

Kivam (2): Crusher, Nolder

 

Not voting (3): Hallia, Thane, Laine

 

[unvote]

 

[v]Shad[/v]

 

Calder smells what I'm stepping in.

 

[Kivam]

Around 10 hours.

That's about 2am ny time

[BFG]

Deadline's about 10 hours from now :)

[Calder]

 

Kivam - i did not say that he was trying to line up a lynch on you or nyn. I agree that it is the opposite. He seems to want someone else to look at that isnt either of you. Which is the main reason it struck me. Bc he is saying not these guys Crusher, who else can we pin it on.

 

So it pinged you specifically because I wouldn't want to lynch Nyn or Kiv if the flip is town?  Why did that in particular make it scummy?  Would the post have been ok had I left the door open to suss the two of them as well?

 

 

We have thought each other are scum for awhile now, so any little post either of us makes is more likely to seem scummy than if someone else had said the same thing. 

 

Looking at it in a vacuum (as best I can) the only truly troubling aspect is that you said you would be open to lynching Crusher, but I read that post as you feeling the opposite about him. That I didn't like. The rest is theorizing/bc it was Kivam who asked. Because if you were lynched and flipped scum than Kivam would be my top suspect. He has twice now challenged my stance on you. The first more subtly by saying it was unlikely to lead to a lynch and I should pack it in. Therefore, it does bother me to have known he would look worse if you flipped scum to then see you specifically take the time to make it known that if Crusher is town than neither Kivam or Nyn look that bad. Just feels like another connection.

[Calder]

 

Around 10 hours.

That's about 2am ny time

 

That timing is ripe for shenanigans.

[Shad_]

 

 

Kivam - i did not say that he was trying to line up a lynch on you or nyn. I agree that it is the opposite. He seems to want someone else to look at that isnt either of you. Which is the main reason it struck me. Bc he is saying not these guys Crusher, who else can we pin it on.

 

So it pinged you specifically because I wouldn't want to lynch Nyn or Kiv if the flip is town?  Why did that in particular make it scummy?  Would the post have been ok had I left the door open to suss the two of them as well?

 

 

We have thought each other are scum for awhile now, so any little post either of us makes is more likely to seem scummy than if someone else had said the same thing. 

 

Looking at it in a vacuum (as best I can) the only truly troubling aspect is that you said you would be open to lynching Crusher, but I read that post as you feeling the opposite about him. That I didn't like. The rest is theorizing/bc it was Kivam who asked. Because if you were lynched and flipped scum than Kivam would be my top suspect. He has twice now challenged my stance on you. The first more subtly by saying it was unlikely to lead to a lynch and I should pack it in. Therefore, it does bother me to have known he would look worse if you flipped scum to then see you specifically take the time to make it known that if Crusher is town than neither Kivam or Nyn look that bad. Just feels like another connection.

 

 

I actually don't hate this post.

[Zander?]

 

Around 10 hours.

That's about 2am ny time

 

 

Kiv 2 questions:

 

1- Do you think Shad is town and if so why.

2- Chances at least one scum is voting you currently?

[Shad_]

fwiw treating people I think are scum as town is pretty normal for me.  I would say ask AJ
 

Also the way you're questioning Crusher here about where to go next if he flips town as you seemingly gear up to vote him makes me uneasy.

 
Hence why I hate this comment.

[Calder]

O Cloveo, Cloveo! Wherefore art thou Cloveo?

Deny thy father and refuse thy name

Or, if thou will not, be but sworn my love

And I'll no longer be a Capulet.

 

(as long as we don't try to get our license in Kentucky)

[Shad_]

In spoiler because mehh lots of quotes, don't wanna crowd things up.

Read up to the top of pg10 for now, so this is what I have so far.

Few questions within (Shad, Calder, Clov, Andrej)

 

 

 

 

Here. As I said, limited me until Thursday. Possibly no me until Thursday. I will do my best. I've now been awake for like 35 hours straight and won't be sleeping for another 8-9.

Alanna tired y'all

#helpme

Alanna's playing to her scum meta here.

 

 

 

Rage will be worth it.

 

 

? Unfortunately though, the last two(?) games I've been scum in, I was horribly behind all of d1. I think I'm getting into terrible habits in general though

 

"I hope she's not keeping quiet because she's afraid I'm high-tuned to her scum game."

:rolleyes:

 

 

[v]Calder[/v]

Scum.

 

Too easy probably, but it crossed my mind.

This post really pinged me when I read it and the followup is "meh"....

Oh hey this isn't actually your first mafia game.

^

 

Calder's post #45 doesn't make sense to me. I don't think that post was meant as a soft defense. If we're going by Shad thinking this was your first game, I can see where it crosses a player's mind that newbies roll scum (are we looking at the same OP?) But at the same time, I'm not sure I believe that, due to your comfortability in the sign up thread or your OP. Shad is more observant than this unless he didn't really read any of it and took comfortability as a matter of course. Shad's first game was very ~odd in that he seemed more experienced that he should have been and many assumed mafia (coaching).

 

That being said, not sure I'm feeling the "half-hearted defense" angle that Calder takes. But this post is believable, as well as Shad's followup on post 54 (it lines up with my train of thought above about him not reading- how much merit is there to this?). His dodging posts don't do him any favors though, but I'm not sure that's within his mafia meta.

 

 

Lol. Damn phone. Response went into the quote section. So repeated below (shortened):

My issue is that it has the feel of a post that doesnt need to be made. It is game related, but says nothing and means little. So why post it if ur town?

Its the scum "hey guys im active post."

 

Interesting.  Would you expect scum to post read-related fluff right off the bat?

Feels slightly defensive, but I can see Shad saying this as town to get a read on Calder, especially now knowing he's experienced.

 

I'm probably going to regret this, but I've got Calder as reasonable town right now.  I don't hate the reasoning for his initial push against Shad at all, and his response to Shad's question wasn't wrong IMO.

 

Gutread on Shad was just barely above rand for mafia after Calder's point, and #50 sounded like he was trying too hard to appear not concerned, but #54 is plausible enough to keep him null at this point.

Clov, first sentence worries me, second confuses me, and last bit had me nodding my head along.

 

 

 

I'm probably going to regret this, but I've got Calder as reasonable town right now.  I don't hate the reasoning for his initial push against Shad at all, and his response to Shad's question wasn't wrong IMO.

 

Gutread on Shad was just barely above rand for mafia after Calder's point, and #50 sounded like he was trying too hard to appear not concerned, but #54 is plausible enough to keep him null at this point.

Not bad.

 

Tbh I was sort of intrigued by Shad's initial response to my vote because I didn't actually have a reason for it. His explanation in misunderstanding that Calder isn't new was plausible at the least.

 

Calder's push back was alright. I like that he noted Shad's +1 although I hadn't specified anything but he seems experienced enough to be able to play the POV game. His response to my vote was null but there was nothing really to respond to. I just wanted to see how he'd react early on since he's new to me.

 

 

Townie post

 

 

 

 

 

 

I literally cannot wait to watch these two interact.

YESSSSS

 

Hah.

 

You made 2 nonchalant posts (46 and 50), which i have been criticizing. So your post again is worthless.

 

Also you have only asked one significant question and i answered that you were leading and it was a WIFOM question with no answer.

Question: Can you see a villager being nonchalant about pressure in an attempt to diffuse pressure?

 

Andrej being helpful townie and preaching. Fos

I take this back reading in context. Andrej looking good ITT

 

The fact he's being helpful means ~nothing towards his alignment.  AJ is a very good player so I don't think he's incapable of making that post as mafia at all.  I think Mafia!AJ would probably WANT a bunch of early fakepeeks, since they (theoretically) would have a lower likeliness of being accurate and that helps narrow the NK poe, but I don't think he's going to come in and recommend it - especially when a handful of us recently played with him in the same setup when he waited to post a peek for accuracy reasons.  He was town, and I'm positive he's smart enough to know the sudden change of heart would stand out.

 

That being said, I don't see how it would ever warrant a FoS.  I'm giving him 0 towncred for trying to be helpful, but I don't see a reasonable argument why anybody would suspect him for being mafia for it.

Anyways... I said this post was odd because it just popped out of nowhere. My Fos was not serious, my subsequent post towards Clov about the seriousness of my post was also not serious. So, I found this post of his to be out of place because it doesn't match up with the attitude that I was presenting ITT at that point, which was something similar to exhausted playful indifference?

 

Kiv is right in #127

I only just understood Clov's post #128... I literally asked for him to decide it for me then called him out for explaining. OMG wow I'm sorry dear LOL My point above still mostly(?) stands though, maybe except for the first line

 

I also concede my points on Andrej that I made about his posts (p7)

 

#143 Shad, do you think Calder being sure you are mafia and not allowing for a town alternative is motivated by town or mafia thinking? 

 

#151 interesting from Zander: this would destroy the credibility that Shad just missed the Calder-talk

 

#157 from Shad... I think I would like this post better if you straight up answered the accusation instead of brushing it off again. You're a little sloppy this game Also, no more quote pyramids. They suck.

 

 

 

So far I like Zander, Clov, Andrej for the most part. Wary of Calder. Iffy on Shad. What I'm getting caught up with irt Shad is how he was in Pulp Fiction. It was a gut feel that he was mafia, but on the thread itself he was pretty clean. So here and now, I'm not getting that same gut feel, but it appears he's getting tripped up in the thread. Maybe things will clear up a little bit better when I read some more though?

 

I also get this weird feeling that all that's been talked about d1 is Shad. If he turns out to be our lynch and flips town, I'm going to be a little bothered that it was so easy for mafia to sit back in this exchange and let it happen. Basically, I want to see some pressure happen in other areas too :)

 

TMI? 

[Nynaeve]

O Cloveo, Cloveo! Wherefore art thou Cloveo?

Deny thy father and refuse thy name

Or, if thou will not, be but sworn my love

And I'll no longer be a Capulet.

 

(as long as we don't try to get our license in Kentucky)

 

lol  I was wondering too. 

[Kivam]

Shad - it's posts like from Calder that which make me think you and calder have been town on town. Frankly, nobody who's played with me before would look at the interactions between me and you and go "teammates", but it reads genuine coming from calder. You've both had things that pinned me, but not enough for me to vote either of you today.

 

Suggest you move your vote, considering you're on the block and voting somewhere that looks to have no chance of happening today

[Kivam]

 

 

 

Around 10 hours.

That's about 2am ny time

Kiv 2 questions:

 

1- Do you think Shad is town and if so why.

2- Chances at least one scum is voting you currently?

1 don't have strong feelings either way on shad. Most of what he's done plays from both a town and a scum perspective. But the towniest thing he's done all day, imo was that post to crusher that Calder took as scummy

 

 

2 high, obviously - since I'm voting Crusher, and he's voting me

[Shad_]

Shad - it's posts like from Calder that which make me think you and calder have been town on town. Frankly, nobody who's played with me before would look at the interactions between me and you and go "teammates", but it reads genuine coming from calder. You've both had things that pinned me, but not enough for me to vote either of you today.

 

Suggest you move your vote, considering you're on the block and voting somewhere that looks to have no chance of happening today

I think that's sound advice and at the same time think I'm going to catch heat for it.

 

I'm generally a last minute voter but I'm also not used to having a train with EoD approaching.  [v]The Crusher[/v] is a significantly better option than you or Hallia imo and I'd rather have my vote there than be +2 above the second train sitting solo.  I will very gladly switch back to Calder if it becomes a viable option.

[Calder]

 

 

 

Around 10 hours.

That's about 2am ny time

Kiv 2 questions:

 

1- Do you think Shad is town and if so why.

2- Chances at least one scum is voting you currently?

1 don't have strong feelings either way on shad. Most of what he's done plays from both a town and a scum perspective. But the towniest thing he's done all day, imo was that post to crusher that Calder took as scummy

 

 

2 high, obviously - since I'm voting Crusher, and he's voting me

 

If you don't have a read on Shad either way than why did you try to dissuade me from my push on Shad earlier? I mean if you don't have a read on him then why would you care?

 

Especially considering your point that there would not be enough support has been proven iffy at best, considering Shad has the most votes.

[BFG]

Official VC 1.14

Shad (4): Dice, Zander, Calder, AJ

Hallia (1): Clov

Crusher (3): Kivam, Nyn, Shad

Kivam (2): Crusher, Nolder

 

Not voting (3): Hallia, Thane, Laine

 

 

 

 

 

 

Official VC 1.13

Calder (1): Shad

Shad (4): Dice, Zander, Calder, AJ

Hallia (1): Clov

Crusher (2): Kivam, Nyn

Kivam (2): Crusher, Nolder

 

Not voting (3): Hallia, Thane, Laine

 

 

Shad - it's posts like from Calder that which make me think you and calder have been town on town. Frankly, nobody who's played with me before would look at the interactions between me and you and go "teammates", but it reads genuine coming from calder. You've both had things that pinned me, but not enough for me to vote either of you today.

 

Suggest you move your vote, considering you're on the block and voting somewhere that looks to have no chance of happening today

I think that's sound advice and at the same time think I'm going to catch heat for it.

 

I'm generally a last minute voter but I'm also not used to having a train with EoD approaching.  [v]The Crusher[/v] is a significantly better option than you or Hallia imo and I'd rather have my vote there than be +2 above the second train sitting solo.  I will very gladly switch back to Calder if it becomes a viable option.

 

 

[Kivam]

 

1 don't have strong feelings either way on shad. Most of what he's done plays from both a town and a scum perspective. But the towniest thing he's done all day, imo was that post to crusher that Calder took as scummy

 

 

2 high, obviously - since I'm voting Crusher, and he's voting me

 

If you don't have a read on Shad either way than why did you try to dissuade me from my push on Shad earlier? I mean if you don't have a read on him then why would you care?

 

Especially considering your point that there would not be enough support has been proven iffy at best, considering Shad has the most votes.

Seriously, wth is this post about?

 

1) i don't think Shad is particularly scummy, so why would i support lynching him?

 

2) i never tried to dissuade you from pushing shad. IIRC (posting from mobile), you asked why people weren't jumping on the case you were making and i said i didn't find it compelling and doubted others did given their silence. I also said pretty clearly "but maybe I'll be proven wrong by future events". I'm not sure whether the late additions to shad were convinced by your argument or something else, and i don't really care since while i do have an ego, beingright or wrong on this issue doesn't really impact it.

 

Honestly, I'd be scum reading you for the garbage you've been pushing lately if not for the fact that your tunnel on shad reads genuine.

 

On the other hand, since you're representing yourself as the type of player who'd expect scum to defend scum, it's possible this tunnel is just a soft defense of crusher. Interested to see how this looks on reread and after a flip or two

[Shad_]

 

 

 

-snip-

1) I'm not actually playing, that's probably what's sketching you out. I'm gonna pull a Crusher and float until endgame on jokes

-snip-

2) re: 132 on Clov's reaction to me FOSing Andrej.. idk I didn't really expect him to jump in and call out my FOS on Andrej's meta with such a post.


3)

On the note of me being preachy and helpful, I talked early game strat in Belicheat where Laine was a wolf so she definitely knows at the least I would do it as town.

Sort of bugged how she threw mud then backed off immediately when the accusation wasn't even an accurate one.

You realize I wasn't serious, right?

I'm personally a tad bit... idk curious(?) about this post being 30 minutes after your initial post saying I'm "sketching you out". I'm not sure if it's the wording, or the time frame (ie you bringing it back up to keep me in the spotlight) or what. I can't say it's anything I'm overly bothered about and maybe the feeling will pass in the morning.

 

1) I wouldn't count on it, chica

2) Except your meta on me wasn't even correct. You've seen me do it as both alignments so characterizing it only as part of a scum game isn't accurate. Weren't you joking anyway?

3) No, otherwise I wouldn't have brought it up again. What does the timing have to do with anything? I was mulling over what I thought about you and realized I had done so recently in a game as town and thought that you should be aware of that. It's sort of my job to bring stuff to the spotlight that I find inaccurate or false - so I don't see the point there either. Do you expect me to let you falsely represent me and NOT say anything about it?

 

 

 
I guess because I didn't take Laine's FOS post seriously I thought it a bit sketchy that AJ did and eventually reached a wtl on her.  Rereading I can't really hate AJ here.  Red crossed my mind too.  And for me it's not a feeling that Laine tried to push AJ and backed away when it failed.  I do believe it was a joke.  It's how Laine dealt with being questioned about it that comes off kind of weird.

 

 

 

 

The fact he's being helpful means ~nothing towards his alignment. AJ is a very good player so I don't think he's incapable of making that post as mafia at all. I think Mafia!AJ would probably WANT a bunch of early fakepeeks, since they (theoretically) would have a lower likeliness of being accurate and that helps narrow the NK poe, but I don't think he's going to come in and recommend it - especially when a handful of us recently played with him in the same setup when he waited to post a peek for accuracy reasons. He was town, and I'm positive he's smart enough to know the sudden change of heart would stand out.

That being said, I don't see how it would ever warrant a FoS. I'm giving him 0 towncred for trying to be helpful, but I don't see a reasonable argument why anybody would suspect him for being mafia for it.

 

This. I'm assuming that was a joke post from Laine, because otherwise the thoughtprocess of "only scum AJ tries to be helpful" would make no sense at all.

 

ding ding ding! Though I have told Andrej he comes off very helpful townie as mafia before. He's also an overall nice guy.. so not really alignment indicative *shrug* His wolf doesn't show this early anyways lol and I'd be the biggest fool to think I could read, well, pretty much anyone ever.

 

 

 
AJ left this part of the post out, but red feels awkward to me.
 

 

 

Andrej being helpful townie and preaching. Fos

I take this back reading in context. Andrej looking good ITT

 

 

And then this, I don't know what there is to "take back". Laine had been characterizing it as a joke.

I'll grant that she made a joke. It didn't come off well. The problem about the whole thing is that once she took some heat for it she started waffling in whether she should continue to treat it as a joke or roll with 'it was a serious suss but I changed my mind'.
 

I don't know if it all should really bother me or if this is just nitpicking.  At any rate I don't feel bad about AJ sussing her at this point.  Laine, thoughts?

[Calder]

 

 

1 don't have strong feelings either way on shad. Most of what he's done plays from both a town and a scum perspective. But the towniest thing he's done all day, imo was that post to crusher that Calder took as scummy

 

 

2 high, obviously - since I'm voting Crusher, and he's voting me

If you don't have a read on Shad either way than why did you try to dissuade me from my push on Shad earlier? I mean if you don't have a read on him then why would you care?

 

Especially considering your point that there would not be enough support has been proven iffy at best, considering Shad has the most votes.

Seriously, wth is this post about?

 

1) i don't think Shad is particularly scummy, so why would i support lynching him?

 

2) i never tried to dissuade you from pushing shad. IIRC (posting from mobile), you asked why people weren't jumping on the case you were making and i said i didn't find it compelling and doubted others did given their silence. I also said pretty clearly "but maybe I'll be proven wrong by future events". I'm not sure whether the late additions to shad were convinced by your argument or something else, and i don't really care since while i do have an ego, beingright or wrong on this issue doesn't really impact it.

 

Honestly, I'd be scum reading you for the garbage you've been pushing lately if not for the fact that your tunnel on shad reads genuine.

 

On the other hand, since you're representing yourself as the type of player who'd expect scum to defend scum, it's possible this tunnel is just a soft defense of crusher. Interested to see how this looks on reread and after a flip or two

 

Point 1 is obviously wrong since it is not what I asked. I wasn't asking why you weren't voting to lynch him. I was asking why if your read was null would you bother to tell me I was being "obtuse" for not assuming as you were that it would get no future support.

 

I also am not saying that scum directly defends scum typically. However, that also isn't what I was worried you were doing. Back when you made that post you without voting had within the last few pages said he was acting scummy. Your post did suggest the lynch was going nowhere, while you weren't outright supporting or denying it, which has the potential to be a well hidden and subtle tactic to defuse a lynch. 

[Calder]

The Crusher stuff is just funny. You either believe in scum being able to soft defend or you don't. Acting like I'm an idiot for my question of you, while then saying I am soft defending Crusher is really funny.

[Zander?]

i feel like no one wants to talk to me and this makes me a....

 

 

[The Crusher]

The Crusher stuff is just funny. You either believe in scum being able to soft defend or you don't. Acting like I'm an idiot for my question of you, while then saying I am soft defending Crusher is really funny.

By the way thanks for defending me. 

[Calder]

 

The Crusher stuff is just funny. You either believe in scum being able to soft defend or you don't. Acting like I'm an idiot for my question of you, while then saying I am soft defending Crusher is really funny.

By the way thanks for defending me. 

 

It has been my pleasure.

[Nynaeve]

i feel like no one wants to talk to me and this makes me a....

 

I'm here fwiw. Still feel more strongly about Crusher, so that's what I'm rolling with, personally.