Ragnarok Game Thread - Game Over, Town Wins!

[Talya]

Going to check over AJ later as well.

 

I didn't get ant result last night.

[John Snow]

(Note: the investigator role does deep background on its targets to determine if any of them are a mafia godfather, and leaves the results for the cop to view if and when the cop targets the same player.  The effect of that is that a cop will get a "X is scum" result even when it views the Godfather if and only if the Investigator targeted the Godfather that night or on any prior night in the game.  In other words, with Laufey dead, Sili was effectively vanilla town)

 

 

Tayla, you scum trying to discredit the cop views? Clearly states with the godfather dead, not cop. 

[Songstress]

 

(Note: the investigator role does deep background on its targets to determine if any of them are a mafia godfather, and leaves the results for the cop to view if and when the cop targets the same player.  The effect of that is that a cop will get a "X is scum" result even when it views the Godfather if and only if the Investigator targeted the Godfather that night or on any prior night in the game.  In other words, with Laufey dead, Sili was effectively vanilla town)

 

 

Tayla, you scum trying to discredit the cop views? Clearly states with the godfather dead, not cop. 

 

 

Pretty sure she was just repeating what Eldrick said earlier:

 

Of course I keep thinking about stuff. I just thought of something that doesn't add up.

 

Tress said she got a cop type result. Someone figures that out from her saying she got a weird result. I don't remember who, but I have no idea how they made that type of connection.

 

Also, when Sili died, Kivam said that with the cop dead, he was effectively a vt. That doesn't make backup copies make a whole lot of sense.

 

She didn't go back and check the facts, obviously, but that doesn't make her scum.

[John Snow]

Ah, forgot Eldrick started it. Liking my vote even more now. 

[Talya]

 

(Note: the investigator role does deep background on its targets to determine if any of them are a mafia godfather, and leaves the results for the cop to view if and when the cop targets the same player.  The effect of that is that a cop will get a "X is scum" result even when it views the Godfather if and only if the Investigator targeted the Godfather that night or on any prior night in the game.  In other words, with Laufey dead, Sili was effectively vanilla town)

 

 

 

Tayla, you scum trying to discredit the cop views? Clearly states with the godfather dead, not cop.

I had it my head the he said cop, not the godfather. That makes sense. Meh!

[Eldrick4221]

So the reason you shouldn't consider me for Loki is the same reason I don't consider Mish and JS for it.

 

They know the wording of Kivam's modkill warning.

 

From Lenlo's reaction to D2 results, I have figured out that not everyone knows. Only those that got results back got the warning about what they could say.

 

My theory on how the game is working, and everything that has happened so far fits into it, is that everyone that has an active role gets their results shuffled. Maybe even Vanillas get in this mix. I don't think Loki does. I think he gets to sit by and watch the confusion. It makes sense for him.

 

Of course this isn't going to convince you that I'm not Loki. If you still want to lynch me over it, at least it's said, so you guys can continue looking for him after I'm gone.

 

For the record, the fact that Lenlo didn't know what was going on D2 was when I started thinking this, and it has made sense since. It could mean he's Loki, which is why he doesn't know what's up. It could mean he's vanilla, and they don't get in the mix. It could mean he just didn't get an informative result either night. But it's something to be aware of.

[Eldrick4221]

 

 

(Note: the investigator role does deep background on its targets to determine if any of them are a mafia godfather, and leaves the results for the cop to view if and when the cop targets the same player.  The effect of that is that a cop will get a "X is scum" result even when it views the Godfather if and only if the Investigator targeted the Godfather that night or on any prior night in the game.  In other words, with Laufey dead, Sili was effectively vanilla town)

 

 

Tayla, you scum trying to discredit the cop views? Clearly states with the godfather dead, not cop. 

 

 

Pretty sure she was just repeating what Eldrick said earlier:

 

Of course I keep thinking about stuff. I just thought of something that doesn't add up.

 

Tress said she got a cop type result. Someone figures that out from her saying she got a weird result. I don't remember who, but I have no idea how they made that type of connection.

 

Also, when Sili died, Kivam said that with the cop dead, he was effectively a vt. That doesn't make backup copies make a whole lot of sense.

 

She didn't go back and check the facts, obviously, but that doesn't make her scum.

 

The facts don't add up, though, and that's my problem.

 

I need to go back and see what you did say. That was a half asleep thought, and needs more research.

[Eldrick4221]

Sorry on my misunderstanding the situation with the explanation of Sili's role and the backup cop.  All Sili did was make the GF show up as mafia. His being dead does nothing to affect the viability of there being a backup cop. I had it confused in my head, and see my mistake now.

[Eldrick4221]

Don't listen to me when I'm half asleep. It doesn't make sense. I remembered it wrong. Sue me :P

[Eldrick4221]

Anywho, Tab is my most likely candidate for today. Mainly for how she voted Verb.

 

[v]Tab[/v]

[Eldrick4221]

I need to stop staying up til 8am, which means I need to start focusing on bed now.

 

I have noticed Tina is low on a lot of people's lists. I haven't noticed anything particularly bad from her, but I'm not sold on her being town either. Can I get reasons for why people have her so low?

 

The only things I remember are her reads not changing much, and that her bottom list was similar to Leelou's. I don't see how either of those are scummy, and I'm curious what the other reasons are.

[BFG]

Ok, I'm around for a few hours if people ant to chat :)

[BFG]

I need to stop staying up til 8am, which means I need to start focusing on bed now.

 

I have noticed Tina is low on a lot of people's lists. I haven't noticed anything particularly bad from her, but I'm not sold on her being town either. Can I get reasons for why people have her so low?

 

The only things I remember are her reads not changing much, and that her bottom list was similar to Leelou's. I don't see how either of those are scummy, and I'm curious what the other reasons are.

Unless I've missed something (which is possible), the bolded was me asking Leelou why she was finding Tina scummy for safe reads when their lists were very similar. That was trying to get a read on Leelou, not Tina.

[Talya]

So the reason you shouldn't consider me for Loki is the same reason I don't consider Mish and JS for it.

 

They know the wording of Kivam's modkill warning.

 

From Lenlo's reaction to D2 results, I have figured out that not everyone knows. Only those that got results back got the warning about what they could say.

 

My theory on how the game is working, and everything that has happened so far fits into it, is that everyone that has an active role gets their results shuffled. Maybe even Vanillas get in this mix. I don't think Loki does. I think he gets to sit by and watch the confusion. It makes sense for him.

 

Of course this isn't going to convince you that I'm not Loki. If you still want to lynch me over it, at least it's said, so you guys can continue looking for him after I'm gone.

 

For the record, the fact that Lenlo didn't know what was going on D2 was when I started thinking this, and it has made sense since. It could mean he's Loki, which is why he doesn't know what's up. It could mean he's vanilla, and they don't get in the mix. It could mean he just didn't get an informative result either night. But it's something to be aware of.

 

Bolded Blue - I can agree about getting the results shuffled, however you have no idea who gets the results, if it goes to all, then your theory is out, and you Mish and JS are back in the game.

Bolded Green - I didn't know what was going on and I got something N2 and I didn't get anything last night, so that does not fit whatsoever, you have very thin reasons for why you think something.

 

The fact that (and I checked this time) it says that neither scum nor town no their roles, suggest that the results would be mixed up between us. Otherwise, the scum would easily be able to work out what they did and what roles they have by their results. So this makes no sense. I also think Loki is not likely to be left out of it. 

[Talya]

Ok, I'm around for a few hours if people ant to chat :)

 

How about you start saying who your reads are, who you think is likely to be Loki and who you are willing to actually vote today?

[BFG]

 

Ok, I'm around for a few hours if people ant to chat :)

 

How about you start saying who your reads are, who you think is likely to be Loki and who you are willing to actually vote today?

 

At this stage nothing's actually changed in terms of how much of the thread I've read. And nothing is going to change with that regard in the next few hours as a minimum.

 

I can appreciate that this makes it very difficult to read me, and I can appreciate that that is frustrating, there is nothing I can do about that right now, (as in right this instant, I am reading through).

 

 

None of this is new; At the moment I do not think that Snow, Mish, Lenlo, Tress are mafia based off interactions Day 2 with Wishleste. So far you and Eldrick are the only people to specifically ask me questions about what I've posted instead of just pointing out inactivity, so I'd like it if you were both town as well, there's also stuff from Day 2 that I liked about Eldrick.

 

At the moment that leaves Tina, Leelou and Tabor. Tina and Leelou are unlikely to be mafia together. Tina may have been soft defended by Wishleste but I didn't really like Leelou reaction to me. Of the two I'm more likely to go Tina, because the wishleste thing is more 'solid'.

 

I'm not sure what to make of this. It's pretty much POE and with the exception of Leelou is consensus. Normally that would worry me, but consensus has generally been pretty good this game, so I'm kind of stuck.

 

Loki candidates I have no idea. I HAD thought that Loki was out of the role 'pool', which is currently Tina, Leelou, Tabor, Lenlo. Now I'm not so sure.

 

For a willing to vote I'll answer (and vote) when I have read more.

[michellem]

Not read all the newest, on mobile and all the quotes are killing me. Will be on the Mac in half an hour. Before pursuing Eld need to reread beginning of D2. Can someone find Dice's reads from D1?

[Kivam]

FYI: Rosh Hashana begins this evening, so I will be unavailable from late this afternoon through Tuesday evening.  Please do your own vote counts, and if someone is hammered before deadline, post your own flip with the picture from your role PM so nobody is left in suspense for 20+ hours.  If that happens, I will add role info to the flip when I get back.

[michellem]

 

Also with Loki alive it seems people cant say whatever results they got.

 

Least that what Mish and such has led me to believe with the threats of getting mod killed.

 

So he needs to go

 

Bingo. I mean we can imply, but cleanly saying it is beneficial. 

 

 

I got it specifically said I wasn't allowed to hint or imply who I got results on. I could say the type of role result I got back, and who I orignally targeted. Nothing more.

 

 

 

That's what I think.

 

I don't think he's scum because of the wishleste thing and how that all went down, but that doesn't rule out 3P.

You realize all this does is make me want to find him even harder, to clear my name, right? I've been so focused on him cuz he needs to be found for us to win. We are kicking mafia's button so far, so I'm looking good towards our next objective.

 

Kicking mafias butt? We got maybe half of them, in a game this size imo. Still a ways to go.

 

As for you wanting to find him, well we do to. So go out there and make use think your not Loki. I wish you luck. Your probably gonna need it.

 

 

I say we're kicking their butt when we're on D4 and we've only lynched 1 townie, but 2 mafia.

 

 

BFG and Tress hard claimed cop results. Makes backup cop more likely. The results are likely being scattared along with everything else, so at least mafia doesn't know who they are any more than town. 

 

The one advantage in leaving Loki alive is that someone besides the cop can get the cop results. However, the presence of a backup cop inclines me to believe that mafia can get results, therefore lowering the value of that plan.

The only issue is that when Sili died, he turned VT because the cop was dead. If there was a backup cop Sili would still have been active. Either there is a Mafia cop (to find Loki) or they are lying, but that would put then on the same team. Atm I would go with a Mafia cop but won't rule the other out.

 

Why is Mish still alive, she seems to be town read by everyone? And no, I don't believe night actions get mixed, only the results do. The kills have all been logical.

 

Could go with Eld being Loki or Tina for scum.

 

 

Probably because according to Snow I'm no big threat to mafia.

 

 

 

 

(Note: the investigator role does deep background on its targets to determine if any of them are a mafia godfather, and leaves the results for the cop to view if and when the cop targets the same player.  The effect of that is that a cop will get a "X is scum" result even when it views the Godfather if and only if the Investigator targeted the Godfather that night or on any prior night in the game.  In other words, with Laufey dead, Sili was effectively vanilla town)

 

 

Tayla, you scum trying to discredit the cop views? Clearly states with the godfather dead, not cop. 

 

 

My 2 cents on this...

 

The cop is dead. But it might be that all roles will still be in play at night. So for Sili that mean he was effectivly vanilla because he didn't have a cop-player to report to. But the cop-role is still being used. As in everyone submits a name and then all the roles in the game are shuffled and then results are shuffled. Don't know if that makes sense.

 

Only way I can see it makes sense with the cop being dead, people still getting results, and Sili being basically vanilla.

[michellem]

This is from the beginning of D2, after I reveleaed my night result. The first person to respond is Eld. I want you all to pay VERY close attention to what information I reveal, and what Eld reveals.

 

 

 

 

I'm just babbling here (yes, I'm putting off answering Wish' giant posts).

But this part you might wanna pay attention to. It's important babble.

I got a result on a player I did not target last night. This means we have a redirector or a busdriver. I'm not allowed to say what my result was or mention names. But the existence of a role messing with targeting is something everyone must take into consideration.

...so did I.

 

 

 

Omg. It just clicked. Our roles and actions are mixed up until we get Loki.

 

 

Maybe not our roles. But I'm willing to bet everyone that got a result back didn't get who they targeted.

 

 

Like everyone has their own player targets player, and then the results get shuffled.

 

 

Eld, that's a brilliant connection. Wether our actual roles are messed up/shuffled around, or just our results, are hard to say from just one night. That'll be easier to figure out D3.

 

 

 

Eld, that's a brilliant connection. Wether our actual roles are messed up/shuffled around, or just our results, are hard to say from just one night. That'll be easier to figure out D3.

That's what I was thinking. If we get the same type of results tonight, we can safely assume that's our role.

 

 

 

 

How do you know it got moved? On the first page it says you won't be getting any information in regards to what happened with your.role, such as action failed.

Also don't see how it makes him Dark green town, considering Loki is someone everyone wants dead.

Because my result isn't who I targeted. And Mish is saying the same thing. I guess theoretically there could be 2 redirectors, but I'm doubtful. Did anyone else get a result that isn't who they targeted?

 

 

 

 

Did Kiv tell you directly that it'd a different person? Cause I'm having trouble following this.

First you don't know your role, so how do you know what exactly it it you did?

Second how do you know it's a different person when the first post days you will get no extra info as to what happened with your role?

I'm not allowed to give specifics, but my result has a name of a player, and it's not the player I targeted.

 

 

 

I'm not sure we are allowed to say who we targeted. My result had weird limitations on what was allowed to be said.

 

 

 

Look at the parts I've bolded. Eld is the first to say that we're not allowed to share informations about WHO we got results about. I had not mentioned it yet, and he says it twice.

 

I REALLY doubt Loki will be on the list of those getting shuffled, I do not think he'll get any results. That just doesn't commute in my mind. He messes with the roles and information for town and mafia, but I really doubt he's getting anything back. And as I've stated before; I really don't think Loki would know so much about his role that he would know the exact wording in Kiv's PMs. So Eld being the first one to say on-thread that he's not allowed to say who his targets are, makes him a very unlikely Loki suspect for me.

[Talya]

I concur with Mish on what we are allowed to say, so JS how can you say that I'm VT, you would not be allowed to say what the result was so you are a lying liar who lies...I had already thought I would most likely be Vanilla.

 

[v]John Snow[/v]

[Kivam]

Vote Count

 

Tina (1) - Leelou

Eldrick (2) - John Snow, Lenlo

Taborline (1) - Eldrick

John Snow (1) - Talya

 

6 to lynch

[BFG]

@Mish, I don't think dead players roles are recycled, we've only had 2 kills for one night. My guess is backup cop.

[BFG]

I concur with Mish on what we are allowed to say, so JS how can you say that I'm VT, you would not be allowed to say what the result was so you are a lying liar who lies...I had already thought I would most likely be Vanilla.

 

[v]John Snow[/v]

How would Snow know you were vanilla if he was mafia?

[Lenlo]

That doesnt assuage my fears Mish. Most likely, the only two people im going to be willing to lynch today are Tina or Eldrick.