[Advanced] The Usual Suspects Mafia - GAME OVER - COPS WIN

[Nynaeve]

Anyways, w/e. Add that to the huge pile on the left of things I don't like 

[WWWwombat]

 

Can you explain more what you like about Talya’s posts?

 

Under Clov – “He seems to be looking at Clov” - what does this mean?

 

“AJ has checked in, so that’s good.” - ????

 

Have you looked at Wombat’s posts today? After last night and today, I am feeling much better about him.

 

From what I read from Talya's posts, it doesn't seem she is overly aggressive but at the same time questioning around trying to find inconsistencies. For example, posts like this and thiswhich is straightforward and inquisitive. I have seen her play similarly as town before.

 

I have no idea what that was about Clov, lol. I think I mixed it up while formatting.

 

AJ's point was that he mentioned he is going to be busy. ANyway, he has given out detailed reads today. Yet to read them

 

Still something off WOmbat. Has been better today but there are a good number of unnecessary posts as if he wants to be seen as active.

 

 

I don't care whether or not people see me as active.  Talya has good posts and bad posts.  I don't like how she is burying her analysis in walls of summary but that might just be a function of game bloat.

[Nynaeve]

Im currently 31 pages behind and will keep banging at that but am going to try and focus on real time   or as close as i can get  from here on. Have to bang heads with my other head and get an update hoping she doesnt kill me.

 

Hi 

[Nynaeve]

I learned in my last game with Zander that he is very capable of keeping the same tone/face up as scum that he does as town. He can be playful, joke around, etc.

 

The difference in his game is that when he actually has to make a case against someone (IE list reasons for his read, especially scum reads) he sort of struggles. Maybe it's a complex where he has a hard time lying, or hasn't really learned to the nuances of playing the perspective game - but yeah. Don't focus on the jokes and funny stuff because that won't get you anywhere.

 

Do you think he's struggling in this game?

[keyholder21]

Okay, I had figured that it would be the actual Kiv/Z slapfight that bothered, but I actually found a few before that since I started from the beginning. I wish I'd put post links that I didn't like in hydra QT because this would have been so much easier. .

 

I digress. Anyway. At page 12 I am liking Kiv over Z still. Not a huge fan of Kiv's vote on AJ, but that's been henpecked to death AND I think it's not at all alignment indicative AND I'm liking Mish.

 

Some posts of Z's that irked me so far:

 

*snipped*

voting Laine atp is just a bad look imo.

I know he has a mafiacrush on Laine, but this is the second time on one page he's mentioned not voting her right now. Just sits weird with me.

 

 

 

 

 

Seph/Zander lecturing Kivs is scummy.  Sili asking Lenlo for content is lol.  New people have interesting hair colors.  Shad and Cory are killing it.  Laine leaving her vote on the best hydra ever is scummy.

 

[v]Laine[/v]

 

why?  dont want stuff carrying over from another game especially mod related stuff.  theres 28 players in this game and its gonna be hard enough to follow without that stuff going on man

 

really??  need to see more imo.

 

voting Laine atp is just a bad look imo.

 

 

You are trying so hard to look town without actually doing anything.  Why?

 

 

iwhat im trying to do is get engaged and game solve.  my townyness will always just shine through.

 

This response is like..what? How is the post above anything to do with gamesolving?

 

(lol Yates response to Celeste's qs. Made me laugh all over again.)

 

Lots of joking back and forth.

 

Now some posts of Kiv's that are bothersome upon reread:

 

Since nobody is doing anything ... [v]Pralaya[/v].  If my memory is right, he likes to lurk as scum, and hasn't checked in yet.  Pral, where're you at?  Start laying some content down.

 

Kiv's vote for Pral. Also highly discussed later. I don't necessarily mind the vote, but I don't like Kiv's later argument that he wasn't meaning to imply Pral was scum. I don't think Kiv says this without knowing the implication is there.

 

 

Just hoping to spur some content when he does get on and see it.

Okay, I can see this angle kinda, but then I don't think the "he does this as scum" was necessary. But AGAIN, this has been henpecked later in the game and I'll get to those later posts when I can. Just bringing it up here because it's affecting my read of Kiv now that Cory is on vaca and I'm forced to look at this slot myself.

 

(Page 19)Fakeemo Kiv is fakeemo Kiv. Says nothing about alignment imo.

 

(Sidenote: page 21 - Shad seems pretty snippy on reread.)

 

(sidenote: page 22 - lol darthe reading the thread "tonight".)

 

 

 

 

Believe me, Laine's lynch all hydras thing is null. Make what you will of people supporting it.

 

Like I said, I disagree with the concept. Laine is still squarely null right now. But I want to see where she goes with it. Kiv's supporting it cause... MATH!.... eh.  As is him trying to portray a null Pral tell as a scummy. Zander charging in, agreeing with Kiv, and demanding a vote on Laine be removed is a head scratcher. I'm taking my time with him, though, cause judging by the last game we played together.... I don't speak Zanderlish.

 

 

Not my intent.  I only played with him as scum, at least that I remember, so that's all I know.  But I'm not a fan of lurkers of any alignment, so prodding for content is part of my D1 play anyway.  I'd point you to AJ's Pulp Fiction game where I did the same thing ... but I was scum there, so that's not all that helpful anyway

 

 

If you only played with him as scum, then you shouldn't be using meta. You clearly said that as scum he lurks. That's the basis of your vote. Only he is a low content poster regardless of his alignment. Whether you approve of low content players or not is irreverent.

 

You didn't place a vote for reaction. You placed a vote, while characterizing his absence as scummy.

 

I agree with Nyn on this and still don't like Kiv's explanation because I feel like he would know the difference.

 

Right now Kiv not looking so hot, but due to Pral vote explanation (not vote) not argument with Z.

 

Have to stop here, on page 22. Husband got home from his X-wing tournament early so we're going to have a date night while the kids are gone. I might be able to get on later, but no promises because well, no kids means my time will probably be otherwise occupied and I'll let you grown-ups figure that out . I should be back tomorrow morning since kids won't be back til early afternoon.

 

Also, DM keeps loading slow or not loading at all for me which is hella irritating.

[Andrej]

Do you think he's struggling in this game?

 

Couldn't really say at this point from where I am, but I'll come back to this when I've finished my read through - whenever that may be.

 

Thus far what I've seen is pretty 'Zander' so to speak, but nothing stands out to me yet that I have issue with. The only slight issue with I have is with his hydra partner, Seph, and his early justification for saying Sili looked good.

[Nynaeve]

I'll be rereading the thread a few times today, and I'll post an updated reads list. 

 

Are they gonna include reasons? :P

[Andrej]

I might be able to get on later, but no promises because well, no kids means my time will probably be otherwise occupied and I'll let you grown-ups figure that out

 

 

Enjoy!

[Andrej]

Anyway - gonna try to get another chunk of the game done before I have to leave for dinner.

 

Sushi night

[Nynaeve]

mmmm... sushi

[WWWwombat]

@ AJ: How does Clov doing Clovian things make him town rather than just Clov?

[WWWwombat]

 

 

 

Kiv Votes Pral - This is that post: I'm not seeing this anything other than Kiv trying to start things and go after someone who hasn't voted. There were others that hadn't posted, but how is he supposed to vote for all. He can't. I see this as nothing more than a pressure vote trying to encourage Pral, but also to get reactions. Unfortunately I can see him doing this as town or wolf.

 

Okay, I can't help but comment about this, cause it irritates me. I don't want to sound like a broken record, but I think you're wrong. Last game (Verbal's assassin game), someone kicked off D1 with a vote on Pral, joking that it would summon him to the thread. And that's fine.. It isn't the actual vote that bothers me and I've said that quite a few times. The issue what it is not what he did, but how he did it, throwing in a.... well last time as scum Pral was lurky too. hint hint. poke poke. Then he got called on it and rightly so. Then he claimed to only have seen his scum game, which means he shouldn't have said what he said without the full knowledge of his meta. He's not dumb. And then later on he says he doesn't believe in meta at all, So why bring it up? The whole thing stinks of backpadeling because he got heat over it.

 

I'm sort of tired of the whole kick starting, reaction testing, faking, fibbing excuses. What he did wasn't kickstarting the game, it was misrepping and voting for someone based on something he claims he doesn't even believe in. 

 

 

How do you expect games to get going without kick starting or reaction testing?  Look at this one for instance.  Over 80 pages and almost no vote movement yet.

 

 

You start talking. People say dumb sh*t. You question them. And if all else fails, you lynch Darthe.

 

 

I tried that before.  Turns out you just end up lynching the dumb people.

[WWWwombat]

There are two sides to that coin though. A player can get away with doing scummy stuff cause it was just a reaction test/fibbing/kick starting. I'm not a fan of that little loophole that is left readily by for players to wiggle out of tough situations.

 

It's all in whether the explanation is plausible.  If it's a reaction test, then have them explain what they were looking for and what they found.  If it's kick starting then have them explain how it was meant to move the game in a pro-town direction.  Right now, I'm buying Kiv's explanation.  I'm guessing you aren't.

[Andrej]

Just saw this.

 

1) Zeph lecturing Kivam was scummy because it's a stock town-seeming angle to take that doesn't actually do anything.  This was the stage of the game when people vote people for completely stupid reasons, so Zeph taking that angle isn't about trying to keep illogic out of the game thread imo so much as it is about trying to find something pro-town to say.

 

2) Shad and Cory were making me laugh.

 

3) Vote on Laine was a reaction test, as is pretty much everything I do super early in games.  Didn't get anything from Laine but Zander bit and called my vote a "bad look."  Not sure if he's trying to pocket Laine or if he's really that bad, but given everything he and Seph have done this game, they are my top scum read.

 

4) Figured you were just reaction testing me earlier but now that you've doubled down on "Wombat is scum cuz I don't like his OP lel" you can consider yourself FoSed.

 

1) Ok. From that angle I think it's more null though, as I can see a player making the same point as either alignment.

 

2) Not how I interpreted the post, but ok.

 

3) What sort of 'everything' are you talking about? I'll see this later and will interpret it myself but I'd like your opinion on the matter since you've stated it.

 

4) lel - not the FOS. Maybe you've kicked it up, we'll see. What I said earlier still stands though, I think generally I do pretty well reading you early on.

[Andrej]

@ AJ: How does Clov doing Clovian things make him town rather than just Clov?

 

In that particular instance I think it's a good sign.

 

He's using his meta knowledge of Nyn and the way she goes about handling suspects as town. He sees this and notes it. So like I said, unless he's pulling some double reverse blind move - it's probably a good thing.

[Andrej]

The old lady wants to go grocery shopping now rather than later, so I'll be back after that and dinner.

 

Still on pg 31 and will continue pressing.

[Nynaeve]

 

I tried that before.  Turns out you just end up lynching the dumb people.

 

xD

 

 

I appreciate players being transparent more than the gambity variety (Mynd, Yates and so on). Not to say I don't respect that way of playing, but that's my preference. I understand the intent behind saying something pingy on purpose to examine reactions, But as town, it muddles the read on you. And as scum it can be used as a cover. So not a fan. Just my own personal take on it.

 

 

 

There are two sides to that coin though. A player can get away with doing scummy stuff cause it was just a reaction test/fibbing/kick starting. I'm not a fan of that little loophole that is left readily by for players to wiggle out of tough situations.

 

It's all in whether the explanation is plausible.  If it's a reaction test, then have them explain what they were looking for and what they found.  If it's kick starting then have them explain how it was meant to move the game in a pro-town direction.  Right now, I'm buying Kiv's explanation.  I'm guessing you aren't.

 

 

No, I'm not.

[WWWwombat]

Just saw this.

 

1) Zeph lecturing Kivam was scummy because it's a stock town-seeming angle to take that doesn't actually do anything.  This was the stage of the game when people vote people for completely stupid reasons, so Zeph taking that angle isn't about trying to keep illogic out of the game thread imo so much as it is about trying to find something pro-town to say.

 

2) Shad and Cory were making me laugh.

 

3) Vote on Laine was a reaction test, as is pretty much everything I do super early in games.  Didn't get anything from Laine but Zander bit and called my vote a "bad look."  Not sure if he's trying to pocket Laine or if he's really that bad, but given everything he and Seph have done this game, they are my top scum read.

 

4) Figured you were just reaction testing me earlier but now that you've doubled down on "Wombat is scum cuz I don't like his OP lel" you can consider yourself FoSed.

 

1) Ok. From that angle I think it's more null though, as I can see a player making the same point as either alignment.

 

2) Not how I interpreted the post, but ok.

 

3) What sort of 'everything' are you talking about? I'll see this later and will interpret it myself but I'd like your opinion on the matter since you've stated it.

 

4) lel - not the FOS. Maybe you've kicked it up, we'll see. What I said earlier still stands though, I think generally I do pretty well reading you early on.

 

By everything, I mean everything.  Their angle on Kiv's vote on you.  Zander's stuff with my vote on Laine.  Pushing of Kiv on Pral/emo.  Continued pushing of Kiv after Kiv explained things.  Zander is a lot worse than Seph imo, but even Seph had a couple posts that made me go "ew."

 

Despo used to think he read me well too.  The only person who actually has that distinction imo is Verbal.  Maybe Leelou.  You've read me correctly a few times.  You're wrong right now though, so you're going to have to be right a few more to make up for it :P

[WWWwombat]

 

@ AJ: How does Clov doing Clovian things make him town rather than just Clov?

 

In that particular instance I think it's a good sign.

 

He's using his meta knowledge of Nyn and the way she goes about handling suspects as town. He sees this and notes it. So like I said, unless he's pulling some double reverse blind move - it's probably a good thing.

 

 

Ok.  I'm null on him and BFG atm.  I feel like I should be mind-melding with him more, but it's still D1 so =\

[WWWwombat]

 

 

I tried that before.  Turns out you just end up lynching the dumb people.

 

xD

 

 

I appreciate players being transparent more than the gambity variety (Mynd, Yates and so on). Not to say I don't respect that way of playing, but that's my preference. I understand the intent behind saying something pingy on purpose to examine reactions, But as town, it muddles the read on you. And as scum it can be used as a cover. So not a fan. Just my own personal take on it.

 

 

 

There are two sides to that coin though. A player can get away with doing scummy stuff cause it was just a reaction test/fibbing/kick starting. I'm not a fan of that little loophole that is left readily by for players to wiggle out of tough situations.

 

It's all in whether the explanation is plausible.  If it's a reaction test, then have them explain what they were looking for and what they found.  If it's kick starting then have them explain how it was meant to move the game in a pro-town direction.  Right now, I'm buying Kiv's explanation.  I'm guessing you aren't.

 

 

No, I'm not.

 

 

Yeah, I get that.  I love the gambit style though.  It can pay some serious dividends in the right hands.  Also, reaction tests are a lot more than just "saying something pingy."  Some of them may not even be pingy and all of them have to have the potential for giving alignment info as opposed to just getting both town and scum to look at you funny.

[WWWwombat]

Retract FoS on AJ.  Return to null.  Stage 1 continues.

[Kaylee]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT (unchanged):

 

Sephander (5): ClovFG, John Snow, Wombicat, Lenlo, Kivish

Kivish (5): Hallia, Nyce, Zander/Seph, Shad, Sili

Lenlo (2): CorKey, Razen

John Snow (2): Yates, Pral

 

 

Not Voting (6): Csarmi, Talya, Wish/Celeste, Nolderf, Laine, AJ

 

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

 

Deadline is Monday Aug 17th @ 9am MST/Noon EST

[Yates]

Just a post to show that I'm trying to keep up...

 

I appreciate players being transparent more than the gambity variety (Mynd, Yates and so on). Not to say I don't respect that way of playing, but that's my preference.

For you Nyn? No gambits this game. I may even play another "open hand" game since we have so many new [to me] players.

 

Besides; I don't think anyone will believe that Sili and I are masons again after Star Wars.

[Yates]

Oh. That was it?

 

[unvote]

 

[v]Laine[/v]

[Yates]

@AJ and Talya - I swear to all that is holy that if you don't stop with the reposting the entire game crap I'm going to institute a lynch all wot-ers policy!

 

Seriously, neither of you has added anything new or constructive to the game with those posts. And as people in perpetual catch up mode, you'd think you'd want to reduce the clutter? How about rather than commenting on EVERYTHING, you just come up with two people each that you are going to consider voting. Deadline is closer than you think and we don't have time to wade through all the static you are creating.

 

Please? And thank you?