[Advanced] The Usual Suspects Mafia - GAME OVER - COPS WIN

[Yates]

To ISO:

 

Click on the magnifying glass with the search field blank. Type in the FULL USER NAME in the author field. I like to cut and paste because you have to be exact.

[Yates]

K. 3 minutes late. I'm out.

[wish-tree]

To ISO:

 

Click on the magnifying glass with the search field blank. Type in the FULL USER NAME in the author field. I like to cut and paste because you have to be exact.

Thanks!

[Nynaeve]

When you're in the actual game thread, you look at the top on the right and click the magnifying glass image next to the search box. Don't type anything in the actual box. Once you do that, you have search options. Type in the "Find Author" category the handle of whoever's posts you want to ISO. You have to type the name correctly, otherwise it will say it didn't find any posts. After that you get all the posts of X person listed.... click the ascending column, so it puts the posts in order.

[Pralaya]

Question: I probably should have learned how to do this like 2 years ago, but how does one get a list/look at all the posts by one person? Ive never actually had to do this before. Or I had just been to lazy. Pick one.

 

Click on Search magnifier button on top right corner (you have to click while in this topic)

Enter name in Find Author space (you have give the exact name. For example, if you search for shad, you have to enter Shad_ because that is his profile name)

Click on Ascending to order it by time

[Pralaya]

Looks like I got beaten by Yates and Nyn 

[Yates]

 

 

 

I still don't remember where you have seen me play as scum. Care to help me?

Don't remember the game, or if I played or just watched; I don't keep track of old games.  You were a SK, IIRC.

 

 

Well, you are just making up stuff. I have not been a SK either. You just wanted an excuse to vote me, is what it looks like

 

 

interesting.

 

Pral - you were SK in Tommy's Top Tier Vanillagame.... Remember? You basically won it for Townand got shot in the head the last night? <_<

[Yates]

Argh! Out!

[Pralaya]

 

 

 

 

I still don't remember where you have seen me play as scum. Care to help me?

Don't remember the game, or if I played or just watched; I don't keep track of old games.  You were a SK, IIRC.

 

 

Well, you are just making up stuff. I have not been a SK either. You just wanted an excuse to vote me, is what it looks like

 

 

interesting.

 

Pral - you were SK in Tommy's Top Tier Vanillagame.... Remember? You basically won it for Townand got shot in the head the last night? <_<

 

 

Oh yeah.I forgot.  Had replaced ARsis that game and killed scum the first two nights, heh

Scratch that earlier comment to Kiv then.

[keyholder21]

Stupid work. Ok. Where was I?

[Zander?]

 

 

 

 

 

I still don't remember where you have seen me play as scum. Care to help me?

Don't remember the game, or if I played or just watched; I don't keep track of old games.  You were a SK, IIRC.

 

 

Well, you are just making up stuff. I have not been a SK either. You just wanted an excuse to vote me, is what it looks like

 

 

interesting.

 

Pral - you were SK in Tommy's Top Tier Vanillagame.... Remember? You basically won it for Townand got shot in the head the last night? <_<

 

 

Oh yeah.I forgot.  Had replaced ARsis that game and killed scum the first two nights, heh

Scratch that earlier comment to Kiv then.

 

 

not interesting.  lolololol

[wish-tree]

 

First - hooray, someone gets it.

 

Second - I'm pretty sure I've said exactly that, repeatedly.

I mean... you have sort of said that but it was never clear.

 

 

I don't see how you can argue I'm "misrepping" anything.

It was the "last night" qualifier that made this confusing. You seemed to be implying that Wombat was fluffing the WHOLE GAME in your post then said that I did the same thing "last night." So you compared Wombat's content over the whole game to my content over a very short period of time and that was/is confusing because it comes across as a contextual misrep. I'm not even sure of the point you were trying to make or why my name was brought up in the first place.

 

Thank you! I will take my time and analyze this carefully. Glad you obliged. <3

Yup. You are entitled to one detailed explanation of Yates-Think [TM] as a first time player with me.

 

Kivam seems to have addressed the question you had for me. And his response is pretty much what I was expecting. Yes there were others [i think two? Maybe?] that hadn't posted but I think Pral was the only one that Kivam had experience with. That's how I do my inactivity prods on the rare occasion I do them as well so this seems reasonable/legit.

 

Side note: did you invade our Skype chat and possibly infiltrate a game of CAH once a couple of months ago? I'm either having a memory or about to have a seizure.

 

I wish I could've been here for it live, but 

 

 

 

You are a lot younger than I remember...

 

I found a question I had neglected to answer.

No, I did not invade your Skype chat and infiltrate a CAH game (though I have done both in the past). You are merely having a seizure.

[wish-tree]

Just going to highlight some meta stuff from Cory that's almost certainly true. These are meta observations that he would and does make as any alignment so agree or disagree, I think *he* believes these things to be true.

 

Re: Zander

As much as I love Zander he can be incredibly poor at defending himself and explaining what he thinks in a way that other people will understand

This is almost verbatim something I said in Belicheat.

 

During the only wolf game of Zander's I have ever read he was pretty much in line with his now usual villager play-style (high post content, repetitive, etc.) but in that specific game 85% of his gameplay was him bussing one of his partners

This also happens to be 100% fact. In the Belicheat game Zander was universally Town read all game and rode his Town cred from the Star Wars game to victory as scum. I was guilty of early Town reading him as well. I'm not even sorry about it. Zander played a great first time scum game. I pretty much stopped reading after I was killed N1 but if anyone saw any solid tells I'm all ears.

 

Re: AJ

AJ is a very good "tone faker" as Mafia and sometimes relies on it, I remember him getting to like ~Day 4 in a POG game as a wolf solely on having good tone without actually even doing anything

 

Can see him trying to use it as a crutch as wolf

Worth noting.

 

AFAICT AJ can't help but wrack his brain as a villager

AJ has no problem taking controversial stances and pushing them with some force as a villager and I can usually read him based on whether or not he's trying to do work or show work

Both very likely true. Though I'm cutting him some slack since my understanding is that he was at Sea World all day yesterday - which is when the content really started to flow and everyone had finally checked in.

 

Oh. And he's ALWAYS right about Hally. So Hally is probably Town regardless of Cory's alignment.

 

 

A few questions about the stuff I have in bold:

1. If Zander's poor at defending himself, and his meta as town and scum are pretty much the same, how do you even read him?

2. @Cory: How can you tell the difference between AJ doing work and showing work?

3. I don't understand this Hally bit. So Cory never lies about Hally, regardless of his alignment?

[wish-tree]

Was planning on doing a big WOT catch-up style post, but after reading ~30 something pages and seeing that I had less than 20 posts I wanted to actually comment on, I'll forego that and just take a big consciousness dump ITT. Most topics have been touched on and repeated enough that I don't feel the need to add anything - so I'll try to bring some fresh points to the thread.

 

Shad's joke vote on Seph early on reminds me of how he started in the Belichick game, which is cool considering our synergy in that one. I had some more of his stuff quoted in the queue before I wiped them all that I liked as well. His comments towards Hallia/wish-tree are pretty villagery and carry that sort of uncanny poise he has for a newer player. Good vibes from him thus far.

 

Wish-Tree strikes me as a Hallia.2 in the first few pages of the game. Don't know what that means yet but it's the impression I got, so there you have it.

 

Hallia and Nyn are passing the eyeball test so far. Halli's coming out strong against Kiv and I think her reaction to his whining is good in the sense that she's an emotive player and I would expect her to react that way to that sort of thing. Nyn's sharpness came out once she got past her intro catch-up. She's picking up on the details I think she would as town regarding Kiv's Pral vote, and the responses to Celeste/wish-tree are the amusingly blunt type we all know and love.

 

Wombat's OP at a glance makes me think the randomizing wasn't so good to him, more gut than anything. Wanna see him get more involved once things picked up more beyond the catch up style posts.

 

Zander/Seph/Laine seem to doing that townie circle jerk thing they like to do - we'll see how that progresses. Zander is easy going but I'll be looking for when he starts to make cases after our last game together where he got by a lot on being 'Zander'. Don't really have an opinion regarding Laine picking up Mynd's torch, the stance itself is null but we'll see where she goes with it. Not much about Seph stuck out to me beyond him reiterating a lot that he really likes wish-tree/Celeste.

 

Kivish slot giving me some troubles atm. I basically hate Kivam's approach this game, first with me and then later with Pral and the subsequent backtracking, but Mish feels pretty genuine with how she's reacting to things ITT. Wouldn't really have thought Mish would be the redeeming quality for them (no offense) but if they weren't paired I would support a Kiv wagon at this point.

I wonder if any part of this has changed. I found this post that Yates mentions being AJ's only post of substantial content.

1. Uncanny poise? This is a gut vibes read as town. Could you explain?

2. Tell me what it means now? 

3. So, scum gut read? 

4. What does that mean? Townie circle jerk thing?

5. Do you still support a Kiv wagon?

 

Ehhhhh

Maybe I'm just WIFOMing myself, but I'm starting to agree with Celeste after looking at all of AJ's posts. The ISO thing is really helpful. Thanks, guys.

[Talya]

 

Oh goodness these reads are so flaky... rofl

 

I don't remember specifically what some people posted, just that as I was going through and ISOing posts, that I liked what they had already posted.

 

lollll (wants to lololol so bad, it's all Zander's fault)

 

 

let the lolololololol flow freely

 

@ Mish, I did mention you and Kiv.

Thought too much was being made on Kivs vote stuff, thought your posts honest, but didn't like your vote on Shad.Zander...you missed the Qs over his emo stuff, didn't like it

not ready to give a reads list yet :p

 

 

pretty sure i answered it if not post it.

It was to Mish, she said I hadn't commented on you.

 

Shattered, try not to make my re read 3-4 hours tomorrow

[seph]

I'll be around for a bit, I'm walking to get my car from the shop.

 

Wish- I don't know if that is exactly true about cory and hally. But from the few games I have played or read, as town he has always been right. And the only scum game I have seen with cory, he just pocketed her

[keyholder21]

*snipped*

So reading this was fun cause the quotes are bonked. Clov only asked me when did I mention AJ before that post, not why I had him on the list.

*snipped*

-.- It was totally implied. You said “As I said before, AJ is a good lunch.” If someone says where did you mention them before, they are looking for where you explained your read, dude.

 

*snipped*

This also makes me think the Zander-train is town driven btw, and mafia is reluctant to hop on because they don't want mafia down on D1.

I cut your GWoT here. I didn’t follow what in your post you thought made Z’s train town driven/mafia reluctant.

 

 

Caught up. at last.

 

3 of the top 4 posters are in a hydra...thought you couldn't post much, which is why you are in a hydra. H8u all :p

 

Clov - don't like the nitpicking of the Kivam/Pral, don't agree about voting one half of a hydra, takes just one to screw up. Can't pass BFG neither. Could votee here

 

@ Wombat - Why me and Hally along with Zander?

 

Wish - love her questioning, would now like some thoughts on who she thinks maybe wolf

 

@ Sili - the reason of the Meh - at the end of reading yesterday, you had posted a fair bit, but couldn't pick anything major out and no feelings either way. Will need to reread you. Why did you vote Darthe and then unvote and vote Kivam?

 

Cory - don't get the stuff on AJ, need to read on that, believe Clov disagreed with you.

 

Lenlo - Why AJ and Zander?

I've skimmed over all your catchupposts 2 times now, and I can't see you take a stance on me and Kiv, or Zander/Seph, that's the two leading trains now... I don't like that. AT ALL.

 

This is a good point. I haven’t really remembered anything Talya has said this game.

 

@everyone unhappy with my lack of proof in my reads list:

It was more of a PSA, I'm not trying to convince anyone they're town. I'm more interested in trying to find mafia, then convincing you that said person is mafia.

If a train starts up on one of my town reads without a good reason, I'll be backing them up.

*snipped*

What does this add to the game AT ALL? Thanks for your list, I guess, but without knowing why you are reading them that way, it’s nothing more than a random list of names pulled out of a hat.

 

 

OK, reread got postponed by a little family business, read the thread up to here, and will reread later.

 

@Clov/Cory: My rep absolutely is that I'm very bus heavy as scum.

 

So no, when I'm town, I pretty much am never self-cleared. I have to count on making good arguments that convince people because they are good arguments, not because they're townreading me - because given my rep, nobody ever ever ever townreads me. Best I can do is null. (Papa? Will you tell me what it's like being townread when you're town? I bet it's glorious). It's also a reason I never make it to endgame without being lynched unless I've been cop-cleared (and even then, people go "but maybe he's a godfather!"). [Note - even in the gambit game, I wasn't the one who rode the towncred to endgame. I was the sacrificial lamb who got lynched]. On the other hand, I've become less of a NK target as town (except for newb scum) because I'm usually such a good mislynch candidate.

Funny. I always think the opposite. I guess because the only game I can remember playing with you when you were scum, we were on a team together. Otherwise, I just think of you as a townie cackling madly as you make the other players dance for your amusement ;) :p.

 

He's saying it could be helpful if and only if Kiv flips mafia. It's completely useless until we see Kiv's flip though.

This would have been better coming from Clov.

 

Zander - For jumping on our wagon with a thin (=bogus) reason. Def not partnered with Shad though.

Why definitely not partnered with Shad?

 

2. Wombicat (Wombat/Ocicat) - wombat is talkative but haven't seen him do any real scumhunting, I'm guilty of this myself so w/e. no idea who OC Cat is.

3. Seph/Zander hydra - No opinon.

4. Hallia - Good so far.

5. Sili - Dirty filthy spammer that needs to be eradicated for everyone's sanity.

6. Kivish (Kivam/Mish) - Like Mish's posts and don't dislike Kivs posts. Think there is probably already at least 1 scum on their train hoping it will build.

7. Laine - no opinion

8. Shad - no opinion

9. Talya - seen a couple posts but didn't read'em. Seems to be keeping up so good chance of being town.

10. Pralaya - no opinion. Has he checked in yet?

11. Lenlo - no opinion

12. Yates - Seems invested in some conversation or another. Yates is a tryhard though so that's pretty null imo.

13. Nyce (Nyn/Dice) - haven't really read their posts but I hope they are town because that's a scary combo

14. John Snow - no opinion

15. ClovFG (Clov/BFG) - BFG is nice. Clov I don't know very well. no real opinion

16. Beck Csarmi - I guess he posted but I didn't see it

17. CorKey (Cory/Keyholder) - Haven't noticed key posting but Cory seems to have good thread presence. don't think he has a problem with that as scum though. I'd guess if he's really keeping notes ask to see some of them eventually and if true he's town. I've never known scum to keep notes myself.

18. wish-tree/Celeste hydra - they seem talkative no real opinion on them though

19. Nolderf (Nolder/Darthe) - please kills us. this is an abomination.

20. AJ - no opinion

^Quoting that sucked, btw. What is with all the stupid extra code?

 

Okay, so what does that mean for Wombat? Is that good? Bad? Null?

How are you null on Z/Seph?

So you think Yates is doing this all for show?

-.- @ not remembering my posts.

[wish-tree]

Caught up. at last.

 

3 of the top 4 posters are in a hydra...thought you couldn't post much, which is why you are in a hydra. H8u all :p

 

Clov - don't like the nitpicking of the Kivam/Pral, don't agree about voting one half of a hydra, takes just one to screw up. Can't pass BFG neither. Could votee here

 

@ Wombat - Why me and Hally along with Zander?

 

Wish - love her questioning, would now like some thoughts on who she thinks maybe wolf

 

@ Sili - the reason of the Meh - at the end of reading yesterday, you had posted a fair bit, but couldn't pick anything major out and no feelings either way. Will need to reread you. Why did you vote Darthe and then unvote and vote Kivam?

 

Cory - don't get the stuff on AJ, need to read on that, believe Clov disagreed with you.

 

Lenlo - Why AJ and Zander?

Oh...I remember. Talya's the one with the dragon avi. 

I would like to hear the Darthe Kivam vote reasoning too from Sili. 

Rereading AJ, Cory, Clov stuff. There's one point of Yates that I really like about that Three Musketeers interaction. 

 

@Talya, see my color-coded reads list. It ain't really developed well, but now that I've discovered a new tool, I think I can do it.

[wish-tree]

I'll be around for a bit, I'm walking to get my car from the shop.

 

Wish- I don't know if that is exactly true about cory and hally. But from the few games I have played or read, as town he has always been right. And the only scum game I have seen with cory, he just pocketed her

Okay...

What if they were teamed? o.o

I can understand that if Hally was town and Cory was scum he'd pocket. Just don't get why Cory's word on Hally is kind of irrefutable. Lol...

[seph]

Mish what is your read of sephAnder, aka teamderp?

I feel like when you unvoted, and said our train is town driven, you were leaning town.

 

Then here recently you say that we are likely not teamates with shad.

Can you explain the shad bit for me, or quote it if you have please.

 

And why/how are you getting the impression about the people voting us?

[wish-tree]

 

[v]Seph[/v]

 

Hally, I think that means you have to a

Stay and share.

Hally,real quick. Are you town?

 

And kiv, grudges man... they don't belong in this game. If your town, I don't want any clouded judgement, or a vendetta here.

all it does is cloud things up.for the whole game, so please please dont...

 

 

I honestly can't explain why this stood out to me as scummy, but this post just sounds awkward and completely unnatural to me.  

 

 

I don't care at all about Kivam's policy lynching of AJ or Laine policy lynching a hydra, in regards to their alignments.  Both voiced their gripes before the game started, and them actually "following through" (I use that term lightly) is no more likely to come from mafia than town IMO.  What I do care about IRT to Kiv is his vote on Pralaya, who is notoriously quiet as any alignment.  The fact he's only seen Pral as mafia makes it kind of fit, but then why vote at all?  

 

I didn't like Mish seemingly taking exception to Alanna's hydra efforts - and acting like she was being singled out - but her response to Laine sounded pretty good to me. 

 

 

Sili's discussion with Kivam actually makes me feel pretty good about him.  His response about the ambiguous words is something I actually see Town!Sili arguing, and it wouldn't be the first time that his posts suggest one thing and it's completely different than what he's actually thinking.

 

I like Hallia's activity, and she's already putting herself out there more than she did in Harry Potter.  I disagree with the reasoning of her vote, but her answer to my question wasn't bad and she actually seems to press the issue further.  

 

 

So if you drew town you might do it, only to unvote later, or not do it at all, and say 'Oh hey, just kidding lul'

 

but you did it, and for now my vote stays.

 

@Razen - Have you seen anythign better?  He didn't move it.  I know that his partner did, but it stands out to me as scummy.

 

 

Thoughts about Seph still? This is a gut/tone read, right?

 

I think the second bolded part is the place where the Kiv/Clov/Pral thing started. Wow. Clov really is it in the thick of it all. He's also in an AJ/Clov/Cory <3 triangle.

 

 

One more time with feeling: i made no accusation against Pral. I prodded him to participate because if he happens to be scum this game, i want content to analyze. If I haven't made this clear enough in this and other threads, I DON'T BELIEVE IN META. Good players can stay consistent across alignment and bad players will get caught making mistakes with or without meta on them. Other than wanting to know if particular arguments are out of character for a player (if i start advocating no lynch D1, there's something weird going on), things like affect and tone are meaningless to me, because they can be faked so easily Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

I don't see how the bold isn't a complete lie.  

 

 

Since nobody is doing anything ... [v]Pralaya[/v].  If my memory is right, he likes to lurk as scum, and hasn't checked in yet.  Pral, where're you at?  Start laying some content down.

 

 

That was your vote and explanation.  You could have just voted him and made a comment like "Come out and play" and left it there.  You deliberately pointed out that you associate him with lurking as mafia, and you point out that he's not being active.  You didn't say, "I think Pral is scum", but I think there's a pretty clear insinuation in that post.

 

Okay, I've already commented on both sides of this, but what do you think of Yates's point? (Quoted below):

 

 

What was the "legit assumption that perhaps wasn't accurate"?

Okay. You are undermining a potential scum hunting tool. I usually get cranky when people do this kind of stuff but this is like the 3rd time this has happened to me this game so whatever... lol

 

Basically, this is the post in question:

Since nobody is doing anything ... [v]Pralaya[/v].  If my memory is right, he likes to lurk as scum, and hasn't checked in yet.  Pral, where're you at?  Start laying some content down.

One interpretation of this post is; "I'm voting for Pral BECAUSE he likes to lurk as scum and hasn't even checked in yet."

 

That's the interpretation I had.

 

However, another interpretation is; "I'm voting for Pral since nobody is doing anything else and I like to prod lurkers when I don't have better things to do with my vote. ALSO, he likes to lurk as scum. Let's make him post a lot."

 

This was not an interpretation that immediately came to mind but is one that seems to be implied by his defense posts. I kind of didn't want to spell it out since it would have been better if HE had said something like this. Also, I could be wrong about this interpretation.

 

Still, the second interpretation seems like it could be implied if you string together this, this, this, this, this, and this. It's like he's answering suspicion without even realizing that we are all assuming the first interpretation - ie. he's unaware of why his post is being read as an accusation. But if you reread those links with the second interpretation in mind? I can buy it.

 

[wish-tree]

I gotta go. See you people tomorrow, late at night. Celeste and I are swapping posting times because we're now busier than ever.

[Yates]

 

 

I'll be around for a bit, I'm walking to get my car from the shop.

 

Wish- I don't know if that is exactly true about cory and hally. But from the few games I have played or read, as town he has always been right. And the only scum game I have seen with cory, he just pocketed her

Okay...

What if they were teamed? o.o

I can understand that if Hally was town and Cory was scum he'd pocket. Just don't get why Cory's word on Hally is kind of irrefutable. Lol...

waiting for my food order. That's why I qualified that statement. I think the only way Hally is likely scum is if she's scum with Corkey. I'm not saying it's irrefutable but it's like seph said, I haven't seen him be wrong on her even when I thought it was for spurious reasons.

[Yates]

Also phone posting is for people with little fingers not man hands.

[keyholder21]

I don't care what you think. The game is too long and you are one of the culprits.

I chuckled.

 

Regarding AJ, I was just doing some standard Deflategate trolling. Null on him. Regarding Laine, my joke votes are never fluff. They are always reaction tests of some sort. Didn't get much from Laine on that one because she's basically doubling down on LAH, but I did get something from Zander. He called my vote a "bad look" which was pretty ridiculous imo. And yeah, I called Hally silly because she was being silly. Keep in mind that much of this was very early, where I use even seemingly trivial interactions to get some reads started.

I missed the “bad look”. I will go back and see if I can find it. Like Cory so nicely said, I’ve been picking his brain repeatedly over Z/Seph on our QT. I should probably do another ISO and see if that helps me.

 

I brought it up because others didn't seem to have moved on. They still haven't as far as I can tell.

And I was trying to figure out whether or not you were one of those, Key.

Ok.

 

Talya because she's been a little bit uninvolved and something she said struck me as being potentially deliberately obtuse. Hally because although her tone is good, she's become better at that as scum recently and I don't like her angle on Kiv's AJ vote.

Re: Talya. I don’t remember, like, anything that she’s done. Which is null to slightly scummy in game this size and this far. What did she say?

 

Re: Hally – I disagree here. I think she is reading pretty town. Plus, my partner can soulread Hally like no one’s business, so I’m good with calling her green.

 

 

Catching up at work, I feel like I like how Wombat is posting, I like the energy, but I don't like his reads. Primarily on Zander/Kiv. Yates is so so town. I dunno yet on Laine, but she feels relaxed to me.

Okay, so what does that mean for you IRT Womby?

I agree on Yates.  Not so sure I agree on Laine.  (It still feels weird to call her that.)