[Advanced] The Usual Suspects Mafia - GAME OVER - COPS WIN

[wish-tree]

 

 

Essentially the issue with larger games is that I have to spend more time reading, which means less time posting, I'm pretty sure you know this?

 

Not buying it

 

 

Reading people without interaction is a skill.  Acquire it.

 

Oooh burn...

Wombat, does that mean BFG is okay to you?

[Kivam]

Apette = female fans of the Ape.  Seems pretty obvious.

 

Oh, the Ape is Integrity28 from JN, who also goes by John McClain here sometimes.  And it's a running joke over on JN that people from DM love him because once upon a time someone here asked John McClain for mafia mentoring.  Add that plus a number of female DMers playing in a JN game with the Ape, and some not voting with him, and you get Apettes

 

[wish-tree]

Apette = female fans of the Ape.  Seems pretty obvious.

 

Oh, the Ape is Integrity28 from JN, who also goes by John McClain here sometimes.  And it's a running joke over on JN that people from DM love him because once upon a time someone here asked John McClain for mafia mentoring.  Add that plus a number of female DMers playing in a JN game with the Ape, and some not voting with him, and you get Apettes

 

................I see.

*doesn't really see*

Uhhh... That's nice, I guess.

[Kivam]

 

 

 

 

 

Ehhh....

I do this, so I have no problem with it. I vote people to make them nervous. What's wrong with it?

I do see the possibility of scum prodding a teammate though, because I've also done that before as scum. That's likely.

 

 

What's wrong with voting people to "make them nervous"?  Literally nothing.

 

What's wrong with voting people in a way that suggests one read, and then later denying having that read and getting defensive about multiple people making that conclusion while simultaneously changing your reasoning for voting them?  Literally everything.

 

Thanks for replying so quickly <3

So, to recap:

1) Because Kivam only voted one person, Pral, that indicates he read Pral as scum.

2) Since Kivam denied that he ever read Pral as scum, saying that it was just the way his mind worked at that time, and it was subjective, he essentially denied the read.

3) ...What was his original reasoning, and what did he change it to? Pretty sure original was prod, right? What was the changed reasoning?

 

 

No, it has nothing to do with him voting Pral.  The vote itself I don't care about.  It's the fact he said "I have seen Pral lurk before as mafia" and voted him for not being around.  If Kiv was just voting him to "summon" Pral, so to speak, then why bother mentioning he's seen Pral do it as mafia?  Just vote him and see if he responds, and treat Pral's inactivity as null (which it is).

 

TL;DR - context suggests pushing for a meta of being a quiet mafia, Kivam denies that and says it was only for a response.

 

 

Because I'm an analyst by nature, and a scum-hunter rather than a town-hunter.  (I think hunting for townies is a sucker's game that good scum will always win; good scum can fake tone and WiM, etc., but that's a separate discussion).  So what I want is content from scum, and my kryptonite is lurking scum.  If Pral is a townie and lurks, it's annoying but not deadly; if he's scum and lurks it's deadly.  Knowing that Pral is a low content poster when he's scum is precisely why I prodded him and not, say, Wombat, who isn't a low content poster when scum, or Jon Snow, who I have no experience with at all.  I'm not sure how many ways there are to say this, or why you thought I was expressing a "read," but that's it. 

 

I see. So, to irritate you, I should lurk. I understand now. :D

 

I'd vote you for being wicked, but WCKD is good.

[Yates]

Alright. I'm read up to here. Don't have time to post all my thoughts but I'll respond to some real time stuff while people are online...

 

@Clov - Okay. But that was just like a little snippet in time you were referring to, then. After hours, mind you. Not my body of work for the game. So I'm not sure the point you were trying to make there and I guess that's why I was confused and, I imagine, why Key said you were misrepping my contributions.

 

@Wombat - Thank you for noticing the snazzy Tom Brady avy. Assumed you would be the one to do it! lol

 

@Wish - No. You have it backwards. Nyn and Hally were already voting Kivish. At the time I was saying I might follow them onto that wagon [sheep them]. I've since changed my mind, fwiw.

 

One thing I wanted to comment on was the Cory, Clov, AJ love triangle thing. Something strange is afoot here. I'll probably reread that whole exchange between Cory and Clov a couple more times tomorrow [if the thread doesn't blow up overnight] to parse out what bothers me about it.

[Sili Quirrels]

 

The first part means that Sili thinks Cory is not all that crazy about AJ.  The second part is me asking if Sili feels the same way, since right after he points out Cory's feelings, he says he agrees with most of what Cory's posted.  I want him to state what he agrees with. 

Okay. Gotcha.

Lol, I'd just never seen 'deject' used in a Mafia context. Are we all emos here? :P

I'm curious too. @Sil

It was a nebulous feeling.

[Kivam]

.....Because half a meta is completely useless.

Because I (apparently incorrectly) assumed you would know not to bring up half a meta, unless you were using it for justification.

 

I apologize.  I shouldn't have expected you to know that all of a meta is also completely useless, unless you're dealing with a crap player, in which case it's useful but also unnecessary.  So we're both at fault for assuming things.

[wish-tree]

Alright. I'm read up to here. Don't have time to post all my thoughts but I'll respond to some real time stuff while people are online...

 

@Clov - Okay. But that was just like a little snippet in time you were referring to, then. After hours, mind you. Not my body of work for the game. So I'm not sure the point you were trying to make there and I guess that's why I was confused and, I imagine, why Key said you were misrepping my contributions.

 

@Wombat - Thank you for noticing the snazzy Tom Brady avy. Assumed you would be the one to do it! lol

 

@Wish - No. You have it backwards. Nyn and Hally were already voting Kivish. At the time I was saying I might follow them onto that wagon [sheep them]. I've since changed my mind, fwiw.

 

One thing I wanted to comment on was the Cory, Clov, AJ love triangle thing. Something strange is afoot here. I'll probably reread that whole exchange between Cory and Clov a couple more times tomorrow [if the thread doesn't blow up overnight] to parse out what bothers me about it.

Ah, okay. Thanks. Can you tell me why you changed your mind (what did Kivish do/not do)?

Coincidentally, I have been playing catchup backwards as well (by reading the pages in reverse order! Wooooo).

[wish-tree]

 

.....Because half a meta is completely useless.

Because I (apparently incorrectly) assumed you would know not to bring up half a meta, unless you were using it for justification.

 

I apologize.  I shouldn't have expected you to know that all of a meta is also completely useless, unless you're dealing with a crap player, in which case it's useful but also unnecessary.  So we're both at fault for assuming things.

 

....Calm down, yo?

[wish-tree]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ehhh....

I do this, so I have no problem with it. I vote people to make them nervous. What's wrong with it?

I do see the possibility of scum prodding a teammate though, because I've also done that before as scum. That's likely.

 

 

What's wrong with voting people to "make them nervous"?  Literally nothing.

 

What's wrong with voting people in a way that suggests one read, and then later denying having that read and getting defensive about multiple people making that conclusion while simultaneously changing your reasoning for voting them?  Literally everything.

 

Thanks for replying so quickly <3

So, to recap:

1) Because Kivam only voted one person, Pral, that indicates he read Pral as scum.

2) Since Kivam denied that he ever read Pral as scum, saying that it was just the way his mind worked at that time, and it was subjective, he essentially denied the read.

3) ...What was his original reasoning, and what did he change it to? Pretty sure original was prod, right? What was the changed reasoning?

 

 

No, it has nothing to do with him voting Pral.  The vote itself I don't care about.  It's the fact he said "I have seen Pral lurk before as mafia" and voted him for not being around.  If Kiv was just voting him to "summon" Pral, so to speak, then why bother mentioning he's seen Pral do it as mafia?  Just vote him and see if he responds, and treat Pral's inactivity as null (which it is).

 

TL;DR - context suggests pushing for a meta of being a quiet mafia, Kivam denies that and says it was only for a response.

 

 

Because I'm an analyst by nature, and a scum-hunter rather than a town-hunter.  (I think hunting for townies is a sucker's game that good scum will always win; good scum can fake tone and WiM, etc., but that's a separate discussion).  So what I want is content from scum, and my kryptonite is lurking scum.  If Pral is a townie and lurks, it's annoying but not deadly; if he's scum and lurks it's deadly.  Knowing that Pral is a low content poster when he's scum is precisely why I prodded him and not, say, Wombat, who isn't a low content poster when scum, or Jon Snow, who I have no experience with at all.  I'm not sure how many ways there are to say this, or why you thought I was expressing a "read," but that's it. 

 

I see. So, to irritate you, I should lurk. I understand now. :D

 

I'd vote you for being wicked, but WCKD is good.

 

<3

I love that musical. (irrelevant)

[Sili Quirrels]

To be clear, I disagree with Cory's read of AJ. I also disagree with his easy clearing of Hallia, but this is typical.

 

I do however agree with his interpretation of AJ in a general way. I think AJ could have more content. He can fake tone.

 

(I wasn't town reading AJ because tone though)

[Kivam]

Anyone else find it funny that Zander stopped answering my questions the second I unvoted him?  That was a reaction test, and I don't like the result.

 

[v]Zander[/v]

[Lenlo]

Len, can I assume that you quoting posts from today means you're all caught up?

I have caught up yes, though it was largely skimming. I hope to go back at some point to reread when im not tired.

[Kivam]

 

 

.....Because half a meta is completely useless.

Because I (apparently incorrectly) assumed you would know not to bring up half a meta, unless you were using it for justification.

 

I apologize.  I shouldn't have expected you to know that all of a meta is also completely useless, unless you're dealing with a crap player, in which case it's useful but also unnecessary.  So we're both at fault for assuming things.

 

....Calm down, yo?

 

I'm calm.  I simply deal snark for snark.  It's my thing

[wish-tree]

It was this post, Cory.

 

Hally, I think that means you have to a

Stay and share.

Hally,real quick. Are you town?

 

And kiv, grudges man... they don't belong in this game. If your town, I don't want any clouded judgement, or a vendetta here.

all it does is cloud things up.for the whole game, so please please dont...

 

It just read increidbly awkward to me.  He's making a joke to Hallia, and then immediately turns around and asks if she's town.  It's like he wants to show that he's comfortable with her but then acts like he's not.  

 

But tbh, it's probably more about Zander than Seph at this point.  I feel his actual contribution to the game doesn't match the amount of posts he has and is just trying to remain visible

1st bolded part- Awkward isn't bad.

2nd bolded part- that's bad.

3rd bolded part- especially with that interpretation.

Why is it more about Zander than Seph, and you quote Seph's post instead of one of Zander's?

[Clovdyx]

 

Len, can I assume that you quoting posts from today means you're all caught up?

I have caught up yes, though it was largely skimming. I hope to go back at some point to reread when im not tired.

 

 

Cool.  Can you show me where you mentioned AJ before, because I can't seem to find it.  Also would love to hear your take on this.

 

 

 

Reads would depend on what else happened in the game, but I ABSOLUTELY would be looking at Pral more closely to see if he's a viable teammate.  

 

Oh JFC okay I wasn't processing what you said correctly and didn't figure out what you were implying

Okay I understand

 

[Clovdyx]

 

I apologize.  I shouldn't have expected you to know that all of a meta is also completely useless, unless you're dealing with a crap player, in which case it's useful but also unnecessary.  So we're both at fault for assuming things.

 

 

OMG I'm dying. You have no idea how hard I'm laughing at this right now.

[wish-tree]

My biggest problem with AJ is that the tone is there but the thought process isn't

 

AJ is a very good "tone faker" as Mafia and sometimes relies on it, I remember him getting to like ~Day 4 in a POG game as a wolf solely on having good tone without actually even doing anything

 

Can see him trying to use it as a crutch as wolf

Okay. Will look for missing thought processes.

 

Who is the best lynch for the day Clov

Why ask Clov? Is he your strongest town read?

 

 

 

Checked back in, read to mid-45, and going to post my first real vote of the game before getting back to work.  I really don't like the way [v]Unvote. Vote:Zander[/v] interacted with me, and particularly the misrep with respect to AtE.  And yes, I did deliberately wait for other people to call it out before acting on it; given the reactions I was getting, it was likely to be dismissed as spin if it just came from me.  Zander, you didn't answer Celeste, or Talya, but maybe you'll answer me and a vote: what did you see in my post as AtE?

 

 

I answered this already.

 

No. You didn't. Your response said nothing about what you saw in that post as an appeal to emotion.  And then you just kept repeating "I answered this already".  So let's try again?

 

Not sure if you answered this, but just answer it again @Zander. Yeahhhh or at least quote the post that you answered this question with.

 

 

 

Fwiw I don't have feelings about Wombat one away another this game, besides finding his multiqyotes worthless. Yates did the same thing last night - quote and reply to posts that don't mean much of anything towards solving the game. Not sure its more than null for Wombat in one way or the other.

AJ said he had a gut feeling about womby, IIRC.

 

Last night Yates might have had a few that weren't much toward the gamesolve, but he also had several after that were prodding and imo were contributing to gamesolve, so why the misrep, here? I'm feeling hella good about Yatesy right now. Especially after his posts today.

 

Wombat's though were ALL fluff. Like I mentioned a page or so back, it makes me wary because this is exactly how he started the last game I was in with him - where we were on a scum team together.

 

I recognize that I have a job to do. Do you think I'm not doing it?

If your job is posting funny gifs, then I do think you are slacking just a tad.

 

 

You must have missed my stuff with Zander, Laine, and Hally then.  Regardless, the number of people trying to read me off of supposed fluff is interesting to say the least.

 

Interesting. I was right. People are reading Wombat off of fluff.

I don't think being fluffy indicates being scummy...?

 

 

Who is the best lynch for the day Clov

 

I'm pretty happy with my vote on Seph/Zander.

 

Has this changed?

 

 

MOD NOTE: CSARMI WILL BE REPLACING BECK

 

Because the one thing this game lacks is someone who will never be caught up but will post more than anyone else.  FML.

 

o.o

 

 

 

My biggest problem with AJ is that the tone is there but the thought process isn't

 

AJ is a very good "tone faker" as Mafia and sometimes relies on it, I remember him getting to like ~Day 4 in a POG game as a wolf solely on having good tone without actually even doing anything

 

Can see him trying to use it as a crutch as wolf

 

Is this meant to be in regards to his overall wolf game, or him this game?  He's been ~fairly quiet this game, but his bigger reads post at least gives something to work with, and I didn't see any glaring logic holes.  "More gut than anything" on Wombat doesn't explain much but I understand where he's coming from IRT Shad/Nyn/Kiv/Mish.  

 

 

I don't really look for "logic holes" on players that have no problem playing the game logically in either alignment

 

It's not exactly difficult to keep a straight narrative and for a lot of players doing so or not doing so is not really alignment indicative

 

I don't remember anything helpful in that reads posts but I'll look again

 

 

Agreed 100%.

 

Who is the best lynch for the day Clov

 

 

 

MOD NOTE: CSARMI WILL BE REPLACING BECK

 

Because the one thing this game lacks is someone who will never be caught up but will post more than anyone else.  FML.

 

 

Well I'm not Clov but I think that answers that.

 

 

uhhhh wut?

[v]Csarmi[/v]

 

????

Explain?

 

 

Who is the best lynch for the day Clov

 

 

 

MOD NOTE: CSARMI WILL BE REPLACING BECK

 

Because the one thing this game lacks is someone who will never be caught up but will post more than anyone else.  FML.

 

 

Well I'm not Clov but I think that answers that.

 

 

[v]Csarmi[/v]

 

I may have changed my mind.

 

lolololol (sorry Zander, noticed that this is your thing, but I like it too)

Why, again?

[Cory Caboose]

Yeah the Kivam/Pral thing from Clov's POV made sense based on [things]

 

I have no real qualms with a Zander/Seph lynch besides ~middling reads on some of the players who are on it

 

I love Zander to death but this has been pretty much him in all roles since his absurd lololol powerbus of Talya in Belicheck and Seph has trailed off

Key's been very paranoid of them in hydra chat and I'm probably mildly biased reading that slot and I accept that about myself

[Cory Caboose]

Yeah the Kivam/Pral thing from Clov's POV made sense based on [things]

 

I have no real qualms with a Zander/Seph lynch besides ~middling reads on some of the players who are on it

 

I love Zander to death but this has been pretty much him in all roles since his absurd lololol powerbus of Talya in Belicheck and Seph has trailed off

Key's been very paranoid of them in hydra chat and I'm probably mildly biased reading that slot and I accept that about myself

[Zander?]

 

 

It was this post, Cory.

 

Hally, I think that means you have to a

Stay and share.

Hally,real quick. Are you town?

 

And kiv, grudges man... they don't belong in this game. If your town, I don't want any clouded judgement, or a vendetta here.

all it does is cloud things up.for the whole game, so please please dont...

 

It just read increidbly awkward to me.  He's making a joke to Hallia, and then immediately turns around and asks if she's town.  It's like he wants to show that he's comfortable with her but then acts like he's not.  

 

But tbh, it's probably more about Zander than Seph at this point.  I feel his actual contribution to the game doesn't match the amount of posts he has and is just trying to remain visible

 

seriously clov???  you read star wars or mass effect man?  i post a lot and no not all of it is game related.  but as you know im more of a gut player.  im comfortable with everyone as you also know away from mafia.  im not great sometimes with how i word stuff but meh i do my best.

 

i think my problem is while others who dont knnow me may have some of thess concerns i feel like you know the difference.

 

 

Actually, no.  I wasn't in mass effect, and while I was in Star Wars, I don't know how you started that game at all - it was 1600 posts in before I subbed.  I saw how you closed out though, and while you weren't always on topic, you definitely hammered your point home.  I don't know if town wins that game without you jumping up and town to get your point across. 

 

I can't fault you for not being THAT adamant yet - it's a day into the game - but I fully expect you would have done something besides fluff and throw out some seemingly empty +1's at this point. 

 

 

Fair enough but also note i didnt jump up and town till then end of the game when I had caught the slip and connection and didnt buy mason.

 

And i have man,  im sorry you dont agree with it or its not as good as others brother but I've prolly have the least amount of exp of all the players here in a 28 player game.  Im playing the way i play and trying to do my best.  It may not be up to everyones standards or skill level but Im trying and that all i can do and its also not even 1/2 through day 1 yet.  Ill get there yet have some faith!!!

[Yates]

Can you tell me why you changed your mind (what did Kivish do/not do)?

I think he responded to my questions [both directly and indirectly] alright. I'm kind of torn on if I should go into detail as to my real thoughts on this because he has sort of said something but not been clear about it and I don't want to feed him a get out of jail free card if I'm wrong. But the basic gist is that some of us made a legit assumption that perhaps wasn't accurate. If that makes sense?

[Cory Caboose]

 

Who is the best lynch for the day Clov

Why ask Clov? Is he your strongest town read?

 

lol

 

I asked Clov because he had literally just finished telling Wombat "I am still sketch of you but I don't think you are the best lynch for the day"

 

I figured he probably had someone on his mind

[keyholder21]

 

 

Fwiw I don't have feelings about Wombat one away another this game, besides finding his multiqyotes worthless. Yates did the same thing last night - quote and reply to posts that don't mean much of anything towards solving the game. Not sure its more than null for Wombat in one way or the other.

AJ said he had a gut feeling about womby, IIRC.

 

Last night Yates might have had a few that weren't much toward the gamesolve, but he also had several after that were prodding and imo were contributing to gamesolve, so why the misrep, here? I'm feeling hella good about Yatesy right now. Especially after his posts today.

 

Wombat's though were ALL fluff. Like I mentioned a page or so back, it makes me wary because this is exactly how he started the last game I was in with him - where we were on a scum team together.

 

I recognize that I have a job to do. Do you think I'm not doing it?

If your job is posting funny gifs, then I do think you are slacking just a tad.

 

 

You're right about AJ.  Gut feeling that Wombat got worked over by RNGesus.  I think AJ's sounded pretty good this far and I like that he's going against the grain a bit with the Wombat vote, but I'm not sure I would follow him there at this point.  I need to more content to judge Wombat on than his quotes.

 

Not sure how you feel I misrepped Yates at all?  He absolutely quoted and replied to a handful of posts last night, and I don't see an argument for any of them being alignment indicative until he finally got back to me about Nyn.  If you felt any of his posts before he directly asked me about her were prodding, I don't know what you're seeing.  The closest thing to actual solving was his post towards Shad about quote clipping, which I don't think means anything for Yates' alignment or Shad's.

 

 

I feel like I already answered this? I'll give you that Yates had several in a row that were fluffy last night, but then he had a bunch that were actually relevant to the game/gamesolve. Your first quote above is a misrep because you lead into the comment about Yates by saying that you find Wombat's multiquotes worthless... Yates did the same thing last night. Implying that he never got to anything about the game when in fact literally 14 minutes after he posted fluff, he started posting game stuff.

 

As far as "any of his posts before" he got back to you about Nyn - what does this have to do with anything? I never mentioned Nyn and in your first quote above neither did you. You implied that he NEVER got around to it.

 

 

[v]Wombat[/v]

 

Seems people are starting to echo my thoughts here.

 

Need to leave for work now, I'll try to peek at the thread throughout the day if I get the chance.

 

Gross.  More probable than not you are generally aware that I'm town.

 

 

I am having a hard time understanding this as it's worded. Are you implying that AJ is scum?

 

*snipped*

 

You must have missed my stuff with Zander, Laine, and Hally then.  Regardless, the number of people trying to read me off of supposed fluff is interesting to say the least.

I went back and looked. I'll concede that at this point in the game you did have a few points about Zander.

 

I see a vote on Laine .....for leaving her vote on the "best hydra ever". How is a joke vote anything but fluff?

 

I didn't see anything about Hally except one quote that you said was silly.

[Cory Caboose]

Fair enough but also note i didnt jump up and town till then end of the game when I had caught the slip and connection and didnt buy mason.

 

And i have man,  im sorry you dont agree with it or its not as good as others brother but I've prolly have the least amount of exp of all the players here in a 28 player game.  Im playing the way i play and trying to do my best.  It may not be up to everyones standards or skill level but Im trying and that all i can do and its also not even 1/2 through day 1 yet.  Ill get there yet have some faith!!!

 

meh

 

the want is strong