British Monarchy Mafia- Game Over, Town Wins!!!

[dicetosser1]

  On 7/15/2015 at 10:48 AM, Eldrick4221 said:

 

  On 7/8/2015 at 10:15 AM, dicetosser1 said:

  On 7/7/2015 at 6:13 PM, John Snow said:

Hardclaiming vig. 

 

Shooting the lowest post count at the EoD. If you want to live, give me more than this 2 posts in 3 days that some people try to get away with. 

 

Dumb idea. what is it with people and their insistence to read based on post counts? Dont quote cory at me either zander. here the problems with the idea

 

a) for someone like me I have a 12 hr delay between me posting and the person its aimed at responding. makes real time responding, which builds post counts, impossible

 

b) its not about QUANTITY it should be about QUALITY of what they post. sili posts towns yet people still cant clear him at times  i can post 5 times sometimnes and people can clear me. its quality you should look for.

 

 

Counterpoint to this. I have effectively the same situation you do, being I post after work, when almost no one is on.

 

  Quote

Zander 143

Eldrick 135

seph 100

Laine 82

JS 68

Hally 64

Razen, Talya 56

Notbob 47

Heart 41

Lotad 33

dice, Tina 24

Pral 15

 

And yet I'm almost the top poster in this game.

 

 

 

  On 7/15/2015 at 4:28 PM, Aiel Heart said:

 

Annoying that these take me so long. Here's part one:

 

dicetosser1

  Reveal hidden contents

Voted Zander for posting in caps and stayed there because of stubbornness

#250 is the first post I noted by him, and while he didn’t explicitly do any linking or direct hunting on thread, I did like the responses he gave. Similar case with #409.

#679 continues to comment and point out inconsistencies on things, gives what I’ve noticed as a first “solid” read which is being not willing to vote me (he had quoted a Tina ISO of me) and has not given a reason as to why this is yet. I am interested in knowing his reasoning as well, but his “crypticness” isn’t a scum tell for him in my perspective. 

#730 willing to lynch Lotad, Razen or Eldrick

#821 responds to Alanna saying there HAD been a progression for his vote on Lotad

#823 thought Zander had good points on Razen

Ok, dice to me is one of “those players” who has a semi-silent play style and tends to be a little cryptic and such in a way that annoys some people but is just a part of how he plays and gathers information and pushes for reads and he’ll give the information that he feels needs to be shared. He can play successfully that way because he is a competent player. So a lot of the things that others are seeing as scummy I chalk up to his playstyle, and while I’m naturally wary of him, I’d rather vote him for inconsistencies in those posts or some such thing. I haven’t seen anything that creates dice-red-flags for me yet, so I’ll leave him as a town lean.

~Post #981 was strange and needs explanation~

~Am nervous that he’s in many ways tied my fate to his~

 

 

 

Then you should be happy cause im town 

[dicetosser1]

  On 7/15/2015 at 9:28 PM, dicetosser1 said:

 

  On 7/15/2015 at 10:48 AM, Eldrick4221 said:

 

  On 7/8/2015 at 10:15 AM, dicetosser1 said:

  On 7/7/2015 at 6:13 PM, John Snow said:

Hardclaiming vig. 

 

Shooting the lowest post count at the EoD. If you want to live, give me more than this 2 posts in 3 days that some people try to get away with. 

 

Dumb idea. what is it with people and their insistence to read based on post counts? Dont quote cory at me either zander. here the problems with the idea

 

a) for someone like me I have a 12 hr delay between me posting and the person its aimed at responding. makes real time responding, which builds post counts, impossible

 

b) its not about QUANTITY it should be about QUALITY of what they post. sili posts towns yet people still cant clear him at times  i can post 5 times sometimnes and people can clear me. its quality you should look for.

 

 

Counterpoint to this. I have effectively the same situation you do, being I post after work, when almost no one is on.

 

  Quote

Zander 143

Eldrick 135

seph 100

Laine 82

JS 68

Hally 64

Razen, Talya 56

Notbob 47

Heart 41

Lotad 33

dice, Tina 24

Pral 15

 

And yet I'm almost the top poster in this game.

 

 

 

 

ok first   so??  you also have this stream of conciousness must type everyhthing i think thing going. Tell me does it make you any clearer to people trying to read you? hint I already know the ansswer to this.

 

B  why bring this up now? that quote is EIGHT DAYS OLD and has no bearing on the game at this time.

[Aiel Heart]

  On 7/15/2015 at 5:13 PM, TinaHel said:

 

  On 7/14/2015 at 2:22 PM, 鲍勃不是我的名字 said:

 

  On 7/14/2015 at 1:24 PM, TinaHel said:

Next one in the BT will be a WoT game.

 

NotBob - could you give us a list?

 

A list of?

 

 

Groceries?   I would like to see your thoughts on all of the players.

 

+1

 

 

  On 7/15/2015 at 9:28 PM, dicetosser1 said:

 

  On 7/15/2015 at 4:28 PM, Aiel Heart said:

Annoying that these take me so long. Here's part one:

 

dicetosser1

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Voted Zander for posting in caps and stayed there because of stubbornness

#250 is the first post I noted by him, and while he didn’t explicitly do any linking or direct hunting on thread, I did like the responses he gave. Similar case with #409.

#679 continues to comment and point out inconsistencies on things, gives what I’ve noticed as a first “solid” read which is being not willing to vote me (he had quoted a Tina ISO of me) and has not given a reason as to why this is yet. I am interested in knowing his reasoning as well, but his “crypticness” isn’t a scum tell for him in my perspective. 

#730 willing to lynch Lotad, Razen or Eldrick

#821 responds to Alanna saying there HAD been a progression for his vote on Lotad

#823 thought Zander had good points on Razen

 

 

Ok, dice to me is one of “those players” who has a semi-silent play style and tends to be a little cryptic and such in a way that annoys some people but is just a part of how he plays and gathers information and pushes for reads and he’ll give the information that he feels needs to be shared. He can play successfully that way because he is a competent player. So a lot of the things that others are seeing as scummy I chalk up to his playstyle, and while I’m naturally wary of him, I’d rather vote him for inconsistencies in those posts or some such thing. I haven’t seen anything that creates dice-red-flags for me yet, so I’ll leave him as a town lean.

~Post #981 was strange and needs explanation~

~Am nervous that he’s in many ways tied my fate to his~

 

Then you should be happy cause im town

 

*Whew* how reassuring!

(Disclaimer: this is a funny)

[dicetosser1]

lol AH

[Aiel Heart]

Btw anyone who didn't like me not voting--I didn't have the time to go back and look at all of the info thoroughly enough to feel comfortable even "shooting from the hip," and I didn't want to place a blind vote. I'm trying to remember what the trains were at the time (will try to remember to look back on that) but if memory serves votes were still pretty scattered when I had to leave.

[Aiel Heart]

Need to take a friend to the ER and watch her son for a bit >.> always something.

[Eldrick4221]

I got called in to work, and don't have time to catch up. Gonna respon to heart's question.

 

Dice is the contender for lynch to me because at first he stubbornly kept voting someone he didn't have as scum (explained as being null). Then there was his lack of participation and refusal to give reads on players outside of his WTL. I asked him multiple times, and still nothing. He isn't helping town.

[Eldrick4221]

  On 7/15/2015 at 9:31 PM, dicetosser1 said:

 

  On 7/15/2015 at 9:28 PM, dicetosser1 said:

 

 

  On 7/15/2015 at 10:48 AM, Eldrick4221 said:

 

 

  On 7/8/2015 at 10:15 AM, dicetosser1 said:

 

 

 

  On 7/7/2015 at 6:13 PM, John Snow said:

 

 

 

Hardclaiming vig.

 

Shooting the lowest post count at the EoD. If you want to live, give me more than this 2 posts in 3 days that some people try to get away with.

Dumb idea. what is it with people and their insistence to read based on post counts? Dont quote cory at me either zander. here the problems with the idea

 

a) for someone like me I have a 12 hr delay between me posting and the person its aimed at responding. makes real time responding, which builds post counts, impossible

 

b) its not about QUANTITY it should be about QUALITY of what they post. sili posts towns yet people still cant clear him at times i can post 5 times sometimnes and people can clear me. its quality you should look for.

Counterpoint to this. I have effectively the same situation you do, being I post after work, when almost no one is on.

  Quote

Zander 143

Eldrick 135

seph 100

Laine 82

JS 68

Hally 64

Razen, Talya 56

Notbob 47

Heart 41

Lotad 33

dice, Tina 24

Pral 15

And yet I'm almost the top poster in this game.

ok first so?? you also have this stream of conciousness must type everyhthing i think thing going. Tell me does it make you any clearer to people trying to read you? hint I already know the ansswer to this.

 

B why bring this up now? that quote is EIGHT DAYS OLD and has no bearing on the game at this time.

I brought it up because I was at that point in my reread. I know I have the stream of consiousness thing, but my point is you could contribute more. People not being around isn't an excuse.

[Eldrick4221]

@Seph

 

I don't see your point. I wasn't scum reading lotad. I wasn't going to vote him simply because I was the counter train. That's just bad. I voted who I thought was scum. I was hoping it would gain ground. I know dice has caught other people's attention too, but not enough to vote apparently.

[Eldrick4221]

  On 7/15/2015 at 3:14 PM, Aiel Heart said:

 

  On 7/15/2015 at 9:01 AM, Eldrick4221 said:

I'm not worried about the votes on me. I'm not important. Yet another game where I roll Vanilla. If I can find some clues as to who the mafia are before you guys lynch me, I will consider my contribution to the team achieved. Not there yet.

 

Step 1: Prove that you're town - Failed

Step 2: Find scum - Failed

*Sigh* I hate it when people do this. Why, Eldrick, why say this now?

 

If you are basically condemned and your lynch would give people info and you are town, then you pull the "I'm only a vanilla, here are my thoughts, go ahead and lynch me" but even then you should be trying to convince them that your scum reads would be a better option than you.

 

Until you get to that point, if you are town, you are a town vote and therefore you are important.

 

Also, you're not the only one that people always find scummy >.>

 

I see this kind of play as an appeal to emotion and pulling a martyr card so early makes me feel uneasy. I've seen you do this as town before, but that doesn't make me like it any better.

 

Ok back to my wall of text...

I am doing that. I've been pushing dice since day 1. I'm apparently not convincing. I'm going through the game. Taking notes. Seeing how reads changed and who is pushing who. I'm looking for a way to contribute. I'm not giving up.

 

It wasn't a "go ahead and lynch me" it was a "it looks like you're going to lynch me because I can't convince you otherwise"

[Hallia]

It seems the bulk of us have pretty much the same people as lock clear.  Most of us feel that way about Razen, Talya, myself, Seph, Pral.  I would add Notbob to that list of pretty secure townies.  I don't really get bad vibes from Tina, or Heart.

 

Lynch rest and gg?

[Aiel Heart]

  On 7/16/2015 at 2:23 AM, Eldrick4221 said:

~snip~

 

I am doing that. I've been pushing dice since day 1. I'm apparently not convincing. I'm going through the game. Taking notes. Seeing how reads changed and who is pushing who. I'm looking for a way to contribute. I'm not giving up.

 

It wasn't a "go ahead and lynch me" it was a "it looks like you're going to lynch me because I can't convince you otherwise"

You are trying to case people. That was one of the things you should be doing.

 

Ok, why drop the claim and why make that comment at all

[Aiel Heart]

Ok, DEFINATELY not functional right now. Three year olds who receive absolutely no structure in their lives... Oi.

 

Ok, have an appointment tomorrow, but we'll see if we can actually get something done here.

 

 

 

And while I'm working on my long detailed reads list--everyone else give current reads lists. We've had a few today. I like reads lists and everyone should post their current one *nodnod*

 

Also, does someone have a tranq gun?

[Eldrick4221]

  On 7/16/2015 at 3:03 AM, Hallia said:

It seems the bulk of us have pretty much the same people as lock clear. Most of us feel that way about Razen, Talya, myself, Seph, Pral. I would add Notbob to that list of pretty secure townies. I don't really get bad vibes from Tina, or Heart.

 

Lynch rest and gg?

I'm ok with that list. I'm iffy on seph, but otherwise would be surprised if that list wasn't all town.

 

I have seph as lower town right now because there have been some things that caught my attention (and laine's).

[Eldrick4221]

  On 7/16/2015 at 4:20 AM, Aiel Heart said:

 

  On 7/16/2015 at 2:23 AM, Eldrick4221 said:

~snip~

 

I am doing that. I've been pushing dice since day 1. I'm apparently not convincing. I'm going through the game. Taking notes. Seeing how reads changed and who is pushing who. I'm looking for a way to contribute. I'm not giving up.

 

It wasn't a "go ahead and lynch me" it was a "it looks like you're going to lynch me because I can't convince you otherwise"

You are trying to case people. That was one of the things you should be doing.

 

Ok, why drop the claim and why make that comment at all

 

Frustration at having trouble finding stuff that's scummy, at almost no one paying attention to my problems with Dice, and at being seen as scum.

 

 A lot of what I say isn't taken the way I intend it to be, and it gets really annoying.

[Eldrick4221]

  On 7/8/2015 at 12:34 PM, alannalynn said:

Zander STOP YELLING AT ME.

 

I do wanna hear from them.

 

Also possibility mafia will kill one for us.

 

As long as ASAP doesn't mean all of D1

Not sure if it is anything. Probably isn't.

 

She said this, and mafia killed her. (Of course assuming the only kill was mafia)

[Eldrick4221]

  On 7/8/2015 at 12:55 PM, Razen said:

JS - He seems like he's playing like he's got nothing to lose, by making a ballsy claim right out of the gate.  It's not behavior I would expect from a wolf.  Take with a grain of salt, though.

 

 

  On 7/8/2015 at 4:28 AM, lord of the dawn said:

so far? John Snow has been acting odd, claiming vig, and then throwing his vote around, it feels like he's trying to provoke something, and of course him not really defending himself all that well. im honestly leaning towards him a bit, but i'm taking a bit of a wait and see approach. get more of a feel for things you know?

 

 

  On 7/8/2015 at 5:47 AM, lord of the dawn said:

jumping right out and claiming that he was a vig straightaway was a bold choice for JS, but he draws a lot of attention to himself like this, i dunno, it just seems like a weird power play to me with no purpose.

 

 

Razen's reaction to JS's claim was strikingly opposite to that of Lotad's, and for basically the same reason. I'm more confident that Razen is town from this.

[Eldrick4221]

  On 7/8/2015 at 1:39 PM, Talya said:

I agree with Razen here, sounds like you want the cop to view you. If you are town why would you want the cop to view you as a wasted night view and not look for others. If you are town, it's your job to act town so the cop can eliminate you from their view list.

 

A cop view on a towny isn't wasted. Viewing scum is better by far, but cleared town are also good to have. Just saying.

[Eldrick4221]

  On 7/15/2015 at 6:48 PM, 鲍勃不是我的名字 said:

Got lazy from the day off plus not a big fan of early player reads.  Mainly because scum like to use other peoples reads as way to make cases.  Late game we have more of a voting record. 

 

That's an interesting outlook on it.  I like other people to post reads when I'm town for similar reasons. It helps in the scum hunting to see what other people noticed. Making cases in inherently null. both sides do it. It's also good to see the read progression, or lack thereof.

[Eldrick4221]

I haven't been giving this game as much attention as I would like to be. There was the day where it was down, and the day before that i just couldn't focus, kept getting distracted. I've only been giving a couple hours a day to it, and am working my way through and taking notes. Once I'm done and have notes to review, I'll have a new shiny reads list for you guys.

 

At this point, I'm confident that Razen is town, and that Dice is scum. Everyone else is a mix of Null and Town leans.

[Razen]

So I've been trying to work on putting together my big fancy reads list, but I fell asleep in the middle of doing that last night.  I need to go back through and see if I can put myself in the same state of mind as I was in while writing it.

 

One thing I can say that stuck out to me without putting myself back in that mind space was Dice's vote on Seph - it's completely unexplained.  Or, at least, it's not explained very well.  It's a very knee-jerk and defensive reaction.  He basically voted Seph for putting him towards the bottom of the read list.  Being prodded to post more isn't a bad thing.  At the very least, if I look at Dice's quality over quantity argument, I would want to see reasoned voting and strong arguments on who he felt was scum when he did post.  Instead, I see an OMGUS kind of vote with nothing behind it.

 

  On 7/15/2015 at 7:59 AM, dicetosser1 said:

So what changed from here

 

 

  On 7/15/2015 at 1:58 AM, seph said:

I am pretty dissapointed in dice iso. I list his posts in the spoiler, that actually have Content. There was a few more but most of them are fluff.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

  On 7/10/2015 at 10:32 PM, dicetosser1 said:

Right so i have been bad and not here  catching up now
 

  On 7/9/2015 at 8:50 PM, dicetosser1 said:

 

  On 7/9/2015 at 10:46 AM, Razen said:

 

  On 7/9/2015 at 7:34 AM, John Snow said:

Well since you guys are unable to scumhunt if I'm not ITT, I'll just shoot all my work and planning to heck.
 
I was waiting from Pralaya. Definitely dodging thread at this point. Was on at 1 pm yesterday, and 10 pm again. Nothing to say in thread. 
 
So here goes. What I was doing this game. 
 
First off, I'm not a vig. I lied. I was kickstarting the game, and seeing who posted differently than normal (see also: my vote on Zander). I wanted to see who was just going to try to fluff their content to not get vigged. 
 
And that was all I was going to do. And then Pral claimed vig. And didn't vote me. Which I thought was weird as hell. 
 
 
But you know, I thought, heck let's see where this goes. And Pral's good with my claim. Which is really weird.
 
So I decided to spend the rest of the day trying to read Pral. My best plan was to see how Pral reacted to me playing poorly. I also wanted to see Pral's reaction to the mason thing. Also, I'm not a mason with Pral. FYI. Not even slightly. 
 
See, it's a solid play as a GF to fakeclaim vig. It's irrefutable. Other than the days you want to "vig" you have your team submit the kills. So I was guessing that Pral might be doing that. 
 
 
Instead Pral has dodged thread. Intentionally and consistently. (Protip: If you want to dodge thread, set your status to always show offline). Now while this isn't the most scummy thing Pral could do, it's the best play for a scum to do. Let the train on me ramp up, let town kill their vig, and get vetted by a townie death. And lose nothing. 
 
 
 
So that's my thought process. Any questions?
 
Also Pral obvscum imo. [unvote] [v]Pral[/v]

I'm confused.  First, you said you weren't the vig.  And then, you're saying that Pral's absence is allowing the train on you to ramp up and let us kill our vig.  You're contradicting yourself here.
 
For what it's worth, I do agree that if he is deliberately avoiding posting in the game thread after browsing when his claim has been questioned endlessly it's that he's trying to hide something.  And I do think it's insanely weird he was ok with your claim too.

 
need to come back to this when i get to work  
 
 
on page 24

 
Jon beat me to it but i think you read this wrong. I took it as without pral there was a vig claim on the table and people were voting it. this is good for mafia if true.  
 
meh that was better worded in my head yesterday
 

  On 7/9/2015 at 5:55 PM, Talya said:

I was trying ti ISO Heart, but the quotes are going weird.
 
So a list instead:
 
First part is a bit fluffy votes Razen and thenunvotes
 
 - Zander feels off  and we should lynch him
 
 
Talks about using vig power and Post count
 
- Qs Zand on Elds idea of not letting them live (JS and Pral)
- Qs Eld why voting before caught up, why dislike JS over Pral
- Asks Zand the question again
- Likes Razen
- Zander Felt different (again she says this), but no ready to dub him scummy
 
finds something curious and likeable about Seph an Eld???
Talks about Hally's lock clear on my and my response, does ask Hally for any other strong tremors
 
- Zand Excitable
 
- Qs NB over JS and Pral and agrees with his vote on Dice
 
- Tells JS channelling EP will not win her trust
 
- Doesn't see Zanders 4 (Snow/Pral/Hally/Tal) as random
 
- Thinks it is possible we have two vigs, so it's not a counterclaim, immediate vote isn't necessary with a cc, but pressure would be and didn't see any
 
One Quote
 
This is odd...now we know what Pral has said. Doesn't automatically mean a link here, but it does mean that Pral could have used this as an excuse. Mod can Wolves talk Day and Night?
 

  On 7/8/2015 at 11:23 PM, Aiel Heart said:

If each of the vigs (my computer keeps trying to correct that to "figs" so if I say something about figs at some point just know that it is probably supposed to say "vigs") had some sort of restriction, I could see that being possible.
 
So that is one possibility out of many. The lack of pressure towards each other between the two claims is interesting (if memory serves, they were almost amenable--will need to read that interaction again) and causing me to think that there is something beyond a counterclaim going on here.

 
 Im not voting heart today
 

  On 7/9/2015 at 6:38 PM, TinaHel said:

 

  On 7/9/2015 at 3:54 PM, Talya said:

How do you know it's not there.
I said maybe a bit of ten foiling hence asking someone for their opinion. Doesn't mean there isn't one, and yet you seem so sure!

 
I don´t know if there is a connection between them. I have both of them as null right now. I just felt that it was a long shot. It was hard for me to see if your were actually trying to figure stuff out or making something up. You have backed away from it so I guess it could be the first one. Now you have some kind of connection between AH and Zander instead and I don´t understand why.
 
For those of you that some kind of meta read on Snow - would he do something like this as mafia?

 
I dont think hed do something that ballsy. I especially dont think as mafia hed come out later on, but before its resolved and while he is getting voted, and claim he is EPing. You know what happens to EP because of his crazy plans?? He gets lynched. My heart STILL wants to lynch JS just because of the EP thing.
 
Thing is i see his play as similar to Yates' in Red Wedding. Only Pral screwed up Nyn didnt
 
 

  On 7/9/2015 at 6:46 PM, Talya said:

 

  On 7/9/2015 at 6:27 PM, John Snow said:

Oh, yeah, @Tayla, it's DM practice that wolves, masons, etc can talk at all times on the QT.

 
Not always, one game recently Wolves could only talk at night, hence why I asked.
 
If you saw my ISO of heart Tina, you would see why, she keeps saying Zander is weird. She's played a couple of games with him, so it is worth noting.

 
Those have been some recent games and are some mods attempt at bringing other sites ways of playing here. theres only been like 3 of those or something
 

  On 7/9/2015 at 6:51 PM, Pralaya said:

 

  On 7/9/2015 at 3:18 PM, TinaHel said:

Just a question - Pral, why did you choose to claim?

 
Well, when JS claimed vig, it initially kinda threw me off. But, then, I speculated him to be town based on the role I had. To be sure of that and to gauge his reaction, I claimed. 
 

  On 7/9/2015 at 6:21 PM, John Snow said:

Sorry, nope, don't buy this. You were behind for 2 days and you just "happen" to catch up when you get called out? Classic scum tactic. 
 
And here's the thing. Me not CC-ing you had me as strong town in your book (assuming, but pretty fair assumption). And there was a train ramping up on me, and you don't think that's the time to pop in and say "I'm not caught up, but this guy is town guys?"

 
The point is that I never knew of the train ramping up on you till I reached that point in my catchup (which was probably after you voted me). Like I said...I can't prove it but those who have played with me before would know I catch up pretty slow.

 
Red   This makes NO sense whatsoever. Especially if you think the guy is town. I will say this straight out I think you screwed this up majorly

  On 7/11/2015 at 9:47 AM, dicetosser1 said:

sigh
 
Eldrick  have you ever seen someone listed as null? cause guess what? thats not a town OR scum reading. thats saying i dont have them as town i dont have them as scum. it happens all the time.
 
 
id be happy going you LOD or razen at this point.

  

  On 7/11/2015 at 10:20 AM, dicetosser1 said:

Actually they were your thoughts Zander. You made good points.
 
 
and my vote on zander sitting there is doing no harm

There is no game solving, the only reads I even see besides the two trains at eod, was heart.
I know you have been busy dice, but I need to see more!

 

 

 

To HERE???

 

  On 7/15/2015 at 4:49 AM, seph said:

Laya
Razen
Tayla
Hallia
Notbob
Tina
Heart
Js
Zander
Dice
Eldrick

I still need to read zand, heart, Tina, hallia. But I feel pretty confident in this list!!
Could actually switch notbob and tina.
[V]Eldrick[/v]

 

 

vote seph

[Pralaya]

Sorry, I tried to catchup on Monday and DM was down. After that I was down for the next 2 days !
 
As I said earlier, I don't think JS is scum. I don't see LoTD trying to bus JS when he could have easily voted me for the same reason. It looked like a clear scum push against him.
 

  On 7/16/2015 at 3:03 AM, Hallia said:

It seems the bulk of us have pretty much the same people as lock clear.  Most of us feel that way about Razen, Talya, myself, Seph, Pral.  I would add Notbob to that list of pretty secure townies.  I don't really get bad vibes from Tina, or Heart.
 
Lynch rest and gg?

 

Anyway, while I agree with Hallia's reads, I disagree about the bolded and the underlined.

While I was re-reading the game, I felt that Razen was playing very safe. During the whole vig claims phase, I didn't se ehim take a strong stance against me/JS and taking a very safe approach in understanding the situation. But, at the same time subtly pushing people against us

Example is this
 

  On 7/7/2015 at 6:35 PM, Razen said:

 

  On 7/7/2015 at 6:27 PM, Pralaya said:

 

  On 7/7/2015 at 6:24 PM, Hallia said:

Oh god, two vigs or we have a c.f.

THUNDERDOME ENGAGE

 
Why cc? Why not two vigs in the game? :)

 

It's possible, definitely.  But it is a legitimate question to wonder if it's a counterclaim, imo.  But you seem to be taking John Snow at his word, which I find interesting.

 

The whole tone of this post is trying to play super-safe, and at the same time making people doubt my claims.
He does the same thing a bunch of times later in the game.

 

 

  On 7/8/2015 at 12:55 PM, Razen said:

I've also started to put together my reads list, and I'm happy with the way's it's going so far.
 
I'm leaning town on:
Seph - just a gut really, but I did like that he doesn't want to get bogged down in the mess between Pral/JS. 
Eldrick - I've liked his posts, they all seem pretty well thought out.
JS - He seems like he's playing like he's got nothing to lose, by making a ballsy claim right out of the gate.  It's not behavior I would expect from a wolf.  Take with a grain of salt, though.
 
Null:
Hallia - Other than her leaning town on Talya (who I don't have enough to read at all) and Zander (see below) I think she's brought up a couple of good points and asked legitimate questions.  I'd lean slightly towards town on her.
Laine - I like that she's engaged with people, but I'm not entirely sure yet as to what side of the fence I'm on with her.  I've liked some of the points she's brought up, but I'm just getting an off feeling in my gut that something isn't as it seems with her.
 
Wolf:
Zander - I just don't like the way he's approached the whole JS/Pral Vig claim.  He comes off to me as trying to eliminate a potential threat to his wolf team by trying to push for the lynch on one of Pral/JS.
 
I have no clue/I need to see more to form an opinion:
Tina
Dice
Lord
Talya
Pralaya
Heart
Not Bob
 
I'd definitely like to hear from those in that fourth section about what their thoughts are about the whole situation.

 

Zander was his only scum read at that point and his reason was that Zander was pushing a lynch at us. This, I think, is again an opportunistic move - especially considering how he has been playing a safe game. It is not that Razen found us townish - all his posts were about him having doubts on our alignment. Yet, he calls out Zander saying he is pushing a lynch on us - as if he knows for a fact that we are town. If he is not sure if we are town or not, how is he calling Zander scum for trying to push a lynch on us?

He does say later that he was prodding him, but he doesn't clear him completeyl - fence-sitting again.

He votes Eldrick after JS reveal and my response. Again, he was not sure if JS was telling the truth or not but still voting Eldrick based on his responses.

Finally, the posts he votes LOTD. This was one of the late votes that LoTD got, almost when it was sure that he would get lynched.
 

  On 7/11/2015 at 7:52 PM, Razen said:

I'm here and I will be later if need be.  I don't like that LotD didn't think to place a vote when he was just here, so that definitely counts against him in my opinion.  Need to take a stand, even if it's just to say I'd rather not be lynched so I'll put my vote on the next guy.  He doesn't seem to be fighting it or putting up much of a defense either.  I'm reading back on him now.

  On 7/11/2015 at 9:04 PM, Razen said:

All right, so, like I said above, I'm getting more a bumbling town kind of read from LotD.  Some of his posts have been really apologetic in tone, and they come across to me as someone who is out of their depth at the moment and trying to swim their way back to safety.  I don't believe that a scum team would have left one of their members out to dry like that.
 
With that said, deadline is approaching, and I'm not inspired by what I've seen so far regarding activity.  I'm not liking all the parked 1 vote trains/no votes either. Right now, I'm not seeing how we get to a majority.  I think it will be interesting to see who changes their vote with the deadline approaching and who leaves it parked where it does nothing.  So I am going to unvote, vote: Lord of the Dawn.

 

That sounds like "LoTD is anyway getting lynched. I will make a post where I find him suspicious and bus him". This came abruptly out of nothing. If he had even said that he is voting LoTD because deadline is approaching and he doesn't want a no-lynch, it would have looked ok. But, this approach was convoluted and I don't think it is genuine.

Re-reading the thread kind of convinces me that Razen is scum here.

[Razen]

This is another copy/paste from my notes sheet, since I really don't want to type it all back up, haha.  I just pulled a list of general observations based on what I read, no quotes included. 

 

Reads List:

Dice –

doesn’t like the Zander/Eldrick post count=town argument.  Argues quality over quantity.

Has he provided a list of reads?  Need to look back and find one, if there.

Dice’s vote on Seph – completely unexplained.  Seems to be a very knee-jerk reaction to Seph poking at him.  Very, very jumpy.  WTL.

 

Zander –

Hasn’t really been progressing reads a whole lot.  Seems to have tunneled on me/John Snow.  Didn’t join LotD or Eldrick votes yesterday.  Want to look at his QFR post and do my own look at John Snow, because I’m not feeling very good about John Snow either.  Does seem to come when mentioned.

 

Heart –

Looking a bit better with her more recent posts, but still not very good.  Did not like the way that she didn’t bother to place a vote yesterday knowing she wouldn’t be back in time.  Explanation for not doing so is also kind of odd – not wanting to shoot from the hip.  Strikes me as cautious.  Perhaps didn’t want to vote knowing her teammates were the lynch targets?

 

Talya –

One of my stronger town reads at the moment.  Her posts are well thought out and I generally agree with what she’s posted.

 

Hallia –

Leaning town.  Was one of the first to push against LotD - doesn't make sense to bus that early.

 

Seph –

Coming across as town to me.  Has a list of reads.  Seems to be town players towards the top and his scum reads towards the bottom.  Reads were explained in a different post from the one in which the list was first provided though.

 

Eldrick –

He’s really all over the place.  Like seriously.  I’m not following a lot of his thought processes.  He’s been cavalier with his vote, it looks like he’s trying to find whatever can stick to use as a justification.  Strikes me as very aggressive in that respect.  Don’t like the whole I’m vanilla town, lynch me if you want, I’m not that useful argument.  Might be on to something with Dice.

 

Tina –

Another stronger town read.  Her read lists seem solid.  I also like the way she is pushing for information from others. 

 

Not Bob –

Hasn’t said a whole lot.  Seems to think that Zander is town based on his one-liners.  Slight town lean, do like his list of reads for the most part.

 

John Snow –

ABSENT.  Hasn’t said anything since the end of the day yesterday.  Was not on the LotD lynch train.  Moved with 1 hour until deadline to a target who was not likely to get lynched.  Interplay with LotD also not looking good to me.  Has not contributed anything today.  Also WTL.

 

Pralaya –

Just posted as I was about to push post, haha.  Will come back to this.

 

Top to bottom:

Razen

Pralaya

Talya

Tina

Hallia

Seph

Not Bob

Zander

Eldrick

Heart

Dice

John Snow

[Pralaya]

Would actually [v]Razen[/v] here

[Razen]

  On 7/16/2015 at 11:20 AM, Pralaya said:

Sorry, I tried to catchup on Monday and DM was down. After that I was down for the next 2 days !

 

As I said earlier, I don't think JS is scum. I don't see LoTD trying to bus JS when he could have easily voted me for the same reason. It looked like a clear scum push against him.

 

  On 7/16/2015 at 3:03 AM, Hallia said:

It seems the bulk of us have pretty much the same people as lock clear.  Most of us feel that way about Razen, Talya, myself, Seph, Pral.  I would add Notbob to that list of pretty secure townies.  I don't really get bad vibes from Tina, or Heart.

 

Lynch rest and gg?

 

Anyway, while I agree with Hallia's reads, I disagree about the bolded and the underlined.

 

While I was re-reading the game, I felt that Razen was playing very safe. During the whole vig claims phase, I didn't se ehim take a strong stance against me/JS and taking a very safe approach in understanding the situation. But, at the same time subtly pushing people against us

 

Example is this

 

  On 7/7/2015 at 6:35 PM, Razen said:

 

  On 7/7/2015 at 6:27 PM, Pralaya said:

 

  On 7/7/2015 at 6:24 PM, Hallia said:

Oh god, two vigs or we have a c.f.

 

THUNDERDOME ENGAGE

 

Why cc? Why not two vigs in the game? :)

 

It's possible, definitely.  But it is a legitimate question to wonder if it's a counterclaim, imo.  But you seem to be taking John Snow at his word, which I find interesting.

 

The whole tone of this post is trying to play super-safe, and at the same time making people doubt my claims.

He does the same thing a bunch of times later in the game.

 

 

  On 7/8/2015 at 12:55 PM, Razen said:

I've also started to put together my reads list, and I'm happy with the way's it's going so far.

 

I'm leaning town on:

Seph - just a gut really, but I did like that he doesn't want to get bogged down in the mess between Pral/JS. 

Eldrick - I've liked his posts, they all seem pretty well thought out.

JS - He seems like he's playing like he's got nothing to lose, by making a ballsy claim right out of the gate.  It's not behavior I would expect from a wolf.  Take with a grain of salt, though.

 

Null:

Hallia - Other than her leaning town on Talya (who I don't have enough to read at all) and Zander (see below) I think she's brought up a couple of good points and asked legitimate questions.  I'd lean slightly towards town on her.

Laine - I like that she's engaged with people, but I'm not entirely sure yet as to what side of the fence I'm on with her.  I've liked some of the points she's brought up, but I'm just getting an off feeling in my gut that something isn't as it seems with her.

 

Wolf:

Zander - I just don't like the way he's approached the whole JS/Pral Vig claim.  He comes off to me as trying to eliminate a potential threat to his wolf team by trying to push for the lynch on one of Pral/JS.

 

I have no clue/I need to see more to form an opinion:

Tina

Dice

Lord

Talya

Pralaya

Heart

Not Bob

 

I'd definitely like to hear from those in that fourth section about what their thoughts are about the whole situation.

 

Zander was his only scum read at that point and his reason was that Zander was pushing a lynch at us. This, I think, is again an opportunistic move - especially considering how he has been playing a safe game. It is not that Razen found us townish - all his posts were about him having doubts on our alignment. Yet, he calls out Zander saying he is pushing a lynch on us - as if he knows for a fact that we are town. If he is not sure if we are town or not, how is he calling Zander scum for trying to push a lynch on us?

 

He does say later that he was prodding him, but he doesn't clear him completeyl - fence-sitting again.

 

He votes Eldrick after JS reveal and my response. Again, he was not sure if JS was telling the truth or not but still voting Eldrick based on his responses.

 

Finally, the posts he votes LOTD. This was one of the late votes that LoTD got, almost when it was sure that he would get lynched.

 

  On 7/11/2015 at 7:52 PM, Razen said:

I'm here and I will be later if need be.  I don't like that LotD didn't think to place a vote when he was just here, so that definitely counts against him in my opinion.  Need to take a stand, even if it's just to say I'd rather not be lynched so I'll put my vote on the next guy.  He doesn't seem to be fighting it or putting up much of a defense either.  I'm reading back on him now.

  On 7/11/2015 at 9:04 PM, Razen said:

All right, so, like I said above, I'm getting more a bumbling town kind of read from LotD.  Some of his posts have been really apologetic in tone, and they come across to me as someone who is out of their depth at the moment and trying to swim their way back to safety.  I don't believe that a scum team would have left one of their members out to dry like that.

 

With that said, deadline is approaching, and I'm not inspired by what I've seen so far regarding activity.  I'm not liking all the parked 1 vote trains/no votes either. Right now, I'm not seeing how we get to a majority.  I think it will be interesting to see who changes their vote with the deadline approaching and who leaves it parked where it does nothing.  So I am going to unvote, vote: Lord of the Dawn.

 

That sounds like "LoTD is anyway getting lynched. I will make a post where I find him suspicious and bus him". This came abruptly out of nothing. If he had even said that he is voting LoTD because deadline is approaching and he doesn't want a no-lynch, it would have looked ok. But, this approach was convoluted and I don't think it is genuine.

 

Re-reading the thread kind of convinces me that Razen is scum here.

First, what do you think about John Snow being absent today?  You seem to be convinced that he is town based on how LotD handled the situation between you and him claiming.  LotD did unvote John Snow after he appeared and explained things.  Could be read as giving his teammate a chance to explain himself in thread satisfactorily and moving pressure elsewhere.  I haven't seen John Snow step up and show why he should be thought of as town either.

 

Second, Zander was voting for one of you at the time when I wasn't sure what to think about your claims, which you're correct about stating.  John Snow hadn't admitted he lied about it yet and Zander claimed to want to hear from both of you before making a judgment, but his vote was already in place on John Snow.  I see that as a contradiction to what he had said.  If you're waiting for an explanation, you don't try and run the person up, do you?  He retroactively passed it off as adding pressure, but his actions didn't add up to me.  He was trying to have his cake and eat it too, which doesn't work very well.