Belichick - Mafia Eternal Night

[BFG]

Rand, if you're a logical player do I need to be worried that you're pushing that as mafia you shoot Verb every time? If you're mafia and Verb is town you never shoot him, you need him as a possible mislynch and you need your limited shots to kill obvious town.

[BFG]

Rand and Verb suddenly not scum reading each other, such a shock. Am I the only one seeing the narrative unfolding ITT??

Seriously village - let's push this lynch through. Confirm Rand for wolf he is and then lynch the crap out of Verb next.

No you're not :)

[BFG]

Rand, if you're a logical player do I need to be worried that you're pushing that as mafia you shoot Verb every time? If you're mafia and Verb is town you never shoot him, you need him as a possible mislynch and you need your limited shots to kill obvious town.

EBWOP

Shoot Verb every time if he's town

[RandA lThor]

Rand and Verb suddenly not scum reading each other, such a shock. Am I the only one seeing the narrative unfolding ITT??

 

Seriously village - let's push this lynch through. Confirm Rand for wolf he is and then lynch the crap out of Verb next.

When did I ever say I didn't scum read him? I literally stated he's still on the top of my scum list.

 

Rand, if you're a logical player do I need to be worried that you're pushing that as mafia you shoot Verb every time? If you're mafia and Verb is town you never shoot him, you need him as a possible mislynch and you need your limited shots to kill obvious town.

The reason I would shoot Verb every time as mafia is because not only do I get rid of a townie, but I save myself from an almost certain lynch.  There's no reason for me to risk myself just for one more possible mislynch.

[Verbal32]

AJ losing his mind ITT.

 

Either that or I'm so wrong on him it's a crime.

[Verbal32]

How is me wavering on a player I voted for wolfy?

 

It's like you guys want to treat indecision as bad all of a sudden. Wolves can't fake indecision very easily.

 

C'mon AJ, don't make me drag you over the finish line. You're saying I'm a wolf no matter what Rand flips. Me wanting to talk through the situation more is hardly something I should be sussed over.

[seph]

still around 27 hours left in the day phase

[Andrej]

AJ losing his mind ITT.

 

 

Losing my mind that this village isn't seeing what's obvious - yeah.

[Andrej]

How is me wavering on a player I voted for wolfy?

 

It's like you guys want to treat indecision as bad all of a sudden. Wolves can't fake indecision very easily.

 

C'mon AJ, don't make me drag you over the finish line. You're saying I'm a wolf no matter what Rand flips. Me wanting to talk through the situation more is hardly something I should be sussed over.

 

Your indecision comes from having to decide which of your teammates to vote in that situation if you ask me.

 

Drag me across the finish line? I'm about to lap you, bro. You aren't doing anything but trying to say your process is villagery although you've provided zero proof of your thoughts and have still yet to begin casing anyone you might think is a suspect. You're treading water, man.

 

I'm actually gonna do you a favor and quote all of Rand's posts from the time you said his lynch was looking to easy to the time you voted him again when Laine was L-1 and then maybe you can point to me where your feelings changed.

[Andrej]

Rand's impending lynch is starting to look too easy.

 

 

 

 

[EDITED]

 

I wasn't here during night, remember I popped in thinking it was day 1, and it was day 2.

 

[EDITED]

 

Tbh... I didn't really click those posts I just figured I'd catch it on my reread.  And I hadn't gotten to the Yates/Hally part yet since I started on page 1, because I thought it might give me a more thorough read.

 

Also, Laine, why are you claiming right now for no reason?

 

Also, that vote seemed a lot like an OMGUS + jump on the BW vote.

 

[EDITED]

 

I actually don't know what that means... it wasn't a term when I was around, Verbal or the other older-timers (I'm not really an old-timer, middle-timer?) can attest to that, I just assumed it meant wolf? wolf/wolf?

 

[EDITED]

 

Ohhh, kinda get it? Lol at the slip that just does not happen, I was actually known for accidentally letting slip I was scum in one game, by literally stating I was scum or something similar.  The best part is that I still won that game.  It was a long time ago, Basel's Executioner Game I think.

 

Btw, working on my reads list, I'm still reading to whoever asked, I haven't forgotten.

 

Ok, so my boss at work just dropped another 10+ hours of work on me, so I'm going to get out what I have so far after finishing page 37.

 

[EDITED]

 

Not really fosing anyone here, but I gotta side with defending Shad here, but not with Shad if that makes sense.  D1, especially early D1, people often grab onto smaller things simply because its all that exists.  Look at what I was doing during d1, which people got mad at too.  I picked up small FoSes, even pointed out that they were small, but people kept getting mad that I was putting people on my scum list for something that was so small.  Introductory reads generally don't have huge reasons, excluding huge slip ups.  Its a way to get the game started.

 

[EDITED]

 

Tbh, I don't see Thane being this obvious as mafia (like others have mentioned).  Its pretty ballsy for mafia to openly OMGUS the person that voted them, especially during D1 when there are so many other directions for a train to go.  I see this as Thane striking out as town.

 

[EDITED]

 

K, this is a little tinfoil, but imo at least one mafia/wolf would want to know why Yates had a scum read on someone if that person was town, because if valid enough, scum would have a reason to bw on the train all the way to lynch town, while having Yates lead it (who we also know is town), as a perfect excuse.  I also believe because of this that Yates wasn't killed by the mafia, because they would have wanted to keep him alive to put the blame on for killing Hally.  Anyways, this leads me to thinking one of Shad and Laine is mafia, and since I have a townread on Shad right now, and a maf read on Laine, I'm leaning towards Laine being mafia.

 

[EDITED]

 

These are some solid reasons, let me do my best to address them.

 

 

Not only that, but she "jokingly" brought up all the other joke votes on her, trying to exaggerate the voting into almost a train that would make people stop voting her and give an opening for maf partners to start questioning the people joining the train like Dice.  Then she can hop on and say, yeah they tried to lynch me in the disguise of joke votes.  That's how it sounded when I read it honestly, for the second time too.

 

[EDITED]

 

OK and these are the last two posts, and I have absolutely nothing solid here at all, but for some reason, my scum radar was going berserk when I read these posts.  I just put these here to see if anyone else has the same reaction, or can quantify/give reasons for what I'm feeling.

 

Anyways, biggest scum reads so far are Laine, AJ, and slightly Talya still.  Also, I'm going to examine my train a little later, but Verbal made a mention about my train being a pure town train.  I call pure BS, there's no way scum isn't going to join a train when they have an easy opportunity to lynch town "just so someone gets lynched that day".  But thats from my POV, even if you think I'm mafia, do you think not a single mafia is going to bus me?  Imo, mafia are, as usual, split on my train, so I'll go through later and look at that.

 

My town reads are also still pretty much the same, I'm hoping thats because I had it right eventually and not because I'm tunneling, but Shad, Thane, Dice, and Zander so far.  Tbh, BFG's null for me, don't get the town hype on her, but I'm still not done yet I guess, and Verbal I haven't seen a post on my read from yet, but its not looking great for him from what I've seen while I'm reading in the current posts.  I'd say very very slight scum read so far with the potential to grow.  Idk if his calling of my train seeming too easy was a scum jump off early, or just normal train analysis.

 

 

Didn't answer all the questions:

 

[EDITED]

 

I'll have to go back and find AJ's quote, I remember something specific that made me go scummy scummy scum scum.

 

You got town cred for it because you actually foudn a legitimate reason it wouldn't work.  AJ ADMITTED not knowing why it wouldn't work, knew there was a possibility there could be an auto town win, and didn't go for it.

 

Umm, a long time ago, so idk, just count it as a no.

 

She keeps bringing up each vote on her repeatedly, saying everyone's going to be voting her for her preferences, sounds like intentional exaggeration to gain sympathy.

 

K gotta go, hope that gave you guys some outlook on my view of the game, I'll do more later tonight

 

[EDITED]

 

Well, I mean I was being honest, not making up some BS, it was honestly just a strong gut feeling...

 

[EDITED]

 

As I said, I tried not to repeat things others have said, but I think the fact that Thane is playing the game rather than trying to act town is plenty enough reason for a town read.  Someone else said nearly the exact same thing iirc, and no one commented on that.

 

[EDITED]

 

Like I said, Im' trying to find new points in my rereads, so that I'm not just boring you guys with info you already know and just sheeping people who already did the work.  And at the same time what I'm saying is someone probably thought Yates was mafia and tried to go for the hero kill and killed a town instead.  I'm still agreeing that Yates killed Hallia, I don't see what so unbelivable about that.  Is it so hard to belive that mafia just used one kill and killed Pral? Also, if there are 13 people starting, and mafia kill one person each night, and we lynch one person each night, and lets say for kicks we're wrong all 4 times, that puts us at 5 people left, 3 of which who are wolves, who now will win.  I can see them only using 1 kill per night, and this night on Pral.

 

[EDITED]

 

Honestly, when I've gone back and read, I'm not looking at Yates/Hally/Pral's reads at all, or very little to be exact.  I'm more going with how other people interacted, when they FoSed or jumped on a bandwagon etc. that's definitely more indicative.

 

 

Anyways, I'm not going to be here at the deadline, and I have to go to sleep now. Unluckily I didn't get any progress on the reread since my car died twice today, which was killer, but I just got back and quickly read everything that is currently happening.  Pretty obviously I'm going to [v]Laine[/v] here since the other option is here, but I've also laid a case out for her (or a few quotes at the least).  And just so no one misses this

 

Laine is now at L-1, next vote will be the hammer on her lynch

 

Also, since I'm not going to be around until after deadline, I'm just going to claim just in case the train goes against me.  I'm Rob Gronkowski (yeeee), 1x vig, unused.  If I do live tonight, I'm planning on using the shot because it looks like I'm going to die anyways the next day, and although I do have my list, I'm fine with being town led AS LONG AS EVERYONE OR ALMOST EVERYONE GIVES THEIR OPINION ON WHO TO SHOOT. I don't want an active mafia majority influencing me on who to shoot.  Anyways, night peeps, I'll probably be on for a few more minutes in case you guys have questions and stuff for me.

 

[EDITED]

 

I mean, I guess Gronk's awesome so he's town? Also Darthe said he gave safe claims to mafia that were randomized from a list, which would mean that there's really no point in juding me off my claim, I just did it for context, plus I like being Gronk.

 

[EDITED]

 

I mean, I'm going to prove it (that I have a kill) tonight so...

 

lol

 

[EDITED]

 

What I'm going to do to people when I vig them

 

 

[EDITED]

 

Yeah, I've already stated some of my ideas, and I'll get more as i read more, but like I said, if town as a whole decides, I'm up to killing them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

My town reads are also still pretty much the same, I'm hoping thats because I had it right eventually and not because I'm tunneling, but Shad, Thane, Dice, and Zander so far.  Tbh, BFG's null for me, don't get the town hype on her, but I'm still not done yet I guess, and Verbal I haven't seen a post on my read from yet, but its not looking great for him from what I've seen while I'm reading in the current posts.  I'd say very very slight scum read so far with the potential to grow.  Idk if his calling of my train seeming too easy was a scum jump off early, or just normal train analysis.

 

hahahahahahaha

 

hahaha

 

haha

 

 

 

No.

 

I feel like Rand should die first, here, and Laine should be vigged tonight.

 

meh

 

 

[v]Rand[/v]

 

 

I have meetings all day, but I'll try to poke back in before noon to move if I need to for a lynch.  Just not ready to hammer yet.

 

Those are all of Rand's posts from the point you mentioned him being too easy of a lynch to the time you decided to vote him again over Laine, our only confirmed wolf, who was at L-1 at the time. He made 13 posts if I counted correctly, and the only one you quoted was his reference to you to substantiate your vote on him.

 

Sort of aligns with Shad's theory that Laine was a better lynch because it was more likely that Rand as a wolf vig had already expended his shot N1 after barely slipping the noose D1.

 

So now that they're laid out - perhaps you can give some more in depth analysis?

[Andrej]

 

Regardless of how Rand flips Verb is still a wolf most likely.

 

Rand = wolf then we know he was lying as an excuse not to shoot Verb.

 

Rand = town then Verb still probably a wolf because of how he handled yesterday's EOD and voted Rand over a confirmed wolf.

 

Still wanna lynch Rand first though

 

Verb = town, Rand is most likely town because mafia wouldn't not shoot town for no reason

 

Verb = wolf then you can go from there, but at least only one more wolf left

 

Btw, working on the case right now

 

Not true. Even if Verb is town you could simply be lying about having a shot because you already fired it N1 when three townies were killed. The fact that you had to come up with a reason for this happening reinforces the idea.

 

Where's that case you were working on?

[Andrej]

^^^^

 

The idea being that you are a wolf who either has used their shot and therefore couldn't kill Verb, or a wolf who wasn't going to kill their teammate.

 

The end result is the still the same though - you're a wolf Rand.

[Andrej]

Question:  do you guys think Rand would stoop to the level of blaming Cloudflare of some technical glitch on why he didn't submit a kill?

 

 

He's either a wolf that used up his shot, or he's a villager who's telling the truth.  But this explanation is pretty bad, which makes me think he might be a villager telling the truth.  I'm back on the fence with him.

 

 

Please nobody hammer Rand until he can come in and present his case on me.  I'm genuinely curious, because I've wavered on him recently.

 

I repeat, no hammer.

 

Oh um, I was actually talking about my case on Talya, AJ, and BFG.  My case on you was pretty simple, low activity combined with an apathetic voting pattern that seemed like it was just jumping on the BW and laying low.  You're starting to look better when you're active, but not to a point where you're not at the top of my scum list.

 

Here we have Rand and Verb both backing away from their previous scum reads on each other. Before this Verb was voting Rand EOD2 and going into D3 Rand had Verb as his #1 scum read.

 

Neither have voted or cased one another - or anyone else for that matter. Apparently Rand has dropped Verb from #1 and instead is focusing his attention on me, BFG and Talya who are ALL have considerable village equity at this point.

 

This is what I meant by not letting them up for air. We have given them a gasp and now they want to get a lungful - you guys need to see this.

[Darthe]

Every time I check this thread I want to respond to it like I'm playing.  Ya'll aren't incredibly chatty but good job keeping the content high.  I like a dense game.

[seph]

:vote darthe:

[Andrej]

 

I think it's Rand/Verb an overwhelming amount of time here.

 

Verb basically doesn't want to work with town on the merit of wifom and Rand is continuing to act as if there is no reason to be suspicious of him. Like it sort of baffles me lol. Ignoring everything and everyone calling you wolf doesn't clear you, bro.

 

Think it through.  If I admit I have a shot, then I'm getting shot that night and I might not be ready for a hero shot.  If I admit I don't have a shot, then I'm probably not getting shot by the wolves in favor of them hunting for other vigs and/or Doc....and I'm probably a PoE lynch candidate at that point.

 

Had I been playing from the start, you'd never be lynching me.  The little I've been able to play this game, however, should be reminiscent of the ME game.  I suggested caution and kept rethinking things - essentially slow-playing it 100% of the time.  I'm either misclearing somebody (which will make me sad), or you're stuck in a tunnel wanting me to be a wolf.  You've played enough with me to know my towntells.  Stop ignoring them.

 

I'm not seeing any towntells. As I stated previously your approach to hard clearing several obvious villagers with your entrance reminds me of you D1 in SW. You've countered this by saying you did the same in ME, which Talya has agreed with. Okay - so that's null then. Not a towntell though. Also - your other dialogue I don't think is alignment indicative. The stuff you discussed with Zander where you give him reasons why Talya is a villager could easily be done if you're a wolf.

 

On the wifom note - to be frank, if you had a shot you probably should've taken it. You were voting Rand at the EOD2 and after seeing Laine flip wolf you should've known that we'd be calling for your head soon enough. Your best bet was to shoot someone (like your scum suspect), pseudo vet yourself or in the best case scenario draw the NK and subsequently be cleared with your flip.

 

 

 

Phase should be ending within the hour btw.

 

Please, please stay focused to my villagers out there. Don't give the wolves any relief - you hold them under water and watch them flounder. No mercy for the enemy.

 

You said essentially the same thing to me yesterday when I wasn't sure about Rand.  I eventually went back there and voted, and now you're casing the hell out of me.  Do you see the disconnect?

 

The only disconnect that I am seeing is that you missed the pages of casing Shad and I did on Laine when she went from L-4 to L-2 before Rand voted her and then I hammered the next morning. Sure - you may have wavered in your read on Rand a bit, but apparently you ignored all of the other evidence we had presented on Laine because when you went back to Rand you pulled a singular quote of his to use as your point.

 

You went from Rand = wolf, to Rand = not so wolfy and ignoring evidence presented on the next lynch candidate who yourself pointed out looked wolfy, to back to Rand when you had the opportunity to hammer a now confirmed wolf.

 

 

The 2nd and 3rd posts there are a day apart.  With AJ suggesting we stay the course, and the pages in between those posts, it isn't that difficult to imagine me changing my mind about the order in which they should die.  I even voted Rand to complete the consistency there.  The only disconnect you can see if me thinking maybe Rand is a villager and Laine is the wolf instead of both wolves....but I went back to the original thought process (again, that AJ asked me to do), and voted Rand.

 

I'm not going to repeat this again.  Pay attention to the consistency and ignore the "mind-changing", which is certainly more indicative of a villager trying to see all angles than it is a wolf going for low hanging fruit.

 

I'm not sure why you continue to reiterate the point that I asked you to stay the course. I don't control you or who your vote, you can draw your own conclusions. It seems to me that you're trying to pass the buck for responsibility because you missed out on being on the lynch of a dead wolf.

 

Underlined: As I stated previously, the pages between your original statement to your vote were full of me and Shad hammering Laine for her wolfiness. I also quoted all of Rand's posts so that you could give more insight on where your mind changed. On the note of your consistency in going from Rand is a villager and Laine a wolf instead of both wolves and then back to Rand being a wolf (and by proxy Laine still being a wolf?) why wouldn't you vote Laine in that situation when she was in hammer range? If you still thought both could be wolves then voting the one that was going to be lynched would've been the proper play.

 

All of this really isn't adding up. You said yourself that one of your strongest towntells is being the voice of reason and frankly I'm not seeing it here. This all sounds like hogwash and you trying to play damage control.

 

 

 

I realize I add too many adverbs to my sentences.

 

Verb you don't essentially need to find two wolves. You do.

 

And Rand wasn't essentially begging us. He was.

 

No, we do.  We as in the collective village.  Stop trying to pin this on one person.

 

I am pinning it on you. The collective village has been working all game. The POE currently is you and Rand. You have backed away from your read of Rand to being back on the fence, but I don't see you presenting anyone else as a candidate.

 

If it's not you, and you're unsure Rand is one - then who? There's still two wolves at large and I don't see you doing any sort of hunting for them.

 

 

 

Regardless of how Rand flips Verb is still a wolf most likely.

 

Rand = wolf then we know he was lying as an excuse not to shoot Verb.

 

Rand = town then Verb still probably a wolf because of how he handled yesterday's EOD and voted Rand over a confirmed wolf.

 

Still wanna lynch Rand first though

 

You know better than this, AJ.

 

If Rand is a villager, then you need to entertain the thought that I was simply wrong.  I was leaning Rand early, started wavering, and then went back to the original thought.....WHICH YOU SUGGESTED THAT I DO.  Stop ignoring that and placing blame on me.  It makes you look silly.

 

If Rand is a wolf, then it doesn't matter which I voted, right?  It means I was right early on, incorrectly wavered, and then correctly voted a wolf (even though we lynched another one).

 

The only thing that looks silly is you continuing trying to point back to me telling you to stay the course when there were several more pages of development afterwards and a complete shift in the thread and vote count to who was getting lynched. You must've seen this because when you quoted Rand in the post you voted him for this was in the middle of the entire discussion.

 

Underlined: In a vacuum voting one wolf over the other when both wagons are scum would be okay. But in context to how D2 played out, it wasn't the proper one from a villager mindset. If you thought both could still be wolves, then voting for the one getting lynched was the right move over placing it on the one that wasn't. This aligns with Shad's theory of why Laine needed to be lynched first - which you advocated against and suggested instead that she should be vigged, in essence allowing her to potentially shoot again if her shot wasn't already spent before she died.

[Andrej]

Every time I check this thread I want to respond to it like I'm playing.  Ya'll aren't incredibly chatty but good job keeping the content high.  I like a dense game.

You're dense

[Talya]

 

 

Regardless of how Rand flips Verb is still a wolf most likely.

Rand = wolf then we know he was lying as an excuse not to shoot Verb.

Rand = town then Verb still probably a wolf because of how he handled yesterday's EOD and voted Rand over a confirmed wolf.

Still wanna lynch Rand first though

 

 

Verb = town, Rand is most likely town because mafia wouldn't not shoot town for no reason

 

Verb = wolf then you can go from there, but at least only one more wolf left

 

Btw, working on the case right now

 

Not true. Even if Verb is town you could simply be lying about having a shot because you already fired it N1 when three townies were killed. The fact that you had to come up with a reason for this happening reinforces the idea.

 

Where's that case you were working on?

I agree with this. Also the bit about Verb not shooting.

 

Verb - who do you think is wolf, do you still think that Rand is still wolf, why aren't you voting him if that is the case. Tell me who you top reads are and why. You started off doing this and it did look ok, give us your reads and reasons.

 

Rand - where are those cases you were doing because I haven't seen much from you about it. I believe this has been asked many times

[BFG]

Good morning :)

[BFG]

I think we have this in Verb/Rand but if we're wrong this is the best time for me to claim.

 

Hardclaim: Town doc (Ryan Fitzpatrick)

 

Assuming mafia still have a shot left and we're currently 6v2 then town have 3 mislynches/vig shots before mafia reach parity.

 

Claiming now removes the chance of them gambitting when they're closer to winning.

 

I think we have it, this is a just in case claim :)

[BFG]

I'll likely hammer before I get to London, but I want to spend a bit of time reading Day 2 again first

[Andrej]

I think we have this in Verb/Rand but if we're wrong this is the best time for me to claim.

 

Hardclaim: Town doc (Ryan Fitzpatrick)

 

Assuming mafia still have a shot left and we're currently 6v2 then town have 3 mislynches/vig shots before mafia reach parity.

 

Claiming now removes the chance of them gambitting when they're closer to winning.

 

I think we have it, this is a just in case claim :)

 

[BFG]

Told you your heart was safe <3

 

:)

[Talya]

Perfect...this really helps narrow down. I thought Verb might claim it.lol

 

<3 BFG

[BFG]

People always tinfoil on me when I'm town I think I need to work out what I do as mafia that makes people town read me then