House of Cards

Nynaeve · May 29, 2015

I'm too sleepy to continue with ISOing so I'll do Wombat and AJ tomorrow. And they're going to love it.

Clovdyx · May 29, 2015

I've read Clov's posts and I don't have much to add beyond what I already said. He did have some good posts. In some it felt like he was prodding for the sake of prodding. I'm not sure how I feel about his pushes (ie Cass and dice). Feels a bit too easy. And something about him feels off to me. It bothers me that I can't really articulate this better. The 'tude was kinda weird too, but I might just be pointing it out cause I found it incredibly irritating.

With that said, I have a track record of screwing up and mislynching him as town. So I'd really like to hear other people's take on him.Also I hope Halli will manage to come around after work and voice her concerns, as I know she had some.

This is a serious question, and I'm only trying to be half as much of an asshole as it's going to make me sound like.

Do you think it's wrong of me to read the really obvious townies as town? Or should I push them just to avoid going after the two or three people at the bottom?

From my point of view, some of your obvious townies aren't obvious townies at all. And I can't help but tinfoil when your obvious townies are mostly people that won't be easy to push. It just seems a bit convenient.

I thought Darthe/You/Kaylee all head great odds to be town yesterday (AJ and Cory to a lesser extent). We know Darthe was town, and the fact he's dead means either Tress is town, or mafia decided to kill somebody they knew wasn't the cop. Cory made a post that he was probably killed for a combination of cover and being really obvious town, and I can't help but assume the mafia would have killed ANOTHER really obvious town that had cop equity.

Take the dead guy and his peek off, and that leaves Verbal, Leelou, and you that I'm sure about. I'm not lynching the first two, and I'm pretty sure you don't want me to lynch that third one.

So...who am I wrong about?

Cass · May 29, 2015

I have to run in a few min, but I plan on being available via phone for EOD. Just in case, I'm going to place my vote now.

[v]Sooh[/v]

There's not a lot to go on with Verb wrt Sooh. Prior to voting he points out Sooh's OMGUS, mentions that he doesn't like Sooh's 'If I was wolf' defence and hinges strongly on the concept of AtE. The responses are all valid enough, and I can understand the sting of being burnt by AtE, even if I found the whole story about his AtE potentially just AtE. Feeling wary.

/Snip

@ Sooh: I didn't feel it was worth responding to

You feel horribly condescending this game so far.... Don't think I like it...

I'm not going to agree or disagree with this, but I am going to point out the OMGUS nature of it.

Yeah guys think about this logically!

I tried to stir the pot D1 you shouldn't be looking at me!

Maybe I'm the seer, who knows?

These are almost verbatum from her post.

We can go ahead and may Sooh now. It won't actually do anything but you'll all get warm fuzzies from it.
By all means, go ahead. My only plan today was to give my team something to work with for later. That's all.

I intend to. You recognize that you're doing the opposite of what you should be doing as town, right?

Then enlighten me... I thought the purpose was to find tells as to who are wolves and not in this game. I've not been very successful in the past, so I'm trying out something new. I am Town in this game, but I do understand your push on me. At this point I feel you pushing me almost makes you the clearest Town around. Like I tried saying in my post, I'm more wary now of the people who DON'T have me as wolf...

If you notice I still haven't placed my vote. I don't have anywhere clear enough to put it yet. If I was wolf, would I care? Or would I just place my vote somewhere and see if it would stick?

I followed your post until the bold, which I don't like. I've used that defense as a wolf plenty of times, and have seen others do it as well.

I agree with all of this except 'I followed your post until'.

My major issue with Sooh is that my heart really wants her to be a villager and I'm finding that harder to ignore

This might make no sense to ANYONE but I am going to be extremely disappointed if she's a wolf and this was her approach to "clearing herself" as a wolf - abusing guilt tactics and emotional manipulation. So I want to believe she's a villager so I don't have to deal with that disappointment.

But that wanting doesn't make her a villager, and that's where my heart is torn.

I took something Mish told me once to heart - "play a beautiful game", because there's no pride in winning a game dirty like that.

I want to expound on this for a minute. I play on JN as well, and I know you're familiar with a player named the Ape there - he repped JN in the Champs games last season.

Some time last year, I was in a JN game and was a villager. I had Ape as a major wolf read, and was actively pushing for his lynch. His responses made me more and more sure of my read, and I got a little excited about lynching the biggest loud mouth on the site, lol. Well, once I stepped up my campaign, he snapped and lashed out hard with AtE. Very hard. He went into how he snapped at his wife because of the game, yadda yadda.

Needless to say, I immediately dropped it and actually cleared him as a result. I know you're not doing that here, but I'm making a point (that I'll get to in a min). I said that he would never do this as a villager for the same reasons you gave above - playing clean and using those emotional tactics and the disappointment I'd feel if he did it. I was not willing to accept he could be a wolf, and dropped my campaign.

I ended up dead not long after, and wolves ended up winning the game.....and he was a wolf. I was so pissed at that moment that I almost quit playing on JN altogether. It still stings to this day, and for that reason I will be more than happy to lynch players that use excessive AtE. Fear mongering is fine, whatever. But AtE is lame. No offense to you, Sooh, but I can't accept that you'd no longer want to be an active player because so many people are disagreeing with you. I want you to be comfortable - we all do. But saying this in-game is obviously AtE whether you intend it that way or not. Due to my own experience on it that I've just explained, I'm going to not feel bad at all voting you towards EOD.

I'm not voting yet, because I still could be persuaded to vote Cass or Wombat. Cass due to what I was talking about in my last post, and Wombat from the mini case I made on him earlier today. Those 3 are my WTL pool for today, with the added caveat that I highly doubt Sooh & Cass are w/w.

AtE about AtE?

dicetosser1 · May 29, 2015

Random question: Which of you ladies in here know how to change a tire?

Me! Wasn't allowed to sit for licence until I could prove to my parents I could do it myself. Does it matter that I've never changed one cos I have a motorbike instead?

@AJ youscumming on me?

Vote: Sooh

Tone of those posts where she was defending herself is off. She willnow brin up the fact that i always find her scummy.

Torn on this one. The AJ question throws me, but I can actually see TownDice saying all of the bold, and an aggressive early vote on a gut read without first questioning the person he votes is something I accept from TownDice. I 100% accept his reasons for being less active D1. Waiting on more Dice coming through D2.

The question has sort of become a standard thing between Dice and me when we play nowadays. He tends to decide early and quickly where he is with me and then we proceed from there.

Ok. Quick and early Dice I understand as Town. Just to clarify: Him asking you that question is a common part of how he makes his decision?

It can be. Remember Dice = gut and AJ = someone i found 3rd party off a one word post. Him answering tat question can sometimes nudge me in the right direction

I've read Clov's posts and I don't have much to add beyond what I already said. He did have some good posts. In some it felt like he was prodding for the sake of prodding. I'm not sure how I feel about his pushes (ie Cass and dice). Feels a bit too easy. And something about him feels off to me. It bothers me that I can't really articulate this better. The 'tude was kinda weird too, but I might just be pointing it out cause I found it incredibly irritating.

With that said, I have a track record of screwing up and mislynching him as town. So I'd really like to hear other people's take on him.Also I hope Halli will manage to come around after work and voice her concerns, as I know she had some.

This is a serious question, and I'm only trying to be half as much of an asshole as it's going to make me sound like.

Do you think it's wrong of me to read the really obvious townies as town? Or should I push them just to avoid going after the two or three people at the bottom?

I think you should be considering that you are wrong on at least one of them as I know you are wrong on me.

WWWwombat · May 29, 2015

Random question: Which of you ladies in here know how to change a tire?

Take off the lug nuts before jacking the car up

Random question: Which of you ladies in here know how to change a tire?

Take off the lug nuts before jacking the car up

Very good

That's the lesson I plan on teaching my son one day when I teach him how. I'll make him jack it all the way up first and then try to break the torque.

Anyway - was just wondering because I had to go play super dad and save my girlfriend's day by changing her tire so she could make it to work on time.

I'm here for the next couple hours and have no plans for tonight after work.

Full size spares are the best imo.

Nynaeve · May 29, 2015

We can't really argue about Verbal, because if I remember right you have him as your peek. And I'm not sure about AJ at all. Still have to read his content. Wombat is a question mark and so are you. So the argument that from your POV Cass and dice are likely scum from a strictly POE consideration.... is awesome and all.... but it doesn't really work for me.

Can you explain the first paragraph? I don't really understand what you mean. Why does Darthe being town mean Tress is town? And why do you think Darthe didn't have cop equity?

Nynaeve · May 29, 2015

That was @ Clov

Clovdyx · May 29, 2015

I've read Clov's posts and I don't have much to add beyond what I already said. He did have some good posts. In some it felt like he was prodding for the sake of prodding. I'm not sure how I feel about his pushes (ie Cass and dice). Feels a bit too easy. And something about him feels off to me. It bothers me that I can't really articulate this better. The 'tude was kinda weird too, but I might just be pointing it out cause I found it incredibly irritating.

With that said, I have a track record of screwing up and mislynching him as town. So I'd really like to hear other people's take on him.Also I hope Halli will manage to come around after work and voice her concerns, as I know she had some.

This is a serious question, and I'm only trying to be half as much of an asshole as it's going to make me sound like.

Do you think it's wrong of me to read the really obvious townies as town? Or should I push them just to avoid going after the two or three people at the bottom?

I think you should be considering that you are wrong on at least one of them as I know you are wrong on me.

Would you believe me if I said this isn't the first time I've heard this, and that I don't believe you would just admit to being mafia if I'm right?

Still waiting on an answer to my previous question btw.

WWWwombat · May 29, 2015

[v]AJ[/v]

Get off the sidelines, bruh.

Legit though Wombat, I think you could be a wolf this game. I would appreciate you trying to assuage that impression.

Basically where I'm at with you. Either you are a wolf or we need to get on the same page I guess.

Nynaeve · May 29, 2015

I have to run in a few min, but I plan on being available via phone for EOD. Just in case, I'm going to place my vote now.

[v]Sooh[/v]

There's not a lot to go on with Verb wrt Sooh. Prior to voting he points out Sooh's OMGUS, mentions that he doesn't like Sooh's 'If I was wolf' defence and hinges strongly on the concept of AtE. The responses are all valid enough, and I can understand the sting of being burnt by AtE, even if I found the whole story about his AtE potentially just AtE. Feeling wary.

/Snip

@ Sooh: I didn't feel it was worth responding to

You feel horribly condescending this game so far.... Don't think I like it...

I'm not going to agree or disagree with this, but I am going to point out the OMGUS nature of it.

Yeah guys think about this logically!

I tried to stir the pot D1 you shouldn't be looking at me!

Maybe I'm the seer, who knows?

These are almost verbatum from her post.

We can go ahead and may Sooh now. It won't actually do anything but you'll all get warm fuzzies from it.

By all means, go ahead. My only plan today was to give my team something to work with for later. That's all.

I intend to. You recognize that you're doing the opposite of what you should be doing as town, right?

Then enlighten me... I thought the purpose was to find tells as to who are wolves and not in this game. I've not been very successful in the past, so I'm trying out something new. I am Town in this game, but I do understand your push on me. At this point I feel you pushing me almost makes you the clearest Town around. Like I tried saying in my post, I'm more wary now of the people who DON'T have me as wolf...

If you notice I still haven't placed my vote. I don't have anywhere clear enough to put it yet. If I was wolf, would I care? Or would I just place my vote somewhere and see if it would stick?

I followed your post until the bold, which I don't like. I've used that defense as a wolf plenty of times, and have seen others do it as well.

I agree with all of this except 'I followed your post until'.

My major issue with Sooh is that my heart really wants her to be a villager and I'm finding that harder to ignore

This might make no sense to ANYONE but I am going to be extremely disappointed if she's a wolf and this was her approach to "clearing herself" as a wolf - abusing guilt tactics and emotional manipulation. So I want to believe she's a villager so I don't have to deal with that disappointment.

But that wanting doesn't make her a villager, and that's where my heart is torn.

I took something Mish told me once to heart - "play a beautiful game", because there's no pride in winning a game dirty like that.

I want to expound on this for a minute. I play on JN as well, and I know you're familiar with a player named the Ape there - he repped JN in the Champs games last season.

Some time last year, I was in a JN game and was a villager. I had Ape as a major wolf read, and was actively pushing for his lynch. His responses made me more and more sure of my read, and I got a little excited about lynching the biggest loud mouth on the site, lol. Well, once I stepped up my campaign, he snapped and lashed out hard with AtE. Very hard. He went into how he snapped at his wife because of the game, yadda yadda.

Needless to say, I immediately dropped it and actually cleared him as a result. I know you're not doing that here, but I'm making a point (that I'll get to in a min). I said that he would never do this as a villager for the same reasons you gave above - playing clean and using those emotional tactics and the disappointment I'd feel if he did it. I was not willing to accept he could be a wolf, and dropped my campaign.

I ended up dead not long after, and wolves ended up winning the game.....and he was a wolf. I was so pissed at that moment that I almost quit playing on JN altogether. It still stings to this day, and for that reason I will be more than happy to lynch players that use excessive AtE. Fear mongering is fine, whatever. But AtE is lame. No offense to you, Sooh, but I can't accept that you'd no longer want to be an active player because so many people are disagreeing with you. I want you to be comfortable - we all do. But saying this in-game is obviously AtE whether you intend it that way or not. Due to my own experience on it that I've just explained, I'm going to not feel bad at all voting you towards EOD.

I'm not voting yet, because I still could be persuaded to vote Cass or Wombat. Cass due to what I was talking about in my last post, and Wombat from the mini case I made on him earlier today. Those 3 are my WTL pool for today, with the added caveat that I highly doubt Sooh & Cass are w/w.

AtE about AtE?

*laughs*

dicetosser1 · May 29, 2015

clov in regards to lynching you i will probably hold off. I dont trust my read as just being a read. If a bunch of people which seems to be the case vote you then I will cause at least then i know its not my attitude voting.

Clovdyx · May 29, 2015

We can't really argue about Verbal, because if I remember right you have him as your peek. And I'm not sure about AJ at all. Still have to read his content. Wombat is a question mark and so are you. So the argument that from your POV Cass and dice are likely scum from a strictly POE consideration.... is awesome and all.... but it doesn't really work for me.

Can you explain the first paragraph? I don't really understand what you mean. Why does Darthe being town mean Tress is town? And why do you think Darthe didn't have cop equity?

Darthe was killed after "peeking" Tress. If she's mafia, she (and her team) decided to shoot somebody they KNEW wasn't the cop - because Cop!Darthe wouldn't have gotten a Tress town peek N0 - over somebody that COULD be the cop.

I do think Darthe had cop equity. Tress being mafia would have given him no cop equity.

Does that make sense?

WWWwombat · May 29, 2015

Extremely high % of finding a wolf(ves) in

Wombat

Cory

Clov

Cass

imo

Need to sort this bunch asap.

Batting .500 max here. More likely .250 imo. Your D-Backs namesake is raking on my fantasy team btw. Get on his level or concede?:(

Cass · May 29, 2015

Ok. Quick and early Dice I understand as Town. Just to clarify: Him asking you that question is a common part of how he makes his decision?

I suppose it could be. He doesn't ask me something like that every game - but generally I think Dice will have me sorted somewhere before D1 is over, whether that be town or scum.

Ok. I highlighted his question more to figure him out than you tbh. It just made me pause. He's someone I like to try and figure out quickly. Null for now.

Cory Caboose · May 29, 2015

I think you're investing there more than you should. Cory would probably post something like that as either alignment - and there's the fact he legitimately dislikes playing as a wolf and would feel bad about killing Sooh regardless imo.

For post-game, you're actually pretty wrong here about me as a player. The one thing I find it really, really hard to replicate as a wolf is the human element of my game. I bare it all as a villager - just about how I value transparency above all else and I sometimes get myself into tense spots just because I'm like that.

You've never read me this poorly. I thought it was villagery for you to come @ me hard on day 1, but honestly I don't know anymore. I think you might be overplaying your hand at this point.

Nynaeve · May 29, 2015

Darthe was killed after "peeking" Tress. If she's mafia, she (and her team) decided to shoot somebody they KNEW wasn't the cop - because Cop!Darthe wouldn't have gotten a Tress town peek N0 - over somebody that COULD be the cop.

I do think Darthe had cop equity. Tress being mafia would have given him no cop equity.

Does that make sense?

It makes sense. Ty.

Nynaeve · May 29, 2015

Sorry, the whole seer cover topic isn't really my forte.

Clovdyx · May 29, 2015

Darthe was killed after "peeking" Tress. If she's mafia, she (and her team) decided to shoot somebody they KNEW wasn't the cop - because Cop!Darthe wouldn't have gotten a Tress town peek N0 - over somebody that COULD be the cop.

I do think Darthe had cop equity. Tress being mafia would have given him no cop equity.

Does that make sense?

It makes sense. Ty.

Sorry, the whole seer cover topic isn't really my forte.

I get that, and I'm glad you asked. You actually showing an interest in trying to understand my position just makes me that much more assured you're town and misreading me, rather than mafia trying to find a reason to keep pressure on me.

Cory Caboose · May 29, 2015

Clov - on Kaylee, I think what was REALLY villagery for her is that she was pretty ~consensusly townread for making some good early posts and prodding, and never really let up after that. I agree that I'm not 100% down on her reads but I think as a wolf she coasts a little more after being townread and here she just kept trucking on in her specific way. It's the kind of postings I've seen her making as a villager before as well as a player and spec. Everything seems genuine.

WWWwombat · May 29, 2015

@ Wombat - Which votes didn't you like on Sooh's train at the time you responded to Kaylee's question?

Mostly Dice, but Verb and AJ too.

WWWwombat · May 29, 2015

[v]Cass[/v]

Verbal and Leelou are town, and Tress and Nyn are close enough to treat them as clear. I'm confident enough with AJ/Cory/Kaylee to not lynch them right now. Honestly, there's probably one mafia in between the three of them - I should doubt I went 3/3 at the start of the game by just naming the inactives.

List some pros and cons on all three?

Sure. You've seemed generally interested in solving the game, and you've not been afraid to go against the consensus to make your doubts about strong players known. I don't really have much of a downside for you, unless you've scummed it up since the flip.

Cory's frustration and confusion seemed legitimate on D1. You were right to say that he would feel bad killing Sooh if he were mafia, but I think he'd feel worse pushing somebody he really likes if he's town. Pretty sure he was the runaway leader in posts. I know he can be a high effort wolf, but convincing tone is hard to sustain. He might be fooling me again, but I'll gamble that I'm right.

Main reason for trusting Kaylee was she just seemed committed to understanding where people were coming from D1. The questions she was asking seemed to have a town motivation behind them. Of the three, she has the biggest knock against her in that I didn't really agree with some of her reads, but nothing was so out of place I can't attribute it to seeing the game differently than me.

How does anyone have this guy as scum?

WWWwombat · May 29, 2015

I'm too sleepy to continue with ISOing so I'll do Wombat and AJ tomorrow. And they're going to love it.

BartScottCantWait.gif?

Cory Caboose · May 29, 2015

fwiw I know a lot of you are "covering" him but Verbal fakepeeking me set off big alarms in my head as him potentially trying to placate me today

Clovdyx · May 29, 2015

@ Wombat - Which votes didn't you like on Sooh's train at the time you responded to Kaylee's question?

Mostly Dice, but Verb and AJ too.

I think I've made my stance pretty clear on Dice's vote, but what stood out to you about Verb/AJ's votes? I didn't really pay much attention to Verb's, and AJ's obviously wasn't scummy enough to catch my attention. I'll go back and re-evaluate his in case I'm wrong, though.

WWWwombat · May 29, 2015

I have to run in a few min, but I plan on being available via phone for EOD. Just in case, I'm going to place my vote now.

[v]Sooh[/v]

There's not a lot to go on with Verb wrt Sooh. Prior to voting he points out Sooh's OMGUS, mentions that he doesn't like Sooh's 'If I was wolf' defence and hinges strongly on the concept of AtE. The responses are all valid enough, and I can understand the sting of being burnt by AtE, even if I found the whole story about his AtE potentially just AtE. Feeling wary.

/Snip

@ Sooh: I didn't feel it was worth responding to

You feel horribly condescending this game so far.... Don't think I like it...

I'm not going to agree or disagree with this, but I am going to point out the OMGUS nature of it.

Yeah guys think about this logically!

I tried to stir the pot D1 you shouldn't be looking at me!

Maybe I'm the seer, who knows?

These are almost verbatum from her post.

We can go ahead and may Sooh now. It won't actually do anything but you'll all get warm fuzzies from it.

By all means, go ahead. My only plan today was to give my team something to work with for later. That's all.

I intend to. You recognize that you're doing the opposite of what you should be doing as town, right?

Then enlighten me... I thought the purpose was to find tells as to who are wolves and not in this game. I've not been very successful in the past, so I'm trying out something new. I am Town in this game, but I do understand your push on me. At this point I feel you pushing me almost makes you the clearest Town around. Like I tried saying in my post, I'm more wary now of the people who DON'T have me as wolf...

If you notice I still haven't placed my vote. I don't have anywhere clear enough to put it yet. If I was wolf, would I care? Or would I just place my vote somewhere and see if it would stick?

I followed your post until the bold, which I don't like. I've used that defense as a wolf plenty of times, and have seen others do it as well.

I agree with all of this except 'I followed your post until'.

My major issue with Sooh is that my heart really wants her to be a villager and I'm finding that harder to ignore

This might make no sense to ANYONE but I am going to be extremely disappointed if she's a wolf and this was her approach to "clearing herself" as a wolf - abusing guilt tactics and emotional manipulation. So I want to believe she's a villager so I don't have to deal with that disappointment.

But that wanting doesn't make her a villager, and that's where my heart is torn.

I took something Mish told me once to heart - "play a beautiful game", because there's no pride in winning a game dirty like that.

I want to expound on this for a minute. I play on JN as well, and I know you're familiar with a player named the Ape there - he repped JN in the Champs games last season.

Some time last year, I was in a JN game and was a villager. I had Ape as a major wolf read, and was actively pushing for his lynch. His responses made me more and more sure of my read, and I got a little excited about lynching the biggest loud mouth on the site, lol. Well, once I stepped up my campaign, he snapped and lashed out hard with AtE. Very hard. He went into how he snapped at his wife because of the game, yadda yadda.

Needless to say, I immediately dropped it and actually cleared him as a result. I know you're not doing that here, but I'm making a point (that I'll get to in a min). I said that he would never do this as a villager for the same reasons you gave above - playing clean and using those emotional tactics and the disappointment I'd feel if he did it. I was not willing to accept he could be a wolf, and dropped my campaign.

I ended up dead not long after, and wolves ended up winning the game.....and he was a wolf. I was so pissed at that moment that I almost quit playing on JN altogether. It still stings to this day, and for that reason I will be more than happy to lynch players that use excessive AtE. Fear mongering is fine, whatever. But AtE is lame. No offense to you, Sooh, but I can't accept that you'd no longer want to be an active player because so many people are disagreeing with you. I want you to be comfortable - we all do. But saying this in-game is obviously AtE whether you intend it that way or not. Due to my own experience on it that I've just explained, I'm going to not feel bad at all voting you towards EOD.

I'm not voting yet, because I still could be persuaded to vote Cass or Wombat. Cass due to what I was talking about in my last post, and Wombat from the mini case I made on him earlier today. Those 3 are my WTL pool for today, with the added caveat that I highly doubt Sooh & Cass are w/w.

AtE about AtE?

How is Verb's anecdote AtE?

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