House of Cards

[Leelou]

Can some of you tell me how many wolves are in

 

Darthe

Verb

Cory

Clov

Wombat

Andrej

 

multiple responses appreciated

 

up to 2

[Hallia]

 Correh; I'm alive, and feel better than I did yesterday, though that isn't saying much.  Only caught up through page 20.

 

Something nags at me in this interaction though.

 

 

@AJ youscumming on me?

 

 

Vote: Sooh

 

Tone of those posts where she was defending herself is off. She willnow brin up the fact that i always find her scummy.

 

 

[v]AJ[/v]

 

 

 

@AJ youscumming on me?

 

 

Vote: Sooh

 

Tone of those posts where she was defending herself is off. She willnow brin up the fact that i always find her scummy.

 

This is bad post btw.

 

 

 

 

 

@AJ youscumming on me?

 

 

Vote: Sooh

 

Tone of those posts where she was defending herself is off. She willnow brin up the fact that i always find her scummy.

 

If Sooh was modspewed as town right now, who else would you be interested in lynching today?

 

right now? AJ

 

 

I'm continuing on.

[Darthe]

Leelou 

 

[Cory Caboose]

How I'm not the most obvious villager in this game is beyond me

[WWWwombat]

EOD in just over 4 hours.

 

Kaylee n0 peek (V)

 

Top 3 are Sooh, Tress, Dice.  Got my eye on AJ and Cass.

[Cory Caboose]

Okay I might be second to Nyn

 

Do you guys want me to lead this thing or not?

 

Like is much as I enjoy scraping my knees for all of you it's putting on wear and tear that's going to limit my durability and I'll start dancing behind the line of scrimmage so no more 2000 yard seasons

[WWWwombat]

Shoulda gone with baseball imo.

[Darthe]

Okay I might be second to Nyn

 

Do you guys want me to lead this thing or not?

 

Like is much as I enjoy scraping my knees for all of you it's putting on wear and tear that's going to limit my durability and I'll start dancing behind the line of scrimmage so no more 2000 yard seasons

I'm pretty comfortable with us all maintaining this round table-esque thing we got going on atm.

[Sooh]

Call my initial read on Tress wishful thinking I guess.. She's firmly a null with you  now in my reads. 

 

I feel like Cory/Clov/Darthe has maybe a wolf among them.

 

Dice/Cass may be one or two wolves. Going after Cass seems to be more or less the consensus though, so I'm not entirely comfortable with it. Nor am I comfortable calling Dice a wolf when he hasn't had a real chance to  catch up or anything.

 

Bewbs/Kaylee are my top town.

 

Verb/Wombat are tentative town for me at the moment. 

 

Who am I missing? Oh yeah... AJ... I have no idea where to place him... maybe light town with Verb and Wombat?

[Sooh]

I will quite possibly not be here for EOD though. I have to get up early tomorrow and EOD is at 2am I believe for me.

[Cory Caboose]

CC2K

 

Unless you think I should be next in like for Tommy John

[Cory Caboose]

Goodbye Poot :(

[Cass]

Last one, and then I'm going to bed for at least an hour's sleep before RL and EoD.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wolfy:

 

Darthe - forceful on early Seer cover, ?explanation in post #54, both defending/distancing from Nyn, 'pre-vote' /overly hard push on Sooh

Why is any of the bold wolfy?  Ignore the part about Nyn for purposes of your response, please.  Just comment on the Seer cover and the push on Sooh.  What of that was wolfy?

 

 

I've explained the Darthe and Seer cover thing in response to Clov here (See the last two paragraphs of the intro and the final spoiler if you missed it). 

Basically it's not the Seer cover itself I find wolfy, it's the way Darthe made posting it early such a big thing and simultaneously admitted/downplayed the potential for incorrect early cover to be more beneficial to Scum trying to find the real Seer. Basically the concern is a potential role-fishing push to encourage a higher percentage of incorrect cover.

 

The Darthe on Sooh push felt wolfy because:

 

1. Darthe was the first to vote and the vote felt overly eager - He voted in the 'stumping' phase, where votes didn't count, and when questioned brushed it off as 'pre-vote' for the day, which didn't feel sincere;

 

 

Day 1 Starts at 9PM EST and will last 48 hours:

 
You may now begin stumping.  Day does not start until 9:00PM EST.  Votes will not count during the stump period.  This is a good time to make alliances and grease palms...
 
/snip

 

 

/snip

[v] Sooh [/v]

 

 

Pre-voting for day Leelou

 

 

 

2. I disagreed with the generalisations that went with the vote and there was otherwise no specific reasons given or effort at interaction made:

 

/Snip

However, I think Sooh is definitely wolfing this round.  She is usually a pretty pure townie.  [v] Sooh [/v]

 

Sooh has been repeatedly pushed as not Townie early on in all the games I've played recently with her, so I completely disagree with the rationalisation that she's 'usually a pretty pure townie'.

This was all the involvement Sooh had in the game up until that vote, none of it seems investigative on Darthe's behalf, and none of it  feels decidedly off for Sooh's early game, enough to vote, to me:

 

 

 

Hi everyone! 

 

I will be scarce Thursday because I have an exam, and Friday because I'm overseeing someone else's exam. Other than that I should be fine 

 

Happy visits to Vegas, Leelou! Sounds fun!

 

 

Lol I already love this game. 

 

 

 

 

I'm a little sad Cory isn't showering me with love, but I guess I'll deal with it...

 

 

Weee!!!! Happy now! 

 

 

 

I'm still gonna lunch you though  

 

 

Ok.. warning accepted, Cory.

 

 

 

I'm a little sad Cory isn't showering me with love, but I guess I'll deal with it...

Prob a slightly wolfy intro

 

AJ I have read your soul and found it needs more content

 

 

 

 

Wombat, Cass, Dice scumteam.

Soulread?

 

Or is it just the Aussie theme?

 

 

 

 

**snip**

 

I'm pretty okay at mafia sometimes, Sooh, but I don't think I can soulread people who haven't posted.   

 

Yeah... I suppose even you can't... Oh well... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. This post, as an example, states something that you've run with for the entire time that you've had me as a wolf read.  You're not basing your read of me on my actions, you're basing it on your beliefs of what I meant by my actions and your interpretations of my play.  

 

2. You disagree about early seer cover despite having limited/no real experience with it.  A) Okay then, what about my push for it makes me more likely to be a wolf?  B) You didn't like it or that you believe it's likely to pan out worse for the town?  Differing philosophies doesn't equate to wolfiness.

 

3. A)What's wrong with voting quickly?  B)If I had waited would it have made me more town? C)"Brushing it off" was similarly a judgement, not something based in what I did but in your impression of me.  Same with insincere.

 

4. I voted without giving a reason you approve of and that is wolfy somehow?  How?  I gave a reason, it worked and I had provided content related to the lynch earlier which you disregard and even scoff at as evidenced in 1.  If this is somehow a wolf tell you're going to loathe every experienced or knowledgeable player forever.

 

5. A) I tend to read Sooh quite well, the exception being a time that she was an SK.  She plays a very newbie oriented game but she also posts exactly like one. B) Here she's clearly doing differently.  C)Again I have to point out that you don't have issue with what I say, you have issue with your paranoid interpretation of my statements.  

 

 

6. This is how much I can show in one post.  I wouldn't go through all of this effort if I didn't think that you could be a townie here and that you're frankly mismanaging your game.  There has to be a limit to the amount that you allow yourself to WIFOM the meaning and content of a post and accept that sometimes when someone says something, most of the time actually, they mean exactly what they say.  A good part of that is even in interpreting what they mean when they say something that doesn't seem quite right.

 

Read, Assess, Classify, Categorize, Review

 

We need an acronym for this.  RACCR isn't very good.  

 

 

*Numbers/letters added to each point for reference.

 

 

1. I'm basing my read of you as potentially wolfy on actions you committed that I believe have a higher chance of being motivated by scum alignment than Town. I can accept that my 'read' is then inherently shaped by my interpretations. So what? Everything in the entire world is based on perception and interpretation, why or how should mafia be any different?

 

2.

A) I was really, really specific in my response to Clov on his question about why I found you pushing hard for cover to be left early to be more likely to come from wolf. There were two main parts - Early cover increases the chance of incorrect 'peeks' being left, and you admitted this, downplayed it and continued pushing for it hard anyway.

B) I believe it's likely to pan out worse for Town.

 

As for the rest, no, us having differing philosophies doesn't equate to you being wolfy here but I'm entitled to my interpretation of how you pushed it. Also, don't try and discredit me for having limited/no real experience with Seer cover - Monstr was my first ever mentor and we discussed Seer cover and the various pluses and minuses of it to a really large extent. Just because I have limited in game experience using it myself does not mean that I don't understand it or have an opinion on the different ways it can be used. Of all the 'mechanical' type game things, this is the one I feel I understand the best.

 

3. 

A) In some cases quick voting can be indicative of eagerness to start an easy train. Eg. Wombat on Sili in Warehouse 13. B) Probably not. C) Yes, 'brushing it off' and 'insincere' were the vibes I got from you in those posts. 

 

4. Yes, you gave a 'reason' and it was mostly rhetoric: 'Prob a slightly wolfy intro' followed by 'I think Sooh is definitely wolfing this round'. The only explanation was 'She is usually a pretty pure townie'.  Yes, I find this is a tactic which can be easily exploited by wolves. Yes, I know it's also used by people when they're Town. That's what makes it work for wolves.

 

5. A) Thank you for your explanation on how you normally read Sooh. I can't comment on 'newbie oriented game' but I feel I've got an understanding for her early posts myself. B) Again no comments on whether it's newbie-orientated or not. I disagree that her early posts were unusual for her compared to her recent games, I agree that 'something' switched up later on and that at present she doesn't feel entirely right. C) Actually, I did/do have an issue with what you said and it came from the disagreement in our read of her early on. I've said as much. My interpretation of your actions and the way you voiced your opinion add to that, but they're a separate issue.

 

6. All fair enough for now, and I agree that there needs to be a limit to WIFOM. I have trouble with the first bold because it doesn't relate to wolves. I disagree with the second part because interpretation in those instances isn't  instant. When something doesn't seem quite right the next step is to highlight and/or question it, which is what I've been doing with you.

 

The 'Assess' part of your RACCR involves multiple steps - internal assessment/interpretation, external testing (through highlighting/questioning etc) and then final assessment and interpretation. Again, what I feel I've been doing more of this game, even if I don't do it your way or skillfully yet.

[WWWwombat]

Call my initial read on Tress wishful thinking I guess.. She's firmly a null with you  now in my reads. 

 

I feel like Cory/Clov/Darthe has maybe a wolf among them.

 

Dice/Cass may be one or two wolves. Going after Cass seems to be more or less the consensus though, so I'm not entirely comfortable with it. Nor am I comfortable calling Dice a wolf when he hasn't had a real chance to  catch up or anything.

 

Bewbs/Kaylee are my top town.

 

Verb/Wombat are tentative town for me at the moment. 

 

Who am I missing? Oh yeah... AJ... I have no idea where to place him... maybe light town with Verb and Wombat?

 

That wolf trifecta doesn't look too good to me.

[WWWwombat]

CC2K

 

Unless you think I should be next in like for Tommy John

 

Position players get the p4p3r br0.  Start at corner infield then go DH for the last 5-10 years.

[WWWwombat]

 

That wolf trifecta doesn't look too good to me.

 

 

Like srsly it looks like a list of "who would be the best anti-spew targets?"

[Cory Caboose]

Was thinking more Catcher to 1B

[WWWwombat]

Catcher will wear you out quicker than anything else.

[Sooh]

 

Call my initial read on Tress wishful thinking I guess.. She's firmly a null with you  now in my reads. 

 

I feel like Cory/Clov/Darthe has maybe a wolf among them.

 

Dice/Cass may be one or two wolves. Going after Cass seems to be more or less the consensus though, so I'm not entirely comfortable with it. Nor am I comfortable calling Dice a wolf when he hasn't had a real chance to  catch up or anything.

 

Bewbs/Kaylee are my top town.

 

Verb/Wombat are tentative town for me at the moment. 

 

Who am I missing? Oh yeah... AJ... I have no idea where to place him... maybe light town with Verb and Wombat?

 

That wolf trifecta doesn't look too good to me.

 

Maybe not, but to me it makes sense right now... 

[Leelou]

Sooh, who would you vote for right now? 

[WWWwombat]

Hi Leelou.  What's with your scum reads on me and Clov?

[Cass]

Done for now. 

 

In case day abruptly ends before I get back -

 

If I'm the Seer the n0 I received was !TownTress!

[Hallia]

Up through page 25, did not like Sooh's way of going about trying to defend herself.

 

 

There was a lot of back and forth on Verb, he is coming across to me as town.

[Leelou]

Hi Leelou.  What's with your scum reads on me and Clov?

 

Hi Wwwwwwwwwwwwwombat. 

 

You don't feel as if you are really into the game. Like I said, lots of scolding going on. How do you feel about AJ right now, or anyone else that you have voted for this phase? 

[Leelou]

As for Clov, I'm not really liking his pushes. I want to actually interact with him and see if my read changes or not.