[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread

[Thane Vakarian]

so, D1 was about seer cover, D2 about SK hunting... can we already vote what D3 will be about? *sigh*

[Darthe]

  On 11/17/2014 at 2:02 PM, WWWwombat said:

If I'm right on what I think the "obvious" is, Salami, I don't see the omission as being significant in this setup.

 

I would like to see AJ respond to Kivam because the SK holster idea was pretty bizarre imo.  That being said, AJ still looks pretty town!AJ outside of his interactions with Kiv and idk if I would vote AJ today or not.

 

I don't get why everyone is clearing Nyn, but I don't see her as scummy so not a big deal I guess.

What are you talking about in the first sentence?

 

I think AJ looks like town AJ in general and his interactions with Kiv don't seem different.  The holster argument isn't one I'd make but I also don't think it's alignment indicative.

 

Can you think of anything Nyn has done that has pinged you?  Her cases look good too.

[Darthe]

  On 11/17/2014 at 2:05 PM, Thane Vakarian said:

so, D1 was about seer cover, D2 about SK hunting... can we already vote what D3 will be about? *sigh*

Depends on if we find the SK =p

[Thane Vakarian]

why are people actually debating wether we should find the SK first or the wolves? combine the effort and try to find everybody, not focus on a specific target. Might be harder, but it's worth the pay if it works. 

[Nynaeve]

  On 11/17/2014 at 2:02 PM, WWWwombat said:

I don't get why everyone is clearing Nyn, but I don't see her as scummy so not a big deal I guess.

 

Prolly a case of boobsconfbias.

[Darthe]

  On 11/17/2014 at 2:14 PM, Thane Vakarian said:

why are people actually debating wether we should find the SK first or the wolves? combine the effort and try to find everybody, not focus on a specific target. Might be harder, but it's worth the pay if it works. 

 

Who do you have pegged for each slot?

[WWWwombat]

  On 11/17/2014 at 2:11 PM, Darthe said:

 

  On 11/17/2014 at 2:02 PM, WWWwombat said:

If I'm right on what I think the "obvious" is, Salami, I don't see the omission as being significant in this setup.

 

I would like to see AJ respond to Kivam because the SK holster idea was pretty bizarre imo.  That being said, AJ still looks pretty town!AJ outside of his interactions with Kiv and idk if I would vote AJ today or not.

 

I don't get why everyone is clearing Nyn, but I don't see her as scummy so not a big deal I guess.

What are you talking about in the first sentence?

 

I think AJ looks like town AJ in general and his interactions with Kiv don't seem different.  The holster argument isn't one I'd make but I also don't think it's alignment indicative.

 

Can you think of anything Nyn has done that has pinged you?  Her cases look good too.

 

 

 

Need to know basis, Darthe.  Either Salami knows what I'm talking about or he doesn't.  I didn't like the arguments Nyn was making wrt Thane and Cass considering that she had null reads on both.  So those were definite pings imo.  Overall, she's a town lean though.

 

I'd also like to hear more from Pralaya.  I still think he's town but I don't like how he's done nothing other than defend himself.

[Darthe]

  On 11/17/2014 at 2:19 PM, WWWwombat said:

 

  On 11/17/2014 at 2:11 PM, Darthe said:

 

  On 11/17/2014 at 2:02 PM, WWWwombat said:

If I'm right on what I think the "obvious" is, Salami, I don't see the omission as being significant in this setup.

 

I would like to see AJ respond to Kivam because the SK holster idea was pretty bizarre imo.  That being said, AJ still looks pretty town!AJ outside of his interactions with Kiv and idk if I would vote AJ today or not.

 

I don't get why everyone is clearing Nyn, but I don't see her as scummy so not a big deal I guess.

What are you talking about in the first sentence?

 

I think AJ looks like town AJ in general and his interactions with Kiv don't seem different.  The holster argument isn't one I'd make but I also don't think it's alignment indicative.

 

Can you think of anything Nyn has done that has pinged you?  Her cases look good too.

 

 

 

Need to know basis, Darthe.  Either Salami knows what I'm talking about or he doesn't.  I didn't like the arguments Nyn was making wrt Thane and Cass considering that she had null reads on both.  So those were definite pings imo.  Overall, she's a town lean though.

 

I'd also like to hear more from Pralaya.  I still think he's town but I don't like how he's done nothing.

 

 

I'm now more curious about the Salami thing.  Argument against Nyntown?

 

FTFY btw.

[Thane Vakarian]

"Pegged" is a big word. "Suspicious of being" is more like it. That being said, i think it's easier to say who i believe firmly town, and the rest can be either wolf or SK for that matter.

 

My townies: AJ, Cass, Dice, Nyn, Wombat, Desmi, myself. 

 

imo, pure on instinct, most likely SK is one of these: Darthe, Kivam, Krak, DPR or Rags. They'd manage to look townie enough as SK and get away with it.

 

Rest of the hooligans is not cleared for me and still possible wolf 

[WWWwombat]

Think I'm gonna shut up for a bit.  Gotta charge my laser if I wanna lead another lynch.

[Darthe]

  On 11/17/2014 at 2:26 PM, Thane Vakarian said:

"Pegged" is a big word. "Suspicious of being" is more like it. That being said, i think it's easier to say who i believe firmly town, and the rest can be either wolf or SK for that matter.

 

My townies: AJ, Cass, Dice, Nyn, Wombat, Desmi, myself. 

 

imo, pure on instinct, most likely SK is one of these: Darthe, Kivam, Krak, DPR or Rags. They'd manage to look townie enough as SK and get away with it.

 

Rest of the hooligans is not cleared for me and still possible wolf 

How did you decide who didn't have SK equity?

[Nynaeve]

No one appreciates my humor :P

[Thane Vakarian]

they'll probably hate me for it, but i just don't think that they'd manage to be convincive as townie while SK.... 

[Andrej]

There's really nothing for me to explain about the SK rationale. As I said before I was exploring hypotheticals and in this case to fit the idea of someone holstering I had to choose between four possible shooters. As I explained earlier I doubt wolves don't use their shots and looking from my POV as an alternating Night Vig I wouldn't want to miss my opportunity to get a shot off either. So that left the SK. Does that necessarily fit with what a SK should do? Perhaps not but what everyone considers the optimal play doesn't make it play out as such, nor do I even really think this happened - which I have wasted more than enoigh time reiterating. Furthermore this hypothetical argument has literally zero to do with my alignment.

 

What is important, however, is that Kivam continues to display a knack for using dubious logic to push his cases. Nothing about a theory for an unlikely scenario makes me scum. Wanting to avoid the topic when it has become a distraction almost certainly doesn't. The same sort of thing was shown D1 with his "reaction test" vote on Sili which turned into an info lynch later on.

[DPR]

  On 11/17/2014 at 2:34 PM, Nynaeve said:

No one appreciates my humor :P

 

Maybe it wants to sit at the outcast's table with me & Kiv's logic.

[Nynaeve]

  On 11/17/2014 at 2:39 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

 

  On 11/17/2014 at 2:34 PM, Nynaeve said:

No one appreciates my humor :P

 

Maybe it wants to sit at the outcast's table with me & Kiv's logic.

 

 

It does if you're buying

[DPR]

  On 11/17/2014 at 2:55 PM, Nynaeve said:

 

  On 11/17/2014 at 2:39 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

 

  On 11/17/2014 at 2:34 PM, Nynaeve said:

No one appreciates my humor :P

 

Maybe it wants to sit at the outcast's table with me & Kiv's logic.

 

 

It does if you're buying

 

 

It would be the only thing I'm buying this morning. 

[Nynaeve]

lol

[Pralaya]

Caught up after the weekend. So, this is where I am right now. 
 
 
Despot / csarmi Hydra - pretty much lock town for me. Don't agree with some of his reads but the amount of effort he has been putting is good and is typical scumhunting Des. Csarmi also hasn't stood out as scum at all. 
dicetosser1 - Mostly feeling town because of the "seer cover" post by yates. His votes have not been very opportunistic and in general his posts are in align,ent with the meta that I have of him
Nynaeve (Mentored by Clovdyx) - Although her vote on me doesn't make sense, I feel her overall gameplay has been good and reasonable. I agree with some of her other reads - especially verb/barm. Looking more like the town Nyn I know
Darthe - Felt his posts sounded genuine, especially his FoS on yates for his gameplay.
Tress - Mainly a town read on her due to the fact that I mentioned in this post. 
 
Krakalakachkn - I liked his post on D1 where he gives out his reads. He was one of the early vote on Sili and pretty much stuck to his read.
Kivam -  I liked his recap posts but at the same time I am wary of large psots because it is easy to hide within that. But, not much stood out there so far and I feel good about him. 
Andrej - seems to be quite frank about what he wants to do. Like this post where he says he wants to lynch inactives. Don't see scum AJ be so straightforward

TheRagnarok - Has looked fine, especially his posts where he is questioning those who has a town read on him. Need more posts from him though 

 

Hallia - Not much from her other than catch-up posts. Null on her.
DreadPirateRoberts - Have not played with him before and his posts seem to be slightly nudgy but other times focusing on solving the gameplay. Kind of not sure about him at the moment.
Cass (Mentored by manbat) - Again, her long catch posts look good and takes serious work. One post stood out for me. She was one of the very few people who called out Yates as scum for the "seer cover" and that sounded strange to me. She is a new player and is mentored by monstr who knows what yates was doing. Still calling him out as scum so early sounds like distancing. But, still since her other 
WWWwombat - Definitely didn't like the end-game play yesterday night. His initial vote on Sili looked more like evening up the wagons and creating an alternate lynch.  But his gameplay otherwise has been slightly better and like DPR, not very sure about his alignment. 
 
Thane Vakarian - Unlike Nynaeve, Thane has not provided specific reasons for finding me scum and just tunneling up on me. This doesn't look like his town play at all. Des made a good point with a similar vein here
Verbal32 / Barmacral Hydra - I like Nyn's case on Barm and even through my read I kind of felt the same reading the thread. Too many nudges to count  - like this on Sili, or on Andrej, or on me
 

[Pralaya]

I don't necessarily follow all these discussions about SK. It is a bit too early to speculate on which was the scum kill and which was the SK kill. And, I find it mostly distracting talk. 

[DPR]

So, I wonder if I might propose a bit of a compromise here. 

 

We've divided into two camps - the "logic" camp and "tone reading camp". Personally, I don't consider tone reading or real time interactions to be of any tangible benefit. These methods are the equivalent of the police no longer bagging evidence and just asking suspects what happened instead. 

 

There is also some slagging of methods going on here - "clinical" being the term du jour to describe the opposite of friendly or compassionate. 

 

I have made fun of the one, and certainly others have mad fun of the other. It's all in the game.

 

But, we are all playing this particular game. If we were on Oprah's dream forum then I could see the point in sharing our feelings about things. We're not. I don't, and to watch proven town winning techniques being ignored and discouraged because people have confused a mafia game for a popularity contest is just too bad. There is no win in that.

 

The compromise is this: let's combine and compare methods and see if that doesn't work a little bit better. I'll put away my shovel and brightly colored outfit if others will take off their blinders and apply logic to a logic oriented game.

 

I'd like to propose that we cut players off from making statements to the effect of "I can see X playing this way as town" or "X is lock clear in my book." All these do is provide cover for people to change up their play style.

 

In return, discussions about instinct and gut feelings (labeled as such) can be considered in those respective lights.

 

What say you?

[Andrej]

My gut says Kivam is scum.

 

I think he's focusing on the wrong sort of things and pushing arguments that aren't alignment indicative but dressing them up as if they are.

[Thane Vakarian]

  On 11/17/2014 at 3:21 PM, Pralaya said:

Caught up after the weekend. So, this is where I am right now. 

 

 

Despot / csarmi Hydra - pretty much lock town for me. Don't agree with some of his reads but the amount of effort he has been putting is good and is typical scumhunting Des. Csarmi also hasn't stood out as scum at all. 

dicetosser1 - Mostly feeling town because of the "seer cover" post by yates. His votes have not been very opportunistic and in general his posts are in align,ent with the meta that I have of him

Nynaeve (Mentored by Clovdyx) - Although her vote on me doesn't make sense, I feel her overall gameplay has been good and reasonable. I agree with some of her other reads - especially verb/barm. Looking more like the town Nyn I know

Darthe - Felt his posts sounded genuine, especially his FoS on yates for his gameplay.

Tress - Mainly a town read on her due to the fact that I mentioned in this post. 

 

Krakalakachkn - I liked his post on D1 where he gives out his reads. He was one of the early vote on Sili and pretty much stuck to his read.

Kivam -  I liked his recap posts but at the same time I am wary of large psots because it is easy to hide within that. But, not much stood out there so far and I feel good about him. 

Andrej - seems to be quite frank about what he wants to do. Like this post where he says he wants to lynch inactives. Don't see scum AJ be so straightforward

TheRagnarok - Has looked fine, especially his posts where he is questioning those who has a town read on him. Need more posts from him though 

 

Hallia - Not much from her other than catch-up posts. Null on her.

DreadPirateRoberts - Have not played with him before and his posts seem to be slightly nudgy but other times focusing on solving the gameplay. Kind of not sure about him at the moment.

Cass (Mentored by manbat) - Again, her long catch posts look good and takes serious work. One post stood out for me. She was one of the very few people who called out Yates as scum for the "seer cover" and that sounded strange to me. She is a new player and is mentored by monstr who knows what yates was doing. Still calling him out as scum so early sounds like distancing. But, still since her other 

WWWwombat - Definitely didn't like the end-game play yesterday night. His initial vote on Sili looked more like evening up the wagons and creating an alternate lynch.  But his gameplay otherwise has been slightly better and like DPR, not very sure about his alignment. 

 

Thane Vakarian - Unlike Nynaeve, Thane has not provided specific reasons for finding me scum and just tunneling up on me. This doesn't look like his town play at all. Des made a good point with a similar vein here

Verbal32 / Barmacral Hydra - I like Nyn's case on Barm and even through my read I kind of felt the same reading the thread. Too many nudges to count  - like this on Sili, or on Andrej, or on me

 

 

You posted this, which i originally missed but i saw Nyn mention a bit later. I did post here that i'd vote you again if you didn't start to post better. As for the 'no specific reason', look here. I think i explained why i voted you, you just missed it (or don't agree with it). 

 

You finding me scummy gives me the impression you're reaching Pral. 

[Thane Vakarian]

DPR: i'm willing to give it a try, ok?

[Darthe]

  On 11/17/2014 at 3:42 PM, Andrej said:

My gut says Kivam is scum.

 

I think he's focusing on the wrong sort of things and pushing arguments that aren't alignment indicative but dressing them up as if they are.

Ditto.  Womby says I may be reading into it too much and that's how he plays but I can't shake the sense that he isn't town. 

 

  On 11/17/2014 at 3:43 PM, Thane Vakarian said:

 

 

You finding me scummy gives me the impression you're reaching Pral. 

 

 

One could be forgiven for thinking you scummy.  This is a very flawed argument.