[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread

Nynaeve · November 12, 2014

On 11/12/2014 at 1:03 PM, Barmacral said:
Why do you have bad juju about us? You've said this several times but I don't recall you giving a reason for it.

Yeah. I know. The problem is that I'll have to ISO both you and Verbal to elaborate and I haven't had time to do that quite yet..... I have a feeling it'll take a long long while. Off the top of my head, though, I felt iffy about the way both you and Verbal regarded Lee. I hope I'm remembering right.... but I recall not liking you noting how weird it was that she wouldn't take the town cred that Salami was giving her from her 'Sup' post. I thought that her response was null to town. Your comment did not make sense at all. Added to that there was Verbal's thing where he got on Leelou's case when she said he tends to drown the thread with spiderman memes as scum. Then when Des validated this he gave him brownie points for it. I know that Verbal addressed this claiming he expected a different reaction from each... but I thought it was a BS explanation lol What Leelou said is either true or not, reaction testing aside. At the end of the day.... he nudged her over something he freely admitted was true later on. That pings. He usually takes a long long looooong while to assess Leelou and the way he sort of jumped at her over something bogus seemed out of place for him.

I'm pretty sure there were more posts that bugged me that I can't remember right now. You specifically made some posts that made sense to me but some that I didn't really care for. But yeah.... I'm gonna have to get around to the ISO to expand more.

Nynaeve · November 12, 2014

For the record I'm adding Lee to my light town pile. I've felt a bit guarded about her after she fooled me last game... but I'm comfortable with her posts so far. I haven't seen anything about her that bothered me and I liked the way she handled Verbal and Krak in the exchanges between them.

Nynaeve · November 12, 2014

On 11/12/2014 at 1:10 PM, Leelou said:
The thread needs more of the pirate.

Lure him in with treasure?

Thane Vakarian · November 12, 2014

rum and wenches more like it :wink:

Barmacral · November 12, 2014

On 11/12/2014 at 2:45 AM, Darthe said:

____________________________________________________________________

Barmacral, on 11 Nov 2014 - 4:14 PM, said:

Any votes that are on pral are because of plays Arsis made and are still as valid regardless of the player switch, it is up to Pral to convince people that they are wrong about Arsis.

And on that note I'm off to bed. See you all tomorrow.

____________________________________________________________________

This is weird posturing because it assumes that Laya and Arsis have to face off and forces that mentality. Why would Laya have to react that

What? I don't understand you here. Are you suggesting that Prayala get a clean slate? I'm not posturing or forcing any mentality. Your comment is confusing and exceptionally weird.

Sili Quirrels · November 12, 2014

On 11/12/2014 at 1:06 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

Quote
Why do you have bad juju about us? You've said this several times but I don't recall you giving a reason for it.

Because your language is stilted language, and implies a guilty conscience?

ironically, i was only grasping at straws. but the longer this goes unanswered, and the more i look at the wording, the more peculiar it sounds. usually i'm not one to read too much into content and structure but this sort of phrasing pings me as posturing from an inexperienced wolf.

how he centers himself by reiterating bad juju, or recaps to ask a question he probably should have made sooner compels me to think he was pointedly ignoring it but is now trying to demonstrate tact.

i guess i would like to know how experienced barm is, and whether he's made any other overtures to address nyn and co's concerns with his gameplay.

Sili Quirrels · November 12, 2014

bah, should have edited the flow of the post for clarity.

basically it's like this. the phrasing of your post is sketchy, and other people who i presume know your meta are concerned, so i am skeptical by extension.

Cass · November 12, 2014

**** Up to post #821 at the point of posting***

@Csarmi - Thanks for the tips and suggestion :smile: I had you down as hydra with Des from the mod post at the beginning, I just don't have any read on you as yet. Could you explain for me how your hydra works please?

@Everyone else

On 11/12/2014 at 12:45 PM, csarmi said:
Kivam: dunno him. You may be right on the tone. Will have to check.

Thane: couldnt read that part yet.

Yates: yes to both questions. But seer cover haa not been usual on DM before this.

So, Seer Cover isn't usual for DM (Manbat warned me of this), BUT Yates (specifically) has hardclaimed Seer early on/provided obvious cover before? Down the track I would be interested to know how often/in what setting... and if there are any differences in play.

Sili, could you explain to me what you meant here in the blue? Everything else I understand, and generally agree with, but that part has me confused?

On 11/12/2014 at 1:04 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

it could be that yates is banking on dm being new to seer cover, but i suspect not. if he's wolfpack it's more likely the seer cover is for keeping appearances rather than finding the seer. if the true seer is new to the concept of seer cover they might withhold their results, and if the true seer is vetted with experience then they will claim when it suits them.

and in an ideal world everyone seer claims at some point and covers for the real seer to make this gambit moot. the real seer will then take advantage of the seer cover if it's safe, the risk is warranted, and the benefits outweigh the loss of their role, should they flip.

claiming seer right now when there are only three other claims is risky.

On 11/12/2014 at 12:50 PM, Barmacral said:

Kivam is a he.

Re: my play you commented on - It was me pushing buttons and gauging reactions, gathering information. I've done it several times throughout the game.

Re: Kivam, thanks Barm.
Re: your comment on button pushing - I thought it was as much, but I'm still not sure I liked the way it came across... and your explanation doesn't clear that up? I was more unclear on the why than the what. I guess what I really wanted to say was “Barm, were you jumping on a nothing in order to set Leelou up as scum, pushing such a nothing button because you're WILF?” I didn't really see a point for Town to push that button. Who's buttons exactly are you trying to push?

On 11/12/2014 at 12:51 PM, Thane Vakarian said:

On 11/12/2014 at 12:44 PM, Cass said:

Sili, I <3 you as of now. Forever.

Thane... you sound a little forced to me. Like you're explaining yourself too much - over-justifying compared to the posts I associate with you from the Band. I know you're a lawbreaker *looks at her spotfine book* , but this time, are you a Wolf? Have you got a post of your current reads somewhere? I would really like to see it... Manbat is the bomb. Gave me tips on basic theory and rules pre-game, and since the beginning of the day he has: laughed at me for the fact he threw me in a turbo, told me my second post was 'not bad' ... 'for my second post', warned me that if I disappointed him with my reads post things are gonna get rough, and answered my noobie 'what does EOS stand for' q. You say my posts look pretty decent What else would you like to see from me to help you decipher that I'm Town?

EVERYONE ELSE - Is this how Thane normally sounds in a game? Has anyone even had enough time to gather any in-game meta on him with his history of being lynched D1?

i'm totally relaxed, i assure you. I just need to reread some stuff, but all in all, i'm starting to get an idea on people in game. I'll get to that once i can. And, i'm no wolf. I like to stick around the thread when i can and interact with the people present. I like it here and wish to spend time in this game For now, stay in the thread, be yourself, and we'll figure things out.

@ Thane - what ideas do you have? ... and again, since I'm present, when it comes to what you're seeing from me, is there anything we need to figure out? (I need this answer to figure out if you're you or Wilf, lol).

Cass · November 12, 2014

On 11/12/2014 at 1:08 PM, Nynaeve said:

On 11/12/2014 at 12:18 PM, Cass said:

NYN

Reveal hidden contents

I’m not sure what to make of Nyn. Her approach and tone seem to be so opposite to mine it actually takes me aback some. But I think at this point I +1 her for being direct and tending to say things exactly how she ‘thinks’.

mmmm.... thanks? lol

You're welcome :biggrin:

On 11/12/2014 at 1:08 PM, Sili Quirrels said:
point on yates is that even were he wolfpack the gambit to seer claim should not bare fruit, so there's not much point in making it other than the town cred. if you think grasping at town cred is scummy... then i think that's a little silly but all the power to you.

I don't think trying for town cred is scummy - have you seen my recent posts? :laugh: But I would be interested to hear your thoughts on why the seer claim would not bear fruit for wolves, but would still lend town cred when apparently, at DM, it's not really something that gets used... Sili, I <3 you for the ISO, but... are you wolfing over there with Yates?

Barmacral · November 12, 2014

On 11/12/2014 at 1:15 PM, Nynaeve said:

On 11/12/2014 at 1:03 PM, Barmacral said:
Why do you have bad juju about us? You've said this several times but I don't recall you giving a reason for it.

Yeah. I know. The problem is that I'll have to ISO both you and Verbal to elaborate and I haven't had time to do that quite yet..... I have a feeling it'll take a long long while. Off the top of my head, though, I felt iffy about the way both you and Verbal regarded Lee. I hope I'm remembering right.... but I recall not liking you noting how weird it was that she wouldn't take the town cred that Salami was giving her from her 'Sup' post. I thought that her response was null to town. Your comment did not make sense at all. Added to that there was Verbal's thing where he got on Leelou's case when she said he tends to drown the thread with spiderman memes as scum. Then when Des validated this he gave him brownie points for it. I know that Verbal addressed this claiming he expected a different reaction from each... but I thought it was a BS explanation lol What Leelou said is either true or not, reaction testing aside. At the end of the day.... he nudged her over something he freely admitted was true later on. That pings. He usually takes a long long looooong while to assess Leelou and the way he sort of jumped at her over something bogus seemed out of place for him.

I'm pretty sure there were more posts that bugged me that I can't remember right now. You specifically made some posts that made sense to me but some that I didn't really care for. But yeah.... I'm gonna have to get around to the ISO to expand more.

I look forward to seeing it. Also I answered the leelou sup thing in response to Cass a few posts back. Will be answering again momentarily:

Quote
Re: your comment on button pushing - I thought it was as much, but I'm still not sure I liked the way it came across... and your explanation doesn't clear that up? I was more unclear on the why than the what. I guess what I really wanted to say was “Barm, were you jumping on a nothing in order to set Leelou up as scum, pushing such a nothing button because you're WILF?” I didn't really see a point for Town to push that button. Who's buttons exactly are you trying to push?

At that point in the game anyone at all, the game had just started and up to then there had been exactly zero real content. And it worked, multiple people responded and blew things out of proportion for what I entirely agree should have amounted to nothing.

On 11/12/2014 at 1:37 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

ironically, i was only grasping at straws. but the longer this goes unanswered, and the more i look at the wording, the more peculiar it sounds. usually i'm not one to read too much into content and structure but this sort of phrasing pings me as posturing from an inexperienced wolf.

how he centers himself by reiterating bad juju, or recaps to ask a question he probably should have made sooner compels me to think he was pointedly ignoring it but is now trying to demonstrate tact.

i guess i would like to know how experienced barm is, and whether he's made any other overtures to address nyn and co's concerns with his gameplay.

The longer what goes unanswered? Your question? My question to Nyn?

Quote
basically it's like this. the phrasing of your post is sketchy, and other people who i presume know your meta are concerned, so i am skeptical by extension.

Seeing as this is my second full game at Dragonmount in years, any meta people have on me is minimal and should not be relied on.

Thane Vakarian · November 12, 2014

So, i've been reading a bit more, and here's where i am.

possible wolves/3rd party: Sili, krak, Darthe, AJ, Hallia, Tommy

quite convinced of being town: Nyn, Csarpo, Verbarm, Wombat, Kivam

Not on the list? Still working on it, null for now

Thane Vakarian · November 12, 2014

at work, so not easy rereading and keeping up ITT realtime. My apologies

Kivam · November 12, 2014

On 11/12/2014 at 1:25 PM, Barmacral said:

On 11/12/2014 at 2:45 AM, Darthe said:

____________________________________________________________________

Barmacral, on 11 Nov 2014 - 4:14 PM, said:

Any votes that are on pral are because of plays Arsis made and are still as valid regardless of the player switch, it is up to Pral to convince people that they are wrong about Arsis.

And on that note I'm off to bed. See you all tomorrow.

____________________________________________________________________

This is weird posturing because it assumes that Laya and Arsis have to face off and forces that mentality. Why would Laya have to react that

What? I don't understand you here. Are you suggesting that Prayala get a clean slate? I'm not posturing or forcing any mentality. Your comment is confusing and exceptionally weird.

This. Praya may not be able to "explain" moves that Arsis made - he can't know what was in Arsis' head - but it's one roster spot and the reads are on the roster spot, not the player (i.e. whatever alignment Arsis had, so does Praya). Praya's play may change things, but there sure as hell ain't no clean slate

Thane Vakarian · November 12, 2014

it stands for certain that Pral needs to get in here and get some gameplay in.

Sili Quirrels · November 12, 2014

Quote

Sili Quirrels, on 12 Nov 2014 - 05:08 AM, said:

On 11/12/2014 at 1:08 PM, Sili Quirrels said:
point on yates is that even were he wolfpack the gambit to seer claim should not bare fruit, so there's not much point in making it other than the town cred. if you think grasping at town cred is scummy... then i think that's a little silly but all the power to you.

I don't think trying for town cred is scummy - have you seen my recent posts? But I would be interested to hear your thoughts on why the seer claim would not bear fruit for wolves, but would still lend town cred when apparently, at DM, it's not really something that gets used... Sili, I <3 you for the ISO, but... are you wolfing over there with Yates?

a lot of players here have played in at least one game with a seer, so most should know better. and i think in a general way people get town cred for participating in pro-town gameplay, so in my opinion, starting a seer claim cover is a solid way of contributing.

Quote
Sili, could you explain to me what you meant here in the blue? Everything else I understand, and generally agree with, but that part has me confused?

if i were wolfpack here, maybe i'd gamble that by initiating seer cover, the real seer would be confused since he isn't familiar with the strategy, and slip up by pushing yates for hardclaiming their role or something.

but it's difficult to imagine yates would risk wifom for that abysmal chance of success. ...

right?

Reveal hidden contents

having said that, i think the chances of success for such a ploy are 5 percent, and usually only work if one assumes a town misplay.

Nynaeve · November 12, 2014

On 11/12/2014 at 1:54 PM, Thane Vakarian said:

So, i've been reading a bit more, and here's where i am.

possible wolves/3rd party: Sili, krak, Darthe, AJ, Hallia, Tommy

quite convinced of being town: Nyn, Csarpo, Verbarm, Wombat, Kivam

Not on the list? Still working on it, null for now

Can you expand on Halli's scum lean?

Nynaeve · November 12, 2014

On 11/12/2014 at 1:53 PM, Barmacral said:
At that point in the game anyone at all, the game had just started and up to then there had been exactly zero real content. And it worked, multiple people responded and blew things out of proportion for what I entirely agree should have amounted to nothing.

So.... you're saying you said it for reactions and didn't actually find it weird?

DPR · November 12, 2014

On 11/12/2014 at 1:04 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

it could be that yates is banking on dm being new to seer cover, but i suspect not. if he's wolfpack it's more likely the seer cover is for keeping appearances rather than finding the seer. if the true seer is new to the concept of seer cover they might withhold their results, and if the true seer is vetted with experience then they will claim when it suits them.

and in an ideal world everyone seer claims at some point and covers for the real seer to make this gambit moot. the real seer will then take advantage of the seer cover if it's safe, the risk is warranted, and the benefits outweigh the loss of their role, should they flip.

claiming seer right now when there are only three other claims is risky.

On 11/12/2014 at 1:08 PM, Sili Quirrels said:
point on yates is that even were he wolfpack the gambit to seer claim should not bare fruit, so there's not much point in making it other than the town cred. if you think grasping at town cred is scummy... then i think that's a little silly but all the power to you.

These two posts, made this morning, concern me. They bring to my mind a cohesive effort surrounding SEER COVER 2014, and while it it unlikely that the play is simple or correlates how I'm going to lay it out (D1 and all) I'll betcha that at least one of these players is glomming on to use it to their advantage.

Yates claims Seer - This move generates some dismay, but seems to have fallen flat as far as intent goes. More attentions is paid to the 3A comment.

Des moves in to back this claim up - He brings up the term "Seer Cover", explains how it works and declares portrays it as a town move and a null tell. He elaborates that it's huge in Germany (implying that the cool kids play elsewhere) and pre-closes the deal with a Nothing To See Here attitude.

But, the move still doesn't get traction - players are still scratching their heads.

Yates has to bring it up again and re-explain it (if everyone does it, we'll have a Seer list out in the open).

At this point, I have to believe that a town player would let the issue drop. It's D1 - why bring more attention to yourself than necessary and muddy-up the water with confusion? The claim has been made, noted, seconded and we're moving on to the next attraction.

Naturally, Des decides he needs to begin walking back his support of Yates claim and ends up neutral as to whether he thinks it's a good idea or not.

Both Yates and Des make noises to the effect of "I'll explain it one more time, but then the subject is closed."

Again, it's all in the books for D1. I'm fine to note it and watch it while we see who else pops up on the radar.

Yates seems to drop it. Des seems to drop it.

Fast forward to this morning:

Sili jumps in to the Seer argument (two posts above) to further oil the water regarding Yates. He balances this by soft-attacking Nyn with "guilty conscience" vibes.

That's alarm bells for me.

DPR · November 12, 2014

On 11/12/2014 at 1:58 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

Quote

Sili Quirrels, on 12 Nov 2014 - 05:08 AM, said:

On 11/12/2014 at 1:08 PM, Sili Quirrels said:
point on yates is that even were he wolfpack the gambit to seer claim should not bare fruit, so there's not much point in making it other than the town cred. if you think grasping at town cred is scummy... then i think that's a little silly but all the power to you.

I don't think trying for town cred is scummy - have you seen my recent posts? But I would be interested to hear your thoughts on why the seer claim would not bear fruit for wolves, but would still lend town cred when apparently, at DM, it's not really something that gets used... Sili, I <3 you for the ISO, but... are you wolfing over there with Yates?

a lot of players here have played in at least one game with a seer, so most should know better. and i think in a general way people get town cred for participating in pro-town gameplay, so in my opinion, starting a seer claim cover is a solid way of contributing.

Quote
Sili, could you explain to me what you meant here in the blue? Everything else I understand, and generally agree with, but that part has me confused?

if i were wolfpack here, maybe i'd gamble that by initiating seer cover, the real seer would be confused since he isn't familiar with the strategy, and slip up by pushing yates for hardclaiming their role or something.

but it's difficult to imagine yates would risk wifom for that abysmal chance of success. ...

right?

Reveal hidden contents

Yates, are you wolfpack? Tell me now and we can make a truce.

having said that, i think the chances of success for such a ploy are 5 percent, and usually only work if one assumes a town misplay.

And here we go with more Yates defending.

Dude - you attack Nyn based on an ambiguous comment she made but but lacks any evidence while simultaneously trying to defend a player and play that we have in the books as evidence.

That's just not cricket, old boy.

Thane Vakarian · November 12, 2014

What i lack from her for the moment is some actual own reads and gameplay. I've been going through the thread and i simply can not see anything that originates from her. Sheeping along. I ~~need~~ would like some more activity on her part

Yates · November 12, 2014

Hi Cass. You're being mentored by Monstr, right? Cool. Ask him about this:

On 11/12/2014 at 12:18 PM, Cass said:

1. Is it usual for Yates to provide such OPEN Seer 'cover'?

2. How plausible is it (especially for those who have caught up and may have examples either way) that Yates may have been a Wolf posting ‘cover’ in the hopes of initiating other ‘peaks’/trying to find the Seer?

1. This game just ended a couple of weeks ago. That's the last game I played with a Seer. It was offsite but Seer cover was actually discussed in-depth because it was the first game on that site for a lot of us. That's your background on why I would provide Seer cover - assuming it's cover.

2. It should be mostly null. It's like saying "I am Spartacus." If everyone else lays down cover, it a. helps HIDE the real Seer [assuming I'm just providing cover] and b. gives the real Seer [me] an open forum to post their reads in the event they are NKed.

Also, that link was to Monstr's game. So your mentor should be able to help you out if you need more back and forth on the strategy. Good luck and have fun.

Sili Quirrels · November 12, 2014

I'm sewing confusion and doubt?

Quote
These two posts, made this morning, concern me. They bring to my mind a cohesive effort surrounding SEER COVER 2014, and while it it unlikely that the play is simple or correlates how I'm going to lay it out (D1 and all) I'll betcha that at least one of these players is glomming on to use it to their advantage.

well i have no intention of making any effort to clear yates or defend him in any significant way until i'm reasonably confident he's town, but my impression is people are skeptical of him because they don't understand seer cover so I'm tyring to explain it so they make an informed decision.

explain it to the best of my ability anyway.

Quote
He balances this by soft-attacking Nyn with "guilty conscience" vibes.

Actually, I was quoting barm, not nyn. :dry:

Darthe · November 12, 2014

On 11/12/2014 at 3:52 AM, WWWwombat said:
Needs more Derf

And so I appear!

On 11/12/2014 at 3:54 AM, Sili Quirrels said:
wombat/dpr/darthe town alliance with me, if you think I'm worthy?

Ping

On 11/12/2014 at 1:25 PM, Barmacral said:

On 11/12/2014 at 2:45 AM, Darthe said:

____________________________________________________________________

Barmacral, on 11 Nov 2014 - 4:14 PM, said:

Any votes that are on pral are because of plays Arsis made and are still as valid regardless of the player switch, it is up to Pral to convince people that they are wrong about Arsis.

And on that note I'm off to bed. See you all tomorrow.

____________________________________________________________________

This is weird posturing because it assumes that Laya and Arsis have to face off and forces that mentality. Why would Laya have to react that

What? I don't understand you here. Are you suggesting that Prayala get a clean slate? I'm not posturing or forcing any mentality. Your comment is confusing and exceptionally weird.

This is definitely pushing an angle. Forcing a mentality was a bad way to say that, which I'll concede. I don't see how Arsis making decisions validates votes on Laya which is what I'm calling bs on. Can you explain that in your comment? Also, I didn't say Laya should have a clean slate anywhere.

Sili Quirrels · November 12, 2014

so pirate is using his town cred and nudging. can i not like that XD

Darthe · November 12, 2014

On 11/12/2014 at 2:10 PM, Thane Vakarian said:
What i lack from her for the moment is some actual own reads and gameplay. I've been going through the thread and i simply can not see anything that originates from her. Sheeping along. I ~~need~~ would like some more activity on her part

Speaking of reads how did you come by those reads of yours?

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