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[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread

Tommyrod

By Tommyrod
in DM Mafia Games

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Darthe Spam Master

Darthe

Posted
Posted

Well in that case I look forward to you clarifying both points and some form of analysis or casework for both what they are and how they imply my alignment in a meaningful way.  

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Hallia Spam Master

Hallia

Posted
Posted

I have no need for super long drawn out casings, it's not my style and I don't feel I need it.  

 

I started to point out what didn't fly with me regarding Krak, and when I posted it you attempted to undermine me on it.  He later flipped scum.

 

You are exactly the type of scum player to bus fellow teammates, so when people say that you went after Kivam, that could've easily been that.

 

I think that you would leave me alive as scum and try to do what you did this morning, discredit my play and try to get me lynched at a later date as the GFSK.

Darthe Spam Master

Darthe

Posted
Posted
  On 11/22/2014 at 6:45 PM, Hallia said:

I have no need for super long drawn out casings, it's not my style and I don't feel I need it.  

 

I started to point out what didn't fly with me regarding Krak, and when I posted it you attempted to undermine me on it.  He later flipped scum.

 

You are exactly the type of scum player to bus fellow teammates, so when people say that you went after Kivam, that could've easily been that.

 

I think that you would leave me alive as scum and try to do what you did this morning, discredit my play and try to get me lynched at a later date as the GFSK.

 

You have the exact need to validate your arguments in some manner since right now all you're doing is blowing smoke.  Quote something.  Give me a page link.  If you aren't willing to put ten minutes worth of work into a case you're the exact waste that I called you in the first place.  

 

And yes, I absolutely would bus a teammate if I thought it was warranted.  Your arguing not that I could do something but that I did do it.  Those are worlds apart.  Show something for it.  I can't refute blither Hallia.  

 

Your case against me thus far is "Darthe interracted with me one time though I won't show you how but it was bad" and "He has bussed people so he prob bussed someone and I'm alive so that he can change his whole stance on me at the last moment and get me lynched".  

 

It's such a bad case Hally that it does more to harm you than it does me. 

Darthe Spam Master

Darthe

Posted
Posted

I just did an ISO of Laya and had like 16 quotes and messed up, deleting 11 of them so screw that noise ).) I'm miffed today.

 

TL;DR of my examination of Laya is that I noticed he talks a lot of mechanical talk in this game and he mentioned the SK a lot but I don't think the odds of him being a wolf are very high.  SK is a middling possibility but I am willing to accept that I could be wrong on the slot depending on how he responds to a couple of questions I have.

 

@Laya, could you provide a link to your town and scum game and if you've ever been third party before one of those would be valuable as well.  I prefer most recent examples.  Also, now that the game has evolved to this point what do you think about Tress who was your early game main scum lean and what do you think of Thane at this stage?

Pralaya Master

Pralaya

Posted
Posted
  On 11/22/2014 at 4:11 AM, Darthe said:

This post looks unnatural as all hell from laya.  Not only is it far more astute than he has been showing all game but it displays an aptitude for mechanics that he was hitherto not known to have.  

 

[v] ##Laya [/v]

 

 

Wow, seriously Darthe? You are voting me ...because I am making sense? I have no idea how to respond to that. If you had straight up disagreed with what I was saying like Des and Csarmi did and then proceeded to vote me, it would have made a lot more sense. Right now, you are just making up stuff in order to justify your suspicion on me. For example, mechanics/wagonomics has always been my strong suit. Tone/meta reading my weakness. Trying to say that I am using mechanics for my arguments and thus I am scum is just lazy. I am town here and you are just tinfoiling and going off-track.

Pralaya Master

Pralaya

Posted
Posted
That said, despite that, I think Darthe is town here. That was my read of him before and that has not changed so far. I have seen scum Darthe and he is kind of inactive when he is scum, like we saw in Woodstock. He is different here.

 

Also, Des/Csarmi is also town. Same kind of gamesolving effort and their hydra interaction in the thread, inspite of having a QC, that seems real. It us harder to fake that.

 

Hally is a wombat-clear town

 

I wouldn't be willing to lynch any of the above three. 

 

That leaves Cass, Thane and Tress.

 

Cass is an outlier and I am not sure how she plays, this being her first game. Her initial suspicion of Yates seemed and her going after AJ and surprised reaction afetyr AJ's death seemed fake. But, her overall play has been good and she is putting some effort. 

 

As I mentioned to Darthe, this is where I was on Tress and pretty much that has not changed today.

 

I am quite sure Thane is scum this game. Have been saying this since Day 1 and it is only becoming more and more obvious. Look at his town games and look at the couple of games where he has been scum. He is quite opportunistic, less jokish and more tunneling when he scum and he has displayed all those traits. He was tunneling me for 2 game days (which he often does as scum) and since then all he has been doing is to say that he will catch up or give a status update rather than  trying to deduce who the scum are. This especially after the scum is down to 1. 

Darthe Spam Master

Darthe

Posted
Posted
  On 11/22/2014 at 7:24 PM, Hallia said:

We'll have to just agree to disagree then, and see what other players think.

You were unwilling to even put ten minutes of effort into this game to create a single valid stance and you think that your opinion should be given weight?  

 

I'm done with you. 

Darthe Spam Master

Darthe

Posted
Posted
  On 11/22/2014 at 7:41 PM, Pralaya said:

 

  On 11/22/2014 at 4:11 AM, Darthe said:

This post looks unnatural as all hell from laya.  Not only is it far more astute than he has been showing all game but it displays an aptitude for mechanics that he was hitherto not known to have.  

 

[v] ##Laya [/v]

 

 

Wow, seriously Darthe? You are voting me ...because I am making sense? I have no idea how to respond to that. If you had straight up disagreed with what I was saying like Des and Csarmi did and then proceeded to vote me, it would have made a lot more sense. Right now, you are just making up stuff in order to justify your suspicion on me. For example, mechanics/wagonomics has always been my strong suit. Tone/meta reading my weakness. Trying to say that I am using mechanics for my arguments and thus I am scum is just lazy. I am town here and you are just tinfoiling and going off-track.

 

Fair, it was pretty tinfoil-y of me.  I don't recall you ever being so mechanically oriented though so off the cuff it stuck out to me.  I'm going to look over your scum and town game and draw more from that.  

 

Care to explain why you're only worried about people being mafia?

Hallia Spam Master

Hallia

Posted
Posted
  On 11/22/2014 at 7:58 PM, Darthe said:

 

  On 11/22/2014 at 7:24 PM, Hallia said:

We'll have to just agree to disagree then, and see what other players think.

You were unwilling to even put ten minutes of effort into this game to create a single valid stance and you think that your opinion should be given weight?  

 

I'm done with you. 

 

 

I have created a valid stance.  Just because you disagree with it doesn't make it any less.

Pralaya Master

Pralaya

Posted
Posted

For starters, getting the mafia will likely end the game and win for town, irrespective of whether the SK is alive or not. Or that's how it has been in the games I played with SK.

 

Also, it is easier to deduce who the mafia is using gameplay and interactions but not so much for SK. I have talked about SK before and how we can maybe look at gameplay to deduce them but I don't think I was on the right track (i had nyn as the probable SK)

csarmi Spam Master

csarmi

Posted
Posted
  On 11/22/2014 at 8:21 PM, Pralaya said:

For starters, getting the mafia will likely end the game and win for town, irrespective of whether the SK is alive or not. Or that's how it has been in the games I played with SK.

 

Also, it is easier to deduce who the mafia is using gameplay and interactions but not so much for SK. I have talked about SK before and how we can maybe look at gameplay to deduce them but I don't think I was on the right track (i had nyn as the probable SK)

What? Nope. The mafia and the SK both needs to die.

Pralaya Master

Pralaya

Posted
Posted
  On 11/22/2014 at 8:43 PM, csarmi said:

 

  On 11/22/2014 at 8:21 PM, Pralaya said:

For starters, getting the mafia will likely end the game and win for town, irrespective of whether the SK is alive or not. Or that's how it has been in the games I played with SK.

 

Also, it is easier to deduce who the mafia is using gameplay and interactions but not so much for SK. I have talked about SK before and how we can maybe look at gameplay to deduce them but I don't think I was on the right track (i had nyn as the probable SK)

What? Nope. The mafia and the SK both needs to die.

 

 

Ok that's not how it was in the games where I have seen SK

 

@Tom, can you clarify this?

Songstress Spam Master

Songstress

Posted
Posted
  On 11/22/2014 at 9:00 PM, Pralaya said:

 

  On 11/22/2014 at 8:43 PM, csarmi said:

 

  On 11/22/2014 at 8:21 PM, Pralaya said:

For starters, getting the mafia will likely end the game and win for town, irrespective of whether the SK is alive or not. Or that's how it has been in the games I played with SK.

 

Also, it is easier to deduce who the mafia is using gameplay and interactions but not so much for SK. I have talked about SK before and how we can maybe look at gameplay to deduce them but I don't think I was on the right track (i had nyn as the probable SK)

What? Nope. The mafia and the SK both needs to die.

 

 

Ok that's not how it was in the games where I have seen SK

 

@Tom, can you clarify this?

 

 

I have seen games before where the serial killer had a "one of the last 3 alive" win condition, but it's generally not standard.  It's sometimes done that way to give the serial killer a legit chance to win, in lieu of a BPV. 

 

In this case, the SK was given a choice between BPV and GF.

 

And the SK's role PM is given in the original post along with the other sample role PMs, so your confusion is suspect.

Songstress Spam Master

Songstress

Posted
Posted
  On 11/22/2014 at 7:41 PM, Pralaya said:

 

  On 11/22/2014 at 4:11 AM, Darthe said:

This post looks unnatural as all hell from laya.  Not only is it far more astute than he has been showing all game but it displays an aptitude for mechanics that he was hitherto not known to have.  

 

[v] ##Laya [/v]

 

 

Wow, seriously Darthe? You are voting me ...because I am making sense? I have no idea how to respond to that. If you had straight up disagreed with what I was saying like Des and Csarmi did and then proceeded to vote me, it would have made a lot more sense. Right now, you are just making up stuff in order to justify your suspicion on me. For example, mechanics/wagonomics has always been my strong suit. Tone/meta reading my weakness. Trying to say that I am using mechanics for my arguments and thus I am scum is just lazy. I am town here and you are just tinfoiling and going off-track.

 

 

I noticed the same thing here, regarding the rationale for Darthe's vote.  That looks really... terrible on Darthe.  "Oh, Pral doesn't usually act like he understands mafia mechanics"?

 

That said, I don't think Pral is our last mafia. Like I said before, when Pral unvoted me because Yates left me off his reads list, I don't see Mafia!Pral voting me, then using that as an excuse to unvote me, and not following through on the push against me.  It doesn't make sense to me.

 

SK!Pral, possibly.  Still considering that as a viable option.

Tommyrod Grand Master

Tommyrod

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Tom's Mod Corner

 

Q: Does village when when wolf faction is defeated but the Serial Killer is alive?

 

A: No. Village must defeat all anti-village factions to win.

 

See win con in Role PMs.

 

Sorry about the lack of VC's lately. I've been traveling and with people and avoiding using my phone because I don't want to be rude or don't even have service in the boonies. I've asked a few people to help me with VC's.

 

Deadline is Monday at 9PM EST.

Darthe Spam Master

Darthe

Posted
Posted
  On 11/22/2014 at 8:33 PM, dicetosser1 said:

@ darthe   i may have missed something here tho if its by inference i may have read it differently.

 

Why do you think des/csarmi shot anyone?  Quotes would help. 

 

 

  On 11/21/2014 at 2:15 PM, csarmi said:

Oops.

 

Sorry Nyn.

 

 

  On 11/21/2014 at 11:33 PM, Despothera said:

Told y'all Nyn was LOCK CLEAR

 

:dry:

 

TYH Csarmi. Trust your hydra.

 

 

  On 11/22/2014 at 9:48 AM, csarmi said:

Darthe - yes. Team works best when there is absolute trust. I trust Despo to vote or do any actions whenever he wants to and I believe he trusts me to do the same.

 

 

  On 11/20/2014 at 5:05 PM, csarmi said:

Hard claim: we are NOT the even night vigilante.

 

 

  On 11/20/2014 at 11:45 AM, csarmi said:

 

  On 11/19/2014 at 10:31 PM, Tommyrod said:

Vote Count D3.03:

 

Tress (3): AJ [#2932], Deslami [#3128], Nyn [#3170]

Deslami (1): Rags [#3117]

Rags (1): Dicehaslice [#3027]

Dice (1): Hallia [#3048]

Nyn (1): Darthe [#3083]

 

Not Voting (4): Cass, Pralaya, Thane Vakarian, Tress

 

At the gallows: Tress

 

Reminder: players not voting at EOD will be voting for themselves.

 

red2_1416535200.png

Gonna be shooting someone who doesn't vote in the next four hours. Just FYI. Take a fluffy stance.

 

 

 

@Dice, maybe they aren't really the vig but these from Salami point that way.  If they are covering I'm cool with that.

Songstress Spam Master

Songstress

Posted
Posted

A'ight, so I'm still kicking things around in my head, but here's where it's at right now.

 

Not willing to lynch:  DesLami and Hallia.  

 

I think I've been clear enough on my progression in regards to DesLami, regardless of Despot's misgivings (TYH, Des, he reads me better than you do 9 times out of 10).

 

I think the point about the unlikelihood of Hally being GFSK who got viewed N0 is a pretty good one.  If we haven't caught the SK after the last mafia is toast, it can be revisited, but I don't think her play warrants tinfoiling on her right now.

 

Considering:  Dice, Darthe, Thane, Pral.  

 

Pral I've already said more than once I doubt for our last mafia member.  I'm willing to consider him as possible SK, more likely IMO than Hallia.

 

Thane I'm muddled on.  I've spent too much of the game, as I said earlier, reading his posts and saying "what!? why?! Oh, right, it's Thane."   I need to look further at his posts to get a clearer picture.

 

Dice is another question, although overall I've been leaning townish on him.  I started to re-read his posts in ISO the other night and some of the posts did ping a bit, especially the amount of talking about low activity, making excuses for it, saying he's trying something different and sitting back more... which I really hadn't thought he was lurking like scum!Dice tends to do, but he seems awfully self-conscious about it, so maybe there's something there.

 

Darthe has been raising my eyebrows today with the amount of aggression he's piling on Pral, Dice and Hallia, but it occurred to me while I was thinking about the game in the shower that this may well be Town!Darthe trying to get a rise out of some of the players he's trying to read better.  Not ready to toss him in the scum pile just now, because this kinda makes sense in a twisted Dartheish way.

 

Still my best guess for mafia: Cass

 

Tinfoil may not look great on me, but we are talking about Kivam as mafia here, and per the discussion yesterday Kivam's voting behavior (and Krak's as well) doesn't make a damn lot of sense near EOD -- unless you look at it from the angle that he was planning to die, not knowing that Krak was going to be shot that night.  Krak's not bad at coasting as scum, as I recall from previous games.  First game back after a lengthy hiatus, with some vet players who would appreciate it (and who mostly died pretty early on - Leelou, DPR, Verb and Wombat were all dead by end of N2), I can completely see him really wanting to run the gambit that got named after him.  

 

Maybe I'm way off base, but the excessive self-defense, especially focusing heavily on her part in lynching Kivam, and the emphasizing being a newb (which set a lot of people off in my first game, where I was mafia), it doesn't help. 

 

If it's not Cass, I'm thinking Thane or Dice.  

Pralaya Master

Pralaya

Posted
Posted

OK, looking at both Tress and Thane in detail

Thane:

Thane has a lot of posts but not any serious analysis. Most are conversation posts which hype up the post-count

  Reveal hidden contents



Overall, Thane looks really suspect on his D1 posting and his tunneling the next few days. I have mentioned about his opportunistic posting before and that is why I think he is really the last scum here.

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