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[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread


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Posted
  On 11/17/2014 at 7:10 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

 

  On 11/17/2014 at 7:08 PM, Nynaeve said:

 

  On 11/17/2014 at 6:12 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

I don't understand this "he always acts that way" argument at all. It makes zero sense to me.  

 

 

Here's the thing. I 100% agree with you that a player should play the same as scum and town. No disagreements there. That's what I try to do, if not always fully succeed. Heh.

 

But there are quite a few players that their town and scum game is different. I don't know if it's their inability to manage it..... doing it unconsciously..... lack of play development. Whatever. But it's there. So I rely on it, especially on D1 as a basis and especially with players I often misread. It's little things like thread presence, motivation, the way they carry themselves. I know it's not TOTALLY reliable....and I respect the fact that you might not like it... but I do feel that it often helps point me in the right direction. But I'm always re-calbirating and factoring in new info. So I use the best of both worlds, you could say.

 

 

Yep, but there is always that point where a player learns a new trick and bites you in the behind. That's why evidence is the most valued element of a case. Instinct can point you in the right direction, but evidence doesn't lie.

 

 

I agree. It could happen.

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Posted
  On 11/17/2014 at 7:13 PM, dicetosser1 said:

 

  On 11/16/2014 at 8:20 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

 

  On 11/16/2014 at 8:09 PM, Andrej said:

Yeah - still not correlated at all. Tone reading isn't just a guess so firstly you're mischaracterizing on a grand scale there.

 

NK speculation allows for misdirection in a nutshell and believe it or not the outcome you're hoping for isn't very likely to happen because the wolves already have a better idea than the average player as to what actually happened.

 

So not trying to tunnel here, but this just blows my mind. 

 

You are saying that tone reading isn't just a guess.

 

You are also saying that NK speculation allows for misdirection because the wolves know more than the town.

 

FTR, I completely disagree with both of these points. Tone reading is exactly just guessing and NK speculation is a valuable tool, alongside coroner information, to be used to corner scum.

 

 

DPR  have you ever spoken to someone and, just by the way they have said something, known they were being sarcastic?  I bet you have.  THATS tone reading. It IS a thing.  it is harder with text as opposed to voice but it can be done. You can still get a feel for whether its honest, has a natural flow to it etc.  is it 100% reliable??? no. but it  probably is more then 50%.

 

 

RE BPV for SK    the thing about bpv is if a vig shoots someone and they dont die   esp now with the JK dead  then wouldnt they just find a reason to lynch the survivor the next day  or at worse wait and shoot them again?  Kinda seems like a BPV is a giveaway if you do get targetted and you will wind up dead anyways.

 

 

Dude, really? Like, really really really? 

 

If we're depending on the razor sharp edge of this game's ability to sense sarcasm, we are good and FLICKED.

 

And to your BPV point, that's one reason it has been so odd to hear people sa they'd have chosen it. They are either terribly inexperienced or not thinking. 

Posted
  On 11/17/2014 at 7:09 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

 

  On 11/17/2014 at 6:56 PM, Darthe said:

The biggest threat right now is that discussion has went everywhere and votes have practically stopped.  I don't think it's DADV quite yet but the fact that even Verbarm seem comfortable with this lynch is maddening.  

 

Again with the drama.

 

What exactly is the threat? We have a vote leader. Nyn has made an excellent case against that leader. I'd rather hear Verb's thoughts before lynching him, but I agree with Nyn.

 

Let's say the day progresses as is, what's been said is said and Vermacral is lynched. 

 

Why is this a threat?

 

 

We have a vote leader who I supported as the D1 lynch and continue to support as a D2 lynch.   Hell, I even think I was the first to case them.  The individual in question isn't a problem. 

 

The problem is that days that progress as planned aren't good days for the town.  There's a reason the term shook came about and you don't get there if everyone sits comfy.  

 

What I'm getting at here is that the closer we get to DL without seeing some form of movement the more likely it is that mafia is content with this lynch.  It's the problem with the logic you use in the above quote.  Edison learned a million ways to not make a lightbulb because he had a million opportunities.  We don't have unlimited chances to get our lynches right.

Posted

Nyn - let me repeat you're in no way my highest pick for scum, and I'm offering my observations. I value your opinions and the way you tend to express them. I just found some things confusing. That doesn't mean I think you are scum. It means I'm considering what those things may mean if you were.

 

On Thane... I totally get what you're saying about knowing how Thane plays - but (regardless of how accurate it is) he looked dodgy to me, and it took you aages (imo) to come straight out and actually give an opinion of how you thought Thane was playing this game.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

RE Verbarm - I don't know what a lot of the subtleties behind each irregularity are. Without people elaborating, I don't necessarily know what side they're coming down on. I get that you cast a vote because 'stuff'. I did read the entire thing. I just didn't always understand where you were coming from with some of it (as with Thane). gah I hate misunderstanding.

 

I didn't say you couldn't pinpoint, as with Thane it was more a case of you didn't say, for quite some time. (Even in the quote you posted, it 'shows' that you said 'what' not 'why' - until you were directly prompted). 

 

That's all. I found it odd. It jumped out at me because I find Thane and Verbarm odd. It says more about what I think about the way they are playing, than what I think about you - at this point, nothing has convinced me enough either way about you tbh. And I'm well aware that I'm inexperienced and that it comes through in my posts lol, I don't seem to be able to win (another reason why Kiv/DPR push that I'm good enough to be afraid of is sus btw). For now though, I'm looking at your play from the aspect that you've voted in the same direction I'm considering for Verbarm. I won't have more on what that means til things play out...

Posted

Random thought that just hit me.  I'd like to see who said they would take a BPV and who said they'd take GF in these scenarios now because those mentioning the BPV could be trying to distance from Yates.  Anyone got a list of that or will I need to read back?

Posted
  On 11/17/2014 at 6:56 PM, Darthe said:

The biggest threat right now is that discussion has went everywhere and votes have practically stopped.  I don't think it's DADV quite yet but the fact that even Verbarm seem comfortable with this lynch is maddening.  

 

Darthe, Barm's reaction only reinforces my scum read on that slot. His defense, essentially is ridiculing my expectation of him to express his thoughts on thread. It's laughable. First of all, why wouldn't he want to share his thoughts? What does he have to hide? Secondly, this is a forum mafia game. If he doesn't say what he thinks ON THREAD he's free to make up whatever he likes later on... which is exactly what happened with Leelou's "ruse". He threw a comment at her. Let it lay until I rehashed it..... and since he didn't bother explaining anything at the time he can pull reasons out of his ass and say.... oh I obviously did this because of this and that. Why should I believe him? 

 

His disinterest in being the lead train all day speaks volumes imo. And his reluctance to say anything about Verb's ISO is also odd. I get the distinct feeling that he doesn't care. I don't know if that's typical for him as a player or not.... but it really isn't a good look for him.

Posted

I get that Nyn, don't misunderstand.  I like the lynch and I think the slot is scum but I am taking a bit of time here to field other options because there is no shifting going on and hasn't been for a while.  

Posted
  On 11/17/2014 at 7:23 PM, Darthe said:

I get that Nyn, don't misunderstand.  I like the lynch and I think the slot is scum but I am taking a bit of time here to field other options because there is no shifting going on and hasn't been for a while.  

 

The last VC shows like 8 people not even voting....

Posted
  On 11/17/2014 at 7:20 PM, Darthe said:

Random thought that just hit me.  I'd like to see who said they would take a BPV and who said they'd take GF in these scenarios now because those mentioning the BPV could be trying to distance from Yates.  Anyone got a list of that or will I need to read back?

Csarmi said if he were SK he would take BPV and play protown. I linked at the bottom of the 'Des is being weird' post.

Posted
  On 11/17/2014 at 7:26 PM, Cass said:

 

  On 11/17/2014 at 7:20 PM, Darthe said:

Random thought that just hit me.  I'd like to see who said they would take a BPV and who said they'd take GF in these scenarios now because those mentioning the BPV could be trying to distance from Yates.  Anyone got a list of that or will I need to read back?

Csarmi said if he were SK he would take BPV and play protown. I linked at the bottom of the 'Des is being weird' post.

 

I had a moment where I was thinking about relating it to what people would take or advise a teammate to take if mafia but the two aren't related well enough.  Doesn't work when talking about the SK though.  

Posted
  On 11/12/2014 at 4:11 PM, Yates. said:

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 4:06 PM, WWWwombat said:

If you guys wanna go after Yates for something, how about going after him for having very little meaningful content?

Is this a joke?

Wombat is on point here. Yates did speak a lot and said... Not much.

Posted
  On 11/13/2014 at 11:30 AM, Yates. said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 11:26 AM, Nynaeve said:

I have a smiley gif set up for Salami, btw. lol

Oh geez!Hey while you're here; what do you think of Leelou and Tress? I kind of hoped to see more from Tress by now and that has me concerned.

Can Yates and Tress be w/w here? Don't think so.

Posted

Checking in after following along on my phone during meetings.  Think Wes is leading the game in a very nice direction, process wise.

 

Still don't get how an argument that a SK in an open setup game would holster isn't pinging any of you as, at the very least, a deliberate attempt to confuse the thread.  I'll throw a self protective vote on VerBarm if it comes down to me or him (I know I'm town and don't know about him, so even if I had no reason to be suspicious of that slot it's the right play) but would much, much rather lynch Andrej as potential scum given what I consider a neon flashing "I lied" sign surrounding him like a halo.

 

I have a short window of time on comp right now where I can check the thread every so often while I'm doing work, so if anyone has questions/comments for me they want addressed, please re-post them; I can't respond in any readable way from my phone and don't have the time it would take to go back and find them, so this is the best I've got.

Posted
  On 11/17/2014 at 7:20 PM, Cass said:

Nyn - let me repeat you're in no way my highest pick for scum, and I'm offering my observations. I value your opinions and the way you tend to express them. I just found some things confusing. That doesn't mean I think you are scum. It means I'm considering what those things may mean if you were.

 

On Thane... I totally get what you're saying about knowing how Thane plays - but (regardless of how accurate it is) he looked dodgy to me, and it took you aages (imo) to come straight out and actually give an opinion of how you thought Thane was playing this game.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

RE Verbarm - I don't know what a lot of the subtleties behind each irregularity are. Without people elaborating, I don't necessarily know what side they're coming down on. I get that you cast a vote because 'stuff'. I did read the entire thing. I just didn't always understand where you were coming from with some of it (as with Thane). gah I hate misunderstanding.

 

I didn't say you couldn't pinpoint, as with Thane it was more a case of you didn't say, for quite some time. (Even in the quote you posted, it 'shows' that you said 'what' not 'why' - until you were directly prompted). 

 

That's all. I found it odd. It jumped out at me because I find Thane and Verbarm odd. It says more about what I think about the way they are playing, than what I think about you - at this point, nothing has convinced me enough either way about you tbh. And I'm well aware that I'm inexperienced and that it comes through in my posts lol, I don't seem to be able to win (another reason why Kiv/DPR push that I'm good enough to be afraid of is sus btw). For now though, I'm looking at your play from the aspect that you've voted in the same direction I'm considering for Verbarm. I won't have more on what that means til things play out...

 

As far as Thane goes, I said I was gonna observe him and then make a call. Which I did. I don't really understand why it comes across as weird that I took my time to develop my read on him. I don't really know what to say in regards to that. I personally feel suspicious when people dish out reads since early on without seeing a clear progression.

 

As far as Verbram goes.... you haven't played with me before.... but the way I usually play is that I will throw in my thoughts when I have something to say (and I usually have something to say LOL). And when someone starts to give me the hibijibees I ISO all their content. It's how I roll. I agree that it took me a bit to do Verbram's ISO. Mostly to do with finding the time and then having to ISO two people. It took me hours to write those up. But what was always clear is that I did not like some of their posts. Did I quote each and every post I disliked and said.... I don't like this, here's why. I don't like that, here's why. I really don't like this......... no. That's Wombat's style :P...... I said I was getting bad juju from them and I was basically trying to find the time to sit down and ISO them properly. I prefer to sum up all my thoughts. But then Bram asked me about it, so I gave him a nutshell explanation and promised I will get to doing the ISOs. Which I did. I fail to see what comes off as odd to you. 

 

You're obviously entitled to feel the way you like but I don't quite follow lol

Posted
  On 11/17/2014 at 7:13 PM, dicetosser1 said:

 

  On 11/16/2014 at 8:20 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

 

  On 11/16/2014 at 8:09 PM, Andrej said:

Yeah - still not correlated at all. Tone reading isn't just a guess so firstly you're mischaracterizing on a grand scale there.

 

NK speculation allows for misdirection in a nutshell and believe it or not the outcome you're hoping for isn't very likely to happen because the wolves already have a better idea than the average player as to what actually happened.

 

So not trying to tunnel here, but this just blows my mind. 

 

You are saying that tone reading isn't just a guess.

 

You are also saying that NK speculation allows for misdirection because the wolves know more than the town.

 

FTR, I completely disagree with both of these points. Tone reading is exactly just guessing and NK speculation is a valuable tool, alongside coroner information, to be used to corner scum.

 

 

DPR  have you ever spoken to someone and, just by the way they have said something, known they were being sarcastic?  I bet you have.  THATS tone reading. It IS a thing.  it is harder with text as opposed to voice but it can be done. You can still get a feel for whether its honest, has a natural flow to it etc.  is it 100% reliable??? no. but it  probably is more then 50%.

 

 

RE BPV for SK    the thing about bpv is if a vig shoots someone and they dont die   esp now with the JK dead  then wouldnt they just find a reason to lynch the survivor the next day  or at worse wait and shoot them again?  Kinda seems like a BPV is a giveaway if you do get targetted and you will wind up dead anyways.

 

 

It's only a thing if the people you are playing with can't fake it.  I can. I know Wes can, and Wombat can, etc.  From what I read in-thread, Ragnarok can.  This is the kind of approach that directly lead to the gambit's success; it wasn't just that Talya and I were gunning for each other, it was that nobody believed there was any possibility that we faked how viciously and strongly we were doing it.  Which, of course, we did.  So when Wombat says that the gambit would never work on DM these days, I think he's on crazy pills or lying.  Just imagine, for example, what would happen if Andrej gets lynched and flips scum ("Andrej townspewed Kiv here ...").  And yeah, I'm town, but I could post, would post, and have posted just as "realistic" arguments with a scum teammate in games where I roll scum, so clearing me based on that - or anyone based on that - is handing the scum an engraved invitation to win:  "Make this play and you can skate to endgame unnoticed".

 

But on the BPV - yeah, as Wes said, that's it exactly.

Posted
  On 11/13/2014 at 5:58 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

Vote Count D1.20:

 

Pral (5): Nyn [#691], Yates [#698], Sili [#700], Leelou [#1302], Thane [#1299]Sili (4): Kivam [#362], Krak [#1026], Wombat [#1213], Verbarm [#1239]

DPR (2): Deslami [#1457], Cass [#1566]Kivam (2): AJ [#1192], Darthe [#1311]Unvote (1): DICETHEICEMAN [#1183] Pral [#1323]Not Voting (7): Cass, DPR, Hallia, Stelio, Rags, TressAt the gallows: Pral

  
  On 11/13/2014 at 6:19 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

Vote Count D1.21:

 

Pral (5): Nyn [#691], Yates [#698], Sili [#700], Leelou [#1302], Thane [#1299]Sili (4): Kivam [#362], Krak [#1026], Wombat [#1213], Verbarm [#1239]

DPR (3): Deslami [#1457], Cass [#1566], Stelio [#1598]Kivam (2): AJ [#1192], Darthe [#1311]Unvote (1): DICETHEICEMAN [#1183] Pral [#1323]Not Voting (7): Cass, DPR, Hallia, Rags, TressAt the gallows: Pral

  
  On 11/13/2014 at 6:23 PM, Pralaya said:

Ok, so far, in the initial part of the game, my strongest scum read is Tress

 

Other than her initial random posts, her first few posts are agreeing with Des (a lot) and going after an easy target Sili. Both of them stood out because in her recaps these were the only two people she responded to, which felt very weird. Looks like she is hardcore white knighting Des, which makes me think she is scum.

 

Other than that, town read on Wombat, Csarmi, Nyn.

 

Sili is kind of weird, which surprisingly is a town tell for him. But will have to keep an eye on him. Thane does seem town but not as instinctive as he usually is. 

Most of the players I have not played with Cass, Kiva, DPR are kind of null so far.

  
  On 11/13/2014 at 6:31 PM, Pralaya said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 6:16 PM, Stelio Kontos said:

I am pretty content to lynch Pralaya -- I'm sorry, but if you can only catch up at 20 pages per day, you're probably never going to be caught up, and if you're never here to post then we're never ever going to be able to clear you, and I'd just as soon pick the scab now.  (And yes, I know that sounds mildly hypocritical since I haven't posted much, and no I don't care.)

 

 

Two things.

 

The game slows down as the days progresses. I pick up my posting D2-D3 onwards. Always.

 

And, my posts are always usually content oriented. Very rarely off-topic. So, there would be no reason for you to say "Oh, we cannot clear you at all !"

  
  On 11/13/2014 at 6:38 PM, Stelio Kontos said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 6:31 PM, Pralaya said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 6:16 PM, Stelio Kontos said:

I am pretty content to lynch Pralaya -- I'm sorry, but if you can only catch up at 20 pages per day, you're probably never going to be caught up, and if you're never here to post then we're never ever going to be able to clear you, and I'd just as soon pick the scab now.  (And yes, I know that sounds mildly hypocritical since I haven't posted much, and no I don't care.)

 

 

Two things.

 

The game slows down as the days progresses. I pick up my posting D2-D3 onwards. Always.

 

And, my posts are always usually content oriented. Very rarely off-topic. So, there would be no reason for you to say "Oh, we cannot clear you at all !"

 

I'm all for content oriented and rarely off topic, and I'm all for not spamming, but, there's a difference between that and not posting at all for a day-plus. 

 

Regardless, you have ample opportunity the next few hours to do enough to no get lynched since it's a mix of "the guy you subbed in for was kinda wolfy" and "not posting" -- it seems like posting some decent thoughts should cross off both those objections. 

 

You're going to be held to the "I post more on d2" standard by the way.

 

watching-you-gif.gif?w=580

  
  On 11/13/2014 at 6:53 PM, dicetosser1 said:

here madly playing catchup as it looks like DL is when i need to go to work

 

 

right now my vote is going to sili

  
  On 11/13/2014 at 7:07 PM, Sili Quirrels said:

Vote Count D1.21:

 

Pral (5): Nyn [#691], Yates [#698], Sili [#700], Leelou [#1302], Thane [#1299]Sili (5): Kivam [#362], Krak [#1026], Wombat [#1213], Verbarm [#1239] Dice [#1660]

DPR (3): Deslami [#1457], Cass [#1566], Stelio [#1598]Kivam (2): AJ [#1192], Darthe [#1311]Unvote (1): Pral [#1323]Not Voting (7): Cass, DPR, Hallia, Rags, TressAt the gallows: Pral

  
  On 11/13/2014 at 7:13 PM, Thane Vakarian said:

so, yeah. I'm gonna head home soon. Vote stays *nods* Cyas on the flipside

  
  On 11/13/2014 at 7:25 PM, Darthe said:

I'm gone in a half hour.  Prob won't be back more than for a minute or two until 830 or 9.

 

[unvote][v]##Dice[/v]

  
  On 11/13/2014 at 7:42 PM, Darthe said:

Perhaps.  I definitely think it would be nice to put a bit of pressure there.  He isn't good at reacting to it as scum.

  
  On 11/13/2014 at 8:08 PM, dicetosser1 said:

wtf?  Cass why are you yelling at me? especially when im not here?

 

##unvote 

  
  On 11/13/2014 at 8:52 PM, WWWwombat said:

Feels like someone hit me in the jaw with a hammer.  Catching up.  Main problem I have with the DPR lynch right now is that idk what it gets us if he flips town.  All it would tell me is that Des can't lay off a tunnel and Cass can't read Wes when she's never played with him.  Also, if I had to predict before this game even started, two people for Des to have as scum reads on D1, they would be DPR and Darthe.  So the fact that Des has those as his top two just makes me feel like he's either scumming it up or clowning it up.  Also, I'm kinda pissed off right now.

  
  On 11/13/2014 at 9:30 PM, dicetosser1 said:

my reads  tho im not totally caught up

 

Strong Town

 

me obviously

Cass

Thane

 

medium strong lean

yates

nyn

 

im gonna have a three person null pile  i will try to explain the reasons

 

Des/csarmi  I am purposely keeping des null. I have agreed with points he has made in his tunnel. I think he needs to get out of the tunnel before his yelling brings the walls down. BUT I can see both town and mafia reasons for his actions. Town  he believes what he is saying. Mafia  the fact that des caught DPR as scum has been bought up in 2 recent games. Marlfox and this one. I can see scum, particularly a experienced team, using this as a way to try and get DPR gone or possible clear one of the 2 if they are both scum.

 

Csarmi is actually holding des back for me a little. He isnt as active as he usually is as town and so i cant read him the way i usually do.

 

 

Kivam   a lot of his posts  esp early seemed to be written so that they were ambigious on purpose. Am watching him

 

DPR   like i said i think des has some valid points. but i feel like he is just trying to get reactions.  also watching

 

the low end for me is sili.  as i think i said its based on reads based in ongoing game so am not elaborating at this time.

  
  On 11/13/2014 at 10:31 PM, WWWwombat said:

Releasing Control Art Restriction Systems 3, 2 and 1. Situation A Release Level 1. The Cromwell Approval is now in effect. Maintaining limited release until the target has been silenced.

  
  On 11/13/2014 at 11:07 PM, Yates. said:

 

  On 11/13/2014 at 11:05 PM, Leelou said:

[v]##sili[/v]

Why is Sili more scummy than Pral or DPR??
Posted

Yates certainly doesn't spew Pray as a non-wolf. I found no point where he could have (or should have) moved off Pray.

 

Still hate Wombat's seal.

Posted
  On 11/17/2014 at 5:11 PM, Cass said:

 

  On 11/17/2014 at 5:00 PM, Darthe said:

I'd be interested in seeing that document.  Or parts of it.

 

It's coming - in chunks so noone dies from glazing over - once I figure out what order is most relevant. I was gonna start with the whole Nyn-Verbarm thing, then I got caught up on a Thane might-be-Scum-or-at-least-SK thing, followed by Des-and-SK-thing-is-odd-for-him-and-actually-their-votes-are-really-inconsistent-with-their-'logic' thing, a DPR-and-Kiv-are-sus thing, a Krak-did-something-weird-in-his-switch-from-Nyn-to-Sili thing, Wombat's-random-voting-doesn't-make-sense thing; AJ-freaks-me-out thing and so the list goes on. I think you were right at the beginning. This whole thread is shenanigans. I understand DPRs frustration. My aim is to get as much out as possible before EoD, hopefully with links and logic as well as gut.

 

  On 11/17/2014 at 5:01 PM, csarmi said:

 

  On 11/17/2014 at 4:53 PM, Cass said:

Csarmi, are you pointing towards Krak?

 

I'm what?

Your poem. Here we're asking who everyone thinks is SK. You post lyrics saying you don't think it'll fly but you found your answer on page 21. On 21 you voted Krak. I linked. Exploring options whether or not they make much sense. I'm funny like that.

It's a song by Cranberries called Twenty-one and a placeholder for me to remember where i left off. Yea i love singing.

 

(Page twenty one)

Posted
  On 11/17/2014 at 7:56 PM, Kivam said:

 

  On 11/17/2014 at 7:13 PM, dicetosser1 said:

 

  On 11/16/2014 at 8:20 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

 

  On 11/16/2014 at 8:09 PM, Andrej said:

Yeah - still not correlated at all. Tone reading isn't just a guess so firstly you're mischaracterizing on a grand scale there.

 

NK speculation allows for misdirection in a nutshell and believe it or not the outcome you're hoping for isn't very likely to happen because the wolves already have a better idea than the average player as to what actually happened.

 

 

So not trying to tunnel here, but this just blows my mind. 

 

You are saying that tone reading isn't just a guess.

 

You are also saying that NK speculation allows for misdirection because the wolves know more than the town.

 

FTR, I completely disagree with both of these points. Tone reading is exactly just guessing and NK speculation is a valuable tool, alongside coroner information, to be used to corner scum.

 

DPR  have you ever spoken to someone and, just by the way they have said something, known they were being sarcastic?  I bet you have.  THATS tone reading. It IS a thing.  it is harder with text as opposed to voice but it can be done. You can still get a feel for whether its honest, has a natural flow to it etc.  is it 100% reliable??? no. but it  probably is more then 50%.

 

 

RE BPV for SK    the thing about bpv is if a vig shoots someone and they dont die   esp now with the JK dead  then wouldnt they just find a reason to lynch the survivor the next day  or at worse wait and shoot them again?  Kinda seems like a BPV is a giveaway if you do get targetted and you will wind up dead anyways.

 

It's only a thing if the people you are playing with can't fake it.  I can. I know Wes can, and Wombat can, etc.  From what I read in-thread, Ragnarok can.  This is the kind of approach that directly lead to the gambit's success; it wasn't just that Talya and I were gunning for each other, it was that nobody believed there was any possibility that we faked how viciously and strongly we were doing it.  Which, of course, we did.  So when Wombat says that the gambit would never work on DM these days, I think he's on crazy pills or lying.  Just imagine, for example, what would happen if Andrej gets lynched and flips scum ("Andrej townspewed Kiv here ...").  And yeah, I'm town, but I could post, would post, and have posted just as "realistic" arguments with a scum teammate in games where I roll scum, so clearing me based on that - or anyone based on that - is handing the scum an engraved invitation to win:  "Make this play and you can skate to endgame unnoticed".

 

But on the BPV - yeah, as Wes said, that's it exactly.

You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.

 

There is always someone who can toneread you. And btw i dont think Wombat is actually good at faking tone FTR.

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