[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread

[Nynaeve]

  On 11/17/2014 at 4:57 PM, Cass said:

Nyn I've spent all night so far trying to figure this out - I have a 20 page word document that feels like it goes round in interlooping circles, and I don't know where to break it up.

I find it pointless offering opinions without giving the context, and I find that hard without hard evidence linked etc, but I just feel uneasy that, in my re-read, I noticed you were potentially siding a lot - both directly and possibly indirectly - with 'both' sides. Clear as mud? Sorry, organised thoughts are eventually coming... you asked though 

 

I don't understand.... what sides are we talking about? I think I've been very clear about my stances and backed them up with evidence. I'm usually very opinionated either way.... but I don't understand what you're getting at at all.

[Cass]

  On 11/17/2014 at 5:00 PM, Darthe said:

I'd be interested in seeing that document.  Or parts of it.

It's coming - in chunks so noone dies from glazing over - once I figure out what order is most relevant. I was gonna start with the whole Nyn-Verbarm thing, then I got caught up on a Thane might-be-Scum-or-at-least-SK thing, followed by Des-and-SK-thing-is-odd-for-him-and-actually-their-votes-are-really-inconsistent-with-their-'logic' thing, a DPR-and-Kiv-are-sus thing, a Krak-did-something-weird-in-his-switch-from-Nyn-to-Sili thing, Wombat's-random-voting-doesn't-make-sense thing; AJ-freaks-me-out thing and so the list goes on. I think you were right at the beginning. This whole thread is shenanigans. I understand DPRs frustration. My aim is to get as much out as possible before EoD, hopefully with links and logic as well as gut.

 

  On 11/17/2014 at 5:01 PM, csarmi said:

 

  On 11/17/2014 at 4:53 PM, Cass said:

Csarmi, are you pointing towards Krak?

I'm what?

 

Your poem. Here we're asking who everyone thinks is SK. You post lyrics saying you don't think it'll fly but you found your answer on page 21. On 21 you voted Krak. I linked. Exploring options whether or not they make much sense. I'm funny like that.

[Darthe]

  On 11/17/2014 at 5:11 PM, Cass said:

 

  On 11/17/2014 at 5:00 PM, Darthe said:

I'd be interested in seeing that document.  Or parts of it.

It's coming - in chunks so noone dies from glazing over - once I figure out what order is most relevant. I was gonna start with the whole Nyn-Verbarm thing, then I got caught up on a Thane might-be-Scum-or-at-least-SK thing, followed by Des-and-SK-thing-is-odd-for-him-and-actually-their-votes-are-really-inconsistent-with-their-'logic' thing, a DPR-and-Kiv-are-sus thing, a Krak-did-something-weird-in-his-switch-from-Nyn-to-Sili thing, Wombat's-random-voting-doesn't-make-sense thing; AJ-freaks-me-out thing and so the list goes on. I think you were right at the beginning. This whole thread is shenanigans. I understand DPRs frustration. My aim is to get as much out as possible before EoD, hopefully with links and logic as well as gut.

 

 

Divide it up by section, or conflict, or by persons name and put them in spoilers and post what you have.  I want to see it.

[Pralaya]

Why exactly are we discussing if someone is a SK or not? How would we ever able to find that out through gameplay?

[Cass]

  On 11/15/2014 at 7:11 PM, Nynaeve said:

Oh and reason for vote can be found in the ISOs I just posted:

 

[Links Spoilered]

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Verbal ISO: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/91702-standard-1110-top-tier-vanilla-game-thread/?p=3380204

Barm ISO: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/91702-standard-1110-top-tier-vanilla-game-thread/?p=3380298

 

 

 

No sum ups cause I'm being mean lol  (actually, more like the migraine didn't go away so I can't be arsed).

 

Starting here Nyn - I'm not sure why you voted VerBarm after your ISO - even though I'm considering the same vote myself. The lack of sum-ups probs didn't help (I know you had a migraine and migraines totes suck). But I find this strange, in the context that I'm not sure if a lot of your early posts were 'distancing' from/making excuses for players I'm considering now as Scum - notably, Thane, I think it was. I found the interplay and rationales and the way the vote was at one point split between you and Sili strange. I didn't buy your reason for liking Thane as the game went on, especially when I went back and read Thane's interactions in the context that he might be Scum. So, in a nutshell, I understand that you went from saying you had bad juju with VerBarm, when it would have made sense to create some distance, to saying they were meh and you couldn't really pinpoint any reasons for them being scum when things got a little hot in their direction. That's why I was interested in your 'new' 'ISOs' of the two, and your current/'ultimate' view.

 

What I feel I got, in your ISOs was a very thorough recount of play by play occurrences, except it left things out. Like your strong opinions on most things (which for you, yes, seems strange). Then the fact that one of the biggest things that stood out for me in the re-read - as Town - during that whole beginning thing was the votes and pushes surrounding Sili - and therefore the possibility of a link to setting up a mislynch train.

 

Yet, I felt, in your ISOs, this link was kinda downplayed/skipped around. I found that interesting since in the beginning, VerBarm's jump on Leelou apparently rubbed us 'both' the wrong way, so I thought you, with your strong opinions etc. would be watching them closely and coming up with lots of 'ammo' if they were ever to be scum. In making my own version of your ISO, I get how things become easier to report than offer huge opinions on, but I definitely thought you'd draw attention to the link between VerBarm and getting the train rolling on Sili. That you didn't, but still ended up voting in the same direction I was pointing, after I posted here may possibly be 'bussing'. Not saying that it is - you're definitely not my strongest read for scum right now, but it's a thought.

 

Anyway, here's part of the massive document showing the random links with Sili and certain players early on...

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

First there's a lot of 'play' between Thane, Barm and Yates. I might go into this in another post. Back to Sili.

 

AJ originally voted Sili, reportedly on a hunch, because Sili voting Thane as a D1 lynch ‘joke’ rubbed him the wrong way. (Nyn mentions this)

 

Interestingly, Barm was the one to float the ‘is Sili being Scum?’ line and apparently push it, following a bit of AJ vs Sili.  I’m wondering if that was Barm taking an opportunity to set up a mislynch train. That was later followed up with second and third votes from Kiv (doesn't make much sense) and Thane (Nyn kinda plays this whole thing down). It all smells a bit coordinated - across a distance.

 

'Random' interactions occur:

 

Barm FoSes Sili, Leelou says it’s null, Arsis says ‘it’s different’ - Barm makes it a big point.

 

Kiv votes Sili #362 ‘thought’ he was SK

 

Verbal makes an awkward, self-deprecating statement that Sili is prob town post #371

 

Thane votes Sili, backs up Des and Nyn as ‘Town’, doubts Arsis and Darthe #453  

 

Krak, in amongst astute opinions about almost everybody, swaps his vote from Nyn to Sili. He spends a big paragraph discussing these two players, at opposite ends of his post, whilst almost everybody else gets 1-3 lines. Most of the stuff against Sili is… odd. 

 

AJ unvotes Sili and votes for PRal instead #1117 – backing off 'because other players he is skeptical of joined the wagon for ‘bad’ reasons'. Truth or distance?

 

Wombat votes DPR because he’s bored and then unvotes   (all distraction?) and then votes Sili after explanation from Kiv 

 

AJ unvotes Sili and Votes Kiv to "rustle up some jimmies"

 

Barm FINALLY (after all that pushing) votes Sili #1239

 

Thane unvotes Sili #1299 cos his explanation made ‘sense’ and he was ‘willing to give him some more time'. 

 

 

 

The interactions are all just a little weird -  and I find that even more strange since this eventual night-kill was a complete mislynch.

 

That's all. One of the main reasons I'm for voting VerBarm is the connection to ultimately mislynching Sili. I was interested to see a thorough 'analysis' from you, because I felt like to that point you'd been sitting on the fence -  'they have bad juju but I don't really have a reason why' ( which I took as possibly 'if/when they flip Scum I said I didn't like them - but I'm not actually giving anything away to get them lynched"), which, is kinda how I feel about the lack of 'sum ups' with your ISOs, at the same time as you're voting them/throwing them under the bus (as much as I know that migraines suck)...

[DPR]

  On 11/17/2014 at 4:51 PM, Cass said:

Finally! A way to find the parts I'm missing! I like this logic-and-gut-together idea :)

 

I'm really not solid on the SK thing at the moment, and I think it's because I don't really understand the logic as far as an 'SK' is concerned. It feels over my head.

 

BUT

 

Going on gut, with players that feel like they're chopping and changing too much to come off as cleverly neutral or slightly more to either side (read: their stuff is just not making sense to me right now), which is the only way I can think an SK would play (?) I'm considering the following options as top of my list, not necessarily in this order:

 

Kiv - I don't understand his voting processes Day 1 or the 'logic' he used to rationalise and I don't trust him. I don't get the push at the beginning of the day either. I'm working on analysing all the logic here, in certain contexts, but it's not clear right now.

Deslarmi - for the reasons mentioned here. Namely the pooh-poohing the idea of hunting for SK, then driving the suspicion for who might be in the role, then not actually doing anything about it. I haven't seen Des (in particular) do this all game with any other issue.

Wombat - *Maybe* For some of the reasons you mention above: baiting-posts, subtext (although I wasn't sure what you were getting at at the time, heh), but like Darthe, I'm just not sold what deal exactly did you offer, and why was it yours to make?

AJ - I can't remember seeing a straightforward reads list from him.

Nyn - Because she seems to be balancing her involvement with both 'sides' as I'm reading them right now.

Anyone who has been particularly quiet - because I'm not sure the SK fired.

And there may have been something about Krak, but I can't remember now. 

 

I didn't offer him a deal - as suspected SK, I invited him to make a deal with the town (i.e. you name who you want shot and the SK will do that. this lasts until the SK fails and is lynched. The idea is to put a killing role on a leash. There are a lot of ways that this can go, but all of them will result in anti-town moves revealing anti-town behavior. It's a really interesting and cool dynamic if handled properly.

 

However, in our circumstances, the town play is to point out my (and others) suspicions with plenty of time for it to be analyzed and voted upon.

 

This is a question for anybody and everybody - why would he pull the EOD shenanigans that he did if he was town? He derailed the chances of another player being voted, which could have given us better information. And, he does have the GF possibility going, which is an obvious reason to be viewed and cleared. 

[Cass]

Thoughts Darthe?

[DPR]

  On 11/17/2014 at 4:43 PM, Darthe said:

I don't always play that deliberately DPR so I like getting things spelled out on occassion.  I doubt that Womby is SK here, mainly because he does play deliberately.  

 

Common SK play says that you play to the middle, not top, of the pack.  Uncommon SK play says you jump to a town leader position and then let it fall off.  In this setup he takes twice the risk of getting killed at night by playing to the top and staying there, which is where I see Womby.  He is actively attempting to be a town leader and maintain it.  

 

IMO you, Kiv, Des, Nyn and maybe Rags are all decently poised to be SK though Des probably is too high for that.  Of course, it's equally likely that the SK is someone who looks scummy or is inactive, which leads back to my opinion that hunting for a specific role is mostly pointless since we can't account for all of the variables in how each person would play.  

 

All I can say to this and the many other posts like it is...

 

If I was known for a behavior (tell), I would change that tell up with a quickness. I've seen it done. I've done it myself.

 

I don't understand this "he always acts that way" argument at all. It makes zero sense to me.  

[Cass]

@DPR - I see the benefit for the Town in that scenario, but not really for the SK, since it means they're likely to be NK the very next night? Or is that what people were talking about, with the NKs being put in place earlier(?days) before the deadline? That sounds like pretty risky business... lol

[Nynaeve]

  On 11/17/2014 at 6:08 PM, Cass said:

Starting here Nyn - I'm not sure why you voted VerBarm after your ISO - even though I'm considering the same vote myself. The lack of sum-ups probs didn't help (I know you had a migraine and migraines totes suck). But I find this strange, in the context that I'm not sure if a lot of your early posts were 'distancing' from/making excuses for players I'm considering now as Scum - notably, Thane, I think it was. I found the interplay and rationales and the way the vote was at one point split between you and Sili strange. I didn't buy your reason for liking Thane as the game went on, especially when I went back and read Thane's interactions in the context that he might be Scum. So, in a nutshell, I understand that you went from saying you had bad juju with VerBarm, when it would have made sense to create some distance, to saying they were meh and you couldn't really pinpoint any reasons for them being scum when things got a little hot in their direction. That's why I was interested in your 'new' 'ISOs' of the two, and your current/'ultimate' view.

What I feel I got, in your ISOs was a very thorough recount of play by play occurrences, except it left things out. Like your strong opinions on most things (which for you, yes, seems strange). Then the fact that one of the biggest things that stood out for me in the re-read - as Town - during that whole beginning thing was the votes and pushes surrounding Sili - and therefore the possibility of a link to setting up a mislynch train.

 

Yet, I felt, in your ISOs, this link was kinda downplayed/skipped around. I found that interesting since in the beginning, VerBarm's jump on Leelou apparently rubbed us 'both' the wrong way, so I thought you, with your strong opinions etc. would be watching them closely and coming up with lots of 'ammo' if they were ever to be scum. In making my own version of your ISO, I get how things become easier to report than offer huge opinions on, but I definitely thought you'd draw attention to the link between VerBarm and getting the train rolling on Sili. That you didn't, but still ended up voting in the same direction I was pointing, after I posted here may possibly be 'bussing'. Not saying that it is - you're definitely not my strongest read for scum right now, but it's a thought.

 

1. As far as Thane goes.... Even though I don't understand why I have to explain this yet again..... I have quite a few games under my belt with Thane. You don't. So you couldn't relate, sure, but that doesn't make what I say wrong or off. He has a particular way of playing that doesn't really agree with me. It's no diss at him and I think he knows it. Every player chooses to play as they want. But this makes it very easy to misread him. Since he doesn't seem to develop his style, I have to adjust myself to read him properly. I have a more cut and dry way of playing and he has more of a 'say whatever crosses my mind without a care even if it looks scummy as hell'. Sili plays very similarly, as it were. Only Sili has a lot less experience than Thane does. In any case, I felt that Thane's posts were well within his town meta. I have quite a few posts talking about my Thane read and I stand behind it. He is trying to figure things out, imo. He also spams some which is also normal for him. I haven't seen anything from him that made me think.... well... that's weird. He's a lot more subdued as scum, imo. More careful. Here I feel like he has been rather careless. He doesn't stop to think...mmm... if I say this is it gonna attract negative attention? He just goes YOLO and says it. That's townThane imo.

 

2. Re: Verbram... how could you possibly not get why I cast a vote on them? lol  I made an extensive ISO depicting each and every single FoS and irregularity in their play. I didn't do a sum up but it's all there. And if someone is legitimately looking to see my line of thought they SHOULD read the entire thing.

 

I REALLY don't like you misrepresnting me and saying that I couldn't pin point why I felt iffy about Verbram before I did the ISOs. Here's the post where I answered Barm on why I felt iffy about'em:

 

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 1:15 PM, Nynaeve said:

 

  On 11/12/2014 at 1:03 PM, Barmacral said:

Why do you have bad juju about us? You've said this several times but I don't recall you giving a reason for it.

 

Yeah. I know. The problem is that I'll have to ISO both you and Verbal to elaborate and I haven't had time to do that quite yet..... I have a feeling it'll take a long long while. Off the top of my head, though, I felt iffy about the way both you and Verbal regarded Lee. I hope I'm remembering right.... but I recall not liking you noting how weird it was that she wouldn't take the town cred that Salami was giving her from her 'Sup' post. I thought that her response was null to town. Your comment did not make sense at all. Added to that there was Verbal's thing where he got on Leelou's case when she said he tends to drown the thread with spiderman memes as scum. Then when Des validated this he gave him brownie points for it. I know that Verbal addressed this claiming he expected a different reaction from each... but I thought it was a BS explanation lol   What Leelou said is either true or not, reaction testing aside. At the end of the day.... he nudged her over something he freely admitted was true later on. That pings. He usually takes a long long looooong while to assess Leelou and the way he sort of jumped at her over something bogus seemed out of place for him.

 

I'm pretty sure there were more posts that bugged me that I can't remember right now. You specifically made some posts that made sense to me but some that I didn't really care for. But yeah.... I'm gonna have to get around to the ISO to expand more.

 

 

Obviously I couldn't recall every single post both Verbal and him did. I'm not superwoman. But I did recall the stuff that bugged me the most. And the points I made above are the ones I focused on in the ISO.

 

Another thing I don't like is that you're talking under the premise that my mentions of Verbram is distancing as if you've already decided I'm scum and you're trying to fit the pieces to reflect that. It should be quite the opposite. You should piece things together and reach a conclusion... not predetermine something based on... nothing.... and try to fit it into your narrative.

 

I don't even follow the rest of your post so I can't even comment lol. Might want to not beat around the bush and be a bit more concise and to the point in what you're trying to say or ask. It's very easy to get lost in your posts. Just s tip.

[Tommyrod]

Deadline is in just over 7 hours.

 

I'll post a VC in about 3 hours. Sorry for the delay.

[Cass]

"The Des-and-SK-thing-is-odd-for-him-and-actually-their-votes-are-really-inconsistent-with-their-'logic' thing."

 

The first part (saying it's not worth hunting SK, but putting forward multiple options -across multiple posts- for players who might be SK) has already been addressed in my previous posts. The way their votes occurred D1 part is a different story, but on review I thought that too was rather odd*.

 

*This may be just because I'm new and have no experience/little understanding of voting strategy?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Des says he wouldn’t like Town to lynch Sili Day 1. Is really pushing DPR.

 

Votes DPR

 

Changes Vote to Kiv because no reason (other than "no one wants to obvscum DPR…") 

 

Votes DPR when Wom says he’s open to a lynch

 

BUT THEN, when Wom asks who should be shot with two theoretical bullets (interesting), responds DPR and (this came from nowhere) ??DARTHE?? 

 

I missed where exactly it happened, but this vote counter has them down after that point voting against Dice

 

Two posts later, it's almost EoD and now they're voting against Pray

 

Still pushing that Sili is innocent Town and then claiming they're Seer and N0 view was Stelio Town.

 

 

Yet, it's apparently not until after morning that DPR is someone he's gonna consider putting on the bench. I had decided DPR may be worth benching, following the 'scummy' links I mentioned in my re-read, plus the high possibility of 'confbias?' that I potentially developed between DPR and Yates. I knew something was up there, I just believed DPR was the one leading the circles, which is ultimately what made me swap from voting Sili to DPR (when really, what if it was all Yates?).

 

 

What confuses me about Deslarmi's voting pattern is - well everything! I don't understand the logic of voting for so many when you are pushing one particular player (DPR) as hard as he was the entire time?

[Nynaeve]

  On 11/17/2014 at 6:41 PM, Tommyrod said:

Deadline is in just over 7 hours.

 

I'll post a VC in about 3 hours. Sorry for the delay.

 

You are NOT forgiven

[Darthe]

In that I am interested to see more of this progression:

 

Barm calls Sili scum, makes an issue of Leelou, Verb calls Sili town, Sili garners votes, Barm is late on the train almost 1000 posts later.  

I wonder what Verb thinks of all of that.  I also thought it might be telling if Barm broke the tie there but he didn't.  I went forward to post 1296 and the VC says that Barm created a 2 vote spread 3 hours before DL.  That's not telling in and of itself though it is kind of bad timing.  

 

I think it's a bit premature to pull much from vote analyses but this is one of those times where the Hydra can be insightful.  I want to see how verb interprets the EoD vote counts now, if he shows before deadline.  

 

@Mod, could we get a link to EoD each day in the OP?

[Tommyrod]

Please remind me to add death flips and EOD links to the OP when I get home tonight.

[Darthe]

  On 11/17/2014 at 6:12 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

 

  On 11/17/2014 at 4:43 PM, Darthe said:

I don't always play that deliberately DPR so I like getting things spelled out on occassion.  I doubt that Womby is SK here, mainly because he does play deliberately.  

 

Common SK play says that you play to the middle, not top, of the pack.  Uncommon SK play says you jump to a town leader position and then let it fall off.  In this setup he takes twice the risk of getting killed at night by playing to the top and staying there, which is where I see Womby.  He is actively attempting to be a town leader and maintain it.  

 

IMO you, Kiv, Des, Nyn and maybe Rags are all decently poised to be SK though Des probably is too high for that.  Of course, it's equally likely that the SK is someone who looks scummy or is inactive, which leads back to my opinion that hunting for a specific role is mostly pointless since we can't account for all of the variables in how each person would play.  

 

All I can say to this and the many other posts like it is...

 

If I was known for a behavior (tell), I would change that tell up with a quickness. I've seen it done. I've done it myself.

 

I don't understand this "he always acts that way" argument at all. It makes zero sense to me.  

 

It isn't a matter of behavior but one of anticipating logic.  Wombat, if SK, probably wants to win this game.  Thus he doesn't need to set himself up to get NK'd on D1 or D2 when mafia has a total of four kills.  Knowing him as a logical individual I wouldn't expect him to take the lead position within the town, or at least one of the lead positions which is arguably where he has placed himself.  We've all done things that go against mafia 101 because we are experienced players (soz Cass) but this is still a numbers game and the numbers say that an SK doesn't act the way Womby has.  That's my thought.

[Cass]

  On 11/17/2014 at 6:45 PM, Darthe said:

Barm calls Sili scum, makes an issue of Leelou, Verb calls Sili town, Sili garners votes, Barm is late on the train almost 1000 posts later.  

I wonder what Verb thinks of all of that.  I also thought it might be telling if Barm broke the tie there but he didn't.  I went forward to post 1296 and the VC says that Barm created a 2 vote spread 3 hours before DL.  That's not telling in and of itself though it is kind of bad timing.  

 

Why couldn't I have put it this way? *Throws hands up in the air*

But yes. That.

[Darthe]

The biggest threat right now is that discussion has went everywhere and votes have practically stopped.  I don't think it's DADV quite yet but the fact that even Verbarm seem comfortable with this lynch is maddening.  

[Nynaeve]

  On 11/17/2014 at 6:12 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

I don't understand this "he always acts that way" argument at all. It makes zero sense to me.  

 

 

Here's the thing. I 100% agree with you that a player should play the same as scum and town. No disagreements there. That's what I try to do, if not always fully succeed. Heh.

 

But there are quite a few players that their town and scum game is different. I don't know if it's their inability to manage it..... doing it unconsciously..... lack of play development. Whatever. But it's there. So I rely on it, especially on D1 as a basis and especially with players I often misread. It's little things like thread presence, motivation, the way they carry themselves. I know it's not TOTALLY reliable....and I respect the fact that you might not like it... but I do feel that it often helps point me in the right direction. But I'm always re-calbirating and factoring in new info. So I use the best of both worlds, you could say.

[DPR]

  On 11/17/2014 at 6:56 PM, Darthe said:

The biggest threat right now is that discussion has went everywhere and votes have practically stopped.  I don't think it's DADV quite yet but the fact that even Verbarm seem comfortable with this lynch is maddening.  

 

Again with the drama.

 

What exactly is the threat? We have a vote leader. Nyn has made an excellent case against that leader. I'd rather hear Verb's thoughts before lynching him, but I agree with Nyn.

 

Let's say the day progresses as is, what's been said is said and Vermacral is lynched. 

 

Why is this a threat?

[Thane Vakarian]

i think the threat is that the votes in the current state aren't based on a lot of voters, too many people absent or not active enough.

 

Nyn did have a good case, but i still have doubts that Verbarm is scum here. It doesn't help that neither are in for now. 

[DPR]

  On 11/17/2014 at 7:08 PM, Nynaeve said:

 

  On 11/17/2014 at 6:12 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

I don't understand this "he always acts that way" argument at all. It makes zero sense to me.  

 

 

Here's the thing. I 100% agree with you that a player should play the same as scum and town. No disagreements there. That's what I try to do, if not always fully succeed. Heh.

 

But there are quite a few players that their town and scum game is different. I don't know if it's their inability to manage it..... doing it unconsciously..... lack of play development. Whatever. But it's there. So I rely on it, especially on D1 as a basis and especially with players I often misread. It's little things like thread presence, motivation, the way they carry themselves. I know it's not TOTALLY reliable....and I respect the fact that you might not like it... but I do feel that it often helps point me in the right direction. But I'm always re-calbirating and factoring in new info. So I use the best of both worlds, you could say.

 

 

Yep, but there is always that point where a player learns a new trick and bites you in the behind. That's why evidence is the most valued element of a case. Instinct can point you in the right direction, but evidence doesn't lie.

[dicetosser1]

  On 11/16/2014 at 8:20 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

 

  On 11/16/2014 at 8:09 PM, Andrej said:

Yeah - still not correlated at all. Tone reading isn't just a guess so firstly you're mischaracterizing on a grand scale there.

 

NK speculation allows for misdirection in a nutshell and believe it or not the outcome you're hoping for isn't very likely to happen because the wolves already have a better idea than the average player as to what actually happened.

 

So not trying to tunnel here, but this just blows my mind. 

 

You are saying that tone reading isn't just a guess.

 

You are also saying that NK speculation allows for misdirection because the wolves know more than the town.

 

FTR, I completely disagree with both of these points. Tone reading is exactly just guessing and NK speculation is a valuable tool, alongside coroner information, to be used to corner scum.

 

 

DPR  have you ever spoken to someone and, just by the way they have said something, known they were being sarcastic?  I bet you have.  THATS tone reading. It IS a thing.  it is harder with text as opposed to voice but it can be done. You can still get a feel for whether its honest, has a natural flow to it etc.  is it 100% reliable??? no. but it  probably is more then 50%.

 

 

RE BPV for SK    the thing about bpv is if a vig shoots someone and they dont die   esp now with the JK dead  then wouldnt they just find a reason to lynch the survivor the next day  or at worse wait and shoot them again?  Kinda seems like a BPV is a giveaway if you do get targetted and you will wind up dead anyways.

[DPR]

  On 11/17/2014 at 7:10 PM, Thane Vakarian said:

i think the threat is that the votes in the current state aren't based on a lot of voters, too many people absent or not active enough.

 

Nyn did have a good case, but i still have doubts that Verbarm is scum here. It doesn't help that neither are in for now. 

 

I would still like to know what Darthe has to say, but to your point, what control do we have over played that won't play? This seems like an overstatement of the obvious to me?

[Pralaya]

[v]##verb/barm[/v]

 

Deadline is at 6 am my time. Won't be oh then.