[Advanced] Kronos and Kaylee's Firefly Mafia Won

[Tommyrod]

Still hoping Clov is scum because I was damn sure he was before the claim and that would turn this game around. If we have any sort of anything left that can try to verify that, please do.

[Tommyrod]

I wouldn't object to a shot on one of Verb or Leelou if the pair can be partially read as a duo. Verb > Leelou in scum equity to my mind; I think he's a stronger player (no offense to her) capable of better fake tone and the last time we were scum he was super quiet as Verb-Tina hydra. The way Leelou walked back her scum read on me after Nyn prompted her to re-read my posts read genuine also.

[Andrej]

Despot

Nyn

Alanna

Csarmi

Yates

Pral

 

Clov

Verb

Tommy

 

Hallia

Leelou

 

Forgot Pral.

[Tommyrod]

Something from early game: if one of Verb or Clov flip scum, then Verb-Clov team makes sense given Verb's initial avoidance of the Clov-Lee interaction. There's also some small things like Verb FOSing Salami for following Clov's Lee vote, Clov was reluctant to vote Verb D1 because Verb hadn't posted, called Clov his #1 townie and got a little butthurt when I said he was leaving himself room to flip his read on Clov if Salami flipped town instead of scum, and made some empty commentary toward him. When I asked Verb why he was townreading Clov he didn't have a reason. When I told him to sheep me onto Clov he refused. I don't think he ever acknowledged or discussed the doc claim, either.

 

One of those could-be-something-could-be-nothings for later.

[Andrej]

Tom do you agree that Hallia needs to die

[Tommyrod]

Tom do you agree that Hallia needs to die

If you remember what I said earlier about suspects that float near the bottom of the POE but keep bubbling up and surviving being more likely to be scum, then Hallia is likely to be scum. I used to read her based on her stubbornness and confidence but she taught me she's able to fake that now (kinda my fault). I'm gonna look at how she played in the Final Fantasy game that she was scum with me and SP (and claimed SP was scum for acting the same here as he did in that FF game but that was like... the opposite of the truth) and see if I see any similar behavior.

[Andrej]

I think the way she handled Sili today is pretty telling.

 

It was like she never doubted that something was off - just that Sili was lying/trolling and then after he flipped she basically shrugs it off.

 

I'll put together some posts.

[Tommyrod]

The out-of-place spastic cheerfulness and OT posting that she has in her early game here is also there:

 

http://www.vendetta-strada.net/showthread.php?tid=1819&pid=134034#pid134034

http://www.vendetta-strada.net/showthread.php?tid=1819&pid=134061#pid134061

http://www.vendetta-strada.net/showthread.php?tid=1819&pid=134074#pid134074

 

Check-ins and outs:

http://www.vendetta-strada.net/showthread.php?tid=1819&pid=134088#pid134088

http://www.vendetta-strada.net/showthread.php?tid=1819&pid=134933#pid134933

http://www.vendetta-strada.net/showthread.php?tid=1819&pid=135334#pid135334

http://www.vendetta-strada.net/showthread.php?tid=1819&pid=135387#pid135387

http://www.vendetta-strada.net/showthread.php?tid=1819&pid=136361#pid136361

 

Unexplained reads:

http://www.vendetta-strada.net/showthread.php?tid=1819&pid=134271#pid134271

http://www.vendetta-strada.net/showthread.php?tid=1819&pid=135155#pid135155

http://www.vendetta-strada.net/showthread.php?tid=1819&pid=137069#pid137069

http://www.vendetta-strada.net/showthread.php?tid=1819&pid=137084#pid137084

 

Statements of how she's town:

http://www.vendetta-strada.net/showthread.php?tid=1819&pid=134290#pid134290

http://www.vendetta-strada.net/showthread.php?tid=1819&pid=134946#pid134946

http://www.vendetta-strada.net/showthread.php?tid=1819&pid=134951#pid134951

http://www.vendetta-strada.net/showthread.php?tid=1819&pid=138308#pid138308

 

Snappy self defense:

http://www.vendetta-strada.net/showthread.php?tid=1819&pid=134373#pid134373

http://www.vendetta-strada.net/showthread.php?tid=1819&pid=134975#pid134975

http://www.vendetta-strada.net/showthread.php?tid=1819&pid=134984#pid134984

 

There's a LOT of "I won't be around because X" or "I'm drunk/eating/tired" excuses.

 

My impression of her scum game is she tries to be chatty but not actually discuss the game unless pressed to do so. She kinda floats along with the thread consensus. Clears obvious townies, suspects the most popular scum.

 

While reading her posts in ISO from this FF game, her posts from a BYOR round on VS popped up and her posting immediately changed to being on-topic and specific about events from the game.

[Andrej]

The way this has gone down to me points to a strong wolf team full of vocal players.

 

Still would like to hear her thoughts on this. No follow up from what I saw in ISO

 

I don't think Sili has made any sort of sense this entire game

 

Dirt throwing

 

[v] Des [/v]

 

you've broken my heart Des ; . ;

 

This still gives me some pause though - which was after Sili's post that he was Tracker and tracked Despot to Wombat N1. Now that we know that was a lie, I'm kind of skeptical now because I've seen Hallia do 'derp' moves as a wolf to kind of clear herself. One example was in DBZ when she asked if Night had ended yet when we were Mafia together. I used this as a reason to clear her further, so I don't think the reaction here makes her look as good as I said before because she could've known from the beginning it was a lie and this was how she was 'supposed' to react.

 

My eyes, does VC work like that??

 

Or he's faking it? -.- either way stahhhhp

 

I changed my vote before Sili went all nutso

 

About to vote him just to stahp the insanity

 

[unvote]

 

[v] Sili [/v]

 

Says she's going to vote him just to get it to stop.

 

thumbsup.gif

 

Sili, you're kind of responding like a pooperface instead of a townie. Rather than insulting people, why not play the game?

 

Stands out a bit considering it's likely he was being post controlled, not just his votes.

 

Nice to see that the pace of your vote change slowed. Faked after all?

 

Do you notice he's not unvoting?

 

Well, if it's required to change a vote, wouldn't that make all of what he's doing pointless?

 

 

Despothera is afraid to lynch me because it will prove he is scum.

 

saying I am jester is an terrible excuse. I hinted about my power many times.

 

nobody has said I am lying and there has to be tracker because of the ninja.

 

you are busted.

What ninja?

 

Hm.  I think it might've been a slip. GURRRRRRL

 

 

Vote: Sili

 

Revotes after the 'slip'

 

Mmmmm, I don't really buy it

 

A townie would've done what Yates said and bailed a while back

 

Yes, but mindlessly spamming  over and over and over could also be construed as such

 

So sili can bust in and be snarky, but not actually discuss it like a townie would?

 

Honestly? I don't think he's being VC at all.  None of the people playing this game are that big of a pooperface.

 

All examples of how Hallia just continued to discredit Sili without ever actually trying to figure out if something was fishy or not. I think her stance was very easy to make, especially so since I think it's likely she knew what was happening the entire time and was therefore ready to 'pounce' on things like his ninja comment, and how he wasn't unvoting, etc.

[Andrej]

So he was just....derping?

 

This is also bad after looking back at how she handled him during the day.

 

After calling him a faker/liar for the entire phase, why would you assume he was trolling over ACTUALLY being controlled?

[Tommyrod]

The first two pages of her ISO in this game look nearly identical to her gameplay as scum in FF: the fluff and feel-good off topic posting and avoidance of gameplay topics unless prompted. Those posts you just quoted do read a bit desperate.

[Hallia]

I thought Yates pretty much proved it couldn't be real, due to the timestamping.  It made sense to me.

[Tommyrod]

I thought Yates pretty much proved it couldn't be real, due to the timestamping.  It made sense to me.

Have you ever seen a post-faking role? Salami made it sound like a not rare thing on DM.

[Hallia]

It's rare.  I don't recall ever seeing a post-faking.  I've seen VC maybe once?  But it wasn't like that.  They changed their vote like...one time, and put a little hint in the first words of their posts etc to show VC

[Tommyrod]

It's rare.  I don't recall ever seeing a post-faking.  I've seen VC maybe once?  But it wasn't like that.  They changed their vote like...one time, and put a little hint in the first words of their posts etc to show VC

Once Salami brought it up did you not think maybe that's what's going on? Your responses of "I don't believe he's being controlled" and "was he derping?" are what stand out the most to me.

[Andrej]

If that's indeed what happened that's the 2nd time I've seen it.

 

The other time was something Yates was talking about with me irt TG/Wombat in Darthe's last BT game. The 'Basterd' one that I thought was going to be themed around Inglorious Basterds but instead turned out to be AIDS where I was rolled as Michael Jackson and a Town Rolestopper lol

 

I don't even.

 

Salami and Despot were in that game too, and I guess Csarmi has experience being one from a different game.

[Tommyrod]

That's... well, we can talk about it after the game, but I'd never include a role like that as a mod.

Did Des bring up the possibility Sili was being controlled? I only noticed Salami.

[Andrej]

I think the frequency made it hard to believe it was coming from someone else. I really don't know and I just hope it wasn't Sili doing it for ~whatever.

 

Problem is that it made him an easy target. My issue was that Hallia made the hard stance without really considering it could be something else. She just assumed he was lying/faking without ever considering the motivation or reason behind it - even if it would have been purely speculation.

[Tommyrod]

I'll carry on, trying to find scum, don't you worry.

 

I stuck to him because I thought he was scum.  I was wrong?

 

I don't get frustrated because it is a game.

 

I always make that point no matter what game I'm in.

 

Keep going down the tunnel if you like though

 

Pretty bad, Hallia

[Nynaeve]

I think Des was more into theorizing about the possibility of a Jester, Tom.

[Alanna]

The frequency of the posting was what made me wonder if it could be real. The possibility of the role itself I never doubted. I can't really recall a specific instance when I've seen a post-control role, but definitely roles like that have been used on DM before. Roles where someone could give another a post restriction used to be pretty popular at one time. I never liked them because it was usually pretty obvious when someone had a PR, so it was usually more of an annoyance than any real help to the scum team, I feel like.

[Alanna]

I think the frequency made it hard to believe it was coming from someone else. I really don't know and I just hope it wasn't Sili doing it for ~whatever.

 

Problem is that it made him an easy target. My issue was that Hallia made the hard stance without really considering it could be something else. She just assumed he was lying/faking without ever considering the motivation or reason behind it - even if it would have been purely speculation.

 

I think something like what csarmi described could have been possible, using the QT. It's possible the post-controller fed him the posts where he actually said stuff, and that he was just ordered in-between those times to do the vote spamming, but without giving him specific targets. Does that make sense? Like maybe the post-controller could say something like "Now make 10 posts with 30 votes" or something like that.

 

[Andrej]

I guess Alanna, no way to tell imo and I doubt we'll find out the real circumstances until post game.

 

I don't think lynching him was all bad though as it was pretty much inevitable and had to happen imo. I think the way people handled it is informative. (Hallia/Leelou)

[Tommyrod]

If it was a post controller type of role, then people who may have had TMI type responses to what was going on:
 

[v]Sili Quirrels[/v]
  
Pretty sure he's just lolcatting at this point.  Look at a few of his posts after my claim.
  

Then I'll vote for Thane, and I may switch to Halia if there's a bigger wagon on her.

 
The "then I'll vote for Thane" was after he asked AJ about strongman kills.  I don't have a problem with anybody having reasonable doubt about my claim - that's actually a towntelling response.  But this post makes it seem like he didn't really want to go in Thane's direction.  The switching to Hallia comment is just disgusting.
 

i would like thane to speak up in his defense before he's lynched, just in case.

 This was about 6 hours to deadline.  I think Thane had said plenty by that point, so this looks more like "I need something to make myself look better postflip" than "This is probably going to end badly, let's do <alternative>".
 

If only clov hadn't hard claimed doc, then we could all be laying back enjoying the sunset.

 
Yeah, I really ruined the day by NOT letting myself get mislynched as the town doctor.  Why do you sound so bothered by that?

 

 
 

Jester is plausible, but I really question his method for going about it.  Most people were reading him as far more likely to be derpnoobtown D1 than scum.  If he was TRYING to get lynched, I think he could have steered it in that direction.

 

 

Something like
 
Leelou
Hallia
 
Verb is another potential
 
Sili maybe just because I have no idea how to feel about him now - I'm afraid he could be telling the truth though and is gonna get speed lynched over it. Or maybe he isn't telling the truth but is still a villager and gets lynched over it. Like I really don't even know at this point
 
I feel like Csarmi is starting to fade a bit, which I don't like. He's been kinda pandering around lately instead of getting solvy with it and I don't like that because he can coast pretty well as a wolf. His post count is also heavily inflated due to his spam and multi-posts
 
Yates/Tom has potential for a wolf imo

 
If he's telling the truth, Des has one phase to live.

 

 

 

 

Also - Hi Clov.

 

Drop some truth ITT

 

Eh, I don't have too much truth to drop.  Today is very likely going to come down to Despot/Sili.  I've made my stance on Sili clear, and I still think Des is likely town, even if I don't understand where he's coming from on some things.  

 

I think Hallia made a good catch IRT to Sili saying there's a ninja.  I'm not sure scum!Hallia catches/pushes that, since she would know whether or not there is one, so I think that's good for her.  She also pointed out that Sili wasn't unvoting during his spam sessions.  

 

Still think Tom could be scum, especially if Sili is.  I spent all of D1 pointing out how the things Sili wasn't doing didn't make any sense from a town POV and Tom wrote him off every time as "he's a wolfy villager".  He immediately lynched Sili after the ninja comment but didn't address whether he thought Sili would make that claim as scum.

 

 

In addition to Hallia, Clov stands out as being someone who wants to steer the conversation back to Sili/Des and following the internal narrative of believing what's going on; and also gives Hallia a pat on the back.

 

Another thing to look at later when we have more info.

[Yates]

Yeah. We'll talk post game. That role is Aids and Basterd.