[BASIC] Discworld Mafia - MAFIA win

WolfbrotherKronos · October 11, 2014

Yates...who do you think is scum?
Like I said earlier, I'm inclined to look at the people off the wagon. I'm removing Dice from that list, obviously. I'm also adding Verbal to the list since his vote technically didn't mean anything. I haven't actually gotten to dig in yet but my focus is on you, Hally, Nolder, and Verb.

Part of the reason I responded to Mish's summary is because I wanted to see her response to my defense. Have you read her summary and my clarification post? What do you think of that?

Mish and I are on the same page - your clarifications make sense.

Krakalakachkn · October 11, 2014

Mish, I liked that ISO you did. Succinct and pointed.

I want to see what Verb says when he shows up, but your case for Hallia is convincing. Especially cause it seemed like at the time LouNy released their dual reads it seemed like Nolder and one or two other people (Cory?) had started putting pressure on Hallia and LouNy might have thought it best to hop on that train and bus a bit. Especially considering how, when asked who she would shoot, she said Krak and then when I said "I assume NOlder would be #2," Lee said Hallia was tied with Nol for that spot and I thought it was weird how fast Hallia skyrocketed up to Nolder's level with little pushing or prodding from either Nyn or Lee beforehand.

Yates · October 11, 2014

Mish and I are on the same page - your clarifications make sense.

The sneaky part of that line of questioning is that it wasn't really just for you. Nolder claimed to be in agreement with "pretty much everything" Mish said. Being that he was involved in some of the stuff Mish had missed, I was hoping to see a clarification from him on the parts he didn't agree with. Specifically I'd like to know why he seemingly didn't notice that obvious problem with the post.

Yates · October 11, 2014

I'm just so terrible at reading Hally. I really think she's Town this game, though. The post of early reads seemed legit in ISO. Had Town consensus already formed before that post?

Nolder · October 11, 2014

I know tha Nolder asked me a question that I tried to answer yesterday but now I can´t find it.

It wasn't terribly important. I was just trying to get the perspective of someone I'm sure is town on the issue.

Yates...who do you think is scum?
Like I said earlier, I'm inclined to look at the people off the wagon. I'm removing Dice from that list, obviously. I'm also adding Verbal to the list since his vote technically didn't mean anything. I haven't actually gotten to dig in yet but my focus is on you, Hally, Nolder, and Verb.

Part of the reason I responded to Mish's summary is because I wanted to see her response to my defense. Have you read her summary and my clarification post? What do you think of that?

What?

Mish and I are on the same page - your clarifications make sense.
The sneaky part of that line of questioning is that it wasn't really just for you. Nolder claimed to be in agreement with "pretty much everything" Mish said. Being that he was involved in some of the stuff Mish had missed, I was hoping to see a clarification from him on the parts he didn't agree with. Specifically I'd like to know why he seemingly didn't notice that obvious problem with the post.

Come again?

Nolder · October 11, 2014

I'm just so terrible at reading Hally. I really think she's Town this game, though. The post of early reads seemed legit in ISO. Had Town consensus already formed before that post?

I'm starting to think you're right. I think she had a rough start, hasn't really been into this game, and is just a frustrated floundering townie that's scumtelling.

michellem · October 11, 2014

Hallia's two nudgy posts at EOD that I quoted is typical scum Hallia. There's an underlying agenda there.

Yates · October 11, 2014

Yates...who do you think is scum?

Like I said earlier, I'm inclined to look at the people off the wagon. I'm removing Dice from that list, obviously. I'm also adding Verbal to the list since his vote technically didn't mean anything. I haven't actually gotten to dig in yet but my focus is on you, Hally, Nolder, and Verb.

Part of the reason I responded to Mish's summary is because I wanted to see her response to my defense. Have you read her summary and my clarification post? What do you think of that?

What?

What are you confused about, exactly?

[bI'm inclined to look at the people off the wagon[/b].

The sneaky part of that line of questioning is that it wasn't really just for you. Nolder claimed to be in agreement with "pretty much everything" Mish said. Being that he was involved in some of the stuff Mish had missed, I was hoping to see a clarification from him on the parts he didn't agree with. Specifically I'd like to know why he seemingly didn't notice that obvious problem with the post.

Come again?

I agree with pretty much all of that.

I'm assuming this was in response to Hally's summary in the posts directly above yours?

Yates · October 11, 2014

Formatting fix...

Yates...who do you think is scum?
Like I said earlier, I'm inclined to look at the people off the wagon. I'm removing Dice from that list, obviously. I'm also adding Verbal to the list since his vote technically didn't mean anything. I haven't actually gotten to dig in yet but my focus is on you, Hally, Nolder, and Verb.

Part of the reason I responded to Mish's summary is because I wanted to see her response to my defense. Have you read her summary and my clarification post? What do you think of that?

What?

What are you confused about, exactly?

I'm inclined to look at the people off the wagon.

The sneaky part of that line of questioning is that it wasn't really just for you. Nolder claimed to be in agreement with "pretty much everything" Mish said. Being that he was involved in some of the stuff Mish had missed, I was hoping to see a clarification from him on the parts he didn't agree with. Specifically I'd like to know why he seemingly didn't notice that obvious problem with the post.
Come again?

I agree with pretty much all of that.

I'm assuming this was in response to Hally's summary in the posts directly above yours?

Yates · October 11, 2014

Holy smokes and I meant MISH's summary.

Nolder · October 11, 2014

1. Why are you focusing on Mish/Kronos?

2. What obvious problems?

Yates · October 11, 2014

1. Why are you focusing on Mish/Kronos?

Because they were off the wagon. The only reason I'm not focusing on Dice is because he's a blue read. Wolfish is not. Call it due diligence, I guess.

2. What obvious problems?

Did you read my post 914?

The two things pertinent to you [ie. things I think you would have noticed] are:

1. Did you agree with Mish that I had ignored LouNy's slot?

and

2. Did you agree with Mish's interpretation of my post 194? This is the one that I really thought you'd respond to since you appeared to understand the post at the time I made it and claimed to agree with it - at least in part - in your post 217, particularly point 1.

Nolder · October 11, 2014

1. Why are you focusing on Mish/Kronos?
Because they were off the wagon. The only reason I'm not focusing on Dice is because he's a blue read. Wolfish is not. Call it due diligence, I guess.

This is what bothers me.

2. What obvious problems?
Did you read my post 914?
The two things pertinent to you [ie. things I think you would have noticed] are:

1. Did you agree with Mish that I had ignored LouNy's slot?

and

2. Did you agree with Mish's interpretation of my post 194? This is the one that I really thought you'd respond to since you appeared to understand the post at the time I made it and claimed to agree with it - at least in part - in your post 217, particularly point 1.

1. After rereading the post I see the quote you're talking about that she commented on. I remember reading it and basically fact checking her and I noticed that you didn't mention a few people. I didn't see any reason to comment on this though.

2. I think you read deeper into my response than I intended. I wanted to air my concern but was trying to note that I didn't think it was a big deal yet. Basically it was a breadcrumb for way later in the game if Cory was still alive and I was dead. Cory himself said something similar before he died, saying if he was still alive on D5 then we could be worried but not yet and that's pretty much what I was getting at with that. Mish's concern is different from the concern with both had so I don't see how they're comparable or what you're trying to get at. Like she's saying the post is worrisome because you didn't mention someone, meanwhile we're talking about Cory possibly setting himself up as town leader while scum. Do I agree with her interpretation? No. Do I think that's important? No. Like I said before I noticed it while reading the post and didn't think it was worth commenting on. I don't understand how her concern being wrong or right or whatever is relevant to me and/or what I think about it because she's talking about something different than I was. Like, I dunno, are you trying to say that because I think her concern there isn't important that that somehow invalidates any other points made against you? If so then you're barking up the wrong tree.

Hallia · October 11, 2014

Doing my reread; I tried to wait for Dice, but it appears I've been stood up </3

Up through page 14

IMHO I think Krak did actually nail Verb out the gate.

I feel bad gunning for him in the first game he's played in months but that's how it goes I guess.

No reads on anyone else as of yet.

[v]Verbal[/v]

Still so so scummy.

Ok so of the votes we have:

Krak - Voted as a joke vote by Verb, then by Leelou, I guess also as a joke vote?

Nolder - Voted by Krak and Yates for his verbal vote

Verbal - Voted by Nolder because ???

Cory - Voted by Tina for not answering Misheru's question (but not by Misheru who kept pushing him to answer)

Leelou - Voted by cory because... he's waxing poetic? I dunno.

Of above, I think Leelou's fast bandwagon onto Krak could be an early attempt to try and get a train going before there is any real information available, since at that point basically all posts were spam posts.

[v]Leelou/Nyn[/v]

With the Leelou/Nyn flip, I like Barm. He wasn't lockclear for me previously, but he's in my town pile now.

Nyn - are you reading anyone as town?

I'm not proficient enough to have reads of people after 15-20 posts. I do better after players accumulate enough posts that I can ISO and analyze. Right now all I can do is pick out what sort of sticks out to me. Which I pointed out in my previous post

Overall, Hallia and Nolder basically need to post more. I don't recall playing with Barm ever (or if I did, I don't remember) so I don't really have any experience in reading him. Mish and Kronos kinda give me a good vibe. Tina is being inquisitve which is a good sign. You're being more active than usual which is refreshing. And Cory is being unusually quiet. But he hasn't played in a while so maybe he's trying a new shtick.

dice saying the forbidden number was funny, but hardly indicative of much.

The rest I don't feel much about one way or the other. Need to see more.

I linked this quote because I don't read Nyn very well at all, and with this post from her, is she more likely to talk about her partner, or leave them out?

Wolves in:

3. Barm

4. Leelou/Nyn

5. Verb

7. Yates

9. Nolder

11. Hallia

imo

Find a villager in there and you'll be set

I think between Yates/Nol we're solved. If lynching me before the two of them makes everyone happier, do it, but don't forget these two.

Two things.

1. I don't really like Cory setting up as town leader but it's usually inevitable that someone does. I feel like there's always one person being sensible while everyone else derps around so they're forced to try to lead the herd whether they want to or not. I'm going to cautiously accept it for now.
2. Hallia you're losing it. Need a post ASAP and not just a short oh sorry vote blahblah because I agree with blah. Give thoughtful detailed post that shows you're following along and have a real assessment of the game please.

Early on trying to cast aspertions on Cory. And Cory was right.

Nyn is >> rand Mafia.

So you're not gonna provide those links?

Hey Nyn, have we ever been in a game together where you were scum? Since you are asking for a links, a link would be a mitzvah. Danke. And - uh - L'chaim. [Did I do that right?]

This was basically the first time Yates/Nyn interacted, after many pages. It kinda pinged to me.

I feel really good about my villagers at this point and really just need one more "solid villager" before I have a game-winning POE

F*** IT WE'LL DO IT LIVE:

Dice

Mish/WBK
Tina

Krak

Yates

Barm

Verbal

Hallia

Nolder

LouNy

I trust Cory's instincts. I would 10/10 lynch Nol first, based on my read on him, and my trust in Cory.

Our reads so far (in no particular order).

Town Leans:
Tina
Verbal
Wolfish
Cory

Null:
Dice
Yates
Barm

Scum leans:
Hallia
Krak
Nolder

Posted again, because I'm not sure if Nyn is the type to put her partner as scum or town. If someone knows her better, then I hope this helps.

Krakalakachkn · October 11, 2014

Sexy LouNy (5): Barm, Tina, Krak, Cory, Verb

That is the final lynch D1. I've been thinking about this, and did some re-reading. In my opinion, with a 2-man scum team, they are almost FORCED to bus and not be seen on another train. We're looking in the wrong direction, imo.

If I was scum here, I would absolutely be on this train. I would expect scum to be on each other's train. I know Cory was thinking otherwise - but I think he is wrong on that. I know how Leelou plays - I think she's 100% be on the other scum's train to throw off the scent of any "wagonomics" being done. Therefore, I'm fairly certain the other scum is on this train.

Via my own personal POE, I remove myself, the dead townie in Cory, and one of my blue reads in Barm. That leaves Tina & Krak.

LouNy started the train on Krak - there was nothing with Tina. No way will scum go for total distancing here by ignoring.

Krak should be the lynch today.

[v]Krak[/v]

Hallia · October 11, 2014

HIT HIM WITH THE SHOEEEEE

Krakalakachkn · October 11, 2014

LouNy's two individual reads lists, for reference:

Nyn: please don't think I'm railroading you

I voted you because your real-time presence throughout the game has been low which is something I consider a ~decently strong wolftell for you

You're also deflecting in response rather than becoming abrasive and defensive, something else I have as a wolftell

You haven't done all that much that makes me think you are a villager

Share some of your hydra thoughts in here where we should be seeing them. Let me actually see your frustration if you are hiding it.

You can't blame me for ~misreading you if your take on the game is being hidden in a QT where I can't see it and it's wholly possible you could be frustrated in your QT and still be Mafia.

FTR I would rather see a list from each hydra than one list from both hydra. It allows town an insight into the hydramind as it informs gameplay and POV

As you wish.

Town leans
Tina - inquisitive, seems like she is on her town game.
Verbal - his posting style and what he's questioning has me leaning town on him.
Wolfish - Mish has her claws out and Kronos hasn't gone and completely turtled.

Null leans
Barm - Been debating null/town with Barm, but I'd like to see more from him before finding him a spot by the fire.
Cory - started out differently than I'm used to, almost tipping the scales in town.
Dice - moving more towards town with his play, but he doesn't get a free pass for mentioning 9-1.
Yates - need to see more from Yates. Need some stances.

Scum leans
Nolder - started off with a weird vote, meh reasoning to explain it, followed up by some tunneling.
Hallia - not being spunky townie Hallia.
Krak - my post earlier covers my stance on Krak.

My leans, before Lee and I did the combined list.

Town Leans

Tina - Proactive, analytical, motivated. Most of her posts make sense to me. I'm not seeing the scummy laid back passive Tina here. So I'm getting a generally good feeling from her.

Wolfish - I like Kronos' posts and I think the way he carries himself says it all. He doesn't have much of a wolf range. Mish is being fierce and standing her ground. Both of them are giving me a townie vibe.

Cory - I raised my eyebrow a bit at the quiet Cory when the game started, but after observing he slid right into what I consider his townie play. Not ready to lockclear him yet, but he can be green for now.

Null Leans

Dice - Kinda unsure. He's usually a very scummy townie or a very scummy scummy. Right now he's kinda null to me.

Yates - Kinda bothered me when he went a couple of times all 'I can't believe you're reading me as null' both at us and someone else. And there was the little tif between him and Cory which I'm attributing to lingering issues from a different game. I kinda got a v/v feel from the exchange. But I need to see more before I'm comfortable enough to bump him to my town leans.

Barm - Never played with him before. He seems semi involved with the game but he hasn't really said anything to note, for better or worse. Would like to see more.

Verbal - I just can't tell lol But he hasn't done anything pingy that I've seen so there's that.

Scum leans

Nolder - For reasons stated in quite a few of my previous posts. He's not making sense to me at all.

Krak - I don't think I've ever seen Krak play this way. While I appreciate him posting more, I'm not a fan of the nature of his posts. There's a lot of directing other people and asking questions, while not sharing his thoughts. And generally trying to push weak FoSes.

Hallia - Mostly gutread. I get that she has RL issues, but even when she caught up it felt kinda without. I'm also not a fan of her bringing up the Wednsday joke as she was casting a vote on Nol. Kinda wondering if she was bussing.

Their cohesive front reads:

Our reads so far (in no particular order).

Town Leans:
Tina
Verbal
Wolfish
Cory

Null:
Dice
Yates
Barm

Scum leans:
Hallia
Krak
Nolder

Krakalakachkn · October 11, 2014

Misheros what do you think?

Those are pretty weak reads on Hally.

michellem · October 11, 2014

My reads, or LN's read? I think I said in my big post; the reason for Hallia to be included in their scum-lists seems very weak, especially in Nyn's list, where she makes a better case for Yates being scum than Hallia IMO. So I think it's to try to hide a partner.

Their town leans are kinda automatic. There was absolutely nothing to throw at Tina, Cory, Verb or myself at the time. It interests me that they keep trying to make Dice be in the middle, considering everyone else saw him as pretty clearcut town at the moment. Not because I think it says anything at all about Dice; just shows they were trying to keep that option to pursue later. Barm was a safe null-spot since none here has played with him for many, many years. Krak and Nolder were kinda automatic for their scum slot seeing as they'd butted heads several times.

All in all, I reach the same conclusion that the "outsiders" are Yates and Hallia, and looking at the entire game.

Why are you still voting Verb, Krak? I don't see why you'd pursue that, so explain it to me please :)

Krakalakachkn · October 11, 2014

Last time I saw Verb as scum he pulled the whole "lynch me tomorrow" angle and led a successful lynch on me the next day, completely ignoring his claim to self-vote and won the game for scum. It would be easy enough to do it this time with little suspicion since there was a decent amount of pressure on me yesterday.

Krakalakachkn · October 11, 2014

He raised me hackles.

Krakalakachkn · October 11, 2014

Also, I don't think there's anything else super pressing atm to make me consider moving my vote.

Krakalakachkn · October 11, 2014

Current VC:

Yates (1): Tina

Hallia (1): Wolfish

Verb (1): Krak

Not Voting (6): Dice, Barm, Verb, Nolder, Krak, Hallia

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch

Nolder · October 11, 2014

Everytime I think I have it figured out one or the other says something that really bugs me.

I really can't tell who the mafia is between Hallia and Yates right now.

I am for lynching either one at this point.

It's up to you guys to choose which one and I'll follow.

michellem · October 11, 2014

So Krak, you're gonna ignore the whole rest of the game for one post? Really?

[BASIC] Discworld Mafia - MAFIA win

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