[Basic]TRON Mafia Game-Day 4

[RandA lThor]

Nyn is at L-1.

 

SLOW

 

DOWN

1. Darthe - responded

2. Drunk Tank

3. BFArmi(BFG and Csarmi) - responded

4. Vos, Lora Baines, Vanilla Town-Killed Night 1

5. NotBob - responded

6. Tommy

7. RandA lthor - responded

8. Kronos Clov - responded

9. Nynlia - responded

10. Mynd - responded

11. Lenlo, Alan Bradley, Vanilla Town-Lynched Day 1

12.TG - responded

 

There are only 2 people that haven't responded, Drunk Tank and Tommy.  I doubt that Tommy is the cop with the attention grabbing way he has played, and even at L-1, there are only two people left to hammer, since everyone else has already been confronted with Darthe's claim and had a chance to vote.  The probability of one of the 2 people coming in and hammering and the second one being the cop cc is negligible.  But I'll play along.  Until one of them pokes their head in, I'll [unvote]

[Tyler Glembo]

 

This is part 2 of that

 

 

 

 

 

TG has waded in the spam with us for a lot longer in other games.  Why the sudden haste? Why the flip-floppy behavior? Guilty conscience?  And how is he really pushing any gameplay at this point?  Voting an inactive?  Kissing everyone's arses?

 

 

 

Why so anxious for a lynch, TG?

 

TG, you are rapidly switching between serious and goofy and I ding understand the transitions. What's up? You on crack?

 

Another game with 100 pages of D1 spam posts will be soul destroying for me, so I'd rather get this game kick started and at least push some gameplay. 

 

 

 

 

First of all, you were a fairly large part of that.  Secondly, this game had already started to become fairly interesting if I recall correctly.  Thirdly, it almost never showed signs of becoming nearly that big.  So agree with Mynd here.

 

Scum Playbook:  When called out for a guilty conscience, downplay its signifigence with a funny gif.  Make sure to choose one among the most popular, like an Archer or Anchor Man one.  I'm surprised this one doesn't play Danger Zone when you click on it. 

 

See below:

 

 

 

...and now the guilty conscience explanation. 

 

 

 

 

 

Once again, you were a part of that, and you weren't some leading force that was trying to take people away from the spam.  This is probably an attempt to make you look better than you actually are.

 

 

 

Responding to the blue about the joking.  Everything in moderation.  Some joking?  Okay.  Letting it take off to be 100+pages of almost no content.  Soul destroying.  So yes, I wanted to get the game moving to gamplay but that doesn't mean that I was opposed to all joking. 

 

 

 

TG gives Nyn the finger and calls her out for giving him a weak FOS.  For everyone's convienence, I colored and bolded the part where Nyn gives TGlems an FOS in her quoted quote. 

 

 

 

Not a fan of TG deciding that TD deserves some kind of free pass today. I don't care if someone is new. Not even sure why he brought it up.... unless he finds him suspicious? Because if he doesn't, then why even mention him?

 

For as long as I've played on DM new players are pushed D1, coached D1, engaged D1, but not lynched D1.  Your weak wanna-be FOS is a weak wanna-be FOS.

 

Did you see it?  No? EXACTLY!

 

 

Lol found this pretty funny and interesting.  This is probably one of the larger scumtells, being fairly defensive over almost nothing.

Nyn implied I was being "suspicious/scummy" without anything further.  I wasn't going to let it go unchallenged and have it potentially color other players thoughts so I responded.  And I called it a "wanna-be FOS" specifically for how she worded it as suspicious without actually pressing it.

 

"""QUOTED FROM RAND - MOD APPROVED EDIT - Nevermind, quotes are fixing themselves.  UGH""""

Yeah the way this was phrased was a little weird.  Again going back to the I'm more clear town than you guys, I should be making the reads kind of mentality.  Don't like it.  Coincidentally though, this makes me doubt a lot that you and Vos would be on a team together.

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""

I'm not more clear town than you guys ITT.  I'm more clear town than any of you to me.  Therefore, the only person I trust to push things is me.

[BFG]

So much for my train analysis idea

 

 

 

 

 

Well, I don't think there would be more than one cop in this game.  No one else has cc'd the cop claim.  We have a hidden doc.  If Nyn flips town, we know who scum is.

I do agree about slowing down though.   We can still discuss it without hammering, but there have been enough players tossing Nyn's name around in this game.

 

[unvote]

 

[v] Nyn [/v]

 

I don't even.

 

You beat me to this though

 

 

He's playing like he rolled jester or something.

 

 

I am not sure how that doesn't make sense.  I don't think we should hammer Nyn right away, but when an uncc'd cop in a basic game has a clear mafia read, where we likely have a doc somewhere, why wouldn't I vote Nyn?

 

You don't get to say the train should slow, then vote.

[Nynaeve]

I never know why Darthe does what he does and I totally don't get his general play in games. He never makes sense to me. I have no idea why he would out himself to lynch me specifically. Maybe he thought I was a PR, in which case it was a hit and miss on his part and all he's taking down with him is a vanilla. His dumbwitted move earns him that much.

[BFG]

TG, you broke DM

 

And I need to get something to eat

 

Back later

[Tyler Glembo]

 

And here is my response to your response to Mynd's case.

 

K this changes my view of what you said before.   This isn't necessarily scummy or town as much as stupid.  You should never ever make an exception in a mafia game to not lynch someone.  If someone got a day cop report on him, he slipped and said he was mafia, or he did some extremely scummy things right in a row, would you go "Oh he's new here, lets go easy".  This is mafia.  Voting someone on their first day here, especially when they've played elsewhere, is not personal, its part of the game.  You making a blatant exception goes against mafia 101, as town or scum.

 

 

 

I need to vehemently disagree with this.  We all know each other via meta to some degree and that can influence our ability to scumhunt each other.  A brand new player to DM is an unknown and will therefore by at a much higher risk of a mislynch than anyone else since new players a) have no meta upon which to judge b) don't know the culture and will make scummy sounding statements because of that and c) deserve a chance to adjust simply as a common courtesy.

 

Not lynching new players D1 is not just me being nice, it is also a chance to better scumhunt somebody I have no background information on.

 

 

I'd say you were higher than the average for number of joke posts and so on in this game.  That means that you can't suddenly change (especially after people have already started playing the game) and go, "STOP TOWN! Let me lead you to non spammy posts, because I want game play".  You're inflating the amount of things you've done for town, an action commonly done by scum.

 

10ish pages of joking around, me included in it, isn't bad.  At that point though I thought the game needed to be pushed into gameplay mode, so I did.  There is some continued jokes which is cool, because, as I said before, everything in moderation.  But, I don't think that I inflated it as "I'm doing this for town cuz I'm so town."  I stated it as a "I can only trust myself so I'm going to do it because I know I have no agenda besides catching scum."  I know you can read that differently from an outside perspective, but read it as though you were saying it yourself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mynd, your scum team is TG and Lenlo? I think TG has some scum equity, but I don't think your "omg they're colluding!" theory you start that case with is very likely.

 

Often people say "hah did you plan that in scum chat?!" and that's almost never the case. I mean do you seriously plan out conversations in scum chat? I don't.

 

TG wanting less spam isn't scummy. Him being spammy while also deriding people for not being serious kind of is, though.

 

I give your case a 4/10. Might be right but probably for the wrong reasons. A lot of what you found scummy is actually semantics.

 

Except for the "scum equity" this is spot on.

 

Lol two things happened here.

 

1. You tried to take a viewpoint of someone and take it out of context by omitting anything bad about yourself and only presenting the good parts.

 

2. You didn't realize that you just accepted the fact that its scummy for you to be spammy while deriding people, and also the fact that Tommy said you might be scum.

 

 

 

 

 

 I was pointing out that Tommy (even if he found me scummy (faking?) for other reasons) didn't like Mynd's case YET Mynd claimed Tommy backed him.  As for point#2, meh.  I didn't view it that way and I don't really remember going after anybody HAM for being spammy.

[Tyler Glembo]

TG, you broke DM

 

And I need to get something to eat

 

Back later

 

:sadface:

[Tyler Glembo]

I feel your pain TG.  Also if you do get time, respond to the consistency comment in blue, I thought that one was unusually odd.

 

I thought I did.  Tommy had town!read Vos the page earlier.  I posed my question in the negative to see if he was fabricating reads and scummy or actually reading and paying attention.  Even though my question was posed in the negative which gave him a chance to buddy me and switch he didn't.  Therefore, he was consistent and it read as a town!tell to me.

[Tyler Glembo]

@MOD

 

Mind if I try to edit that to unbreak DM?  We always hurt the ones we love.  Like how I SK'd Lenlo and just couldn't save him from dying.  *snickers

[BFG]

 

TG, you broke DM

 

And I need to get something to eat

 

Back later

 

:sadface:

 

I take it back, it was Rand

[Nynaeve]

Vote Nyn

 

 

I don't want the cop to CC and I don't see a way that I can prove that Darthe is talking out of his arse. Realistically, you guys aren't going to lynch an un-CCed cop in favor of a VT. So lets not waste our time with unneeded WIFOM. This is nothing but a distraction.

 

 

Good luck town! <3

[Clovdyx]

Think its safe to say that we both find the timing of Darthes claim scummy, and Nyn disappearing equally scummy.

 

 

Think its safe to say that we both find the timing of Darthes claim scummy, and Nyn disappearing equally scummy.

 

I agree that the timing of Darthe's claim was meh.  But let's think about it.  Right now we are, presumably, 3/10.  Let's say Darthe is lying.  We go to 3/8.  Then we get down to 2/6.  We can vote nolynch and go 2/5.  At that point it is lylo but with a helluva lot more info than we have now.

 

Let's say Darthe is being straight. Then we go 2/8 and are even further ahead. 

 

Seriously though, Darthe had 2 votes on him.  Calling that a runaway train is exaggeration.

 

 

I'm not sure how else you guys think Darthe could have played it.  I suppose he could have waited until a few hours from deadline and hope to get an information spew from Nyn/Hallia during the day, but he got a result...he put it out there. 

 

Given the numbers, I don't see how it would be beneficial to scum to play it this way.  If we were at LYLO, sure.  But we're probably not there yet so it seems early for a desperation play.

Clov, i don't know what to tell you bro.  The OMGUS is actually on TG.  He is the one that came out the gate voting me because I was wrong about Lenlo and Vos.  I mean seriously, you don't find his post insane?

 

I'm still trying to figure out if you really believe these things you just posted or if you are reaction testing.  If you were on the scum team with TG, I can't believe you would be this obvious about it. 

 

First, did you actually read my case on TG?  My case on TG didn't hinge on Lenlo, it was the other way around.  My case on TG was on TG.  The Lenlo connection was more about Lenlo.  I don't get why you would reverse that.  TG is the one overreacting.  I guess I assumed everyone would see this for what it is. 

 

Then, I read the latter part of your argument.  You are referring to Mrs. Clov.   So you are either letting your emotions twist your view of what is actually being said in the game, or you are scum with TG.  Otherwise, I don't really get it. 

 

I don't how you say he's the one with the OMGUS reaction.  He spent most of yesterday arguing with you, and he initiated the pressure today.  By comparison, you literally stated you had other people you wanted to pursue more than him but voted him anyways.  How do you even claim that's not a kneejerk reaction to him coming at you?

 

IRT him coming at you for being wrong, I addressed that.  I specifically asked how he came to the conclusion you being wrong on two of your reads, and potentially a third, indicated you were more likely to be scum.

 

Bold - Ehhh, I don't know.  I'll give you that you put more individual effort into TG than Lenlo, but I think you're lying if you try to say that there wasn't a mutual link between the two.  Look at the sentence in orange.

 

 

 

 

Then this....which gets NO explanation.

Lenlo, I need your help.

Now, less than 15 minutes later, Lenlo replies.  Its almost as if he knew Lenlo was online.  Kinda like they were working together in some other form of communication....like say a Mafia QT perhaps?  What did TG need help with?  A mildly funny gif....one that I believe was hastily used in a desperate attempt to explain why he really needed Lenlo.....to read the mafia QT.

 

 

TG has waded in the spam with us for a lot longer in other games.  Why the sudden haste? Why the flip-floppy behavior? Guilty conscience?  And how is he really pushing any gameplay at this point?  Voting an inactive?  Kissing everyone's arses?

 

 

 

Why so anxious for a lynch, TG?

 

TG, you are rapidly switching between serious and goofy and I ding understand the transitions. What's up? You on crack?

 

Another game with 100 pages of D1 spam posts will be soul destroying for me, so I'd rather get this game kick started and at least push some gameplay. 

 

 

 

 

Scum Playbook:  When called out for a guilty conscience, downplay its signifigence with a funny gif.  Make sure to choose one among the most popular, like an Archer or Anchor Man one.  I'm surprised this one doesn't play Danger Zone when you click on it. 

 

See below:

 

 

 

...and now the guilty conscience explanation. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

TG gives Nyn the finger and calls her out for giving him a weak FOS.  For everyone's convienence, I colored and bolded the part where Nyn gives TGlems an FOS in her quoted quote. 

 

 

 

Not a fan of TG deciding that TD deserves some kind of free pass today. I don't care if someone is new. Not even sure why he brought it up.... unless he finds him suspicious? Because if he doesn't, then why even mention him?

 

For as long as I've played on DM new players are pushed D1, coached D1, engaged D1, but not lynched D1.  Your weak wanna-be FOS is a weak wanna-be FOS.

 

Did you see it?  No? EXACTLY!

 

 

 

And now, a warning to all of us lowly hethens who DARE consider TGlems as scum because they might have an agenda.  Vos is naturally #CHAINLOCKTOWNwithPADLOCK while we should be suspicious of players other than TG if we wanna be decent townies.  Read the following and try not to facepalm too much.

 

 

 

For as long as I've played on DM I've never heard this so called rule. 

 

I've seen it mentioned multiple times as an unwritten type of thing.  I'm sure somebody else can attest.

 

Gonna start this all with a contradiction: I agree - but I still think your eagerness is pinging. Doesn't really make sense, but eh, thats what I feel.

 

Vos is #LOCKTOWN.  I'm pushing it because I know I'm town and I don't trust anyone else to push it.  They might have an agenda.  Any decent townie should be suspicious of another player getting out in front while at the same time understanding the want to push scumhunting.

 

Well at least I can begin the exception to the rule.  A vote on someone because of one scummy post is a scummy vote, especially when you specifically said earlier that you've barely played with me and need to get to know my playstyle, is a scummy vote.  Largest scum read is now Vos.

 

Rand, what would your reaction have been if Vos found you to be incredibly scummy but didn't vote you?  I find your defense to be a narrative in which Vos can't win nomatter what he does.

 

But that wasn't my only point.  My main point which no one seems to be responding to here is that you voted me based off one post.  The things I've said after that are not related to your vote in the first place.  The fact that you voted me based off one post that you thought was scummy but was obviously meant to be a joke is in itself scummy.

 

And was my reaction to one vote large? Yes, but thats because I'm not only defending myself, but I'm also fosing Vos at the same time.  Thats why it looks bigger than it actually is.

 

[DELETED POSTS]

 

FOSes or putting someone on a scum list are characteristic of a scummy post.  But posting that you're going to sit in a corner with a gif shouldn't warrant a vote.  Thats the difference between mafia-like posts, which can vary on perspective, and posts that are intended to change game flow.

 

And what you just said is directly related to meta.  There are some playstyles that some people find scummy when they play with them.  I for example found Mynd's beat the grass technique scummy the first time I played him.  To me, it was him, acting like mafia.  But that's just how he played.  That has so much to do with meta.

 

I disagree completely on what you refer to as a "scummy post."  And the argument you are applying about yourself applies to Vos also.  Maybe it is Vos' playstyle to always vote "popcorn" posts nomatter what.  Either way, like I said above, it reads as narrative.

 

 

 

TG earlier states that he isn't going to vote Drunk Tank because he's new to DM.  Yet he fires off at Rand for calling out Vos for voting him and not knowing his game play.  Don't forget, he just finished warning us all that if we want to be decent townies, we need to be suspicious.

Then a defense of Vos which doesn't even begin to consider that Vos is Scummy McVosScum. 

 

Yeah, TG......I have an agenda in this game.  It's getting rid of all the scum. 

 

I figure I'd start with you.

 

 

 

That's suggesting the two of them were able to communicate with each other outside the thread.  I guess it's possible that mafia!TG saw Lenlo online at the bottom of the main page, but in that case, why bring it up at all?  It's just as likely that a townie used it. 

 

That leaves the rest of your case being:

-his vote on somebody with no posts - which he said he read and came to the conclusion Kronos was scum.  That's completely null to me.

-him refusing to push Drunk Tank D1 as a courtesy.  I don't like this unwritten rule, but I don't see a scum motivation there.  Scum needs mislynches to win, and nobody knows what kind of player DT is.  That's a prime mislynch candidate for D1, so why would mafia take him off the table?

-his reaction to your case.  I think he's done a sufficient job in refuting your case, and when you make overly sarcastic statements to make his statements seem more irrational than they appear to be (such as the large blue one), it makes me think your original argument doesn't have much ground to stand on.

[csarmi]

@Rand: if you trade lynches and mislynches 1 to 1, town loses.

[Clovdyx]

TG, y u no form rite?

[Tyler Glembo]

TG, y u no form rite?

 

Clov, why you change your avatar to the card you give me?

[鲍勃不是我的名字]

 

Vote Darthe

 

Just a hunch.

 

Could also vote Salami or Nyn.

 

I still have no idea why people didn't vote you yesterday.  What happened to your read on Tom?  Yesterday you were absolutely convinced there was no way he was town,and now you're not even interested in looking at him? 

 

Also, FTR...loving the TG and Mynd fisticuffs...have no idea on any alignment but think TG is winning the debate.

 

Well, I agree on your conclusion.  The fact that you're not drawing any alignment from that makes me think you don't care.

 

 

My read on Tom is the same.  I'm interested in hunting scum.  The town did not support me yesterday and thought it was best to hunt elsewhere today.  Would you prefer I just avoid the game altogether and stay on Tom?  Not really my style to play like that.

 

I care.  Hoping the townie has the better argument cause we need to resolve that conflict after we lynch Nyn.

[Tyler Glembo]

Vote Nyn

 

 

I don't want the cop to CC and I don't see a way that I can prove that Darthe is talking out of his arse. Realistically, you guys aren't going to lynch an un-CCed cop in favor of a VT. So lets not waste our time with unneeded WIFOM. This is nothing but a distraction.

 

 

Good luck town! <3

 

HA!  I've done this before as scum.  Pretend not to realize it is L-2 and fake hammer myself.  Clever Nyn is clever.

[BFG]

@Clov - town would gain more info if Darthe built a case on Nyn before his claim. I've seen mafia do it before lylo before, it almost got me lynched in the House game, and mafia went on to win anyway. There's also a decent chance of mafia having RB instead of GF.

 

Given Nyn's read list I think I believe Darthe right now, but my preference would still be to wait until everyone's checked in.

 

 

Stances everybody. Nyn, full reads please. And stop voting. This is hybrid hammer and we got time.

 

@Nyb - why you think a 1-1 trade good for town here?

 

It's a good trade because once you see my flip, you got Darthe in the bag, which means one scum less to worry about.

 

 

The current read list that Halli and I were discussing in the hydra qt:

 

1. Darthe - scum lean

2. Drunk Tank - Scum lean

3. BFArmi(BFG and Csarmi) - null

5. NotBob - Town lean

6. Tommy - Town lean

7. RandA lthor - Town lean

8. Clov - Scum lean

10. Mynd - null

12.TG - Scum lean

 

(Nyn I hate you for this formatting right now)

[csarmi]

She didn't unvote either.

[BFG]

 

Vote Nyn

 

 

I don't want the cop to CC and I don't see a way that I can prove that Darthe is talking out of his arse. Realistically, you guys aren't going to lynch an un-CCed cop in favor of a VT. So lets not waste our time with unneeded WIFOM. This is nothing but a distraction.

 

 

Good luck town! <3

 

HA!  I've done this before as scum.  Pretend not to realize it is L-2 and fake hammer myself.  Clever Nyn is clever.

 

No unvote

[BFG]

Ninjaed by my hydra

[Nynaeve]

She didn't unvote either.

 

Unvote

 

Vote Nyn

[Tyler Glembo]

She didn't unvote either.

 

No unvote

 

I totally missed that part.  The ol' double whammy.

[BFG]

Nyn why is Darthe a mafia lean?

[Nynaeve]

Because he's a mafia lean?