[Basic]TRON Mafia Game-Day 4

Tyler Glembo · July 25, 2014

Well, I don't think there would be more than one cop in this game. No one else has cc'd the cop claim. We have a hidden doc. If Nyn flips town, we know who scum is.

I do agree about slowing down though. We can still discuss it without hammering, but there have been enough players tossing Nyn's name around in this game.

[unvote]

[v] Nyn [/v]

I don't even.

You beat me to this though

He's playing like he rolled jester or something.

Myndrunner · July 25, 2014

Clov, i don't know what to tell you bro. The OMGUS is actually on TG. He is the one that came out the gate voting me because I was wrong about Lenlo and Vos. I mean seriously, you don't find his post insane?

I'm still trying to figure out if you really believe these things you just posted or if you are reaction testing. If you were on the scum team with TG, I can't believe you would be this obvious about it.

First, did you actually read my case on TG? My case on TG didn't hinge on Lenlo, it was the other way around. My case on TG was on TG. The Lenlo connection was more about Lenlo. I don't get why you would reverse that. TG is the one overreacting. I guess I assumed everyone would see this for what it is.

Then, I read the latter part of your argument. You are referring to Mrs. Clov. So you are either letting your emotions twist your view of what is actually being said in the game, or you are scum with TG. Otherwise, I don't really get it.

[v]Mynd[/v]

I've moved from you just trolling me to you being scum. Your reads so far in regards to Lenlo and Vos have been either wrong or scum motivated. Your trolling of me is off the charts and I know I'm town. So you're 0/3 on reads so far which makes you >rand to be scum.

Other scum candidates are Rand based of Vos death and both Tommy and DT from yesterday.

This is adorable.

TG stays clear of me for the latter half of the game and then suddenly, out the gate, comes at me. He doesn't realize that he just outed himself as mafia. He's desperately trying to use Lenlo and Vos flipping town as a reason for everyone to totally ignore him. I guess this is what a scum TG looks like.

If I was mafia, I wouldn't kill Vos if I had built a good scum case against him. I'm not the only one that felt this way about Vos either.

As far as Lenlo, I also wasn't the only one who felt he was scum, and I certainly wasn't the one who started the lynch. I voted him in the end because 1) he was my #2 scumread and 2) we couldn't let the vote go random.

I'm sure by now you wish you could edit or delete that post. You see, it reads to me as someone who doesn't want anyone else listening to what I have to say.

Funny thing...I was more interested in a couple other players today than you.

[v] TG [/v]

Bold + OMGUS vote = scumclaim.

First of all, your case on TG was largely due to his link with Lenlo. Lenlo flipping town kind of ruins that theory, doesn't it? So you had a weak case, it just lost one of the few valid concerns - and I use that term loosely - so now it's even weaker. I'll concede that having an incredibly weak argument for somebody isn't scummy. However, when you admit to having other suspects you preferred to go after and them and seemingly toss them aside to kneejerk the person going after you?

Also don't like "If I was mafia, I wouldn't do X" thing. I remember you doing literally the same thing in Buffy, when you killed somebody that was suspicious of you and immediately said it was to set you up. So yeah, I think that's EXACTLY the kind of thing you'd do as mafia.

[v]Mynd[/v]

[v]Mynd[/v]

I've moved from you just trolling me to you being scum. Your reads so far in regards to Lenlo and Vos have been either wrong or scum motivated. Your trolling of me is off the charts and I know I'm town. So you're 0/3 on reads so far which makes you >rand to be scum.

Other scum candidates are Rand based of Vos death and both Tommy and DT from yesterday.

This is adorable.

TG stays clear of me for the latter half of the game and then suddenly, out the gate, comes at me. He doesn't realize that he just outed himself as mafia. He's desperately trying to use Lenlo and Vos flipping town as a reason for everyone to totally ignore him. I guess this is what a scum TG looks like.

If I was mafia, I wouldn't kill Vos if I had built a good scum case against him. I'm not the only one that felt this way about Vos either.

As far as Lenlo, I also wasn't the only one who felt he was scum, and I certainly wasn't the one who started the lynch. I voted him in the end because 1) he was my #2 scumread and 2) we couldn't let the vote go random.

I'm sure by now you wish you could edit or delete that post. You see, it reads to me as someone who doesn't want anyone else listening to what I have to say.

Funny thing...I was more interested in a couple other players today than you.

[v] TG [/v]

By all means, keep posting scum. It'll be fun for the rest of us to try and figure out your teammates later from your spew. Course, between the trolling, mislogic, and obv!bad reads it won't be easy, but I think we're up to the task.

[v]Mynd[/v]

I've moved from you just trolling me to you being scum. Your reads so far in regards to Lenlo and Vos have been either wrong or scum motivated. Your trolling of me is off the charts and I know I'm town. So you're 0/3 on reads so far which makes you >rand to be scum.

Other scum candidates are Rand based of Vos death and both Tommy and DT from yesterday.

This is adorable.

TG stays clear of me for the latter half of the game and then suddenly, out the gate, comes at me. He doesn't realize that he just outed himself as mafia. He's desperately trying to use Lenlo and Vos flipping town as a reason for everyone to totally ignore him. I guess this is what a scum TG looks like.

If I was mafia, I wouldn't kill Vos if I had built a good scum case against him. I'm not the only one that felt this way about Vos either.

As far as Lenlo, I also wasn't the only one who felt he was scum, and I certainly wasn't the one who started the lynch. I voted him in the end because 1) he was my #2 scumread and 2) we couldn't let the vote go random.

I'm sure by now you wish you could edit or delete that post. You see, it reads to me as someone who doesn't want anyone else listening to what I have to say.

Funny thing...I was more interested in a couple other players today than you.

[v] TG [/v]

By all means, keep posting scum. It'll be fun for the rest of us to try and figure out your teammates later from your spew. Course, between the trolling, mislogic, and obv!bad reads it won't be easy, but I think we're up to the task.

How do you not know that this is outing you as scum? Why are you so afraid of people actually taking my thoughts seriously?

"The more you call me scum, the more you out yourself."

Vote Darthe

Just a hunch.

Could also vote Salami or Nyn.

I still have no idea why people didn't vote you yesterday. What happened to your read on Tom? Yesterday you were absolutely convinced there was no way he was town,and now you're not even interested in looking at him?

Also, FTR...loving the TG and Mynd fisticuffs...have no idea on any alignment but think TG is winning the debate.

Well, I agree on your conclusion. The fact that you're not drawing any alignment from that makes me think you don't care.

BFG · July 25, 2014

Think its safe to say that we both find the timing of Darthes claim scummy, and Nyn disappearing equally scummy.

I agree that the timing of Darthe's claim was meh. But let's think about it. Right now we are, presumably, 3/10. Let's say Darthe is lying. We go to 3/8. Then we get down to 2/6. We can vote nolynch and go 2/5. At that point it is lylo but with a helluva lot more info than we have now.

Let's say Darthe is being straight. Then we go 2/8 and are even further ahead.

Seriously though, Darthe had 2 votes on him. Calling that a runaway train is exaggeration.

Lulwut?

We only started with 12 players and are two townies down

I don't get it. What part don't you agree with? Do you think there are 4 scum?

My dumb, I always do splits town - mafia separately, only just realised you meant 3 out of the 10 players are mafia

RandA lThor · July 25, 2014

1st two quotes are the first case, which is basically me quailfying the good and bad arguments on Mynd's case.

Mynd's case on TG, examination of each point, my points are in blue

It has been my experience that most mafia joke-vote each other on D1 as an early distancing technique. Looks a lot like this post below....

I refuse to sign anything until my lawyer has looked over it.

Lenlo needs to be silenced and vigged ASAP.

Hastur Hastur Hastur.

Bring it.

[v]TG[/v] Preemptive Strike!

TG's response here....playful non-threatening banter.

I refuse to sign anything until my lawyer has looked over it.

Lenlo needs to be silenced and vigged ASAP.

Hastur Hastur Hastur.

Bring it.

[v]TG[/v] Preemptive Strike!

Official Day Action*

*****

Pimp Slap Lenlo

*****

Lenlo, you've been silenced and your powers are now mine to do with as I please.

Carry on.

For both of the above, I feel that its only banter from previous conversations outside of the game. The pimp slap, silencing and so on are all outside references, and fairly innocuous.

Then, "Real Talk" TG immediately switches to an INACTIVE player? Kronos will later opt-out, but I find this move very questionable this early in the game. It's almost as if he knew Kronos was not active on....say.....a mafia QT as well? Either way, too early to go after an inactive and very scummy to do so.

Real Talk: [v]Kronos[/v]

I'm reading between the lines of his 0 posts so far and I've come to two conclusions. He's totes mcgotes scum. And I'm pretty awesome at mafia.

Little too much extrapolation here in an obvious joke. The 0 posts comment, totes mcgotes, and him saying he's awesome at mafia are all obvious jokes.

More lighthearted banter between two players where Lenlo is still voting TG.

Rand would say yes nomatter what. Lol

So TG, am I gonna die tonight?

So Len-bro, am I gonna die with you tonight?

Again, nothing bad in here, they were talking previously and were pretty much continuing.

And now the appeal to Tommy pointing out someone elses early jokiness other than his own.

Tommy, you town? What do you think of Vos early jokiness?

Here's where the good parts start. Tommy, you town appeals to Tommy as TG subtly implies himself as more clearly town than Tommy. Secondly, I do agree that its weird he commented on Vos' early jokiness, when he was joking the entire time before.

Appeal to Mynd. Is this guy running for congress?

BTW Mynd, love your new dream faker siggy. Epic awesome.

Extrapolation too far again. Cuz I was laughing a lot when I saw that siggy.

Vote TG for Towniest Townie in 2014!!! Seriously, more arse smoochin!

Tommy, you town? What do you think of Vos early jokiness?

Yeah. He seems relaxed and I haven't noticed anything different than what I've seen from him in my sample size of ~2 games, so I'd guess he's town.

I like your consistency.

lol wut? I agree with Mynd on this one, but I don't see any consistency here that is large enough to comment on. And what consistency are you talking about? Consistency in this game? Obviously barely anything has changed and he's the same side and role. Consistency with previous games? This was a 1 sentence simple answer.

Darthe seems to be a heat magnet in most games, which makes him an easy target and scapegoat. Darthe has barely posted this game and yet that seems to be enough for TG to consider him among the top 3 wolfiest players in the game? And what happened to Kronos?

(heh. The only GOAT Darthe seems to get is being a scapeGOAT! Hahahaha, I kill me!)

Drunk, Rand, the funny characters guy. Those are the three I would smite with my sword.

Nynlia, Darthe, and Drunk (but not) are the three howlers right now IMO (maybe Vos thrown in at a slightly lesser level). I wouldn't lynch Drunk because it's an unwritten common courtesy law that we never D1 lynch people who are playing their first game here on DM.

Top townies are Len, Tommy, BFArm.

[v]Darthe[/v]

Don't get the Darthe vote either, but again Mynd, pretty sure he was joking about Kronos.

Our Goodwill Ambassador of DM Mafia is not going to lynch Drunk Tank for any reason on D1. Isn't that sweet?

Don't take it easy on me. I'm no baby.

I don't plan on taking it easy on you by any means, that said, I personally won't lynch you D1. I'd rather give you at least that much time to get used to the culture differences in DM mafia play compared to other places.

Top 3 town/scum reads so far?

If he meant that, then that would be more scummy. However, I think he was just trying to be nice to DT here.

RandA lThor · July 25, 2014

This is part 2 of that

Then this....which gets NO explanation.

Lenlo, I need your help.

Now, less than 15 minutes later, Lenlo replies. Its almost as if he knew Lenlo was online. Kinda like they were working together in some other form of communication....like say a Mafia QT perhaps? What did TG need help with? A mildly funny gif....one that I believe was hastily used in a desperate attempt to explain why he really needed Lenlo.....to read the mafia QT.

No dude, no one plans out a gif on a mafia QT this much.

TG has waded in the spam with us for a lot longer in other games. Why the sudden haste? Why the flip-floppy behavior? Guilty conscience? And how is he really pushing any gameplay at this point? Voting an inactive? Kissing everyone's arses?

Why so anxious for a lynch, TG?

TG, you are rapidly switching between serious and goofy and I ding understand the transitions. What's up? You on crack?

Another game with 100 pages of D1 spam posts will be soul destroying for me, so I'd rather get this game kick started and at least push some gameplay.

First of all, you were a fairly large part of that. Secondly, this game had already started to become fairly interesting if I recall correctly. Thirdly, it almost never showed signs of becoming nearly that big. So agree with Mynd here.

Scum Playbook: When called out for a guilty conscience, downplay its signifigence with a funny gif. Make sure to choose one among the most popular, like an Archer or Anchor Man one. I'm surprised this one doesn't play Danger Zone when you click on it.

See below:

...and now the guilty conscience explanation.

Once again, you were a part of that, and you weren't some leading force that was trying to take people away from the spam. This is probably an attempt to make you look better than you actually are.

TG gives Nyn the finger and calls her out for giving him a weak FOS. For everyone's convienence, I colored and bolded the part where Nyn gives TGlems an FOS in her quoted quote.

Not a fan of TG deciding that TD deserves some kind of free pass today. I don't care if someone is new. Not even sure why he brought it up.... unless he finds him suspicious? Because if he doesn't, then why even mention him?

For as long as I've played on DM new players are pushed D1, coached D1, engaged D1, but not lynched D1. Your weak wanna-be FOS is a weak wanna-be FOS.

Did you see it? No? EXACTLY!

Lol found this pretty funny and interesting. This is probably one of the larger scumtells, being fairly defensive over almost nothing.

And now, a warning to all of us lowly hethens who DARE consider TGlems as scum because they might have an agenda. Vos is naturally #CHAINLOCKTOWNwithPADLOCK while we should be suspicious of players other than TG if we wanna be decent townies. Read the following and try not to facepalm too much.

For as long as I've played on DM I've never heard this so called rule.

I've seen it mentioned multiple times as an unwritten type of thing. I'm sure somebody else can attest.

Gonna start this all with a contradiction: I agree - but I still think your eagerness is pinging. Doesn't really make sense, but eh, thats what I feel.

Vos is #LOCKTOWN. I'm pushing it because I know I'm town and I don't trust anyone else to push it. They might have an agenda. Any decent townie should be suspicious of another player getting out in front while at the same time understanding the want to push scumhunting.

Well at least I can begin the exception to the rule. A vote on someone because of one scummy post is a scummy vote, especially when you specifically said earlier that you've barely played with me and need to get to know my playstyle, is a scummy vote. Largest scum read is now Vos.

Rand, what would your reaction have been if Vos found you to be incredibly scummy but didn't vote you? I find your defense to be a narrative in which Vos can't win nomatter what he does.

But that wasn't my only point. My main point which no one seems to be responding to here is that you voted me based off one post. The things I've said after that are not related to your vote in the first place. The fact that you voted me based off one post that you thought was scummy but was obviously meant to be a joke is in itself scummy.

And was my reaction to one vote large? Yes, but thats because I'm not only defending myself, but I'm also fosing Vos at the same time. Thats why it looks bigger than it actually is.

[DELETED POSTS]

FOSes or putting someone on a scum list are characteristic of a scummy post. But posting that you're going to sit in a corner with a gif shouldn't warrant a vote. Thats the difference between mafia-like posts, which can vary on perspective, and posts that are intended to change game flow.

And what you just said is directly related to meta. There are some playstyles that some people find scummy when they play with them. I for example found Mynd's beat the grass technique scummy the first time I played him. To me, it was him, acting like mafia. But that's just how he played. That has so much to do with meta.

I disagree completely on what you refer to as a "scummy post." And the argument you are applying about yourself applies to Vos also. Maybe it is Vos' playstyle to always vote "popcorn" posts nomatter what. Either way, like I said above, it reads as narrative.

Yeah the way this was phrased was a little weird. Again going back to the I'm more clear town than you guys, I should be making the reads kind of mentality. Don't like it. Coincidentally though, this makes me doubt a lot that you and Vos would be on a team together.

TG earlier states that he isn't going to vote Drunk Tank because he's new to DM. Yet he fires off at Rand for calling out Vos for voting him and not knowing his game play. Don't forget, he just finished warning us all that if we want to be decent townies, we need to be suspicious.

Then a defense of Vos which doesn't even begin to consider that Vos is Scummy McVosScum.

Yeah, TG......I have an agenda in this game. It's getting rid of all the scum.

I figure I'd start with you.

So essentially, I refuted a lot of what Mynd said, but even without that, this is still a pretty strong case on TG. Comment on reaction of TG later.

BFG · July 25, 2014

Think its safe to say that we both find the timing of Darthes claim scummy, and Nyn disappearing equally scummy.

I'm eating dinner :P

Not enough :sad:

RandA lThor · July 25, 2014

And here is my response to your response to Mynd's case.

/kicks door open

How the heck you boys doin?!

Sup AVM?

Deleting all rebuttals that I also mentioned in my analysis of Mynd's case to avoid "ditto". Again, I am in bold and blue

*****MOD APPROVED EDIT***********I DID MY BEST TO FIX THE QUOTES BUT ALL THESE QUOTES ARE FROM MYND************

I'm taking out a bunch of the nested quotes. You want them, go back and read them.

And now the appeal to Tommy pointing out someone elses early jokiness other than his own.

I'm engaging players because I know my only agenda is scumhunting. What is your agenda?

I don't even think this responded to what he said. Look at my case for a clearer argument against you for that post, one that you can't respond with, I scumhunt bro, y u no scumhunt?

Darthe seems to be a heat magnet in most games, which makes him an easy target and scapegoat. Darthe has barely posted this game and yet that seems to be enough for TG to consider him among the top 3 wolfiest players in the game? And what happened to Kronos?

(heh. The only GOAT Darthe seems to get is being a scapeGOAT! Hahahaha, I kill me!)

Darthe is wolfie for his BS reads that he popped in with. Show me how he had helped town in any way by the time I made my list.

Also, by applying your own logic to yourself, you must be saying you know Darthe is town with your joke. How would you know that Mynd? Only if you're scum.

If I remember correctly, you also voted Darthe for this. I understand that he may have been somewhat scummy, but again, one post votes?

Our Goodwill Ambassador of DM Mafia is not going to lynch Drunk Tank for any reason on D1. Isn't that sweet?

No, I'm not.

K this changes my view of what you said before. This isn't necessarily scummy or town as much as stupid. You should never ever make an exception in a mafia game to not lynch someone. If someone got a day cop report on him, he slipped and said he was mafia, or he did some extremely scummy things right in a row, would you go "Oh he's new here, lets go easy". This is mafia. Voting someone on their first day here, especially when they've played elsewhere, is not personal, its part of the game. You making a blatant exception goes against mafia 101, as town or scum.

Then this....which gets NO explanation.

Lenlo, I need your help.

Now, less than 15 minutes later, Lenlo replies. Its almost as if he knew Lenlo was online. Kinda like they were working together in some other form of communication....like say a Mafia QT perhaps? What did TG need help with? A mildly funny gif....one that I believe was hastily used in a desperate attempt to explain why he really needed Lenlo.....to read the mafia QT.

This might be the stupidest thing you said. You're saying I knew Lenlo was online because I posted this. In the next sentence you're saying I needed him to get online to read the QT. So I knew he was online which is why I posted this to try and get him online. Are you taking logic lessons from Despo and Red?

I agree with what you said, but just wanted to point out that this is ironic considering the above.

TG has waded in the spam with us for a lot longer in other games. Why the sudden haste? Why the flip-floppy behavior? Guilty conscience? And how is he really pushing any gameplay at this point? Voting an inactive? Kissing everyone's arses?

Yes, and wading through it is soul killing me. It's fun....for a while, but everything in moderation. Hence, some jokes, some gameplay. Sorry you can't understand moderation.

I'd say you were higher than the average for number of joke posts and so on in this game. That means that you can't suddenly change (especially after people have already started playing the game) and go, "STOP TOWN! Let me lead you to non spammy posts, because I want game play". You're inflating the amount of things you've done for town, an action commonly done by scum.

TG gives Nyn the finger and calls her out for giving him a weak FOS. For everyone's convienence, I colored and bolded the part where Nyn gives TGlems an FOS in her quoted quote.

You're a LLwL. I called it a wanna-be FOS. Insinuated without using the words. Nice try. You even used pretty colors to draw attention to how your placing all this into your narrative.

Point taken, I understood a wanna-be FOS as a blatant FOS that wasn't as strong.

And now, a warning to all of us lowly hethens who DARE consider TGlems as scum because they might have an agenda. Vos is naturally #CHAINLOCKTOWNwithPADLOCK while we should be suspicious of players other than TG if we wanna be decent townies. Read the following and try not to facepalm too much.

TG earlier states that he isn't going to vote Drunk Tank because he's new to DM. Yet he fires off at Rand for calling out Vos for voting him and not knowing his game play. Don't forget, he just finished warning us all that if we want to be decent townies, we need to be suspicious.

Then a defense of Vos which doesn't even begin to consider that Vos is Scummy McVosScum.

Yeah, TG......I have an agenda in this game. It's getting rid of all the scum.

I figure I'd start with you.

I don't know why I'm arguing with you when you're doing such a good job of arguing with yourself. Vos' alignment has nothing to do with Rand being right or not. Rand is wrong on this one. I could be attacking scum for all the wrong reasons. Just because they are scum doesn't make my reasoning better.

And DT being new v. Rand and Vos not knowing playstyles are two completely different things. You're conflating them, badly, to fit your narrative.

And if you actually are town, then you aren't gonna be checking any boxes on your agenda. Terribad case is terribad.

Once again, your stance on DT because he's new literally makes no sense from any viewpoint. Now that I think of it, its even somewhat scummy, contrary to the null read that I stated before, because only mafia would state that they would never lynch someone. It makes for a good mafia protecting town story.

On the other hand, town never ever ever states that they would never lynch someone on a certain day, simply because they are new to DM. That's ridiculous.

Mynd, your scum team is TG and Lenlo? I think TG has some scum equity, but I don't think your "omg they're colluding!" theory you start that case with is very likely.

Often people say "hah did you plan that in scum chat?!" and that's almost never the case. I mean do you seriously plan out conversations in scum chat? I don't.

TG wanting less spam isn't scummy. Him being spammy while also deriding people for not being serious kind of is, though.

I give your case a 4/10. Might be right but probably for the wrong reasons. A lot of what you found scummy is actually semantics.

Except for the "scum equity" this is spot on.

Lol two things happened here.

1. You tried to take a viewpoint of someone and take it out of context by omitting anything bad about yourself and only presenting the good parts.

2. You didn't realize that you just accepted the fact that its scummy for you to be spammy while deriding people, and also the fact that Tommy said you might be scum.

But stay tuned for TG to shred my case to shreds by shredding it!!!! When he gets back from [reason for delay] so he can start shredding!

If it was terribad, why not just say why now?

/me begins to hold breath.

It's called work. I had a meeting and knew it would take time to properly ~~ridicule~~ respond to your "case".

I'd like to clarify before you respond the same way to my analysis of your reaction, that my beef with you is that in that post, you didn't mention a single thing, even in a quick phrase, that was wrong with Mynd. If you had time to read Mynd's entire case, then you had time to post, his linking is bad, or ,he's thinking too much about joke posts.

*popcorn*

Wasn't the "popcorn" comment mentioned by Vos earlier about scumtell?

Yes, the same scumtell that I've been campaigning against. I don't agree with it against me or Tommy. Its supposed to be a funny post, and though it may be a little scummy, it is nowhere near as telling as you or Vos seems to think.

Mynd thinks TG is lock scum. Mynd's case on TG is a bit contrived but TG's reaction to it was bad. Considering I've agreed with Mynd several times so far ITG and I've noticed TG has felt a bit... erratic... I think we might have something here. But more due to unnatural emotional states than the semantics argument Mynd was forwarding.

Scummy follow-on to Mynd's bad case (that you yourself called bad) is scummy. Ping.

I'm starting to think that the 2nd point up above is very correct. Tommy basically said what I said in way fewer words and with less conviction. Mynd's case has a lot of BS, but some parts are good, and you may be scum.

This btw is an OMGUS FOS. Someone that I liked suddenly FoSed me, let me get back at them really quick and make up some reasoning that is completely false (although this time may have gave false reasoning unknowingly)

Quick bit of fun to reenergize anyone reading over all my long posts. Lol I love this part of the movie. "If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball" :

Rand its not that you missed it, its that you avoided answering the actual questions thrown at you. You joked with them, you quoted them, but you didnt actually /answer/ them. Your also missing the point where I supported Tommy's reasoning for voting you.

For the NotBob thing I said may. May being the key word. You were my only scum read at that point in the reread, D1, so of course im going to be focused on you. And mafia wouldnt touch a teammate with a 10ft pole to avoid linking? Please in a game this small thats a non issue. Mafia have to interact with each other in some way in a game this size.

And you can call the reasoning false all you want, it doesnt make it so.

Ok. With the whole answers thing, I'm not just saying its false, it is. If you want to make it true, find posts of people asking me questions, and me answering them jokingly or not answering them but quoting them. The only time I've done that is with NotBob's vote which I originally thought was a joke, and if I've done it anywhere else, I've missed it.

Secondly, if I missed it, it was probably a one-liner to give you more cred again. And if it was in your second post and not your original, that's even worse, because now you're just jumping onto other people's reads to make yourself seem more credible.

And thirdly for the NotBob thing, if I'm your only scum read that early in the game, that still doesn't mean you can assume I'm scum, and make an assumption based off of that. And mafia avoiding each other, even in a large game, is completely plausible, especially when the thing they're avoiding is initial votes. There is more reason for mafia not to vote their partners first, then to do so.

Deleting all of the nested quotes but what I'm actually replying to.

A whole bunch of quotes and stuff, warning: large

Tommy's case on me, refutes

PLEASE STOP QUOTING THOSE HUGS WOTS. I CAN'T READ THEM ON MY PHONE. Spoiler them at least.

It's the opposite of what you said. I rarely see townies list themselves in their townlist. Your logic for calling him a town reads like writing him off rather than trying to discern his alignment. This is the second time you've defended Drunk with dubious logic.

TMI garnished with a fencesit. A fine dessert. For a wolf! [Do I sound like Mynd?]

[unvote]

[v]Rand[/v]

We can argue this both ways. I can still argue that scum wouldn't do it since it would draw unneeded attention like the kind its drawing right now. Both points are valid. And I'm not blindly defending him, I am qualitatively observing him. Literally right under I make a point about why I think he's scummy as well.

Also, just because I point out both sides of DT, townie and scummy, doesn't mean I'm fencesitting. I am honestly unsure about him at this point. However, on other people, I have made my position extremely clear, i.e. not fencesitting.

How can you say the bold when you literally said you're placing a townread on him because scum don't list themselves as town? If you truly feel both sides are both (scum doesn't do it, town doesn't do it), that's null by the very definition. Combined with you pointing out something scummy, I don't see how you could possibly reach a conclusion of him being town without already knowing his alignment.

Also underline completely goes against having a townread on him.

Kind of confused by what you mean here, but I used to have a townread on him, and not its a town lean due to the post I was commenting on. So thats why the underline goes against having a townread on him, that's supposed to, its part of what made me switch my assessment on him.

Clovdyx · July 25, 2014

Why was it clear? There was loads of time till the deadline when I placed my vote on Clov. And I wasn't around when the deadline hit.

Clov is currently at the top of my scum list. I would have settled for DT too but since everyone is being so accommodating to newbies lately, I decided it wasn't worth the argument. There are a couple of other people that were wary about Clov, like TG. Was hoping they'd switch to him. Since there was no train with an abundance of votes, I was hopeful.

This caught my eye from the night phase. Nyn speaks about me as though I'm town in this post, noting that I was wary of Clov. Only a townsperson is wary of other players. Nyn using phrasing like this when earlier she said something about putting flaming dog ish on my doorstep (assuming that meant she thought I was scummy) is very strange. FOS.

What's strange about it? Haven't been a fan of you thus far but I have other people at the top of my scum list. Town or scum, you are confined to the statements you make on thread. One of which was your suspicion of Clov. You could be bussing Clov. You could be legit scum reading him. Not sure which of them it is yet.

In any case, Mynd was trying to make a point on how starting a Clov train was a lost cause. I disagree because I don't think I was the only one who felt iffy about him.

What do you have against TG? I think he's probably been the most transparent person in the thread. I know Mynd had the case against him yesterday - I don't remember YOU saying a word about him, though.

Myndrunner · July 25, 2014

Well, I don't think there would be more than one cop in this game. No one else has cc'd the cop claim. We have a hidden doc. If Nyn flips town, we know who scum is.

I do agree about slowing down though. We can still discuss it without hammering, but there have been enough players tossing Nyn's name around in this game.

[unvote]

[v] Nyn [/v]

I don't even.

You beat me to this though

He's playing like he rolled jester or something.

I am not sure how that doesn't make sense. I don't think we should hammer Nyn right away, but when an uncc'd cop in a basic game has a clear mafia read, where we likely have a doc somewhere, why wouldn't I vote Nyn?

Myndrunner · July 25, 2014

Why was it clear? There was loads of time till the deadline when I placed my vote on Clov. And I wasn't around when the deadline hit.

Clov is currently at the top of my scum list. I would have settled for DT too but since everyone is being so accommodating to newbies lately, I decided it wasn't worth the argument. There are a couple of other people that were wary about Clov, like TG. Was hoping they'd switch to him. Since there was no train with an abundance of votes, I was hopeful.

This caught my eye from the night phase. Nyn speaks about me as though I'm town in this post, noting that I was wary of Clov. Only a townsperson is wary of other players. Nyn using phrasing like this when earlier she said something about putting flaming dog ish on my doorstep (assuming that meant she thought I was scummy) is very strange. FOS.

What's strange about it? Haven't been a fan of you thus far but I have other people at the top of my scum list. Town or scum, you are confined to the statements you make on thread. One of which was your suspicion of Clov. You could be bussing Clov. You could be legit scum reading him. Not sure which of them it is yet.

In any case, Mynd was trying to make a point on how starting a Clov train was a lost cause. I disagree because I don't think I was the only one who felt iffy about him.

What do you have against TG? I think he's probably been the most transparent person in the thread. I know Mynd had the case against him yesterday - I don't remember YOU saying a word about him, though.

Why are white knighting TG? What do you gain by defending him? What are your thoughts on Darthe's cop claim and mafia claim on Nyn? Why are you narrow mindedly focused on defending TG?

BFG · July 25, 2014

3/10 is the same as 7-3.

Just realised

#feelingstupid

In general I agree with you, you don't risk the cop over a VT. But the last time I blindly followed the cop it didn't work so well for Town, so I need to think about this (and talk with Csarmi)

My preference would be to wait till everyone had checked in to lynch, but that's just our vote.

Nynaeve · July 25, 2014

Stances everybody. Nyn, full reads please. And stop voting. This is hybrid hammer and we got time.

@Nyb - why you think a 1-1 trade good for town here?

It's a good trade because once you see my flip, you got Darthe in the bag, which means one scum less to worry about.

The current read list that Halli and I were discussing in the hydra qt:

1. Darthe - scum lean

2. Drunk Tank - Scum lean

3. BFArmi(BFG and Csarmi) - null

5. NotBob - Town lean

6. Tommy - Town lean

7. RandA lthor - Town lean

8. Clov - Scum lean

10. Mynd - null

12.TG - Scum lean

RandA lThor · July 25, 2014

Darthe played as I would expect a cop too, making some cases and so on, but not playing so much where he would attract attention and possibly have to claim to not get lynched. Hence he was on my list of people avoiding attention, but it turned out he was cop instead of mafia.

Secondly, Nyn was also on my list of suspects, so even if she was towntelling, it's not that hard to believe she is mafia.

Thirdly, I don't think mafia would sacrifice Darthe for something like this. Although Darthe was on my list and others, no one had really moved against Darthe. As mafia, most other players have seen more attention then Darthe, so it would have been better for them to be sacrificed for something like this than Darthe.

Fourthly, town has higher numbers than mafia. That pretty much means that a 1:1 trade is almost always in town's favor.

Every single point here is so wrong I dunno what to say. Seriously. Ask BFG about my reaction... Not gonna copy it here.

TG you seriously believe we don't need a discussion at one mislynch left situation and have a full waste of day? Over a horribad claim timing?

Really? Please tell me more about how a 1:1 trade with scum and town is bad. Please, with fractions and everything.

And the second point about Nyn can't be wrong, thats my opinion lol.

Thirdly, on the third point, who do you suppose is on the mafia team that would rather sacrifice Darthe then themselves in the situation we're in right now.

Fourthly, do you think Darthe played in a way to get a whole lot of attention? Or do you think people who play cop try to get more attention?

Don't just say these points are bad... really bad... and then don't say anything.

TG you seriously believe we don't need a discussion at one mislynch left situation and have a full waste of day? Over a horribad claim timing?

I seriously believe I have seen you (and others) do this in multiple games. In the past I agreed. However, each and every time the discussion goes absolutely nowhere because, hanging over everything, is a cop with a guilty and an outed scum.

So, I already asked my questions which was whether or not you and NB's soft claims were real. You both indicated (NB by voting) no, so I'm inclined to believe Darthe and continue the game.

There are six people who didn't claim they weren't cop.

Lol we don't need every person to claim that they're not ccing before we place a vote.

Think its safe to say that we both find the timing of Darthes claim scummy, and Nyn disappearing equally scummy.

I agree that the timing of Darthe's claim was meh. But let's think about it. Right now we are, presumably, 3/10. Let's say Darthe is lying. We go to 3/8. Then we get down to 2/6. We can vote nolynch and go 2/5. At that point it is lylo but with a helluva lot more info than we have now.

Let's say Darthe is being straight. Then we go 2/8 and are even further ahead.

Seriously though, Darthe had 2 votes on him. Calling that a runaway train is exaggeration.

^agree with TG over here on the numbers. This trade is worth it, if it even becomes a trade which I doubt heavily.

Think its safe to say that we both find the timing of Darthes claim scummy, and Nyn disappearing equally scummy.

I agree that the timing of Darthe's claim was meh. But let's think about it. Right now we are, presumably, 3/10. Let's say Darthe is lying. We go to 3/8. Then we get down to 2/6. We can vote nolynch and go 2/5. At that point it is lylo but with a helluva lot more info than we have now.

Let's say Darthe is being straight. Then we go 2/8 and are even further ahead.

Seriously though, Darthe had 2 votes on him. Calling that a runaway train is exaggeration.

Lulwut?

We only started with 12 players and are two townies down

I have no idea how this refutes anything that TG has said.

Well, I don't think there would be more than one cop in this game. No one else has cc'd the cop claim. We have a hidden doc. If Nyn flips town, we know who scum is.

I do agree about slowing down though. We can still discuss it without hammering, but there have been enough players tossing Nyn's name around in this game.

[unvote]

[v] Nyn [/v]

I don't even.

Lol I was laughing at this too.

Also, how has no one commented on how Nyn's reaction comes from the book How to be Mafia chapter What to do when a cop guilties you. She literally just asserts her role PM says shes town, says she'll die to give town what they need, and doesn't say much beyond that.

Tyler Glembo · July 25, 2014

Doin' my best with the nested quotes...

Tommy, you town? What do you think of Vos early jokiness?

Here's where the good parts start. Tommy, you town appeals to Tommy as TG subtly implies himself as more clearly town than Tommy. Secondly, I do agree that its weird he commented on Vos' early jokiness, when he was joking the entire time before.

Appeal to Mynd. Is this guy running for congress?

Vote TG for Towniest Townie in 2014!!! Seriously, more arse smoochin!

Tommy, you town? What do you think of Vos early jokiness?

Yeah. He seems relaxed and I haven't noticed anything different than what I've seen from him in my sample size of ~2 games, so I'd guess he's town.

I like your consistency.

lol wut? I agree with Mynd on this one, but I don't see any consistency here that is large enough to comment on. And what consistency are you talking about? Consistency in this game? Obviously barely anything has changed and he's the same side and role. Consistency with previous games? This was a 1 sentence simple answer.

I asked Tommy about Vos because Tommy had town!read Vos 1-page earlier. It was a quick and easy question posed specifically in the negative to see if Tommy would quickly change his read due to my phrasing. In short, a laughably simple trap to see if Tommy was actually reading the thread and forming opinions or scum who would just go with the flow.

Darthe seems to be a heat magnet in most games, which makes him an easy target and scapegoat. Darthe has barely posted this game and yet that seems to be enough for TG to consider him among the top 3 wolfiest players in the game? And what happened to Kronos?

(heh. The only GOAT Darthe seems to get is being a scapeGOAT! Hahahaha, I kill me!)

Drunk, Rand, the funny characters guy. Those are the three I would smite with my sword.

Nynlia, Darthe, and Drunk (but not) are the three howlers right now IMO (maybe Vos thrown in at a slightly lesser level). I wouldn't lynch Drunk because it's an unwritten common courtesy law that we never D1 lynch people who are playing their first game here on DM.

Top townies are Len, Tommy, BFArm.

[v]Darthe[/v]

Don't get the Darthe vote either, but again Mynd, pretty sure he was joking about Kronos.

The Darthe vote was because he came into the thread and underwhelmed me with his couple town reads. Looked skeezy!Darthe to me.

Our Goodwill Ambassador of DM Mafia is not going to lynch Drunk Tank for any reason on D1. Isn't that sweet?

Don't take it easy on me. I'm no baby.

I don't plan on taking it easy on you by any means, that said, I personally won't lynch you D1. I'd rather give you at least that much time to get used to the culture differences in DM mafia play compared to other places.

Top 3 town/scum reads so far?

If he meant that, then that would be more scummy. However, I think he was just trying to be nice to DT here.

And here I stand by what I said. I'm not going to D1 lynch somebody brand new to DM mafia. I'll give them at least a day to get used to the culture. After that though, they are fair game.

RandA lThor · July 25, 2014

Stances everybody. Nyn, full reads please. And stop voting. This is hybrid hammer and we got time.

@Nyb - why you think a 1-1 trade good for town here?

It's a good trade because once you see my flip, you got Darthe in the bag, which means one scum less to worry about.

The current read list that Halli and I were discussing in the hydra qt:

1. Darthe - scum lean

2. Drunk Tank - Scum lean

3. BFArmi(BFG and Csarmi) - null

5. NotBob - Town lean

6. Tommy - Town lean

7. RandA lthor - Town lean

8. Clov - Scum lean

10. Mynd - null

12.TG - Scum lean

Lol and the finale in the chapter What to do when a cop guilties you. Lay out a list of all your reads on people and give the town a whole steaming pile of WIFOM.

RandA lThor · July 25, 2014

I feel your pain TG. Also if you do get time, respond to the consistency comment in blue, I thought that one was unusually odd.

Nynaeve · July 25, 2014

Also, how has no one commented on how Nyn's reaction comes from the book How to be Mafia chapter What to do when a cop guilties you. She literally just asserts her role PM says shes town, says she'll die to give town what they need, and doesn't say much beyond that.

What am I supposed to say? I can't logically argue a lie. As long as the cop doesn't CC Darthe, there isn't really much I can do. And since I don't want the cop to CC him, I'm not going to push for it.

Clovdyx · July 25, 2014

Nyn is not town.

Thats a result.

[V] NYN [/V]

Nyn is not town.

Thats a result.

[V] NYN [/V]

And yet my role PM says otherwise.

And yet my cop role PM says that I get true results and it's a basic game.

Bye nyn.

And yet my cop role PM says that I get true results and it's a basic game.

Bye nyn.

Fine by me. Town loses a VT to catch a scum. Worth it.

Okay Nyn, help me figure this one out. I know Darthe had a vote on him, but I don't think there was really a solid argument against him. I know Notbob argued it with a hunch, but Csarmi specifically stated he wasn't going to case Darthe. So Darthe probably wasn't getting lynched today.

So if he's scum and panicking, why do you think he would choose YOU as the townie he would drag down with himself?

csarmi · July 25, 2014

UNVOTE ALREADY

csarmi · July 25, 2014

Nyn is at L-1.

SLOW

DOWN

csarmi · July 25, 2014

and play mafia

night all

Nynaeve · July 25, 2014

Lol and the finale in the chapter What to do when a cop guilties you. Lay out a list of all your reads on people and give the town a whole steaming pile of WIFOM.

It doesn't really matter what I do, because you already made up your mind. So you're gonna scrutinize every post I make, basically.

Regardless, I am offering my reads. Hopefully they will be helpful and if not, no harm done.

Nynaeve · July 25, 2014

So if he's scum and panicking, why do you think he would choose YOU as the townie he would drag down with himself?

You want me to rationalize what Darthe does? lol Can't help you there, sorry.

csarmi · July 25, 2014

Lol and the finale in the chapter What to do when a cop guilties you. Lay out a list of all your reads on people and give the town a whole steaming pile of WIFOM.

It doesn't really matter what I do, because you already made up your mind. So you're gonna scrutinize every post I make, basically.

Regardless, I am offering my reads. Hopefully they will be helpful and if not, no harm done.

Nyn. You have crsytal clear reasoning, logic, very good analysis when town. If you're in fact town, you are the best informed town at this moment. I don't ask for thrown out reads. I want full analysis.

csarmi · July 25, 2014

So if he's scum and panicking, why do you think he would choose YOU as the townie he would drag down with himself?

You want me to rationalize what Darthe does? lol Can't help you there, sorry.

Rationalize what YOU are doing. You are the most rational, sharp-minded player i know.

[Basic]TRON Mafia Game-Day 4

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