[Standard] - Hitchhiker's Game to the Galaxy - Game Over

[csarmi]

... and see you all in the morning

[dicetosser1]

something leelou said last page bothers me. not about her but as a general thing that people do in mafia.

 

Looking to see if someone is on DM tells you nothing. I have the page open while at work, but that doesn't mean i get to read it. I often leave my computer, and whatever is open at the time, on overnight while im sleeping. But im not actually here.

 

Im pretty sure im not the only one in existence who does those sorts of things.

[dicetosser1]

seeing as im at L-2 and work is about to start and im not sure if i will get on much today and i KNOW i wont be on tonight due to my daughters baseball game, i will just claim now shall I??  I shall.

 

Im the watcher.

[Cory Caboose]

Character?

[Andrej]

My 90% accurate villager list:

 

Tina

AJ

Thane

Nyn

 

My can't clear because too good but want to clear:

 

Clov

 

The amount of non-committal votes on Dice bothers me but I like a good portion of his wagon enough and he's been invisible to the point where I would not fight his lynch in any way

 

I would like more time this phase, though. We still have two days until deadline

 

I'm with you on the bolded. I haven't read back on his most recent post but I'll get to that once I finished responding to what I want to in this wall.

 

Dice sitting at L-2 without another viable lynch wagon in sight bothers me in a general sense, but I agree that I'm not staunchly against it either.

 

Just spent the last few hours reading the whole game and getting some sort of narrative. 

 

First, yes, I am not an active player D1 because I tend to need some information on hand before getting a good read on players. D1 is more of tone and assumptions which I am not very comfortable with. 

 

Second, I get a lot of info by reading the thread as a whole rather than post by post. Which is probably why I have only a 

bunch of posts D1 in almost all my games. It will exponentially increase as the game progresses, but there we are.

 

Anyway, back to the reads. Let me get my good town reads out of the way.

 

Des - I see him trying to explore a lot of avenues, which he does a lot as town. In this game, he started out with Clov which was somewhat of a joke/reaction test vote. Then he votes Leelou and his case on her was pretty straightforward at the time and lately Dice. He is not throwing darts but more of having a stance on each of his suspects, which is a good towntell on him.

 

Clov - I can sense that he is not overdoing the questioning routine that Tommy pointed out the in Real Genius game. His stance on Dice again has been good and not the nudgy type I saw when I was scummate with him

 

Thane - I don't agree with Des about him overdoing the newbie meta. His tone feels genuine. Have played only one game with him, his first game where he was scum. Maybe he has changed his gameplay as he is more experienced now. Nobody noticed it but a big LOL at reading himself here. 

 

Verbal - Yeah, I am not seeing the lurky scum meta in this game. He is a bit aggressive, had a good back-and-forth with Cory regarding his tonereads. He is not hiding in the background as he usually does as scum. Town on him 

 

That are my current town reads as of now. I will get back on the rest of the players tomorrow as i spent a way lot of time reading the game and it is already 2:00 AM here. First thing after I wake up.

 

I bolded the bits I find contradictory with what you're saying in the very same post.

 

You're not a very active D1 player but you say that you tend to have more D1 posts? You also say you aren't comfortable using tone to evaluate players but are using tone as a means to list Thane as one of your town reads. These don't fit together.

 

All right, serious time.  #GotSwole #Whydidmypullupsdropbyten

 

Was literally just looking at this and sorta frowning, not awesome wagonomics to look at atm.

 

I would look back at Hallia and reread her post when she voted Mish over Dice - I'm pretty sure they both are generally being accused of the same thing as far as bandwagoning onto Leelou.

 

Dice trains looks okay at best. I think Nyn is probably town, not very sure on RTE (permascum read), I'm feeling better about Despo but I really don't know about Fishdyx yet. I like the logic behind his cases but after reading Cory's meta assessment it sounds like he'll case similarly as either alignment, so null.

 

People need to start voting and getting things on record.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Pray is scum and hiding out. Thane seems to be leaning heavily at Dice being scum but hasn't voted him yet, that's not really a good sign imo. BFG I'm kind of wary of just because I've been burned a lot recently - I'm not really following a lot of what she's been posting either and the way she started the game was kind of strange and unusual for her. I really have no idea where she is leaning as far as reads go. Verb I'm hesitant of atm as well, he could just be slow playing his vote today which I don't really mind but he's definitely on my watch list for his general agreeable attitude.

 

Here is Hallia's vote for Mish.  A little bit doctored due to unrelated stuff about Nyn.

 

Uh oh, Pral/Hallia not clear yet

 

Looks like I'm mafia again 

 

You can be town for now.  Your entire tone was different last game, it was like playing with a Cory-Doppelganger, I didn't like it ; . ;

 

Suspicious of Mish right now, the whole sleep/time thing was a strange statement.  There are people from tons of different time zones, and if that were true, how come she never defends me when I'm being attacked while at work?  It works both ways.

 

Vote Mish

 

This was made at 10:17 AM yesterday (my time, OFC), or about a half hour after Leelou voted for Mish.  Nobody was on Dice at this time, and my vote (the first on him) came at 11:58.  My first thought was that it might have been a lynch to compete with Dice.  That appears not to be the case.

 

Not sure I necessarily agree with you on the Pral issue.  He was fairly quiet when we were scum together in Twilight, but he seemed more active than he has been this game.  He also wasn't too talkative on D1 in Real Genius, when he was town.  Could go either way IMO.

 

In regards to Thane, who isn't a good sign for?  Thane?  Dice?  Or both?

 

 

 

 

How about the previous ones?

 

Let's take a look.

 

Votecount 1.01

 

Despo: Clov, Leelou

Leelou: Tina, Verbal, Despo

Verbal: Lazy

 

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch

 

Not voting: the rest of ya

 

Not much here - mostly RVS. Despo was on Clov and then moves to Leelou at this point, she votes him in return. The 2 previous votes on her don't really say much, her being the lead wagon at the time of Despo's case is worth keeping in mind though.

 

Votecount 1.02

 

Despo: 2 - Clov, Leelou

Leelou: 4 - Verbal, Despo, Dice, Mish

Verbal: 1 - Lazy

 

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch

 

Not voting: the rest of ya

 

Tina has unvoted at this point and says she is looking at either Dice or Mish for their votes on Leelou's wagon. I think that was probably the last time she posted relatively, not bad opinions. Dice and Mish have both sort of caught heat for these votes - Clov I think you went as far as to say you wouldn't vote Leelou because of them 2. I want to look back at Dice's response to his votes and I have already touched on how Mish's reciprocatory vote on Leelou fits with her meta in regards to reacting (sometimes overly) to her being mentioned in even a slightly negative way. Dice and Mish's votes look the worst on this VC, dead horse.

 

Votecount 1.03

 

Leelou: 3 - Despo, Dice, Mish

Verbal: 1 - Lazy

Dice - 1 - Clov

Mish - 2 - Leelou, Hally

 

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch

 

Not voting: Cory, BFG, Tina, Thane, RTE, AJ, Nynaeve, Pray, Verbal

 

This one gets a little more interesting. Leelou has now moved to Mish after Mish votes her with the reason that she is overreacting to having attention brought to her. Like I said earlier I want to look back on Hallia and see why she voted Mish over Dice in this instance since they were both catching relative heat at the time. Could've been a way for her to get onto a wagon that had the chance to pick up steam early. This was also the time FishDyx started the Dice wagon for reasons I can follow - all around not a bad case, still somewhat null though. Dice is pretty often lynch bait as a townie.

 

So yeah, on this one Hallia & FishDyx votes the most important.

 

UNOFFICIAL Vote count 

 

Leelou: 3 - Despo, Dice, Mish

Verbal: 1 - Lazy

Dice: 3 - Clov, RTE, Nyn

Mish: 2 - Leelou, Hally

Pral: 1 - AJ

 

Not voting: Cory, BFG, Tina, Thane, Pray, Verbal

 

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch

 

Deadline Saturday 7 pm GMT - Day 1 deadline

 

Here I put my vote on Pral - he's going to stay a scum read for me until he begins contributing in a serious way. I doubt many would follow through lynching him today though considering he has like 5 posts. Look for EOD momentum votes coming from his corner.

 

Anyway - so now we have RTE and Nyn joining the Dice train. RTE's posts have been weird this game to me, but I never really see him as ubertown either. He's another I would like to read back on, actually. Nyn basically says she thinks Dice is scummier than Mish so votes him iirc.

 

Verb pulls his early vote off Leelou at this point but doesn't vote anywhere else. Sort of concerning as I really don't know where he sits atm.

 

 

 

That's about it up to the last one I quoted.

I want to look back on Hallia and RTE a bit more when I get the time later today. I also generally need to read on where other people are sitting at with their reads/leans so we can come up with some legitimate wagons. I don't think Dice is a bad lynch necessarily but I don't want him being the only option either.

 

 

 

Bolded statements are analysis that I can follow.  Following up my request with this kind of information makes me feel pretty good about AJ being town, and he's using pretty solid reasoning. 

 

AJ - Really the only thing I'm not with you on is you firmly planting Pral as scum, rather than null, based off a lack of content.  I don't think HE has done anything to give him a higher than normal chance at being mafia at this point.  Agree to disagree, I suppose.

 

As far as your pull-ups go, try doing negatives or weighted. Those helped me get my number up pretty quickly, pyramids work pretty well too.

 

In regard to Hallia's vote, I guess I'm a little out of sync with how the wagons actually built - I was just looking at the linked VCs. I agree that if she voted Mish before you cased and voted Dice then that sort of eliminates the theory that she voted there as a competing wagon, but doesn't really negate what I said in regards to sliding onto a wagon early that had the potential to take off.

 

I'll go back and pull the post from Pral to give you a more inside look at where I'm coming from there.

 

Standby for that.

 

 

I can actually see Verb being mafia this game. I could just be tinfoiling too early, but I don't think I've ever seen him being this... reasonable? Amenable? Something like that. Idk, the number of smileys I see in his posts kind of gives me the creeps because I don't remember seeing behaviour like this from him. He seems a bit too understanding, if that makes sense. I also don't really like how he seems to be handling BFG on the last page. He questions her about something and kind of gives her a soft warning about borderline semantics argument (which usually scum focus on) but instead says he'll wait to make a firmer decision on her later in the game. I know this is line with what he said earlier about being able to read her WoTs as a town/scum tell, but it looks kind of like an easy reason to avoid giving a read on her until later. I also find it interesting looking back how he was the one who specifically responded to me about BFG in regards to me having a hard time reading her lately.

 

If one flips scum I wouldn't be that surprised if the other does too, in other words.

 

:-)

 

I understand, AJ.

 

But I'm not sure what you mean by the bold.  Scum likes to USE semantics - I like to call that out as a scum tendency.

 

As for the last part in blue, yikes.

 

 

The blue is a legitimate observation. Premature, maybe, but the way your post read to me it seemed like you were kind of soft-pushing BFG while also giving a reason why you weren't taking a hard stance on her yet. This is the type of behavior I expect between scum/scum. I'll pull your original post to show what I mean.

[Andrej]

 

Lol, never said I had a town or mafia read on Lazy or RTE, just that I liked/disliked their OP.

 

Yikes.  This is getting close to semantics.  When people are saying they "like this post by XYZ", or they "like XYZ's play this game", it is almost always attributed to a pro-town feeing.  If we simply thought it was funny or clever, a "lol" or smiley would have been used.  Or in Cory's case, about 12 gifs.  ;-)

 

But you're kinda backtracking here with a borderline semantic defense.  Not sure what to think of that.

 

As I said before, and Des has also mentioned since then, the key to scumhunting you is the mid-game WoT catchup reads post.  I'll abstain from having an opinion on you until then.

 

@Verb - this is what I was talking about.

 

You call out BFG here for what you say appears her to be using semantics as a method of defense. I can agree with you on the point that this is what scum like to focus on, whether in offense or defense.

 

Next bolded bit you're calling her out for backtracking but also say you aren't sure what to think of it and afterwards reiterate the fact that you'll wait to see more from her in a later part of the game before taking a solid stance.

 

So, like I said - you're soft pushing here without really committing and also providing yourself with an excuse as to why you aren't committing. I find this fairly common scum/scum behavior.

[Andrej]

@FishDyx

 

 

 

Pral's joke came across very forced to me. Dunno, could be a language thing or maybe I just don't get his sense of humor. Either way, it stood out and didn't really fit the flow of the thread imo.

 

That is because you do not have the reference. If you followed Real Genius mafia, you would have understood it. 

 

This was Pral's post in response to a very specific point that I made against him in the below wall.

 

Both of these posts were on pg 22 of the game.

 

Thank God Len is not in this game or he would be totally confused between Nyn and Leelou.

He would have etched in his mind that Nyn likes Spiderman and Matt Damon

 

This was the last post Pral made prior to him responding to me (pg 7)

 

The point I am bringing up here, and why he is listed a scum read, is because in the span of 15 pages he only found one point to address - one that was specifically towards him, without commenting on anything else that had happened up to that point. This shows me that he is following the game closely enough to see when he is mentioned but is refraining from really joining in the discussion.

 

I can see where you're coming from in regards to low content being null, but here Pral is answering to specific points but nothing else. Generally not a good sign imo.

[Nynaeve]

something leelou said last page bothers me. not about her but as a general thing that people do in mafia.

 

Looking to see if someone is on DM tells you nothing. I have the page open while at work, but that doesn't mean i get to read it. I often leave my computer, and whatever is open at the time, on overnight while im sleeping. But im not actually here.

 

Im pretty sure im not the only one in existence who does those sorts of things.

 

WRONG.

 

When you hover your mouse over someone's name is says what they are viewing and at what time they got to that page. What you say can easily be verified if your name appears there and it says you viewed X thread ten hours ago :P... aka you simply left the window open.  If it specifies a time that is like a couple of minutes ago it means that you are, in fact, viewing the thread in question.

 

Not to mention that the order of the names at the bottom of the page also indicates when you were last active in a way. IE, the names at the beginning of the list (aka the left) are the ones who did something more recently than the ones trailing on the right. Aka afk people trail to the right and people that are clicking stuff on the site are on the left.

 

Not loving this post. dice is not a newbie. I would expect him to know this.

 

 

 

Nyn

[dicetosser1]

goes to pm for spelling

 

slartibarfast

[dicetosser1]

actually nyn i have never tried it so i dont know how it works. only know people in games say they can see someone was on.

[Andrej]

 

something leelou said last page bothers me. not about her but as a general thing that people do in mafia.

 

Looking to see if someone is on DM tells you nothing. I have the page open while at work, but that doesn't mean i get to read it. I often leave my computer, and whatever is open at the time, on overnight while im sleeping. But im not actually here.

 

Im pretty sure im not the only one in existence who does those sorts of things.

 

WRONG.

 

When you hover your mouse over someone's name is says what they are viewing and at what time they got to that page. What you say can easily be verified if your name appears there and it says you viewed X thread ten hours ago :P... aka you simply left the window open.  If it specifies a time that is like a couple of minutes ago it means that you are, in fact, viewing the thread in question.

 

Not to mention that the order of the names at the bottom of the page also indicates when you were last active in a way. IE, the names at the beginning of the list (aka the left) are the ones who did something more recently than the ones trailing on the right. Aka afk people trail to the right and people that are clicking stuff on the site are on the left.

 

Not loving this post. dice is not a newbie. I would expect him to know this.

 

 

 

Nyn

 

To be fair I didn't know you could do that.

 

I also think it's somewhat of a minor point. He did say in a recent post that he had been catching up, which probably would explain why his name was closer to the left side of the list. Did you check this yourself to verify?

 

This seems like a bad reason to push someone.

[Cory Caboose]

dice is probably the watcher 

 

let's not lynch him

[Andrej]

[v]Verb[/v]

[Cory Caboose]

Alright, motor is turning from happy-go-lucky cory to dead serious cory

 

the REREAD begins

[Nynaeve]

To be fair I didn't know you could do that.

 

I also think it's somewhat of a minor point. He did say in a recent post that he had been catching up, which probably would explain why his name was closer to the left side of the list. Did you check this yourself to verify?

 

This seems like a bad reason to push someone.

 

 

i disagree. If he was indeed around why would he even bother going on about it not meaning a thing cause he always leaves the window open? He used it as a way to defend himself and I'm pointing out that it's moot. I'm not saying it's a HUGE point but it should be noted.

 

I don't know how long you've been a member on DM, AJ. But dice is ancient. 8 years, if not more.

 

 

Nyn

[Nynaeve]

Not sure what you mean me to verify. His name is down there. Looking at it now won't prove anything since he is looking at the thread at current... what with him replying.

 

 

 

Nyn

[Nynaeve]

something leelou said last page bothers me. not about her but as a general thing that people do in mafia.

 

Looking to see if someone is on DM tells you nothing. I have the page open while at work, but that doesn't mean i get to read it. I often leave my computer, and whatever is open at the time, on overnight while im sleeping. But im not actually here.

 

Im pretty sure im not the only one in existence who does those sorts of things.

 

 

actually nyn i have never tried it so i dont know how it works. only know people in games say they can see someone was on.

 

 

Actually dice, if you're uncertain about something and, as you say, you never tried it.... you might want to avoid making false statements and either check before you say it or not say it at all. Because it makes you look bad.

 

 

 

Nyn

[Andrej]

am on page 40 but quickly responding

 

 

BFG do you remember everything everyone says and who said it? cause if you do you're mind is a better grade of steel trap then mine.

 

looking at the quote you gave me of mish i remember it  i also remember thinking she was excited about the theme and "geeking out" as cory put it. I know i was the asame in Scooby Doo and Mortal Instruments.

 

 

I am really struggling with this game. I am in constant catch up mode cause most of the posting happens when i am at work. And at work i get maybe 2 mins every now and again to look at the thread. If im lucky. and then when i do post there is nothing for ages, eg i posted quickly at lunch yesterday, when i went to bed that night eight hours later there had been 22 posts. Only about 5 of these had substance.  I posted on page 34. I woke up at 5am and theres now 42 pages lol   Catching up again. Its driving me nuts cause i feel like im skimming and missing things.

 

And no im not tugging at heart strings, simply trying to explain my POV. But i will of course get accused of ATE   whatevs.

 

 

I didn't like Leelou's thing with Mish. It struck me wrong and like she knew something. The questions Des gave her were ones that were fairly easy to answer in a town manner. I think she is mafia. I may be wrong. But it is the one thing that has really stuck with me, so i am following it.

 

The bolded statement alone fits with how I view Dice's town meta. I've seen him numerous times as town make statements like this - when he locks onto someone being scum he is typically very firm with it, regardless of it is popular opinion.

 

Look at the RW for a recent example where DiceGOAT was born.

[Nynaeve]

And just as a general FYI, I just verified it that once a person is inactive on the site for 15+ minutes they disappear from the list completely. There, you learned something new :P

 

 

 

 

Nyn

[Leelou]

dice is probably the watcher 

 

let's not lynch him

 

If it wasn't for his claim, would you think he was town from his play? Since character claims are allowed, there are probably safe fake claims. 

[Leelou]

His reason to vote me came straight from Des. I haven't really seen much original from him. Yeah, he might have conviction, but it's over something that would make no sense. Discussing an observation does not mean I have inside knowledge. 

[ReleaseTheEvil]

Hrm. Alright. I've played with dice quite a few times and would be more shocked if his play was super active rather than the usual meta-lurky. But he's 'back' and apparently the Watcher. Not fond of day 1 claims. [unvote] Dice 

[ReleaseTheEvil]

I don't buy Pral's "I'm not active day 1" spiel. Pral is not new on the block here. Want to hear more from him but satisfied he at least gave some reads. 

 

Leelou congrats on the job. Hopefully less bitter game now  

[Nynaeve]

Unvote based on claim alone.

 

I still think dice is iffy, though, and FOS AJ for soft defending him and trying to discredit a legit point.

 

 

 

Nyn

[Cory Caboose]

 

dice is probably the watcher 

 

let's not lynch him

 

If it wasn't for his claim, would you think he was town from his play? Since character claims are allowed, there are probably safe fake claims. 

 

 

He's pretty firmly in my null pile but I don't have enough to have a firm read on him, but he's a claimed PR that gets night results so don't know how long he can do that dance if he's Mafia, and his character claim makes sense irt his role

 

Mass Effect Mafia guys: Did csarmi give you guys fakeclaims?