Robin Hobb's Farseer Trilogy

[the dude]

Well, since we've got this thing started with Martin, I thought there may be some (read: me) who may be interested in discussing some Hobb action up in here too.

 

Let's see... Things we could discuss...

 

-The Wit vs the Skill - compare/contrast?

 

-Fitz's charm as a character - The thing that I like best about FitzChivalry is how human he is. The guy makes mistakes. Often. Like, real often. But you can't help but love him anyway. He tries hard, you gotta give 'im that.

 

-Here's a good one: Is the Fool a man or a woman? I suspect she's a woman, but I'd like to hear anyone's thoughts on the matter.

 

That should be good to start, and please, anyone bring anything up that they think is worth discussing too.

 

Have at it!

[Silver]

can't stand it... it's like kick a man when he's down, then kick him again...

[the dude]

can't stand it... it's like kick a man when he's down' date=' then kick him again...[/quote']

 

what do you mean? can't stand the series?

[Serenity Maconar]

It wasn't a bad series. Killed some quality time while I was travelling. :)

[the dude]

myself, i like it more than the wheel of time, overall. i find it's a really well-written, original take on fantasy. i'm slightly disappointed not many people seem to be into discussing it.

 

maybe i need to throw out a specific starting idea. those who've read the series, and its sequels:

 

who thinks the Fool is actually a woman?

[True source]

This series is real good, I thought it was class anyway, the fool is definately a man in my opinion. The was homosexuality by the sounds of things because nobody sounded like they hadnt heard of it. It may be possible he has no set gender because he can polay a woman as well as a man, as well as the fact that he keeps saying he is different.

 

Serenity, by the way, I see that you are in an org, why dont you come along to the Band Of The Red Hand, You may enjoy it.

[the dude]

see, i'm of the opinion that the fool's a woman.

 

he goes to great pains to hide his body. there is the tattoo that she's got, but i'd say it's not just her back she's trying to hide.

 

as annoying as that character was, i think starling was right. the fool's a woman, and in love with fitz. but wise enough to know that it could never be, especially because fitz thinks she's a man.

 

i gotta dig out some of the later books to really find some good evidence. it's there.

 

she could be androgenous like you say, but i definitely lean towards her being a chick.

 

PS, thanks for posting! I was feeling forlorn that no one was hopping on this....

[True source]

Yeah, I definately see where you are coming from as well. Its hard to tell, Im sure also that the fool was in love with Fitz. You could do well in the band too if you joined... Your name isnt taken form The Big Lebowski is it?

[Guest Winespring Brother]

hmmmm, its always something to wonder about during the books, but ultimately the gender of the fool is completely unimportant, I think. The reason I say this is because Fitz dives into his body at the end of the books and could thus know everything about the fool, but he doesn't even comment on the fool's gender. This is because Fitz realises that it doesn't matter at all what gender the fool is, and if Fitz doesn't think it important I know i don't

[Alarwyn Liande]

I think Fool has no gender. He just... is. We see (at least later in the series (Fool's Fate)) that s/he is so very different from humans. Fool is not a human, so it's not important whether or not it's a woman or a man. The point of his/her existence is not to prduce offspring, but to make the Changer fullfill the profecied destiny.

 

Anyway, I don't think it's a matter of importance. I just love this series! :D

[Serenity Maconar]

Hmmm I remember thinking that was a possibility... But I think I concluded that he was a man in love with Fitz.

 

 

Thanks True Source, but I'm way too busy with the Orgs I have hehe

[the dude]

i see the point you guys make that it's a relatively secondary detail. more a point of interest, i think.

 

but, stubborn as i am, i will dig up the evidence to present.

 

well, here's one. before i go on here, i'll say that i've read these books actually more times than the wheel of time, so bear with me.

 

what was your guys' favorite of the 3 trilogies? while i'm tempted to say the first, the 3rd comes close. i couldn't get into the liveship books as much. i've only read those twice through, i think, if that. i just found the characters a lot less sympathetic than fitz. i found most of them just irritating. like malta. oh my god i hated that snotty little brat...

 

yeah, officially it's from the big lebowski. that's hands down my favorite movie, with the exception of "a year and a half in the life of metallica." but, well, the movie is really just a formalization of how i am anyway. watching walter and the dude is not that different from watching me and some of my buddies.

 

the band is for music and travel, right?

[Serenity Maconar]

I think the second was my favorite

 

That was what I found sort of odd about the trilogy was the way it was structured. Like, he died and then came back. :shock:

[True source]

There are music and travel threads there if you want to use them, they are used regularly actually!

 

The big Lebowski is my fav film to. Walter is a legend

 

"Jackie Treehorn draws a lot of water in this town...you dont draw s*** Lebowski!"

 

Class quote.

 

Yeah I think the fools gender is not important and that point made about Fitz delving into him and being able to know all about him confirms it for me, not to mention s/he has a massive lifespan to.

 

As for him dying he passed on himself into his wolf and let his body die, as far as I can rememebr Burrich healed it and persuaded him to go back into it, this may suggest that he gave over his soul to the wolf?

[Kaznen]

The Fool was a he. In Fool's Errand the Fool tell Fitz his real name, Beloved, and then says, "I can call you Beloved and you can call me Fitz." But more on that later.

 

In the last book the Pale Woman (who is a White like the Fool) was definitly a woman. And she was taking about when she first met Beloved and kept saying "he" then strips him naked and keeps saying he.

 

Later, when Fitz returns for his friend the Pale Woman asked if he had the courage to call Beloved Fitz like the "brother husbands" in Beloved's homeland did/do.

 

As far as the series goes the Farseer was awsome. I couln't get half way through Ship of Magic and the Tawney Man Trilogy was even better the first one. Their were times when I was crying, I'm man enough to admit that. Like when Nighteyes died and Fool left for good, and when Fitz and Fool had their falling out.

 

And I thought, "What do you think of your bastard now, Father?" was the best line in fantasy EVER!!

[Kadere]

Alright, because of all the good reviews on this sight about the Farseer Trilogy I decided I'd try reading it. I've finished the first book, and am about to start the second. And I've got to say the first book was a SNOOZER! Nothing happened.... ever. I read a few reviews on the internet and most of them said that the first book is kind of a bore because she's simply building the character, but that the second book is probably the best Robin Hobb has ever written, so I decided to get it even though the first book, in my opinion, was very slow. I'm hoping the rest of the series actually has things happen, and that MAYBE some assassinations are done without the use of poision.

[Alarwyn Liande]

The first book IS much slower than the following ones, probably because Fitz is still a child and doesn't get to action until later. I still loved it, because many things that happen in that book are very important considering what happens after that.

In the second book Fitz gets most of his depth as a character when he meets Nighteyes, and that's the most important single thing in the whole series, in my opinion.

[True source]

Meeting Nighteyes is perhaps the most important thing because it shapes Fitz's character throughout the rest of the series.

[Lih-Lyh]

FitzChivalry is quirky but as a human can be, and though the pacing is slow for some it’s always felt right for me, especially when he’s older in the Tawny Man series, which is my favorite. I know it sounds blasphemous to write in a WoT forum, but it’s how I feel.

 

As to whether Fool was female or male, I think he could be all aspects, as he said of Amber is a facet of him, just as Lord Golden is. What defines the genders anyway, are the differences merely physical? I think Hobb captures the love between Fitz and Fool so spectacularly. Overall the novels have been good for my heart, and have had a tremendous impact influencing my views.

 

My first Aes Sedai was called Amber 8)

[Kadere]

Yeah, I'm a little over half way through Royal Assassin now, and it's MUCH better then the first one.

[the dude]

it's not the same kind of fantasy as robert jordan. it does go at a different pace. i wouldn't say it's slower, exactly. i remember someone saying that the series has no meat to it. that's just not true. not referring to anyone here, mind you, it just came to mind.

 

but it's not as flashy as a lot of fantasy. there's no fireballs, for one thing. not very much overt magic at all. it's all mind stuff. well, it gets a bit deeper than that, more than a bit, but i won't say anything for the sake of someone who's never read the series. i don't want to ruin anything.

 

it's a much more character-driven series than most fantasy, i think. fantasy tends to be event-based, and deal with how characters deal with events. these books are much more about how events evolve due to characters' actions. fitz, in particular. he has a true talent for sticking his head in the hornets' nest, and that's the impetus for much, if not most, of what happens in the series.

 

while the first book is very much about ground work for later books, well, it has a killer climax, and the buildup isn't that bad either. events move more quickly in later books, but i never noticed that the first was particularly slow-going. i found it to be less so than one or two of Jordan's later volumes, honestly.

[Msnformd]

Huh. I actually liked the LiveShip trigology better, than the Farseer sequence. Perhaps because I'm a woman, and respond to strong female characters, in spite of their annoying flaws. Although the Tawney Man sequence was also very good. But Fitz always bugged me as a primary hero - always making excuses, whining about what a hard life he's had - come'on, Fitz: get over it already!

 

I think the Fool, although outwardly male, may have been hermaphroditic (chromosomes of both sexes). If that even applies in Hobb's universe. Or, gender may be irrelevant - the last books suggest that the Fool's and the Pale woman's origins are different enough from the rest of the human population in the story, to be considered other than human. Or, as the point was suggested above, the gender identity means less than his ability to love another human being. Although the form that love might take gave Fitz the heebie jeebies, and caused their fallout. Fitz was confusing sexual love with spiritual love, but later on, got it figured out. So, in the end, the Fool's gender mattered only to serve as a plot device.

 

My two cents worth.

[zoobooz]

I recently just read the Liveship Traders after reading the Fitz trilogies a while back and it certainly had it's moments, but very slow starting out. Dear god Malta... It was an alright series I would probably read again, but I wish it had more Brashen and end result Wintrow than the whiny priest you are stuck with for 85% of the trilogy.

 

The Fitz series though, I loved 'em! No doubt was there a more shaping event on Fitz than when he met Nighteyes, although it was tough to see him in the Tawny Man series in his later life. As the dude said this series was character driven and I enjoyed watching Hobb develop then.

 

As for Fool...I was sure he was a male after reading the Fitz trilogies, although the Liveship Traders did implant a little bit of doubt in there with "it" masquerading around as Amber. The closest to an actual revealing is probably what Kaznen said. I suppose though, we shall never know.

[Talya]

I have just read the Assassins Apprentice and have now just started the Royal Assassin.

 

It was hard going for the first couple of chapters and then I really got into it and really enjoy it. I am looking forward to the rest of the series. It is a lot different to other books I have read (unfortunately not as many as i would like), and I really like it written in the first person.

 

I hadn't really considered what sex the Fool was but in the back of my mind I think i thought he was a he.

[Kaznen]

Has anyone read her new book, Shaman's Crossing? When I saw it I wondered if it was in the same world and if the fool would be a charactor under a differnet guise. What I read on Amazon.com the main character sounded a little like Fitz.