[Advanced] Red Wedding Mafia - Post Game, MakersMark

[Nolder]

Also, while I realize this might come off as rude or snarky, Cory has played a lot more DM mafia games lately than you have. If anything, he has a better idea of the climate around here than you do.

Don't know what this has to do with anything but you're entitled to your opinion I guess.

As a side note in 2014 I've been in I think 5 games on DM and modded 2. I don't exactly keep track of what other people do but I don't think Cory has been in that many has he? And even if he has it's not like it's some kind of contest.

 

Just being oddly divisive here.

[Nolder]

 

 

Nol trying to feign obliviousness is just one more thing to add to the pile on him. Blech.

Not sure whether you're being a dumbass or a jackass tonight.

I guess we'll split the difference and just settle on ass.

 

 

Reported.

 

To who?

[Red2111]

if it wasn't close to the deadline and i was 75% sure i wouldn't be up in time to change my vote to prevent a mislynch; i'd be up for starting a train on Nol or Krak right about now.  

 

i'd also like to note that since people are 2nd guessing my train and Cory decided to actually start player, AJ has pulled a Mish and he's gone into lurkdom as well.  perhaps they saw what happened with Mishtress and decided to take a feather from their book and imitate the play as a way to give themselves an out off my lynch without getting suspicion?

 

 

Nol OTOH is tunneling a little too hard now.  he admits he's tunneling and says that he will stop tunneling tomorrow.  he's been on and actively posting for a few hours now.  he even admits to misunderstanding the game mechanics and that its altered the way he views the entire game.  and any time someone asks why he's not scum hunting "idk, i'm getting all deer int eh head lights cause of whose in the game"  (Leelou asked him this, and i've asked him this)

 

 

why then is he waiting until i'm lynched to stop tunneling?  wouldn't this activity on the game be better spent in the way that cory is doing since you've seen something to change your entire concept of the game?  wouldn't your energies be better spent analyzing other lynch possibilities rather than continuing to try and attack and discredit everyone who comes out against my lynch.

 

 

to me, this reads less like you're sure i'm scum; and more like a scumster trying desperately to get a PR lynched so they dont have to waste a NK on me.  and i dont buy the "meek-doe-eyed-novice" excuse you're giving for not acutlaly scum hunting.  

 

meek and nol don't go in the same sentence together and i've never known you to be shy about games.

[Red2111]

that said, drunk Red is now tipsy tiered Red and is going to bed

 

its 4am, and i haven't gotten much sleep this past week.

[Cory Caboose]

i'd also like to note that since people are 2nd guessing my train and Cory decided to actually start player, AJ has pulled a Mish and he's gone into lurkdom as well.  perhaps they saw what happened with Mishtress and decided to take a feather from their book and imitate the play as a way to give themselves an out off my lynch without getting suspicion?

 

Are you actually serious?

 

The reason you are being lynched is that you have 12 people in your Mafia circle and nobody but WombDes AFAIK in your town circle.

If you are a townie, you are a terrible townie and you deserve your lynch twenty-fold. Do better.

[Nolder]

You seem to think that a role HAS to vet itself that same night or something. Dunno where you got that from. Any role claim can vet itself at any time.

 

Say someone starts getting run up tomorrow, and it turns out they're the Cop. Well then, in that scenario Red would be expected to protect the Cop. If the Cop died and Red didn't, obviously flags would go up. Wouldn't guarantee her as scum, since yeah obv scum roles that can tamper with NA's exist.

 

BUT.

 

If the scum DIDN'T have a RB or something, they'd either be forced to shoot elsewhere, or kill Red so that she doesn't protect the Cop all game. Or they could YOLO and try shooting the Cop, which wouldn't really change much. The point is, Red DOES have the potential to vet her role if she's telling the truth.

So what you're saying is we should just leave her alive and see what happens.

That's kind of retarded tbh. You should almost never take the role into consideration.

Doc or cop yeah ok, MAYBE. BG, nah. You want to judge the PERSON not the ROLE.

Mafia can false claim any number of things that might be sorta kinda maybe useful.

If you just let people go based on their claims you're never going to lynch anyone except people who are stupid enough to claim vanilla (no offense Yates).

 

And tbh, it wouldn't necessarily be THAT crazy for Red to stuff a mafia kill N1. It would be impressive to say the least, but she would have a (let's assume we end up lynching town today) 1/12 chance of choosing the right person. Then it would just depend on the setup Darthe chose and how much role manipulation they had. I wouldn't say those are astronomically low odds.

Actually the odds aren't 1/12, I think they're more like 1/36 or somesuch.

I am bad at math and I may not be right but I know your number is wrong.

It's not dependent on just Red but on the killer as well. You have to take into account them BOTH choosing the same person.

 

Of course there are other factors to take into consideration as well such as multiple killers, roleblockers, bus drivers, and of course the human element. But mathematically the choice is not as simple as you make it out to be.

 

And yes Nol, were Red to guess correctly and stuff a kill, or say protect a PR cause the scum derped and thought she was lying or something, then her role WOULD clear itself. Wouldn't make much difference, since she'd be dead at that point, but the point remains.

Well if you want to put it that way, we can also "clear" her by lynching her.

[Cory Caboose]

AJ went to sleep, by the way. It's 5AM.

 

Out of cares for your alignment - I'll try to wake up by EOD but I am in severe need of sleep. If you die and flip town I will not miss you for what you've "accomplished this phase" - thanks for leaving behind the entire game as a Mafia suspect.

[Cory Caboose]

Through page 28 ATM in case I forget tomorrow.

[Nolder]

Nol OTOH is tunneling a little too hard now.  he admits he's tunneling and says that he will stop tunneling tomorrow.  he's been on and actively posting for a few hours now.  he even admits to misunderstanding the game mechanics and that its altered the way he views the entire game.  and any time someone asks why he's not scum hunting "idk, i'm getting all deer int eh head lights cause of whose in the game"  (Leelou asked him this, and i've asked him this)

Dunno why you'd expect this to change with the passage of a few hours.

 

 

why then is he waiting until i'm lynched to stop tunneling?  wouldn't this activity on the game be better spent in the way that cory is doing since you've seen something to change your entire concept of the game?  wouldn't your energies be better spent analyzing other lynch possibilities rather than continuing to try and attack and discredit everyone who comes out against my lynch.

I don't think so.

Your death is pretty much guaranteed at this point because of the special rule Darthe has in place.

Even if he didn't though you know how DM lynches go, if you're the highest train close to deadline you're as good as dead most of the time.

 

Given that, I'd rather use this time to discuss the pros and cons of your death with your supporters before the flip and then use the night to analyze and reread which tend to be a more private and quiet process.

 

to me, this reads less like you're sure i'm scum; and more like a scumster trying desperately to get a PR lynched so they dont have to waste a NK on me.  and i dont buy the "meek-doe-eyed-novice" excuse you're giving for not acutlaly scum hunting.  

 

meek and nol don't go in the same sentence together and i've never known you to be shy about games.

Ok, well I'll challenge you with the same thought game you challenge others with.

What happens when I flip town and you're wrong about all that?

[hazelkrs1]

 

 

 

Nol trying to feign obliviousness is just one more thing to add to the pile on him. Blech.

Not sure whether you're being a dumbass or a jackass tonight.

I guess we'll split the difference and just settle on ass.

 

 

Reported.

 

To who?

 

 

 

uh... the mod? Who else?

[Nolder]

triple post

[Nolder]

Nol OTOH is tunneling a little too hard now.  he admits he's tunneling and says that he will stop tunneling tomorrow.  he's been on and actively posting for a few hours now.  he even admits to misunderstanding the game mechanics and that its altered the way he views the entire game.  and any time someone asks why he's not scum hunting "idk, i'm getting all deer int eh head lights cause of whose in the game"  (Leelou asked him this, and i've asked him this)

Dunno why you'd expect this to change with the passage of a few hours.

 

 

why then is he waiting until i'm lynched to stop tunneling?  wouldn't this activity on the game be better spent in the way that cory is doing since you've seen something to change your entire concept of the game?  wouldn't your energies be better spent analyzing other lynch possibilities rather than continuing to try and attack and discredit everyone who comes out against my lynch.

I don't think so.

Your death is pretty much guaranteed at this point because of the special rule Darthe has in place.

Even if he didn't though you know how DM lynches go, if you're the highest train close to deadline you're as good as dead most of the time.

 

Given that, I'd rather use this time to discuss the pros and cons of your death with your supporters before the flip and then use the night to analyze and reread which tend to be a more private and quiet process.

 

to me, this reads less like you're sure i'm scum; and more like a scumster trying desperately to get a PR lynched so they dont have to waste a NK on me.  and i dont buy the "meek-doe-eyed-novice" excuse you're giving for not acutlaly scum hunting.  

 

meek and nol don't go in the same sentence together and i've never known you to be shy about games.

Ok, well I'll challenge you with the same thought game you challenge others with.

What happens when I flip town and you're wrong about all that?

[Nolder]

triple post

[Nolder]

 

 

 

 

Nol trying to feign obliviousness is just one more thing to add to the pile on him. Blech.

Not sure whether you're being a dumbass or a jackass tonight.

I guess we'll split the difference and just settle on ass.

 

 

Reported.

 

To who?

 

uh... the mod? Who else?

 

You mean Darthe?

[hazelkrs1]

So what you're saying is we should just leave her alive and see what happens.

That's kind of retarded tbh. You should almost never take the role into consideration.

Doc or cop yeah ok, MAYBE. BG, nah. You want to judge the PERSON not the ROLE.

Mafia can false claim any number of things that might be sorta kinda maybe useful.

If you just let people go based on their claims you're never going to lynch anyone except people who are stupid enough to claim vanilla (no offense Yates).

I just can't even believe what I'm reading here. You should never take a role claim into consideration? Are you freaking joking man? Good lord Nolder you really have such a skewed view of how this game should be played. Holy Christ.

 

I am NOT saying every claim should be believed. In fact I'm one of the biggest opponents of that mentality. I HATE when people automatically buy a Cop or Doc claim because there's no CC.

 

No, I'm saying that you should DEFINITELY take role claims into consideration if they can possibly vet themselves. This is just smart play.

 

And I'm also NOT saying you shouldn't judge the player. You should def judge the player, and the circumstances in which they claimed. In this case I don't see anything exceptionally scummy about Red. She hasn't made a lot of sense so far, and as Cory pointed out fos'ing almost everyone in the game doesn't make her look good, however I'm not seeing anything which could only have come from scum!Red

 

Actually the odds aren't 1/12, I think they're more like 1/36 or somesuch.

I am bad at math and I may not be right but I know your number is wrong.

It's not dependent on just Red but on the killer as well. You have to take into account them BOTH choosing the same person.

 

Of course there are other factors to take into consideration as well such as multiple killers, roleblockers, bus drivers, and of course the human element. But mathematically the choice is not as simple as you make it out to be.

 

Nope.

 

Whomever the mafia choose to kill doesn't have any actual bearing on the probability of the save. They will choose one of those 12 townies. If Red is a BG obviously she wouldn't have any knowledge of whom they were picking. However, they will still end up picking one out of that group, since scum tend to not like killing themselves.

 

See they are not shared events, the kill and the save. They're separate events. The kill doesn't really have a percentage shot of hitting the "right" target. Scum will target who they target. At that point the Protector role would have a 1/12 shot of choosing the same target they did, and a 11/12 shot of protecting someone that needed no protection.

[hazelkrs1]

 

 

 

 

 

Nol trying to feign obliviousness is just one more thing to add to the pile on him. Blech.

Not sure whether you're being a dumbass or a jackass tonight.

I guess we'll split the difference and just settle on ass.

 

 

Reported.

 

To who?

 

uh... the mod? Who else?

 

You mean Darthe?

 

 

No the Queen of England

[Nynaeve]

Caught up.

 

 

 

I didn't realize that you win the game by flooding the thread with a bunch of memes and inside jokes.  I thought we won the game by eliminating the mafia.  My bad.

 

 

Never seen you do the sarcastic hurt puppy look. Odd.

 

 

The hydras aren't any more or less likely to be scum than anyone else. Look for scum, hydras or no.

 

Agreed.

 

 

I'm so town this game my scumhunting gonads are about to burst from too much WIM
 

 

Ewww. Just ewwww.  >.<

 

 

Scum list:

 

Mynd

Nol

Lenlo

Jack

Krak

and... Nynkat cause there's too much sausage on this list

whoops forgot about Dawn

 

Bout to do this funky thing to assign points for errone tho, will post the results later on

 

LMAO  I'm flattered.

 

 

 

One of the most important parts of "scumhunting" is having a solid town basing compiling of likely-townies and mechanically cleared townies guiding the direction and POEing potential Mafia. Towns that are scattered, have no focus and no solid foundation will always be taken advantage of.

 

If you do not control the game and the narrative, the Mafia will.

 

Live together or die alone.

Alright Ben Franklin.

 

 

^I felt compelled to point out that Len made a funny.

 

 

No biggy Darthe. Figured id just revote instead of all that extra stuff. Either way my vote gets to where it should :P

 

We aren't ashamed of our relationship Len.

Hydra and proud.
 

Im so alone ;_;

 

This is like the third time you go all woe about having no one to talk to. Can't help but feel you're fibbing and you get a kick out of whining about it on thread. So..... NOTED :P

 

 

 

 

To sum up, I still feel the same as I did before. Tress' claim hasn't done anything to change my mind. She gets a cookie though for her efforts on trying to clean up the mess.

 

As far as Mynd goes. I've seen him bring up foolish theories before to see who bites. So his whole hydra theory deal doesn't read as scummy to me. What I don't like is his unvote on Mish/Tress after the reveal. I recall him saying that the only thing that doesn't sit right with him as far as Red goes is her role claim. But that alone is hardly enough of a reason to vote for her. Agreed.  But now he unvotes a person he pointed out as scummy simply because of a role reveal? Why is it that in this instance a role reveal is sufficient to tip over the scales?  Fishiness noted.

 

 

 

 

Nyn

[hazelkrs1]

So... CFD on Mynd then Nyn? I'll even take you off my scum list!

 

[Nolder]

I am NOT saying every claim should be believed.

This seems to be exactly what you're doing though.

 

No, I'm saying that you should DEFINITELY take role claims into consideration if they can possibly vet themselves. This is just smart play.

Point in case. Someone says they're a vig you're like ok vet it. Meanwhile you're gonna get a SK knife in the back.

Who the **** cares if they can vet the role or not? Even the best of roles like cop can be faked by really clever players.

If you are suspicious of someone those suspicions don't disappear when they claim a role so why would you let them go?

Doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

 

And I'm also NOT saying you shouldn't judge the player. You should def judge the player, and the circumstances in which they claimed. In this case I don't see anything exceptionally scummy about Red. She hasn't made a lot of sense so far, and as Cory pointed out fos'ing almost everyone in the game doesn't make her look good, however I'm not seeing anything which could only have come from scum!Red

So she hasn't made a lot of sense and she's FOS'd almost the entire game but that's not scummy.

Great logic you've got there bro. If you're trying to say you have some kind of unexplainable gut feeling about Red and that's why you're defending her fine. But don't try to pretend like it makes sense because at best you're just making an educated guess based on emotions and feelings.

 

Whomever the mafia choose to kill doesn't have any actual bearing on the probability of the save. They will choose one of those 12 townies. If Red is a BG obviously she wouldn't have any knowledge of whom they were picking. However, they will still end up picking one out of that group, since scum tend to not like killing themselves.

 

See they are not shared events, the kill and the save. They're separate events. The kill doesn't really have a percentage shot of hitting the "right" target. Scum will target who they target. At that point the Protector role would have a 1/12 shot of choosing the same target they did, and a 11/12 shot of protecting someone that needed no protection.

Look I'm not a math guy so we can go nuh uh/uh huh all night but I'm positive you're wrong.

You've even hinted at that fact yourself by citing that they're separate events.

Red's options are 1/17 while mafia's 1/12. There is a chance that Red will protect mafia while, as you said, mafia don't kill themselves. I can't vouch that my numbers are the best way to express the chances here but I know 1/12 is not the correct answer.

[Nolder]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nol trying to feign obliviousness is just one more thing to add to the pile on him. Blech.

Not sure whether you're being a dumbass or a jackass tonight.

I guess we'll split the difference and just settle on ass.

 

 

Reported.

 

To who?

 

uh... the mod? Who else?

 

You mean Darthe?

 

 

No the Queen of England

 

I just want to be clear who exactly is going to be laughing at you tomorrow.

[_CLOUD]

*Sigh* It appears that I have been wrong about MishTress. No mafia would claim VT in this situation.

##Unvote Tommy. Vote Red

 

 

Oh and Mynd...

 

[_CLOUD]

I believe this is right.

 

Official Bloody Vote Count:

Crayjay (1/10): Dice

Mistress (5/10): NyanCat, Red, X, Jack, Desbat

Red (9/10): Dawn, Nol, Tommy, Yates, Halleeloujah, Verbalina, Krak, Len, Megaloud

Cloud (1/10): Mistress

Mynd (1/10): AJ

 

Not Voting (2/19):

Zen, Mynd

[michellem]

##unvote

##vote Mistress

 

 

Listen, no matter how you look at it, we are the best lynch today. A vanilla is better to loose than a potential PR. If Red is mafia, you'll find out. There are guanrateed to be some investigative roles, wich none has brought up as an option for finding her out. Sooner or later someone will check her. Mostly everyone in the game has commented on Tress and me. Cloud, Des, Nol has all posted recently, you guys move over to Mistress and we'll be the leading train and even if it isn't majority, with Darthe's rules we'll be the lynch. It's the logical way to go.

 

 

 

 

 

 

also i think im going to ##vote tommy the pressure they (tommy and crayjay) are putting on dawn looks off. It could be they just relish in being rude but i think they want her to crack and sell her self as scum in a emotional response to warrant an easy lynch. 

 

This is such BS. The easiest lynch would have been us. I'm easily the easiest player to get to emotionally crack in this game. So this reason for a vote on Tommy is total Bs.

 

 

Sure, the scum have fake claims, but none of those claims are going to be Rob or Kaitlin Stark, right? Those fake claims will likely be tertiary characters from the game......LIKE LITTLE SMALL JON.

No. Not right. Not even close to right. Darth comes from mafiascum. At MS, we save major characters for fake claims. In Ghostbusters Mafia, for example, Peter AND Ray were fake claims. In DC Comics mafia, Bruce Wayne was a fake claim. Bottom line, don't read too much into flavor. Games go sideways when you do it. I will happily lynch anyone that suggests a lynch based on flavor going forward.
 

As I've already said, I'm not "rustled" about being today's lynch. In my experience when I've been run up D1 you spend too much time thereafter unproductively trying to recover. I think it's a bit rude to lynch the bride on her own wedding day, but as we're vanilla town it's no great loss, and all kinds of good info for tomorrow.

Guys. Seriously. It's only cool to premature claim if your name is Yates or it's within your first 5 posts. Did you talk to Mish before barfing up that claim all over the thread?

 

 

 

1: This is DM mafia and at such you can't go with rules from other sites.

 

2. I suggested claiming to Tress before I went to bed last night. I would have done it myself, but like I said I had major DM problems and I wasn't gonna try and force my access again.

 

We aren't ashamed of our relationship Len.

Hydra and proud.

Just realized Dice still has his joke vote parked on Crayjay after town reading us later. Sketchy.

 

You'll never be as awesome as MisTress, FYI.

 

Finished with audit. Alright so 8 hours left. Lot less time than I thought we had.

 

Altho we've gotten a bit better at DM with securing last minute lynches, it IS the weekend now, meaning securing a lynch on anyone other than Red or Mishtress is highly unlikely.

 

##Unvote, ##Vote Mishtress. Personally I think they're town as well, but at the very least that's only risking a VT, instead of a protective PR.

 

Which reminds me of something. I think it was Lenlo that said the Doc might protect well or Roleblockers or something or w/e.... but all that is missing the point. Red "vetting" herself would mean she DIED instead of a diff PR. It's literally the only use her role has, and it has the added benefit of showing that she was telling the truth. If however, a different PR claimed, and that PR died that night and Mish didn't, well then yeah she'd obviously be under a heap of suspicion. Doesn't mean she'd be definite scum, as it could have been a RB or something, but it would def lend more support to her lynch.

 

The point is, she would possibly have the ability to vet herself and make use of her role at the same time which could help town.

 

Lynching her today would be a #FullDarthe move. You never go Full Darthe.

 

Bolded: Uhm, what?

 

 

 

 

Also, for the record...

 

I haven't been lurking on purpose. I had one day I stepped away because I was in a foul mood and I know how easily that bleeds over into the game for me. I didn't even read the thread; I was playing Sims. When I came back that evening, I realized I'd completly forgotten my frontpage blog, and the time I was meaning to use on the game, went away to that. Yesterday morning I did what I could before going out. When I came home, DM was being terribly difficult, as I said when I finally got a page to load long enough for me to write a reply.

[Nynaeve]

So, you vote yourself saying you are the best lynch for today. But then you backtrack to clarify that you weren't lurking.

 

Heh.

 

 

 

Nyn

[Nolder]

##Unvote

 

##Vote Mish/Tress

 

I don't agree that it's the logical way to go but you've definitely earned it by self voting.