[Advanced] Red Wedding Mafia - Post Game, MakersMark

[Yates]

FWIW, I don't get your claim Yates, but besides that you seem town, so you're still in a superposition of all possible alignments imo.  Slight skew towards town maybe.

What part don't you get? The "vanilla" or the "town?" I can explain either if required. Or is it that you don't know who Tytos Blackwood is because you only watch the show? And btw that's perfectly fine because I only watch the show myself.

[WWWwombat]

Anyway, I'ma let some other people get in on this.

[Songstress]

 

 

Notice the logically fallacious D2 associative reads that are being set up here:

 

 

1.  Wombat scum implies Dawn town.

2.  Wombat scum implies Red town.

3.  Wombat flips town.

4.  Oh well I was wrong about Wombat so I must have been wrong about Dawn/Red

 

Associative, schmassosiative.  You're my strongest read ATM.  Without going back and doing a full re-read or a bunch of ISOs, this is what I've got, mostly gut impressions but it's legit.

 

 

That's kind of the point.  You don't really have any strong reads that aren't based on the assumption that I'm scum.  You also haven't explained why you find my actions that you've highlighted scummy.

 

 

No time right now, kthx.

 

And while I'm late to work already let me note this:

 

In no way is it logical to infer that my read on Dawn is subject to my read on you.  In fact, just the opposite.  I think if you are mafia, you're more likely to defend Town!Dawn than Scum!Dawn, but nowhere did I say or infer that I thought she could be scum if you were town.  The fact that I think she's town reinforces my scum read on you a bit, because I don't know that TownBat would be as likely to defend a new player so strongly.  She's past the D1 noob pass.  Nobody was building a train on her.   Let her learn from the FOS'ing.

[WWWwombat]

 

FWIW, I don't get your claim Yates, but besides that you seem town, so you're still in a superposition of all possible alignments imo.  Slight skew towards town maybe.

What part don't you get? The "vanilla" or the "town?" I can explain either if required. Or is it that you don't know who Tytos Blackwood is because you only watch the show? And btw that's perfectly fine because I only watch the show myself.

 

 

I get the claim.  I just don't get why you did it.  I sorta had a similar reaction to Red, but I didn't see a need to make a big deal out of it.  On the surface, your claim seems like either selfish town play or risky scum play.  Both fit your MO, but I think there's another layer I'm missing.  Anyway, peace.

[Tommyrod]

Can't help but note that Red has not responded to me since I proved she's making up nonsense. She appears afraid of discussing Dawn.

[Yates]

I sorta had a similar reaction to Red, but I didn't see a need to make a big deal out of it.

Do you see how the bold makes your reaction not similar at all?

 

Perhaps my intent was to drop the claim to see who would attempt to make a federal case out of a VT claim??

[Yates]

Can't help but note that Red has not responded to me since I proved she's making up nonsense. She appears afraid of discussing Dawn.

In fairness she's getting piled on pretty soundly right now due to her inability to substantiate her actions in a satisfactory manner to MANY individuals, myself among them.

[Tommyrod]

Doesn't change the fact she's outright lying and skewing verbal diarrhea :P

[Red2111]

 

why shouldn't i question something that i see as being a quesitonable move.  the claim itself is not indicative of the alignemnt, no.  but the reaction to being questioned about it can be.

 

its like Schrödinger's cat 

 

until i question it, the act itself is both scummy and not scummy.  i only find out which itis when i open the box and in this case i open the box by questioning it.

 

You are skirting the fundamental question once again - what makes it a "questionable move?" By your current logic EVERY STATEMENT is "like Schrödinger's cat." Also, I don't think that means what you think it means - but that's besides the point.

 

 

 1st - male sibling?

 

2nd - nah i understand what the expement meant. and no the statement "By your current logic EVERY STATEMENT is "like Schrödinger's cat."" is wrong.  its more like "By your current logic EVERY PLAYER is "like Schrödinger's cat.""  and to me they are.  right now, every player in this game is essentially Schrödinger's Cat still in its tightly shut up box.  They exist both int he state of being scum and being town.  its only by questioning them on game play and getting information on them that i'm able to determine if the cat is dead or alive.

 

3rd - i answered this, the fact that you claimed with no pressure at all on you, thats what makes it questionable.

 

 

 

I sorta had a similar reaction to Red, but I didn't see a need to make a big deal out of it.

Do you see how the bold makes your reaction not similar at all?

 

Perhaps my intent was to drop the claim to see who would attempt to make a federal case out of a VT claim??

 

 

its less the role and more the how/when you claimed dude.

 

 

 

Can't help but note that Red has not responded to me since I proved she's making up nonsense. She appears afraid of discussing Dawn.

In fairness she's getting piled on pretty soundly right now due to her inability to substantiate her actions in a satisfactory manner to MANY individuals, myself among them.

 

 

that and the discussion with him was feelign more like a distraction (with him tryign to give me rope to hang myself with) and wasn't helpign with scum hunting.  eveything that i could say about the situation has been said and to continue the circle jerk was pointless. 

 

 

hence ---> :flammingsword:

[Red2111]

Doesn't change the fact she's outright lying and skewing verbal diarrhea :P

 

 

is that an LD claim or just another cry for my attention?

[_CLOUD]

 

Notice the logically fallacious D2 associative reads that are being set up here:

 

 

1.  Wombat scum implies Dawn town.

2.  Wombat scum implies Red town.

3.  Wombat flips town.

4.  Oh well I was wrong about Wombat so I must have been wrong about Dawn/Red

 

Associative, schmassosiative.  You're my strongest read ATM.  Without going back and doing a full re-read or a bunch of ISOs, this is what I've got, mostly gut impressions but it's legit.

 

 

Totes legit brah!

 

 

I would have gotten a town read on Yates only because he claimed VT with his opening post but I liked his play against Red as well. It's a good way to kickstart a game with a lot of WIFOM and it limits the possibilities of the player because it fixes his role in place. This is also the reason why it is an incredibly risky move for the mafia to make with not a lot of gain.

[Tommyrod]

 

 

Doesn't change the fact she's outright lying and skewing verbal diarrhea :P

 

is that an LD claim or just another cry for my attention?

[Red2111]

 

 

I would have gotten a town read on Yates only because he claimed VT with his opening post but I liked his play against Red as well. It's a good way to kickstart a game with a lot of WIFOM and it limits the possibilities of the player because it fixes his role in place. This is also the reason why it is an incredibly risky move for the mafia to make with not a lot of gain.

 

 

green - explain, becuase i dont agree.

 

if the scum claims it and has a NA yes its risky because a tracker or watcher could see them visiting someone (to which they counter, yeah i lied cause i didnt' want to reveal and hurt the town, i'm actually *insert really good power role* lawl)

 

there is such a thing as nilla scum.  how is claiming nilla town incredibly risky for them in this case?

 

 

it kickstarts the game, but to me it doesnt LOCK TOWN a player for doing so.  the WIFOM it creates is double edged, and WIFOM is not always good for the town, even when its created by a townie.

[Yates]

1st - male sibling?

If you are not familiar with the "cool story bro" meme then that's on you.

 

3rd - i answered this, the fact that you claimed with no pressure at all on you, thats what makes it questionable.

WHYYYYY???!!! WHY does a no pressure VT claim require scrutiny? What could you POSSIBLY hope to achieve??

[Red2111]

  

 

3rd - i answered this, the fact that you claimed with no pressure at all on you, thats what makes it questionable.

WHYYYYY???!!! WHY does a no pressure VT claim require scrutiny? What could you POSSIBLY hope to achieve??

 

 

once again, the role you claimed is besides the point.  my focus for quesitoning you over this is why you claimed at all when you did.

 

 

it diserves pressure becuase i've always questioned such moves (in fact, as i recall, people used to get lynched over such reveals often).  when has it become practice not to question a reveal that comes out of no where?   to me, a reveal with no pressure looks like someone trying to lay cover for furture scumminess, so that when people start casing them they can use the early reveal as a paper sheild.

 

 

as for hoping to achieve.  starting to get a baseline for whether i think you're scum or not, getting you active in game aside from posting spam, helping to sort out the WIFOM you just created, helping to move the game firmly past joke phase by focusing on game-related stuff.

[Yates]

there is such a thing as nilla scum.  how is claiming nilla town incredibly risky for them in this case?

By virtue of being scum you are - by definition - NOT vanilla. You can be a "goon" with no abilities outside of the ability to NK but that's still not vanilla and you would still be watchable/trackable. The "watchable/trackable" part is what makes the claim risky for scum. Plus I'm now locked in to my VT claim. I can't easily justify changing that claim to "*insert really good power role*" later without a HUGE amount of provable information.

 

Okay. Now let me tell you why I've been questioning your motives.

 

I claimed VT in thread on Day 1. As scum, a VT claim pigeon holes how I can play my hand. It also removes my "outs" if I ever get run up. I've already "claimed" so why wait to hammer? Conversely, your focusing on a VT claim is like a role fish. What if I'm a Doctor, Vig, or Cop trying to hide out? Where's the Town motivation in trying to out a "fake" VT claim? Way to screw the Town over.

 

##Vote Red2111

 

And may Hodor have mercy on your soul.

[_CLOUD]

 

 

 

I would have gotten a town read on Yates only because he claimed VT with his opening post but I liked his play against Red as well. It's a good way to kickstart a game with a lot of WIFOM and it limits the possibilities of the player because it fixes his role in place. This is also the reason why it is an incredibly risky move for the mafia to make with not a lot of gain.

 

 

green - explain, becuase i dont agree.

 

if the scum claims it and has a NA yes its risky because a tracker or watcher could see them visiting someone (to which they counter, yeah i lied cause i didnt' want to reveal and hurt the town, i'm actually *insert really good power role* lawl)

 

there is such a thing as nilla scum.  how is claiming nilla town incredibly risky for them in this case?

 

 

it kickstarts the game, but to me it doesnt LOCK TOWN a player for doing so.  the WIFOM it creates is double edged, and WIFOM is not always good for the town, even when its created by a townie.

 

 

It's a stupid move for the mafia to make because they won't be able to do any sort of crazy gambits afterwards or fake claim a role when they are about to get lynched, while a townie doing it would still be useful to the rest of the town if not more so than before. It's true that WIFOM is a double edged sword but in this case I would argue that it works more in the favor of the town because of the reactions that will inevitably follow.

[Niniel]

 

 

 

Red your reasoning for continuing to vote me makes approximately zero sense. You have an apparent scum suspect in Mish yet you are voting me "for reactions." The reactions you're getting are from probtownies who recognize this is my obvtown game.

 

Try again.

 

red - mutli taskign and casing multiple people is good.

 

you're reaction to a single vote is scummy.  you've done nothing scum hunting wise, you've only had cheerleading support for the case building on Mish, and you blatantly wagon a person with the longest train with no other reason than OMGUS and people are defending you.

 

to quote Hamlet's mother "the lady doth protest too much, me thinks,"

 

blue - the only perosn i trust in this game is myself.

 

pink - meta isn't a good defense and i dont buy it, nor do i use it to determine the scumminess ot towness of a person. 

 

green - nah i'm good.

 

 

This is garbage.  You've completely destroyed the credibility of your vote on Tommy, so any reactions you get from it are null.  Why aren't you voting Mish?

 

 

the vote itself and the reactions to the vote are independent.  the defense of tom started before i had a chance to explain my vote as people saw AJ calling it a joke vote and assumed thats what it was.

 

as for not voting Mish, a few reasons.

 

- reactions i'm getting from my current vote

-  deadline is far enough off, so no real reason to move my vote imo. 

- moving my vote would be seen more like trying to cover my ass than apply pressure on Mish,

- we need more than just two trains and two cases (if you could call the case agaisnt me a case) going on, i'd really like to see a third train tbh and a few more cases.

 

but i get your point womby and heres a question for you.  why do you still have your vote on me considering your intital vote was a reaction test?   (n/m i sa where you changed yer vote,  yay for the vote thingy deciding to work today.  )why aren't you also casing Mish and others?  why are you defending Dawn?   

 

 

Also, I think you guys are a bit too harsh on Dawn atm.  She rolled mafia her first two games, so her town game probably isn't that developed yet.  She's a quick learner, but I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt atm.

 

mafia is a game of hard knocks. you learn best by learning from your failures.  this is no reason, imo, to go easy on a person.  if her mistakes aren't pointed out to her and she doesn't get pressure over them, how can she grow as a player and evovle her game

 

 

 

 

I brought up Des because he is acting to seriously out of meta it's worrying. He usually comes in big, with tons of quotes and immediatly sets himself up as town leader. Here, he threw a half-hearted FoS at Red, and then starting nattering about off-topic stuff. I noted it and I want to see what he says about and how he acts next time he gets on. If he doesn't pick it up, I'll be all over his game.

 

 

This is lame btw, especially because I have almost four times the content Des does and you just got through telling us how we should be looking at both heads of a hydra.

 

 

bold - which is a surprise in itself.

 

 

 

you seem rather intent on sweeping it back under the rug.  makes me really curious as to why that is and what your true motive was for doing it in the first place.

Do I? Is that why I called you out on it rather than ignore it - the way everyone else has? So let me ask you this; what do *YOU* think is my motivation for claiming vanilla so early? Do you think I'm trying to draw a night action by claiming I have no night action? What has me curious is your response to what should have been a fairly innocuous post when read in context.

 

Let me ask you straight up - do you think early claiming is alignment indicative?

 

 

blue - i'm not gonna WIFOM with you on this.  only you know what your true motivation was   

 

 

as for the other, not necessarily, but i question it none the less

 

 

You´re vote on Tom was initially because you thought he claimed a bad character. First - I think it was clear that he didn´t claim that character. Second - why would he claim a bad character at all? Third - I don´t even remember that person being at the Red Wedding. In short, this must be a fabricated reason to vote. 

 

Now, you keep your vote on him because you want to see others reactions? What kind of reactions have you gotten so far?

 

"moving my vote would be seen more like trying to cover my ass than apply pressure on Mish,"  - 

 

So Mish is still you´re biggest suspect even though you are voting Tom?

 

"we need more than just two trains and two cases (if you could call the case agaisnt me a case) "

 

I definitely think there is a case against you, a good one. It looks like you´re just trying to brush it off, just like when you said that Tom´s vote is a simple OMGUS vote.

 

 

Unvote. Vote Red.

[Red2111]

I'm SmallJon Umber and i'm a bodygaurd.

 

@ Tina - i never said Mish was my biggest suspect, i said that she had plenty of pressure on her and i agreed that the posts were scummy.  i have yet to list who im suspicous of.

 

 

 

there is such a thing as nilla scum.  how is claiming nilla town incredibly risky for them in this case?

By virtue of being scum you are - by definition - NOT vanilla. You can be a "goon" with no abilities outside of the ability to NK but that's still not vanilla and you would still be watchable/trackable. The "watchable/trackable" part is what makes the claim risky for scum. Plus I'm now locked in to my VT claim. I can't easily justify changing that claim to "*insert really good power role*" later without a HUGE amount of provable information.

Okay. Now let me tell you why I've been questioning your motives.

I claimed VT in thread on Day 1. As scum, a VT claim pigeon holes how I can play my hand. It also removes my "outs" if I ever get run up. I've already "claimed" so why wait to hammer? Conversely, your focusing on a VT claim is like a role fish. What if I'm a Doctor, Vig, or Cop trying to hide out? Where's the Town motivation in trying to out a "fake" VT claim? Way to screw the Town over.

##Vote Red2111

And may Hodor have mercy on your soul.

 

 

 

no, the term Vanilla simply means no role.  a goon is still Vanilla as they have no role, the tern goon is a flavor name for vanilla scum in most games.  the NK is not always trackable, depending on how the Mod sets up the action.   if theres a specific person assigned to submit the NK, then yes its trackable; but if its just a someon tell me who to kill before the deadline, then no its not trackable.

 

and while it does lock you in for claiming to save your ass on a lynch, the flip side (and why its not risky for a nilla scum) is that it give you some cover and a shield if you start gettign cased becuase you can draw back on the reveal to support yourself, and people assume first that your just a "misguided townie".  also, it can be a benefit if theres a role finder if you claim nilla as scum becuase they'll view you and see that your nilla (but not that you're scum).

 

its WIFOM at its purest, and depending on your motive can hurt or help the town.

 

 

to the green - i'm not role fishing, i've not made any remark on the claim you made, just on when you made it.  that is my focus.  you're the one bull dogging on the claim itself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would have gotten a town read on Yates only because he claimed VT with his opening post but I liked his play against Red as well. It's a good way to kickstart a game with a lot of WIFOM and it limits the possibilities of the player because it fixes his role in place. This is also the reason why it is an incredibly risky move for the mafia to make with not a lot of gain.

 

 

green - explain, becuase i dont agree.

 

if the scum claims it and has a NA yes its risky because a tracker or watcher could see them visiting someone (to which they counter, yeah i lied cause i didnt' want to reveal and hurt the town, i'm actually *insert really good power role* lawl)

 

there is such a thing as nilla scum.  how is claiming nilla town incredibly risky for them in this case?

 

 

it kickstarts the game, but to me it doesnt LOCK TOWN a player for doing so.  the WIFOM it creates is double edged, and WIFOM is not always good for the town, even when its created by a townie.

 

 

It's a stupid move for the mafia to make because they won't be able to do any sort of crazy gambits afterwards or fake claim a role when they are about to get lynched, while a townie doing it would still be useful to the rest of the town if not more so than before. It's true that WIFOM is a double edged sword but in this case I would argue that it works more in the favor of the town because of the reactions that will inevitably follow.

 

 

i disagree because in that case the claim woudl be the crazy gambit, with the reward being the town bought the claim and they now have that leeway to "scum hunt". 

 

and if the fake VT scumster gets townies lynched with their cases "well its not like i'm finder or anything, all i have to go on is gut readings and what people say.  obvs i was wrong *shrug*"

[Red2111]

 that should be "lock you from claiming to save yoru ass on a lynch"  not for claiming

[Andrej]

Just wanna say that I am going to enjoy this game immensely. Now onto MQs:

 

 

 

 

how were these replys bad timing?  they were like a few posts after the post i was responding to.  are you expecting me to be some mind reading Jedi and respond to scummy posts before their made?  do i look like Marty mcFly with a time machine?

 

as for Mish, its called Multi-tasking.  she had enough pressure from others that me pointing out the scumm post was enough pressure from me for the time.  

 

and who said my vote on Tom was a joke *raises eyebrow*  there is a character in this series called "The Goat" and his is most assuredly scum in any ASoF&I game his in.  anyone claiming to be that character is scum imo and is auto-lynch.  unless you want to aruge that the Goat is some anti-hero like snape, in which case i'd argue that Joff had more chance of being a good guy that the Goat does.

 

You are missing the points I was making. Mynd comes in and immediately calls down on Mish for her post. I find how you immediately turn your attention to Tom after this sequence was badly timed. IE: you were shifting the focus away from Mish and towards Tom for something insignificant. It's called Chainsaw Defense. This idea was further reinforced when you made that post above with the meme in it calling Mish scum but continue keeping your vote on Tom for something that should be at the very least 100% null, especially now that it has been explained SEVERAL times what it really means and why he was saying it. This is called Distancing.

 

 

Who are you going to vote for?

 

currently i'm voting for you.  it interesting seeing how AJ came to your defense and others latchign onto his assumption that my vote was a joke.  its also fun watchign you squirm with a single vote on you. 

 

i may just leave it for shits and grins

 

Just all around terrible. For one, I didn't assume your vote was a joke. I said the tone of it was jokey, which bothered me, considering the seriousness of Mynd's post a few before there where he was legitimately casing someone and then you turned attention to Tom.

 

So you're saying you are going to leave your vote on Tom although it has been explained what the meaning of GOAT was? Even though you think Mish could be mafia based on the post YOU made as well as other people's arguments against her?

 

 

red - my style is similar to Mynd's, theres nothing i could do more than echo and parrot what Mynd is saying and doing.  Mynds a big boy, his cases and pressure on someone can stand on their own and i'm not really keen to be budding up to him when i dont know his alignement.

 

i showed my support to her being called out by pointing out what i found scummy and why.  that was suffecient enough.

 

theres no reason why we shoudl focus on one person, so instead of just having one case out there, i went looking elsewhere.  do you have a problem with multiple cases and trains goign at once?  this game is big enough that we shoudl have 3 or 4 trains goign at once imo.

 

blue - you out right called my vote on him a joke AJ.  your arguing semantics and splitting straws trying to say calling my vote reason jokey wasn't callign it a joke vote.  if you belive the reason behind a vote was jokey, you're calling the vote a joke vote.

 

Mynds post wasn't serious.  he was tryign to reactions.  you've obviously never played with Mynd or you'd knwo his style.  tbh, he wasn't even digging at Mish in that post, he was seeing how others would react.  Mish's reaction was scummy so it was a double bonus reaction wise.  but this is typical mydn style.    where do you think i learned it from *grins at mynd*

 

1. Explain to me how you think you would be buddying Mynd by agreeing with his case. Through extension, aren't we all buddying to achieve majority? If you thought his case was compelling, why not follow it?

 

2. Your support was lacking with no vote to follow it, that's my point. You can still spread pressure and look in other directions while voting someone that you believe to be mafia.

 

3. Joke vote or not, it was still badly justified and timed. Firstly, if it were a joke I don't see why you would make it at that time considering the game was actually beginning to pick up. Secondly, if it were a serious vote, why would you believe someone would openly claim scum on thread? In the end it would turn into a big case of WIFOM, and not one I would find necessarily compelling to lynch over. I think you'd have a hard time getting 9 others to vote with you for something that Tom and others do on a regular basis (I am allowing a little leeway here because I don't expect you knew that prior to this). In essence you would be wasting your vote.

 

4. How do you know Mynd's post wasn't serious? I believe it was you earlier who said you take things on thread at face value, so why are you now applying assumptions to Mynd's intent with his casing and vote on Mish? Furthermore, you're also assuming that I have never played with Mynd. He and I got quite intimate in our most recent game together (which is still ongoing currently)

 

Say something about me!

 

 

Say something about me!

I'm hoping nobody goes #FullDarthe this game

 

 

lol'd

 

 

I brought up Des because he is acting to seriously out of meta it's worrying. He usually comes in big, with tons of quotes and immediatly sets himself up as town leader. Here, he threw a half-hearted FoS at Red, and then starting nattering about off-topic stuff. I noted it and I want to see what he says about and how he acts next time he gets on. If he doesn't pick it up, I'll be all over his game.

 

This is lame btw, especially because I have almost four times the content Des does and you just got through telling us how we should be looking at both heads of a hydra.

 

This is a pretty fair point.

 

 

 

Changed my story how? Show plz.

This is the moment when you changed your story:

I'll spell it out for you Mynd.

I haven't checked the game all day. Decided to catch up before going to bed. Saw it had twelve pages, wasn't exactly looking forward to going through that while tired. Jumped to the last page to check the mood of thread. Was happy it was still jokes, no need for serious brain activity before bedtime. Decided to post picture I just saw in my tmblr feed. Capiche?


And it's just Mish, or Mistress if you prefer

 

Didn't say that, Mynd. Said I was reading the thread before going to bed. Takes me a while to get ready, so reading and replaying to the game in the meantime.

But now im done with all that. So see ya all tomorrow.

 

This is bad. Striking a nerve with Mish is null and you know it. And nudging Red while voting Mish is doubly bad.

 

I’m well aware that Mish is an emotional player but there is a difference between being easily riled up and doing a lousy job at defending yourself. She was trying to divert attention away from herself and onto X for an opening post that didn’t stick out to me in any kind of way, and now she is defending herself by pointing out how nobody has said anything about Tress while she has yet to write her first game related post. And as for me nudging Red while voting Mish: I only have one vote dude. If I had two I would have voted both of them because as I have already explained I find both of them scummy and creating competing trains would be a good idea.

 

Fair enough.  You can be town for now.

 

##unvote

##Vote Mishtress

 

I'm gonna need you to explain this a bit further. Why the switch from Red to Mishtress? Quotes are explanations would work best for me, thx.

 

the vote itself and the reactions to the vote are independent.  the defense of tom started before i had a chance to explain my vote as people saw AJ calling it a joke vote and assumed thats what it was.

 

as for not voting Mish, a few reasons.

 

- reactions i'm getting from my current vote

-  deadline is far enough off, so no real reason to move my vote imo. 

- moving my vote would be seen more like trying to cover my ass than apply pressure on Mish,

- we need more than just two trains and two cases (if you could call the case agaisnt me a case) going on, i'd really like to see a third train tbh and a few more cases.

 

but i get your point womby and heres a question for you.  why do you still have your vote on me considering your intital vote was a reaction test?   (n/m i sa where you changed yer vote,  yay for the vote thingy deciding to work today.  )why aren't you also casing Mish and others?  why are you defending Dawn?   

 

Tbh, I really don't care who you voted for or for what reasons. My main point was how you immediately started a counter wagon to Mish's once Mynd made what I thought was a pretty good point. The fact that you voted Tom over something completely null is just icing on the cake. You see?

 

2nd bold: Interesting that you'd be more concerned about this than lynching someone you called mafia earlier. Do you think Mish is likely scum, yes or no?

 

 

FWIW, I don't get your claim Yates, but besides that you seem town, so you're still in a superposition of all possible alignments imo.  Slight skew towards town maybe.

 

What part don't you get? The "vanilla" or the "town?" I can explain either if required. Or is it that you don't know who Tytos Blackwood is because you only watch the show? And btw that's perfectly fine because I only watch the show myself.

 

To be fair, this sounds like it would be a pretty good mod-provided fake claim. I'm a little skeptical on the early claim myself.

 

 

 

 

I would have gotten a town read on Yates only because he claimed VT with his opening post but I liked his play against Red as well. It's a good way to kickstart a game with a lot of WIFOM and it limits the possibilities of the player because it fixes his role in place. This is also the reason why it is an incredibly risky move for the mafia to make with not a lot of gain.

 

green - explain, becuase i dont agree.

 

if the scum claims it and has a NA yes its risky because a tracker or watcher could see them visiting someone (to which they counter, yeah i lied cause i didnt' want to reveal and hurt the town, i'm actually *insert really good power role* lawl)

 

there is such a thing as nilla scum.  how is claiming nilla town incredibly risky for them in this case?

 

 

it kickstarts the game, but to me it doesnt LOCK TOWN a player for doing so.  the WIFOM it creates is double edged, and WIFOM is not always good for the town, even when its created by a townie.

 

I have to agree with Red here in this situation. Some townies think lying on thread is doing town a good service by confusing the mafia, but usually it only lends to other townies being mistrustful of them. I personally am not a huge fan of town gambits, and have learned through personal experience from both seeing and doing them myself that they tend to backfire more often than not.

 

 

3rd - i answered this, the fact that you claimed with no pressure at all on you, thats what makes it questionable.

 

WHYYYYY???!!! WHY does a no pressure VT claim require scrutiny? What could you POSSIBLY hope to achieve??

 

A long, drawn out discussion on mafia theory that you seem to be continuing to push here. Not really liking this. It serves more as a distraction than anything at this point.

[Yates]

no, the term Vanilla simply means no role.  a goon is still Vanilla as they have no role, the tern goon is a flavor name for vanilla scum in most games.

So we're going to argue semantics, now? What happens when you go to the mafiascum wiki and look up the definition of vanilla?  Compare that to the definition of goon.  Those are the working definitions I'm operating with and I'm not going to continue this inane discussion.

 

You are the only person creating wifom here by fabricating a "discussion" on a VT claim.  Town shouldn't care about a VT claim on Day 1.

 

I'm not sure how I'm "bull dogging" my claim [or what that even means].  There's nothing to elaborate on.  Your insistence that there is something to elaborate on is what rings as hollow.

 

Also, you play a lot of games with Town-aligned role cops?  Role cops are typically scum, fyi.  Town investigators are typically cops, watchers, trackers, or gunsmiths.  If I get investigated and have a gun or a guilty result or have visited somebody?  I have no outs.  So, okay.  In the extremely unlikely scenario that there is a Town Role Cop, your allegation might have some merit.  In the real world, even that excuse is shallow.

 

Your claim, on the other hand, is a patented fake claim for scum.  Based on your actions and the way you claim to scum hunt, I don't see how you possibly think your play justifies the actions of someone that received a BG role.

 

Confirm:

##Vote: Red2111

[Yates]

I'm a little skeptical on the early claim myself.

And did you generate a bunch of useless posts to "investigate" the claim? No. Why not?

 

Some townies think lying on thread is doing town a good service by confusing the mafia, but usually it only lends to other townies being mistrustful of them. I personally am not a huge fan of town gambits, and have learned through personal experience from both seeing and doing them myself that they tend to backfire more often than not.

Who says I'm lying or gambiting? I've been pretty clear about my role, I think. I did present some scenarios in which Town *might* lie - but only to illustrate that the minuses of pursuing said line of questioning has more potential disadvantages than advantages. Point remaining, it's pretty scummy to choose that particular bone to chew on.

[Andrej]

 

I'm a little skeptical on the early claim myself.

 

And did you generate a bunch of useless posts to "investigate" the claim? No. Why not? 

 

Not worth the distraction that it's now providing.

 

 

Some townies think lying on thread is doing town a good service by confusing the mafia, but usually it only lends to other townies being mistrustful of them. I personally am not a huge fan of town gambits, and have learned through personal experience from both seeing and doing them myself that they tend to backfire more often than not.

 

Who says I'm lying or gambiting? I've been pretty clear about my role, I think. I did present some scenarios in which Town *might* lie - but only to illustrate that the minuses of pursuing said line of questioning has more potential disadvantages than advantages. Point remaining, it's pretty scummy to choose that particular bone to chew on.

 

Yeah - you're definitely starting to drop down my town list now Yates. Did I say anywhere that I thought *you* were lying or gambiting? I am stating in general that if that's what you are actually doing then it's more likely to blow up in your face than not.

 

I agree that by claiming VT you are locked in now with that claim. However, being auto-cleared through this claim is absurd because it would neglect several possibilities that I really don't see the need getting into atm. Let's just say that often enough good scum will make these risky types of plays because the payoff is usually pretty good. I don't know why people seem to neglect the fact that there are roles that serve directly to counter the aforementioned townie investigative roles. Ninja or GF anyone?

[Tommyrod]

AJ so clear it's starting to hurt

 

Kill Red, EZ D1