[Advanced] Red Wedding Mafia - Post Game, MakersMark

[Tommyrod]

I've had a good laugh. I'm gonna step away and see what Red and Krak have to say.

[amegakure]

what happened to your avi :(

[Darthe]

Just switching to other Barry.  Nice to see you Amega.

[_CLOUD]

I liked the previous one more.

[dawnflower8]

Claiming a scum character is seriously the best

 

I'm in tears

He claimed a scum character and said he was that character and town?

 

Someone, please hammer Dice. How in the world is he still alive?

[Lenlo]

So I decided to do some searching, cause I think the scum would atleast be smart about their claims.

 

His sis wasnt at the wedding ((In the book)). Shes still alive. As is Walder. So theres that char info.

 

Straight up my gut is saying Dice isnt scum. Something just feels... off, about this whole thing.

[Tommyrod]

So I decided to do some searching, cause I think the scum would atleast be smart about their claims.

 

His sis wasnt at the wedding ((In the book)). Shes still alive. As is Walder. So theres that char info.

 

Straight up my gut is saying Dice isnt scum. Something just feels... off, about this whole thing.

If that's the case then the scumteam would be exactly Dawn/Cloud/X, which while not impossible, seems a lot less likely than Dice just being scum. (That or there's another scum off the wagon that isn't around to hammer.)

[dicetosser1]

 

 

So your defense is... "oops?"

 

No comment on the breadth of spew implicating you (yet the same doesn't exist for me)?

 

No consideration of what Krak said regarding Cloud having fairly clearing interactions with VerbTina, nor Verb trying to get Cloud lynched as a Hail Mary ploy?

 

No concern for Cory also clearing me for my own interactions with Tina?

 

None of that matters, right?

 

And somehow you're spinning your blatant scumslip last night into being my fault for not recognizing Jack was gonna flip town... XD

lets see

 

len can you make ure sister do the right thing all the time? Not my problem what she was i can only give you what darthe gave me

 

It was pretty obvious he was town. Mafia would have come up with a better series of actions

 

oh cory cleared you. yet his other head AJ thought the same as me. I notice you discount that. and lets make it VERY clear that they had not VIEWED you.

Claim a scum character? NP! "Not my fault I was randed scum!"

 

It was obvious Jack was town, yet six people voted him! "There must be six scum!"

 

Cory has infinitely more experience than AJ at reading me. I thought he had peeked me for a while because he was so sure of it, but I guess I was oozing towniness or something.

 

You suddenly started calling me scum after calling me town prior to that. Why? Because I ISO'd your 15 posts. Why does that make me scum? Because "scum Tommy does that." No further explanation. The essence of OMGUS. You've doubled down on that since then without much further explanation.

 

You're conveniently ignoring all the scum soft distancing that greatly implicates you. Not your fault, right? Damn those soft pushing teammates of yours!

 

 

Character is on Darthe  I get what i get.

 

And AJ has a lot more experience reading me then corey does and he said i was town. Dont think Corey ever accused me of being scum either but one of the cops did accuse you

 

You let me spot you as scum and i will call you scum. Your biggest problem is that i can spot you and you know it

[dicetosser1]

 

Official Vote Count:

 

Jack (6/6): Megaloud, Dawn, Tommy, Nyancat, X, Len

MegaLoud (1/6): Jack, Dice

 

Not Voting (2/10):

Krak, Red

 

 

@Darthe   you are missing the link for this on your end of day post

 

@all  Take a look at the people voting Jack. Three of them, megacloud, tommy and x I have on my scum list and have openly said so. Then you have Dawn who lots of people have said is scummy but a train never got going on. Nyancat we know was town. Len got conned. Im pretty certain he is town.

 

As i said it was far too dysfuntional a claim and explanation to be a mafia setup. No mafia team would have someone fake claim doc and say they protected only themselves with all the claims we had had

[Tommyrod]

I'm not going to argue with you about whether you can or cannot read me (though I don't think you can).

You're basically yelling into an empty room that I'm scum, but you haven't tried to really push it. You made an emotional plea (if you guys wanna lose go ahead and lynch me) and a bad claim after an entire game of non-participation.

Other players have plausible deniability. Red was attacked by dead scum, Dawn and Lenlo have matching characters, Cloud brought up a case on Tina before she was outed and Verb tried to get Cloud lynched over himself.

 

But for you, it's just the opposite: both dead scummers distanced from you by making sure people knew they were "suspicious" of you without actually pushing you. That looks really bad. Combine it with the rest of your play in this game (or lack of play, really), and your comment last night about how Jack was "obvious town" before he flipped, and you're far and away the scummiest player remaining.

You've got a huge hole to dig yourself out of, and if you're actually town, you'd best get digging. Telling me I'm scum and not providing a reason sure as hell ain't gonna work.

[dicetosser1]

and what scum distancing? that tina left me off a list?  Notice i asked why i was left off.

 

what else you got?  low posts?  take a look at Amega. He AND cloud had 4.9% according to Darthes post  id bet 4% of that was done by cloud.

 

Next?

[Tommyrod]

 

 

 

I, like len was thinking that you should have kept some of that original info back Yates but now that you explain it, it does make sense.

 

 

Tina i am hurt. Did you forget I was in the game? Even after quoting something with my quote in it??

 

Oops! Sorry Dice. I went over that post twice to see that I didn´t forget anyone. Actually I don´t know where I got you this game. You sound much more calm than you use to do. Maybe it´s because people haven´t suspected you much yet? But you have almost the opposite thoughts than I have. You have a town read on both Red and Mynd, who are on the top on my scum list. Then we have posts like these:

 

 

also  mynd kept asking des to case or give his reads on the hydras.

 

Why is that a bad thing? how is it different then asking someone for reads on a bunch of players?

 

What would it have hurt if someone did case the hydras? They may find some interesting info. they may almost clear some people. They may get mynd to shut up about hydras which a number o\f people seem to want.

 

 

Be clear here i am not saying focusing exclusively on the hydra's only is a good thing but i dont see how casing them is a bad thing either. Hydras are not masons there could be mafia among them.

 

Don´t know why you choose to agree with Mynd about the hydras. A lot of people have made lists including the hydras. But why focus only on them. You say that you don´t think that we should focus only on hydras but that is what Mynd seems to want and you are agreeing with him.

 

 

 

 

also  mynd kept asking des to case or give his reads on the hydras.

 

Why is that a bad thing? how is it different then asking someone for reads on a bunch of players?

 

What would it have hurt if someone did case the hydras? They may find some interesting info. they may almost clear some people. They may get mynd to shut up about hydras which a number o\f people seem to want.

 

 

Be clear here i am not saying focusing exclusively on the hydra's only is a good thing but i dont see how casing them is a bad thing either. Hydras are not masons there could be mafia among them.

 

Right; they're no different than other players. Mynd has been arguing that they are more dangerous than a non-hydra player and using that as a reason to focus on them. It's factually incorrect, but has become a huge talking point because Mynd keeps bringing it up as if it's a really good strategy.

 

 

Blue   but they are a little. they have a QT and can work together to plot and achieve an end. that does make them a little different just like it does masons. Ordinary town players don't have somewhere to go and bounce ideas off someone or strategize except the thread.

 

 

Ehm... now I´m getting drawn into this fruitless discussion as well. Town hydras has someone to bounce ideas off - I don´t see why town hydras or scum hydras would be more powerful. 

 

 

@Tina - why do you feel that someone making bets on their alignment is more likely a scum thing to say?

 

I felt that she did it only to look town. 

 

I'm just not sure who I think is scum. Nobody has said anything that seems particularly scummy to me. I will admit that my last vote was just a bandwagon vote and I had no reason for voting her besides me wanting to get rid of my joke vote on Red (who I don't find scummy at all)

 

And I'm confused about all the random, non-game related meme stuff getting mixed up with what's important. It makes it difficult for me to figure out what is actually important and what is just silliness. Even a lot of things that look serious end up turning into some sort of joke.

 

96 pages and you think that nobody has said anything scummy?

 

Krak... are you holding a Seance?

 

I lol´d. 

 

Krak seriously looks like scum just trying to find posts scummy enough to push. I think his suspects are Red, Dawn, Dice, and... Nolder?

I think Dice was the only non consensus one. Then he stopped.

Since mafia didn't shoot Nolder he could have been reading the thread with only the knowledge that DesBat was dead.

Makes more sense than him remembering the small black font no-coroner reported death and not the large blue font death anyway.

 

This is quite possible. It´s strange that he didn´t remembered the first killed that was mentioned.

Here's the first time one of the scumdras spoke about Dice. It's about a 7.5 on the conspicuous scale; looks like some light friendly banter from Tina when she says "you sound much more calm than you used to" followed by her saying "we have opposite reads" and talking about the dumb hydra discussion. Reads like soft distancing.

 

This post also makes Red look a little better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lenlo: I´m not sure what to say about him. The "I told you so" post look ugly but he hasn´t said much this game.

Havnt said much? Ive said more than you and many others. It worries me that you are unable to decide one way or the other and take an actual stance on me.

 

Len - the first serious post you had was #922. First you posted a lot of jokes/fluff and then you were away. When you got back you did your catch up posts. In the last one you listed Mish, Red and Dawn as mafia, and Desbat, Dice and Jack as maybe mafia. I agreed with Red and Dawn but not the others. Then you voted Red, said Mishtress couldn´t be scum because of vanilla claim and the next I remember is that you told us that you knew Mish would turn up town. Not much to go on. 

 

Tina: Can you show me a post or two of mine that you like or agree with?

 

Sure. Wait.

Here Tina defends Dice against Lenlo. Womp womp.

 

 

 

 

It has taken me a long time to catch up. Here are my thoughts:

 

Feels town:

 

Cory/AJ: Have gone after Red and Mynd and I agree with most things they have said. I also agree with Cory about Dawn. I´m not sure that I agree with Red being town but otherwise a lot of good posts.

 

Tommy: Like Cory/AJ, I like his posts.

 

Yates: I believe his vig claim. I also like they way he went after Red and Mynd.

 

X: Voted Mishtress, which I didn´t believe in, but he stayed there and had reasons for his vote.

 

Nyn/Kat: The same as X. I´m a little worried that X and Nyn buried their votes on a townie but they tried to convince others to vote there so I get a townie feeling.

 

 

Don´t know:

 

Zanube: All things she has done this game has been her strange vote. Want her to post more. Hope she is well.

 

Hally/Leelou: Hally seemed to hide behind her suspiciouns of Dawn but Leelou where more out in the open. I usually know her alignment but I can´t say she has done anything that is townie enough or scummy enough yet.

 

Jack: Will he read the whole thread soon?

 

Krak: The same for him.

 

Lenlo: I´m not sure what to say about him. The "I told you so" post look ugly but he hasn´t said much this game.

 

 

Mafia:

 

Mynd: I don´t like the way he defended Red. Why would anyone think someone would fakeclaim but still be town? I don´t like how he is going after the hydras. I didn´t like the story he tried to sell today with the na´s. I don´t like the way he talked about character claims being able to clear people. He said that we (Verbalina) jumped between Mish and Red which is false. We only voted Red.

 

Red: Still think she is mafia and I`m afraid that she will skate through the game now since she survived d1.

 

Dawn: I have only played one game with her and she was clueless in a way that made me believe she is town. Here she is more absent than clueless.

 

Amega/Cloud: Cloud has posted well but Amega has written some strange things. Amega went from believing Mynd to voting Mynd to vote Tommy for something that happend in the beginning of the game. Very weird.

I, like len was thinking that you should have kept some of that original info back Yates but now that you explain it, it does make sense.

 

 

Tina i am hurt. Did you forget I was in the game? Even after quoting something with my quote in it??

Tina's original reads list excluded Dice and Dice pointed it out. The post I quoted earlier where she distances from him was in response to this. That progression looks even worse now.

 

 

 

 

1. Mistress (Mish/Tress) - If it was just Mish, I'd say straight up flustered. With Tress if feels like damage control and not fully liking how in her quick recap that she tied a few people to how Desbat flips. I feel like they've reigned in a bit and are trying to tighten up their game. Mish - how do you feel about X now? Townish with a hint of scum

2. Desbat (Wombat/Des) - I've liked Wombat's play so far. I'd like to see some more from Des though. Most memorable posts are him talking about dreams. 

3. Nolbat - He seems to be trying, I wouldn't say he's giving his all yet, but I wouldn't call him scum either. Lazyish townie. 

4. Krak - Where you at? 3 posts? Not cool, man. Not cool. 

5. MegaLoud (Amega/Cloud) - Undecided. Cloud is #scumday1nomatterwhat and Amega isn't the strongest of players. So far Cloud hasn't done anything uber scummy to get a vote from me. null 

6. Crayjay (Cory/Andrej) - posting has been strong from both Cory and AJ, leaning town on them 

7. Lenlo - Mostly spammy, null. I'd like to see some comments on the events in the game. I know you can do it. 

8. X - I didn't see his op the way Mish did. I think he responded alright to Mish and Tress. I'd like to see some commentary from him on Red

9. Dawn - seems a bit jumpy, not sure if it's her newness still or if she doesn't want the attention on her. Null to slight scum 

10. Jack - just got to the party. Welcome

11. Princess Verbalina of Kindelbury (Verb/Tina) - Verbal seems on par for his level of posting. Tina could be a bit more inquisitive, but so far she hasn't set off my scum radar yet. Null

13. Dice - Barely active, but has been commenting on game play. Slight town lean, will change to a scum lean if he's not more active though

14. Zanube - Have you seriously only made 2 posts?!? 1 to say hi and 1 to comment on dreaming?

15. Red - I'm still having a hard time with your claiming as early as you did, especially after the ration of crap you gave Yates for his claim. We weren't near deadline and you were just at half the vote required for a lynch. Are you still voting Tommy over the Goat thing? Leaning jumpy scum. Also - I won't read skittle puke or quotes within quotes, so I probably won't read half your posts. 

16. Nyankat (Nyn/Kat) - Meow. Okay, Nyn so far seems genuine in her posting. Townish lean on her

17. Mynd - Doing his beating the grass thing. Hi Mynd. So you thought Red claimed a big gun for a bit? Yeah unfortunately not. How do you feel about her super early claim? Why fear the hydras? 

18. Tommy - I don't really see where Tommy is "squirming" like Red seems to think he is. His posts are coming off with a townie vibe. Town lean

19. Yates - opened with a claim of VT, slight distraction but haven't seen any erratic behavior from him. Null 

 

##unvote, vote Red

Check out the way Leelou handles her "read" of Dice in this post and compare it to the townie Zanube right below.

 

Dice: "you've been inactive, but I'm reading you town, but if you get scummier I'll bus you."

Zanube: "you've been inactive, let's lynch the piss out of you!"

 

Dramatized, but I think you get the idea. Classic non-committal hedge on a scummate.

 

 

 

 

Okay here our list - I'm going from what Hallia posted yesterday, so don't get on me about order. I have it ordered below. 

 

Town:

Yates/Red (Provided their claims are proven) - I am more likely to believe Yates. He hasn't been countered and this is the kind of play I'd expect from him. Red, despite her play, I'm giving her the benefit of doubt providing her role is vetted soon. If not, I will revisit her. 

Crayjay - Posting very protown, looking at all the angles. I agree with most of what they and Tom are saying

Tommy - Much like Crayjay, posting protown. Not afraid to look at different people

 

Scum reads:

Mynd - he has a fixation with only looking at a small pool of players that have shown both town and scum tendencies (more town than scum btw). He seems to be satisfied with ignoring the individual players and is fear mongering that the hydras are more of a danger. He does not seem willing to admit that the hydras that are town are more beneficial for town since they are basically a one role mason team. 

Krak - Not liking his catch up posts. Also forgetting Nol is dead seems like a scum slip since he could remember that Desbat were dead, yet they were written in black with no info under Nolder, who was in blue with his name and role. 

Megaloud - lots of inconsistencies in their play. Amega came off very defensive when Cory was trying to engage him a few pages back. Also his going after Tommy for something from very early in the game looked like he was trying to distance from the current lynch trains. Cloud almost felt like hardcore buddying with Mish near the end and his vote on Red seemed like he was trying some damage control from Amega. Cloud is more zen of the bunch, but I'm not getting the best of feelings from him. 

Dawn - Has not produced any reads, very self conscious and a bit defensive of how she is viewed in the game *just reading her new post now* Now she thinks Tommy is town? That's a complete 180. Looks like she's trying to go with the flow a bit too much. Not sticking her neck out and not trying to get dirty. Didn't like her switch to MishTress last min and couldn't entertain a lynch on Mynd. Not really liking any of her reasons for voting this game. 

Jack - I'm used to Jack being a bit more out there, this game he seems like he's been in a habitual catch up. He's the lowest on my scum list and could easily be switched out with some of the Null list. I'm actually waiting to see what his theories are today. 

 

Null:

 

Nyankat - Nyn's posts seem genuine, I almost have her in my town list, but she's not quite there yet. We want to wait and see what Kath has to present to the game. 

Verbalina - It's day 2. I'll be able to get a better feel for Verbal today. I wish Tina was a bit more inquisitive. They are close to scum. 

Dice - He's been quiet and tends to lay low as scum. I didn't get any reassuring feelings from his unvote in the middle of night phase. 

Zanube - extremely absent. She really needs to step it up for me to put her anywhere near my town pile, she is pretty high close to scum for me. Her last min vote on MishTress seemed very much like she was told to come on and vote and to pick anything to make it seem like it wasn't just a bandwagon vote. It was weird that she picked a post from Tress that she agreed with and then voted them. 

X - X seems like he's trying, it's a bit hard to get a 100% feel on him since he seems to be online at the times others are not. His interactions haven't felt forced though. 

Lenlo - I love that you are funny, but I want to see more game content from you. Give me your reads. Please. 

 

 

In line from scummy to towniess 

 

Mynd

Krak

Megaloud

Dawn

Jack

 

Zanube

Dice 

Verbalina (I will never get tired of typing that.)

 

Lenlo

X

Nyankat

 

Red 

Tommy

CrayJay

Yates

Here Leelou places Dice and Verb on the same "dunno lol" tier.

 

I've seen enough. Combine this with his overall lack of participation and his blatant scum slip regarding jack last night and we've got a live one.

 

##Vote Dice

 

The above is a sampling of the interactions the dead scum had with you. It all looks bad for you.

 

You calling out Tina for excluding you on the list, if anything, looks conspicuous, as if you were worried someone would notice and wanted to get out ahead of that.

 

 

So no, dismissing it with "next" isn't going to cut it.

[amegakure]

Sorry Sensai i haven't done this game justice.. I think it's a darthe game thing. When day one is 40 pages long i just cant keep up.. My head just spins like a top..and the wim drops. 

 

[_CLOUD]

[Tommyrod]

You guys are voting Dice too, care to do some of the legwork here? I feel like I'm arguing with myself.

[_CLOUD]

We are giving you moral support.

[Tommyrod]

I'm serious

[Lenlo]

I'm not going to argue with you about whether you can or cannot read me (though I don't think you can).

 

You're basically yelling into an empty room that I'm scum, but you haven't tried to really push it. You made an emotional plea (if you guys wanna lose go ahead and lynch me) and a bad claim after an entire game of non-participation.

 

Other players have plausible deniability. Red was attacked by dead scum, Dawn and Lenlo have matching characters, Cloud brought up a case on Tina before she was outed and Verb tried to get Cloud lynched over himself.

 

But for you, it's just the opposite: both dead scummers distanced from you by making sure people knew they were "suspicious" of you without actually pushing you. That looks really bad. Combine it with the rest of your play in this game (or lack of play, really), and your comment last night about how Jack was "obvious town" before he flipped, and you're far and away the scummiest player remaining.

 

You've got a huge hole to dig yourself out of, and if you're actually town, you'd best get digging. Telling me I'm scum and not providing a reason sure as hell ain't gonna work.

My thing with Dawn is this: Theres no guarntee that Arya isnt scum. Robbs /wife/ was scum, and Walder, so characters alignments probably dont mean much they are just for flavor. 

[dicetosser1]

lmao  you rely on the fact that cory can read you yet even cory has said im really good at picking you when you are scum.

 

list of reasons.

 

that ISOing of players is something ive noticed you do late game when scum

 

Cory claims and you start throwing cr*p everywhere hoping something will stick.

 

You twist things.

 

You try to rely on half of a dead cops FEEL  feel  not view  of you. Convienently ignoring that the other half of said cop felt you were scum and that i was town. Coincidentally the cop YOU rely on never said i was scum iirc.

 

Cloud just falls perfectly in line with everything you say. he doesn't even give a hint of him going a different way

[Tommyrod]

@ Lenlo: well that changes things, doesn't it?

[Tommyrod]

lmao  you rely on the fact that cory can read you yet even cory has said im really good at picking you when you are scum.

 

list of reasons.

 

that ISOing of players is something ive noticed you do late game when scum

 

Cory claims and you start throwing cr*p everywhere hoping something will stick.

 

You twist things.

 

You try to rely on half of a dead cops FEEL  feel  not view  of you. Convienently ignoring that the other half of said cop felt you were scum and that i was town. Coincidentally the cop YOU rely on never said i was scum iirc.

 

Cloud just falls perfectly in line with everything you say. he doesn't even give a hint of him going a different way

 

Those are pretty lame reasons. So you think Cloud is buddying me?

[_CLOUD]

It couldn't possibly be because we share the same scum read. No, that would be way too logical.

[_CLOUD]

Lenlo, if you don't think that Dice is scum who do you think is?

[Krakalakachkn]

Alright, back for a bit.

 

 

Before anyone does anything rash, someone feel like catching me up?  I'm reading but I also prefer to see how people try to spin events in their favor.

[Tommyrod]

Alright, back for a bit.

 

 

Before anyone does anything rash, someone feel like catching me up?  I'm reading but I also prefer to see how people try to spin events in their favor.

Have fun reading. I've said as much about Dice as I can without having a stroke. If you end up not agreeing with my conclusions, then we should move on to the next most likely suspects.