[Advanced] Twilight Mafia Game over - Mafia win

[Clovdyx]

 

Instead of just shrugging it off as a random CFD or #gamestarter, Jack asks why and accompanies it with a vote. Imo he was trying to keep it casual here, make it look more random.

 

 

And whether Tina used arbitrary reasoning for her pick or not isn't really the issue imo. If she has an ulterior motive, she isn't exactly going to reveal that when asked as that would sort of ruin it. I am considering tho whether she tried forcing things along as a way of trying to get town cred. For now I doubt it, but had Jack defended himself better I might have been swayed into voting there instead. For now I haven't really seen Jack take this matter seriously, so my vote stays.

 

So he should have just let her worthless vote go, but because he's not bothering to take it serious, you're voting him?  Am I understanding that correctly?

[Darthe]

Tina probably town

Des LAWK CLEER

Lenlo LAWK STUD

 

In b4 jack salami clov scumtram

 

This list is wrong.  I don't see my name.

[hazelkrs1]

Whyme Fryme means that he directly is whining about it, is directly using "why are you voting me rather than ____" or some variation of those questions.  Neither of the quoted statements above remotely fit that and the first quote you make isn't even related.

 

Uh... no. Whyme fryme is when someone asks "why me?" or seems more focused on defending themselves than catching scum.

 

Tina voted Jack for what looked on the surface like arbitrary reasoning.

 

Jack voted her back, and asked "why him".

 

This is whyme fryme. You can't dance around that Darthe.

 

At the very least your obstinance on this issue makes me think you're >rand to be town.

 

 

 

Instead of just shrugging it off as a random CFD or #gamestarter, Jack asks why and accompanies it with a vote. Imo he was trying to keep it casual here, make it look more random.

 

 

And whether Tina used arbitrary reasoning for her pick or not isn't really the issue imo. If she has an ulterior motive, she isn't exactly going to reveal that when asked as that would sort of ruin it. I am considering tho whether she tried forcing things along as a way of trying to get town cred. For now I doubt it, but had Jack defended himself better I might have been swayed into voting there instead. For now I haven't really seen Jack take this matter seriously, so my vote stays.

 

So he should have just let her worthless vote go, but because he's not bothering to take it serious, you're voting him?  Am I understanding that correctly?

 

 

Lol Clov I'm starting to think you might be scum yourself, the way you're presenting this post.

 

Short answer would be yes- I think he shouldn't have asked "why me" when Tina voted him and instead either voted her and said she was trying to look townie by trying to kickstart the voting, or shrugged and looked to see how people would react to a random train on him. I also think that after accumulating a few quick votes he shouldn't try to maintain a feux casual demeanor and try laughing everything off.

 

Those two concepts are not contradictory with one another. However you displaying them as if they were looks to me like experienced scum trying to find something to make someone look bad, not actual scumhunting.

 

In fact, Unvote, Vote Clov

[Darthe]

 

Whyme Fryme means that he directly is whining about it, is directly using "why are you voting me rather than ____" or some variation of those questions.  Neither of the quoted statements above remotely fit that and the first quote you make isn't even related.

 

Uh... no. Whyme fryme is when someone asks "why me?" or seems more focused on defending themselves than catching scum.

 

Tina voted Jack for what looked on the surface like arbitrary reasoning.

 

Jack voted her back, and asked "why him".

 

This is whyme fryme. You can't dance around that Darthe.

 

At the very least your obstinance on this issue makes me think you're >rand to be town.

 

 

Okay, without arguing anything about the specific game I'll state that your definition of whyme fryme is empirically inaccurate.  Yes, it is entirely correlated with someone using the reasoning of "why me?" which is exactly what I said.  It, however, has NOTHING to do with them being more focused on defending themselves than catching mafia.  Want to know who defends themselves instead of catching mafia?

 

PR's

Mafia

People who want to keep playing

People who are being attacked

Defensive individuals

Busy people

People who are depressed or having a bad day

People who respond without taking time to consider their posts

Inexperienced players

 

Point made?  It may not be the reaction you want to see from a townie but that doesn't make it a scummy reaction.

 

Jack said "And I was the best choice why?"  in response to Tina picking him out of a group of people who have one vote for them with the reasoning "We can't have it like this".  

 

This isn't just not Whyme Fryme, it is actually a good question and a town tell.  If you want to analyze the question then change the wording and see what it fits as.  He asked her what her reason was for picking him in particular out of a crowd of seven people because she didn't give ANY reason other than a one line excuse for changing her vote.  

 

Whyme fryme is distinctly only applicable if Jack had a negative emotional reaction to her voting him, essentially whining that he shouldn't be voted without providing a reason.  

 

In your post 120 you said "After all, "I am the best choice (for a lynch) why?" is NOT exactly a far cry from "Why me?"" which actually fairly well demonstrates the point.  You acknowledge here that it is a different thing and so cannot apply.  Actually, if you remove the word why from the end of your translation of his question (which, btw, isn't even a good translation) then the statement doesn't fit at all.

 

You go on to say:

 

Here's more whyme fryme. Makes it seem like it was weird that Tina picked him... even tho he himself kind of illustrates how arbitrary it likely was. After all, in the VC, Jack's name is first. It could simply have been that.

 

Now, I'll say this- whyme fryme is normally more of a tell for newer scum players, who tend to react more to stuff on them than vets do- and I realized this when I pointed out the whyme fryme. Doesn't mean that Jack doesn't slip up as scum tho.

 

And whether Tina used arbitrary reasoning for her pick or not isn't really the issue imo. If she has an ulterior motive, she isn't exactly going to reveal that when asked as that would sort of ruin it. I am considering tho whether she tried forcing things along as a way of trying to get town cred. For now I doubt it, but had Jack defended himself better I might have been swayed into voting there instead. For now I haven't really seen Jack take this matter seriously, so my vote stays.

 

First, it was strange that Tina picked him or anyone.  She didn't give a reason for picking him and still has not given one that was adequate.  With a 1/7 choice and no reasoning I would call anyone that she targetted strange and I would find it stranger if they didn't have some sort of negative reaction to that.  

Second, you call her vote arbitrary.  Would you not have issue with someone placing an "arbitrary" vote on you?  Also, that is you assigning reasoning to her vote which is not a towntell.  You even gave an example.  Really looks like you're defending Tina at this point.

Third, your second paragraph is hedging.

Fourth, you say "had jack defended himself better I might have been swayed into voting there instead" but if we look back the entire page it had been since the incident you're bringing up Jack has had very little to defend himself against because the case (I use that word loosly) brought against him is trumped up beyond all measure.  

 

You have now tried to placate multiple people into following you onto this train of buddying them for favor.

 

In light of all of this information I conclude that Jack is town and Tina is town being set up as a scapegoat for tomorrows lynch.

 

I unvote vote Despo

 

 

TLDR: I analyze the faulty reasoning behind Des's hefty push against Jack and discern that he is mafia.

[hazelkrs1]

[Darthe]

Oh look, someone that responded sarcastically instead of defending themselves.  That is a double standard.

[hazelkrs1]

So you're essentially saying Whyme Fryme isn't a universal scumtell. Uh- I think I already realize that dude. But the fact is, imo scum are more likely to be concerned with defending themselves than town. That's my opinion, I could be wrong, but in general in mafia I have found whyme fryme to actually be a lot more useful than I originally thought. And yes, while it isn't the reaction I would have preferred, if Jack is town, it's STILL a scummy move. It's scummy because it shows that you're overly concerned with yourself and your own appearance/defense.
 
And yeah- Tina didn't give any reason. She pretty much showed by the context of her actions that the vote was either on an arbitrary target, or that she was scum trying to gain towncred in which case Jack could be town or scum. So her not giving a reason doesn't really look weird or anything in this context. Asking for specific reasoning for what looks like what most would say is an arbitrary vote is a bit too defensive in my book.
 

In your post 120 you said "After all, "I am the best choice (for a lynch) why?" is NOT exactly a far cry from "Why me?"" which actually fairly well demonstrates the point. You acknowledge here that it is a different thing and so cannot apply. Actually, if you remove the word why from the end of your translation of his question (which, btw, isn't even a good translation) then the statement doesn't fit at all.

Yeah this is ridiculous dude. I didn't "translate" what Jack said- the only thing I added was the "for the lynch" in parentheses. Jack HIMSELF said "why" in his post, you even quoted it yourself
 

Jack said "And I was the best choice why?" in response to Tina picking him out of a group of people who have one vote for them with the reasoning "We can't have it like this".

Okay, I'm sorry. Apparently I got one more wrong. Was instead of am.

So yeah, again- I didn't mistranslate, or translate at all for that matter, Jack's words. I showed WHY they are so similar to the "why me?" response. Cause they are. A whyme fryme doesn't have to be a huge emotional thing, it can simply be someone that looks to be a bit too concerned with how they appear.

I wouldn't really care much about an arbitrary vote placed on me, no. Maybe if I was in extreme danger of being lynched, but then you'd have to be pretty daft as a townie to not see someone place an important vote behind the premise of it being "arbitrary". Someone trying to kickstart the game? No, I wouldn't really mind that much at all. In fact I'm pretty much used to getting voted a lot at the start of games, whether it's RVS or people paying more attention to me because I'm high profile.

So much more I need to roll my eyes at.

@ you saying I'm hedging. I don't hedge or waffle in that paragraph whatsoever.

@ you casing me on building a trumped up case on someone D1. You of all people should know how ridiculous this is.

@ you saying I had a "hefty push" against Jack. It's more like I used the power of my vote to help get reactions, and then used continuous interaction to start reading the players, while a couple of other people have hard defended Jack out of nowhere. Something I'm still wondering about is if we have a situation with scum white knighting Jack or what.

@ you essentially clearing Jack and Tina based off of a (WRONG) assumption that I am scum. You basically gained nothing at all by that post since you come to an incorrect conclusion that then leads you off to other weak and tenuous connections. Try again Darthe.

[hazelkrs1]

Oh look, someone that responded sarcastically instead of defending themselves.  That is a double standard.

 

And @ you for assuming I wasn't going to respond with more. The smilie was the TL,DR version of my response, essentially.

[Leelou]

Vote Count

 

Jack (2) - Cory, Tina

Des-Des (2) - Dawn, Darthe

Tina (1) - Jack 

Salami (1) - Hallia

Verbal (1) - Clov

Clov (1) - Des

 

Not Voting - BFG, Dice, Salami, Verbal, Pral, Lenlo

 

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch

[Cory Caboose]

Unvote

Vote Despot

[Leelou]

Vote Count

 

Des-Des (3) - Dawn, Darthe, Cory

Jack (1) - Tina

Tina (1) - Jack 

Salami (1) - Hallia

Verbal (1) - Clov

Clov (1) - Des

 

Not Voting - BFG, Dice, Salami, Verbal, Pral, Lenlo

 

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch

[Lenlo]

P1 - Some jokes, some intros, fun times.

Hi Lenlo

 Much love Cory.

 

P2 - More jokes.

 

P3 - Darthe votes mod. Des votes Darthe to #buddy mod

 

P4 - Verb is a grammar nazi. Boo. Capslock rules. Dawn taunts the mod. Dunno if anything came from that.

 

P5 - We feel embarrased for BFGs country cause of the video. Darthe is sort of lurking. Doesnt feel like kickstarting the game, which isnt like him. Noted.

 

P6 - Tina votes Jack for unknown reasons and then Jack asks why and votes her in return. Des votes Jack saying kneejerk omgus is lame. Des then cals Jacks response a weak whyme fryme.

 

Dont think Jack is sucm for his reactions, much more interested in Tina's reasons for voting him. Clov says town should do that, start the game. Not sure how I feel with that. Des kinda looks to be defending Tina's vote on Jack even though it was arbitray.

 

P7 - Des keeps saying the whyme fryme from Jack is bad, but I think its a legitimate question for Tina, who so far has been coasting on Des's agggressiveness turning the Jack lynch into a real thing. Barely done any legwork at all herself.

 

Darthe cases and votes Despo saying his reasons/whyme fryme logic isnt good enough. Case makes sense and points out that he has tried to get people to follow him onto the Jack train, but I dsiagree with him on Tina for now. Thinking some pressure could be put onto her. Cory votes Des with no reasoning even though earlier that page he called des LAWK CLEER.

 

((LAWK STUD. Ha.))

 

And thats everything up to now.

 

I think Jack is town and im undecided on Des. Darthe I want to lean town atm and im thinking Tina could use more pressure because ever since that vote on Jack shes been coasting and letting others do the fighting for her.

 

##Vote Tina

[Darthe]

Unvote

Vote Despot

 

Theze r no gud.

[Leelou]

Vote Count

 

Des-Des (3) - Dawn, Darthe, Cory

Tina (2) - Jack, Lenlo

Jack (1) - Tina

Salami (1) - Hallia

Verbal (1) - Clov

Clov (1) - Des

 

Not Voting - BFG, Dice, Salami, Verbal, Pral

 

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch

[Niniel]

The reason why I voted Jack was because I knew he wouldn´t keep quiet regardless if he is town or mafia. We needed something to happen. Now, the only thing that did happen was a discussion about whyfry. lol I should have known that not much else would happen during the weekend. 

 

Jack - did what I thought he would. No indication of alignment.

Des - jumped on the opportunity to get the game started. Then he manage to contradict himself, which is why Darthe voted him (I believe). If this was a few months ago I would have voted Des but I´m getting used to his weird, aggressive openings as town so I will just watch him. 

Darthe - his vote on Des is interesting. He is also used to how Des starts games but he think it´s scummy this time. 

 

Unvote.

 

Vote Csarmi

 

 

He has just posted once since my vote on Jack, when he questioned my post. I believe he has been on DM since then. Why won´t he comment on anything?

[dawnflower8]

*notices that more people have voted Despo*

 

Yes! Let's get that Team Jacob member put of here! 

 

*flaps wings and clucks like a chicken*

[Cory Caboose]

 

Unvote

Vote Despot

 

Theze r no gud.

 

 

Tell me how you really feel~

[Lenlo]

Alright now Tina shows up. Doesnt give any reads on any of the main contenders in that scuffle, straddles the fence and then trys to move it to someone who would, most likely imo, be an easier lynch than Jack.

 

Still feeling good about where I am.

[Niniel]

Yes, I´m here. Why would Csarmi be an easier lynch? If you think I´m going after an easy lynch then why didn´t I vote him to begin with? That doesn´t make any sense. 

[Darthe]

*notices that more people have voted Despo*

 

Yes! Let's get that Team Jacob member put of here! 

 

*flaps wings and clucks like a chicken*

 

You're about as helpful as your brother.

 

Alright now Tina shows up. Doesnt give any reads on any of the main contenders in that scuffle, straddles the fence and then trys to move it to someone who would, most likely imo, be an easier lynch than Jack.

 

Still feeling good about where I am.

 

I wish I could argue with that.  I am trying to outmeta here by going for Des instead of her but I still think it is probably more accurate.

[dawnflower8]

 

*notices that more people have voted Despo*

 

Yes! Let's get that Team Jacob member put of here! 

 

*flaps wings and clucks like a chicken*

 

You're about as helpful as your brother.

I'm not as annoyingly spammy, though.

[Clovdyx]

 

Whyme Fryme means that he directly is whining about it, is directly using "why are you voting me rather than ____" or some variation of those questions.  Neither of the quoted statements above remotely fit that and the first quote you make isn't even related.

 

Uh... no. Whyme fryme is when someone asks "why me?" or seems more focused on defending themselves than catching scum.

 

Tina voted Jack for what looked on the surface like arbitrary reasoning.

 

Jack voted her back, and asked "why him".

 

This is whyme fryme. You can't dance around that Darthe.

 

At the very least your obstinance on this issue makes me think you're >rand to be town.

 

 

 

Instead of just shrugging it off as a random CFD or #gamestarter, Jack asks why and accompanies it with a vote. Imo he was trying to keep it casual here, make it look more random.

 

 

And whether Tina used arbitrary reasoning for her pick or not isn't really the issue imo. If she has an ulterior motive, she isn't exactly going to reveal that when asked as that would sort of ruin it. I am considering tho whether she tried forcing things along as a way of trying to get town cred. For now I doubt it, but had Jack defended himself better I might have been swayed into voting there instead. For now I haven't really seen Jack take this matter seriously, so my vote stays.

 

So he should have just let her worthless vote go, but because he's not bothering to take it serious, you're voting him?  Am I understanding that correctly?

 

 

Lol Clov I'm starting to think you might be scum yourself, the way you're presenting this post.

 

Short answer would be yes- I think he shouldn't have asked "why me" when Tina voted him and instead either voted her and said she was trying to look townie by trying to kickstart the voting, or shrugged and looked to see how people would react to a random train on him. I also think that after accumulating a few quick votes he shouldn't try to maintain a feux casual demeanor and try laughing everything off.

 

Those two concepts are not contradictory with one another. However you displaying them as if they were looks to me like experienced scum trying to find something to make someone look bad, not actual scumhunting.

 

In fact, Unvote, Vote Clov

 

 

I'm trying to make you look bad and not scumhunting?  I'm sorry, when I scumhunt, I have a tendency to rely on understanding what people meant.  In that case, it required some clarification because I'm not entirely sure why you'd complain about him taking a vote (Tina's) seriously and then also complain about him not taking another (yours) seriously. 

 

I do appreciate that you felt the need to vote for me for asking you to clarify two statements you mean that, seemingly, contradict one another.  I mean, you might ahve known perfectly well what you meant, but the rest of the game was not sitting next to you when you typed it.

 

*notices that more people have voted Despo*

 

Yes! Let's get that Team Jacob member put of here! 

 

*flaps wings and clucks like a chicken*

 

As somebody who voted him to begin the game, what do you think of his back and forth with Darthe about Jack?

[Clovdyx]

Also, is there a tendency to include village idiot roles in games here, or is that not a thing? 

[Cory Caboose]

Rare in my experience.

[Niniel]

Also, is there a tendency to include village idiot roles in games here, or is that not a thing? 

 

I have never heard about that role. Is it like a jester?