[Advanced] Catching Fire mafia - Game over!

[Lenlo]

I feel the worst about Krak and Hallia. Krak jumped on TG from the get go and I feel like he was trying to get TG lynched fast. Hallia its just gut.

 

Pral... I jumped the gun on Pral. I overreacted to his shoddy case on me. Im agreeing with Vos now that its prolly town on town.

 

##unvote vote Krak

[dapianoplay3r]

In my wot, the four names that came up were

Amega

Rhea

TG

Nervo

 

Bottom two can now be excluded due to claims. That leaves rhea (I haven't heard much from from memory) and amega (on TGs train)

 

I think amega is the one I'll look at due to my limited time

[nervositee]

Ok I guess that makes sense

I'm leaving for work in 4 hours and I'm out basically all day tomorrow so I don't really have those two days.

You said the people who jumped on that train quickly you were watching

So out of amega, hally! and krak, who do you think is the most scummy (add me and Nervo to the list if you want. We both I'd we would vote once he had made a comment first)

 

You are awfully quick to blindly accept the mason-claim? I'm not saying it's false - but you didn't even flinch?

 

Wouldn't two scum-buddies claiming masons be the perfect way to try to avoid being lynched? 

 

Especially in a hunger-games mafia, where there are two contestants from each district, so more mason-teams than one could easily be possible, ie. making their claim un-CC-able?

 

I especially dislike the fact that he first waited this long, then suddenly claims because "I decided it had been long enough and that if we were gonna do anything legitimate today I needed to say something now". Then proceeding to saying we have two RL days left so we have plenty of time. I dunno, but I'm not entirely sold. 

 

Further dislike that you (dap) were hell bent on voting TG, but after the claim spinning it around with "So out of amega, hally! and krak, who do you think is the most scummy (add me and Nervo to the list if you want. We both I'd we would vote once he had made a comment first)" strategically placing yourself with me, instead of the others. 

 

Before this I had you as solid town, so I'm not sure if I read you as naïve or you are showing your scum colors here. 

[Lenlo]

 

Ok I guess that makes sense

I'm leaving for work in 4 hours and I'm out basically all day tomorrow so I don't really have those two days.

You said the people who jumped on that train quickly you were watching

So out of amega, hally! and krak, who do you think is the most scummy (add me and Nervo to the list if you want. We both I'd we would vote once he had made a comment first)

 

You are awfully quick to blindly accept the mason-claim? I'm not saying it's false - but you didn't even flinch?

 

Wouldn't two scum-buddies claiming masons be the perfect way to try to avoid being lynched? 

 

No. If one of us gets viewed or in any way is shown to be scum we both go down. Claiming masons with someone to try and save them is a horrible idea. Trust me. Tried it.

 

Especially in a hunger-games mafia, where there are two contestants from each district, so more mason-teams than one could easily be possible, ie. making their claim un-CC-able?

 

Masons are always unCCable. The trust generally comes from it being completely and utterly stupid to claim masons as scum. You are literally tieing your lives together. One comes up scum you both go down.

 

I especially dislike the fact that he first waited this long, then suddenly claims because "I decided it had been long enough and that if we were gonna do anything legitimate today I needed to say something now". Then proceeding to saying we have two RL days left so we have plenty of time. I dunno, but I'm not entirely sold. 

 

Whats wrong with me waiting? I didnt want to reveal it because it can potentially make me and TG targets to be NKed.  I wanted to avoid that so that we atleast knew 2 people were town making it easier for us to scum hunt. Besides 2 days is plenty of time.

 

Further dislike that you (dap) were hell bent on voting TG, but after the claim spinning it around with "So out of amega, hally! and krak, who do you think is the most scummy (add me and Nervo to the list if you want. We both I'd we would vote once he had made a comment first)" strategically placing yourself with me, instead of the others. 

 

Before this I had you as solid town, so I'm not sure if I read you as naïve or you are showing your scum colors here. 

 

[dapianoplay3r]

Ok did a quick browse through those three people's posts

This is what stood out to me

 

Same here, I didn't know it was due to the wedge though

Some people claim the wedge and hally quickly jumps on. Weird thing is she doesn't seem aware that it was wedge related, yet everyone else seemed to know.

 

Also around the 175 post mark

Amega pushes Nervo about wanting to look at inactives. Nothing exciting though so I've not quoted

 

 

 

I would like to hard claim mafia and see what all of you do.

 

This claim may or may not be accurate and has no more weight than a claim of town, but let us postulate on what affect it has to make a legitimate null claim with a negative stigma associated with it rather than a positive.

 

Shall we?

 

 

So Darthe "hard claims mafia"

 

 

Then CS comes in with:

 

 

 

I agree with Darthe about early town claim or scum claim not being a tell either way.

We have an advanced game with unknown mechanics however. This experimental clock design might have interesting stuff

So I'll treat scum claims by voting them.

Simple? Yes. But it seems like the way to go.

 

 

CS, you claim to agree with Darthe about an early claim, of either faction, being null (or as you put it, "not a tell"), and yet you go on to contradict yourself 

 

here:

 

 

 

 

 

Salami has done so within the first ten pages of at least eight games in recent memory and yet here he argues that he wants to lynch anyone for doing the same except with the word mafia. Yet he doesnt vote me. What does this say to you?

 

Let's see.

I never "claimed town". Moreover, even the question is wrong as it (from you I believe deliberately) confuses, mixes up situations."Claiming town" is not null in an advanced game. Claiming scum is not null either. Worse, they are in no way equal.I argue I'd like to lynch anyone who claims scum on this game. Cause it's not null. It can only help Maffia.

You haven't claimed anything.

 

Furthermore, what you say in italics is contradictory to your actions as you aren't voting for Darthe after he hard claimed scum.  If you were arguing about Darthe's claim specifically then that's one thing, but you're not, you're arguing about general play and it seems that you've stumbled over your words a few times because of it.

 

 

##unvote, vote CS

 

 

Also, this argument about LDs is ridiculous in this thread, take it elsewhere please.

 

This appears just after dice was calling out Csarmi

Krak is defending dice

 

 

so at 5 on sunday. i got affected. if i died in 24 hours no coroner report would be given

 

I'm adding this cos if he does flip mafia we know my crazy theory is bust

He is the first to mention being effected by a sector we did not know the properties of

 

 

 

 

 

 

dude do you ever NOT have a scum read on me?

 

Yup. When you're town.

you dont really have anything to on with this csarmi? It sounds like you always think he's scum so whats different about this game?

And here is when amega starts defending dice

  

Csarmi you want a stance? I think that your engagement with darthe about the semantics behind null claims and scumtell and everything else was a hindrance and a total waste of day one. Your list of reads is a joke as X has thoroughly pointed out and while its an effort its not one you can really stand behind and put any weight on. Your getting my vote cause you hopped on Darthe's post harder than anyone else in the game, And it seems like your every where trying to garner Town cred. With your fluff reads.

 

##VOTE CSARMI

And here is when he full on goes for Csarmi after he just voted dice

 

I'm also noticing that hally is just making single line comments about stuff people say about her, not red ally contributing much. It's not much but I do tend to find that mafia are more interested I'm defending themselves than casing others.

 

At this point, those four from scummist to townyiest

Amega

Krak

Hally

Rhea (who has done jack all)

 

Suh-wheet

The response to dices flip. Sounds pretty fake to me

 

 

 

 

 

 

@TG game was dead before Darthe started his fun. Also why the 180-turn?

At first I viewed it as no big deal and took what Darthe did as a mostly null/slight town move to fish for reactions, see who would jump, etc.. But now, looking back at D1 now there has been absolutely nothing of consequence that happened and it started with Darthe's derailment and continued lecturing.ALSO, DEADLINE PEOPLE!

Well I don't think that discussion is the reason people been playing slacky.So what about this alternate theory. You're making your U-turn because at this rate your scummate Dice is getting lynched and thus you need to try and find a mislynch somewhere.

Exactly what I was thinking.

 

In hindsight this could be krak trying to ride on a towns coattail so for cred, but at the time I read this as rather genuine and town.

 

 

so Krak you just made this big speech about prayla not voting for who look suspicious and Lenlo bandwagoning and X looking scumy but vote TG?

  

I find this a lot worse. It's only a page after krak agrees with Csarmi about TG, but amega immediately tries to call him out and make him took scummy

What's more is amega sounds really disheartened when krak just explains himself

 

 

 

In which case, if you agreed to the extent you are willing to go with csarmis reasoning now without further discussion on it, why didn't you change your vote on him before he flipped?

 

 

First I agreed with what CS said, but that doesn't really matter regarding CS' alignment.  Dice's flip, however, made it clear to me that CS was town.  Then, of course, CS' flip confirmed that.  

 

The point is that TG made a "joke vote" in the very beginning and didn't change it until a train on Dice began.  Call it what you will, but to me three people is a train, especially with under 24 hours until the deadline.  Then, once Dice had 3 votes, TG flipped to Darthe, in my opinion the only other really viable candidate due to public opinion and his "mafia hard claim."  It seems pretty clear that it was a clumsy attempt to protect a teammate, and with Dice's flip as strong-arm I can understand why.

 

 

So yeah, TG for me is the best candidate.

 

This is probably why I feel krak is town. His explanation is like the cliff notes version of my case

I do see the link you are getting at Len though

 

 

I think that's a really good argument for TG.  And someone asked if you can get affected twice; I just did, although my lynchproof is gone, it was only good for the one day. 

 

##Vote TGlems

 

Here is one of Hallys biggest stands this game. Kinda sums up hally this game pretty much. She follows someone else and concentrates on herself.

She hasn't done anything scummy per say but she does bother me

 

Len you ninjas me so I'll cover this now

 

I feel the worst about Krak and Hallia. Krak jumped on TG from the get go and I feel like he was trying to get TG lynched fast. Hallia its just gut.

 

Pral... I jumped the gun on Pral. I overreacted to his shoddy case on me. Im agreeing with Vos now that its prolly town on town.

 

##unvote vote Krak

 

I get the gut on hally. I think I'm getting it cos she keeps defending herself and never really anything else.

I bet she will appear and make a detailed post about this post but pretty much ignore everything else

Speak of the devil and all

 

Krak, like I said above, i had as one of my town reads. However I know I sometimes get blinded by people agreeing with me.

I think amega is worse however.

 

My response in green

 

 

 

Ok I guess that makes sense

I'm leaving for work in 4 hours and I'm out basically all day tomorrow so I don't really have those two days.

You said the people who jumped on that train quickly you were watching

So out of amega, hally! and krak, who do you think is the most scummy (add me and Nervo to the list if you want. We both I'd we would vote once he had made a comment first)

 

 

You are awfully quick to blindly accept the mason-claim? I'm not saying it's false - but you didn't even flinch?

its the same way I accepted your claim. I like to sort things in mafia; I start with the people unclaimed first, then target the claimed once those have run out. Mafia don't tend to fake claim too often, and when they do they often get CC. So a mason claim I can accept and not worry about until proven false or countered.

So far I've had largely success with this system and only a few mishaps

 

Wouldn't two scum-buddies claiming masons be the perfect way to try to avoid being lynched? 

 its a hard claim to pull off and if one goes down then you both go down.

I don't think a mafia team would risk two players to save one at this point, especially since it's D2 and they are down a member already.

You forget they have far less people who are expendable

 

Especially in a hunger-games mafia, where there are two contestants from each district, so more mason-teams than one could easily be possible, ie. making their claim un-CC-able?

in the first hunger games I'd say yes. In this one half the people were on one big team and there were only like 3 "bad guys"

The rest were all just there to bring down the games really.

 

I especially dislike the fact that he first waited this long, then suddenly claims because "I decided it had been long enough and that if we were gonna do anything legitimate today I needed to say something now". Then proceeding to saying we have two RL days left so we have plenty of time. I dunno, but I'm not entirely sold. 

 neither was I at first. But look back, it's only been 24 hours or so since all the votes rolled in. I agree with Len that I would rather remain unclaimed and try let my partner dig themselves out of the hole first.

 

Further dislike that you (dap) were hell bent on voting TG, but after the claim spinning it around with "So out of amega, hally! and krak, who do you think is the most scummy (add me and Nervo to the list if you want. We both I'd we would vote once he had made a comment first)" strategically placing yourself with me, instead of the others. 

 it's cos we both said the same "ill vote after hearing from TG"

I would of included more people if more and done it.

You can include me with the others if you want but I don't think I should be as I also felt the train was moving fast so withheld a vote

 

Before this I had you as solid town, so I'm not sure if I read you as naïve or you are showing your scum colors here.

you would not be the first to try and change me accepting claims basically blind. Greater than you have tried

Right all up to date.

Amega is more likely mafia to me but krak has had his fair share of moments.

Hally leaves me uncomfortable, where rhea hasn't really done much that I can remember at all.

[amegakure]

i agree with cloud.. and interesting point about the multiple two man teams for mafia.. that would be and interesting setup. 

 

Not sure if i read Dap as scummy tho.. 

 

Lenlo im also part of the train. any words about me or are you just interesting in nudging a lynch on krak, so you and your scum partners dont end up the nxt two lynches?

[Lenlo]

i agree with cloud.. and interesting point about the multiple two man teams for mafia.. that would be and interesting setup. 

 

Not sure if i read Dap as scummy tho.. 

 

Lenlo im also part of the train. any words about me or are you just interesting in nudging a lynch on krak, so you and your scum partners dont end up the nxt two lynches?

And here I was just about to say something. I didnt have as much a problem with you until now. This along with Daps case makes me perfectly ok with lynching you or Krak now though. And nudging a lynch on Krak? Im not nudging anything im driving full on down the track so dont try and use buzz words to paint me red.

 

Amega why in the 7 hells would I come out and claim masons with TG if we were scum? The moment he gets lynched if you dont believe me I die to. It would be so much better for me to just roll with it and get him lynched fast to look good. You using my not pushing you and the mason claim to call me scum is weak.

 

So people im ok with lynching today

Krak

Amega

Hallia

 

People im not ok with lynching today

Me

TG

Leaning towards Dap as well.

[amegakure]

I really do like the linkage you put here but your kinda misconstruing the information that was present.. It does line up pretty neatly for you tho.

 

amegakure, on 04 Mar 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:

 

csarmi, on 04 Mar 2014 - 12:04 PM, said:

 

dicetosser1, on 04 Mar 2014 - 11:58 AM, said:

dude do you ever NOT have a scum read on me?

Yup. When you're town.

you dont really have anything to on with this csarmi? It sounds like you always think he's scum so whats different about this game?

And here is when amega starts defending dice

 

To be clear this is not how i would defend dice. I just thought Csarmi's conviction was a little fake, a little unaware on how well he knew dice's tells.. Was looking for his reactions  and he gave them and asked me to take a stance or said something along the lines so i did in the post below which was solely about the deviation he made the game take by jumping on darthe's post. 
  

amegakure, on 05 Mar 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

Csarmi you want a stance? I think that your engagement with darthe about the semantics behind null claims and scumtell and everything else was a hindrance and a total waste of day one. Your list of reads is a joke as X has thoroughly pointed out and while its an effort its not one you can really stand behind and put any weight on. Your getting my vote cause you hopped on Darthe's post harder than anyone else in the game, And it seems like your every where trying to garner Town cred. With your fluff reads.
 
##VOTE CSARMI

And here is when he full on goes for Csarmi after he just voted dice

 

 

Am i right in assuming that mason's have the same wincon/alignment as town?

[nervositee]

Am i right in assuming that mason's have the same wincon/alignment as town?

 

 

Masons are town aligned. 

 

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mason

[nervositee]

Lenlo/Dap: Good points on the risk of fake-claiming mason. I'm not 100% sold on Daps reaction to this, but in the context of his play in this game I still read him as town. 

 

Going to bed. Happy hunting. 

[nervositee]

Not too much fan of that our top scum reads has few enough posts that we don't have more to go on

 

But hey, what can you do?

 

## Vote Hallia 

[hazelkrs1]

Official Vote Count:

 

TG (3): Krak, Hallia, Amega
Lenlo (1): Pray

Krak (1): Lenlo

Hallia (1): Vos

Not Voting (8): Darthe, Xhtrax, TG, Monk, Dap, Verb, Time, Rhea

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Deadline is here

 

Pretty sure this was already mentioned, but we are currently looking into a replacement for Rhea. Will let you know as soon as one is procured.

 

Also, this is a gentle reminder that the deadline is on a weekend... so yeah. If there isn't a ton of activity, please do not be "that guy" (or gal) who complains about a weekend deadline. We are fair and just mods, and I could talk to Mish about extending the deadline if it came down to it, but having little to no activity won't give us much reason to do so.

[Lenlo]

Cmoooon people. We need people to show up so we can lynch the scuuuum.

[nervositee]

I would like to add, for the record, that I was blocked tonight.

 

Prob. a good old-fashioned scum RB'er. Just be aware so our PR's don't claim without really having to. 

[Pralaya]

(caught up)

 

@Pralaya - don't you think it is a null tell to be casing Lenlo on wanting to know the setup of the wedges?  I mean, Salami went as far as make a running list, and we know he was town.  I'm not sure Lenlo wanting to gain this info as well means he's scum.

 

True,  but that was neither the only reason nor the main reason for my vote. That was just a part of my case. I was not satisfied with the inconsistencies in Lenlo's responses over his vote on Dice, which looked really suspicious. As mentioned, it was 8 hours before the deadline despite him claiming to consolidate and also his claim that he wouldn't be around doesn't make sense because he had at least 2-3 posts after that vote and before deadline.

 

Anyway, he has claimed mason. I agree with Lenlo that it is a risky move for a scum. So, for now, ##unvote Lenlo

[Pralaya]

 

Am i right in assuming that mason's have the same wincon/alignment as town?

 

 

Masons are town aligned. 

 

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mason

 

 

Most of the games, it is. But not necessarily. Basel had a game where the masons were both 3-rd party survivors.

In this game, I think they are town aligned.

[michellem]

Rhea has asked to be replaced and Tress will be taking over for her, but she can only be active from Monday, so the deadline will be extended to give her time to catch up and start posting.

[Darthe]

So let's talk TG.  Y he get votes?

[Pralaya]

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/87846-advanced-catching-fire-mafia-day-two/page-19?do=findComment&comment=3178602

 

That;s the case which krak made and amega and hally sheeped it blatantly. Just in case you missed it, Lenlo claimed mason with TG.

[Verbal32]

 

 

 

 

Am i right in assuming that mason's have the same wincon/alignment as town?

 

Masons are town aligned.

 

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mason

Most of the games, it is. But not necessarily. Basel had a game where the masons were both 3-rd party survivors.

In this game, I think they are town aligned.

Then they weren't Masons. Masons are only town-aligned.

 

@Lenlo - careful of your wifom with the whole 'scum don't claim Masons' bit. Think about it. Risky? Sure, but one helluva payoff if town buys it. You won't be lynched, and if scum, you won't be NKed. Selling it to town is essentially a free pass to endgame without suspicion.

 

High risk, high reward. That said, I don't think you'd try that....it doesn't fit my profiling of you as a player...especially given you've tried it and failed. I'm solid town on both you and TG, though I admit meta plays into this decision.

[Verbal32]

I'm gonna read the case on Krak (and ISO once I'm on a PC), and jump in there.

[Lenlo]

Awe what's that's supposed to mean. I've made some fun claims that have worked out as mafia before.

 

Your right though it is potentially a free pass to endgame.

[monk2310]

I agree with you on the amag case, Lenlo.

[amegakure]

Your barking up the wrong tree if you think a lynch on me is a good idea. The only thing you have to look at is my opinion on Csarmi and sure i jumped on the Tg vote but there where some good points on him until we got Lenlo's claim which it seems to held in high regard by town. 4 votes for pressure isnt exactly scummy. 

 

I also am inclined to believe so for now. 

 

##unvote TG

 

 

well that stinks... I wasn't around... :(

 

I thought I should mention before I catch up that I was affected by the time yesterday...

 

Which effect did you get? Double vote?

 

This looks like fishing

 

 

Just out of curiosity, why vote Darthe instead of Vos?  Is it because you think Darthe is likelier to have a power role, or because you think he's the better player?  Or neither?

 

 

Darthe was my primary scum read while Vos felt scummy in connection with Darthe. Hence the focus on Darthe. Apparently I was wrong on the latter.

 

 

Krak calls him out for fishing 

Game is not moving.

 

Dice was not the only one who had been fishing for sector effects. Lenlo was one of the first who had been trying really hard to understand what the effects are. This was  already pointed out by Csarmi. Here, is where he  started trying to get more info 

 

So that means 3 people were probably caught in a sector. Sounds painful.

 

From the book heres a list of the known sectors and what they did. 

 

From 12-1: Lightning hits a single tree over and over.

1-2: Blood rain.

2-3: Acid fog

3-4: Evil monkeys attack people

4-5: Jabberjays screw with peoples heads with screams.

6-7: Beasts attack people

10-11: Tidal Wave.

 

I know theres afew times missing but hey they werent mentioned in the book. One of those not mentioned, coincidentally, is 9-10 which is what just rung. Probably be difficult to find out who was affected seeing as how not everyone has checked in. I suggest everytime this happens, if they are allowed and it doesnt kill them, someone caught in it tells us. Least then we can try and figure it out.

 

And, here is where he started getting desperate

 

 

 

Looks like were going backwards sequentially. Next ring will probably by 6.

 

Im kinda annoyed no one who was caught in 9 has come forward yet though. Seriously where are people. Know its the weekend but still.

 

 

Also, not liking this response from him when Csarmi questioned him. The last time I heard something like this, that person was mafia. It is a bad AtE where Lenlo is badly trying to mask his meta

 

 

If you want me to chill and be useless I can do that. I tend to not be very helpful to town when I do that though.

 

 

He votes Dice just before Dice claims tracker. When Krak suspected a bandwagon vote, his response was that he wanted to consolidate close to deadline. Really? It was still 8 hours for the deadline. There were two trains running in parallel. He had already suspected Darthe but still he goes ahead and votes Dice to "consilidate"?

 

 

I jumped on to consolidate so yes it was def a bandwagon vote so we didn't go random.

 

 

Then when dice claims tracker, he comes back with a classic scum line about others "trying to consolidate" and pre-empting FoS on the votes that follows.

 

Now we have only to wait for the quiet people to pop in and pile onto someone before the deadline.

 

 

In short, Lenlo has been fishing and his response when confronted was weak. Similarly, his distancing vote on dice just before he claimed tracker and trying to spin it as a consolidation vote doesnt look good either. 

 

##vote Lenlo

Then he spins a tail on Lenlo for "fishing" where it looks to me that he is breaking down the mechanics and not fishing for peoples current powers or disadvantages.

 

##vote Pray

[Pralaya]

Talk about grasping at straws or a frantic push  now that TG has been claimed mason 
 

 

 

well that stinks... I wasn't around... :(
 
I thought I should mention before I catch up that I was affected by the time yesterday...

 
Which effect did you get? Double vote?

 

This looks like fishing

 

 
Really? How is it fishing when we know all the effects, in sectors where someone has screamed so far? (Note that section 10 came after my post). Especially AFTER the 24 hour period has been over? What am I trying to fish?
 

 

 

Just out of curiosity, why vote Darthe instead of Vos?  Is it because you think Darthe is likelier to have a power role, or because you think he's the better player?  Or neither?

 
Darthe was my primary scum read while Vos felt scummy in connection with Darthe. Hence the focus on Darthe. Apparently I was wrong on the latter.

 

 
Krak calls him out for fishing

 

No, he just asked my why I voted one over the other. Maybe you need to understand what "fishing" exactly is.
 

Then he spins a tail on Lenlo for "fishing" where it looks to me that he is breaking down the mechanics and not fishing for peoples current powers or disadvantages.
 
##vote Pray

First, look at my reply to verbal. After that, try to answer me who has been fishing for "current power or disadvantages" .