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 A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

[Basic] Christmas Mentors & Maffia

csarmi

By csarmi
in DM Mafia Games

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Tommyrod Grand Master

Tommyrod

Posted
Posted

Which you can then eat, for it is you who will be in need of humble pie.

Can't tell you how tired I am of the "you're wrong I'm town so haha you're dumb" defense in mafia games. It's like a plague spreading around the community. I'll make you the same offer I make everyone I could be wrong about: present a compelling case for someone who is scummier than you. Show us who our focus should be on, and not just one or two lines of basic reasoning. I want a real case.

Nolder Spam Master

Nolder

Posted
Posted

Nolder, your approach last phase was "anything but what Peace and Tom say!" and now you're doing it again. Your polarized stance unnecessarily got a townie lynched yesterday. How do you figure that your reasoning is appropriate or acceptable as we approach MyLo/LyLo? As I've explained, there's [very nearly] zero chance Peace and I could be scum-scum in this game, and I feel good about him not being scum. Re-read the beginning of the game and tell me again how Peace and I could be a scumteam because you're bordering on delusional. Once we lynch Hoof for the scum-flip I am going to expect a freshly baked humble pie.

You're putting Krak's lynch on me? First of all I'm only one vote in a larger train, as is always the case.

Secondly I defended Krak earlier and only started doubting myself after an entire game of hearing "Krak is scum!" from what seemed like everyone.

 

As for my stance, yes it is polar of Peace and will remain that way.

I'm convinced he's scum and it doesn't make any sense to vote with him.

As for you, I admit the case isn't as solid as Peace. You are just the runner up.

When Peace is lynched I will be willing to hear the cases but for now, as you seem to do everything he does anyway,I will associate you with him.

Nolder Spam Master

Nolder

Posted
Posted

 

Which you can then eat, for it is you who will be in need of humble pie.

Can't tell you how tired I am of the "you're wrong I'm town so haha you're dumb" defense in mafia games. It's like a plague spreading around the community. I'll make you the same offer I make everyone I could be wrong about: present a compelling case for someone who is scummier than you. Show us who our focus should be on, and not just one or two lines of basic reasoning. I want a real case.

 

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Tommyrod Grand Master

Tommyrod

Posted
Posted

 

 

 

 

Nolder, your approach last phase was "anything but what Peace and Tom say!" and now you're doing it again. Your polarized stance unnecessarily got a townie lynched yesterday. How do you figure that your reasoning is appropriate or acceptable as we approach MyLo/LyLo? As I've explained, there's [very nearly] zero chance Peace and I could be scum-scum in this game, and I feel good about him not being scum. Re-read the beginning of the game and tell me again how Peace and I could be a scumteam because you're bordering on delusional. Once we lynch Hoof for the scum-flip I am going to expect a freshly baked humble pie.

 

You're putting Krak's lynch on me? First of all I'm only one vote in a larger train, as is always the case.

Secondly I defended Krak earlier and only started doubting myself after an entire game of hearing "Krak is scum!" from what seemed like everyone.

 

As for my stance, yes it is polar of Peace and will remain that way.

I'm convinced he's scum and it doesn't make any sense to vote with him.

As for you, I admit the case isn't as solid as Peace. You are just the runner up.

When Peace is lynched I will be willing to hear the cases but for now, as you seem to do everything he does anyway,I will associate you with him.

Please highlight the parallels between myself and Peace so I can set you straight. I was under the impression that people were linking me to Cloud, if anything. For you to link me to Peace makes me think you're not paying attention... and that's coming from a guy who hasn't read about 20% of the thread.
Tommyrod Grand Master

Tommyrod

Posted
Posted

It wasn't a defence, more an observation. I am not silly enough to think that that would cause anyone to change their minds.

You have two options:

1. Fight for your life (hint: this is the pro town option)

2. Sit back and jab at us uselessly (hint: this is the scummy option)

 

Which you choose is up to you, but if you are a townie pulling no weight I'll be extremely disappointed if we lose due to collapse of the town after lynching scum D1. I said this would be a quick game when we lynched Golden and now it's dragging on and we appear unable to reach a consensus on players who are scummier than the rest. Thinking about it, you're a good candidate for survivor since you don't seem too concerned with providing us with the next lynch... if you didn't have that odd interaction with Golden in very early game which tips the scales into the scum category.

Nolder Spam Master

Nolder

Posted
Posted

 

 

 

 

Nolder, your approach last phase was "anything but what Peace and Tom say!" and now you're doing it again. Your polarized stance unnecessarily got a townie lynched yesterday. How do you figure that your reasoning is appropriate or acceptable as we approach MyLo/LyLo? As I've explained, there's [very nearly] zero chance Peace and I could be scum-scum in this game, and I feel good about him not being scum. Re-read the beginning of the game and tell me again how Peace and I could be a scumteam because you're bordering on delusional. Once we lynch Hoof for the scum-flip I am going to expect a freshly baked humble pie.

You're putting Krak's lynch on me? First of all I'm only one vote in a larger train, as is always the case.

Secondly I defended Krak earlier and only started doubting myself after an entire game of hearing "Krak is scum!" from what seemed like everyone.

 

As for my stance, yes it is polar of Peace and will remain that way.

I'm convinced he's scum and it doesn't make any sense to vote with him.

As for you, I admit the case isn't as solid as Peace. You are just the runner up.

When Peace is lynched I will be willing to hear the cases but for now, as you seem to do everything he does anyway,I will associate you with him.

Please highlight the parallels between myself and Peace so I can set you straight. I was under the impression that people were linking me to Cloud, if anything. For you to link me to Peace makes me think you're not paying attention... and that's coming from a guy who hasn't read about 20% of the thread.

 

Voting record for one.

 

 

It wasn't a defence, more an observation. I am not silly enough to think that that would cause anyone to change their minds.

You have two options:

1. Fight for your life (hint: this is the pro town option)

2. Sit back and jab at us uselessly (hint: this is the scummy option)

 

Which you choose is up to you, but if you are a townie pulling no weight I'll be extremely disappointed if we lose due to collapse of the town after lynching scum D1. I said this would be a quick game when we lynched Golden and now it's dragging on and we appear unable to reach a consensus on players who are scummier than the rest. Thinking about it, you're a good candidate for survivor since you don't seem too concerned with providing us with the next lynch... if you didn't have that odd interaction with Golden in very early game which tips the scales into the scum category.

 

This is a good post. I don't think you're scum or survivor Blackhoof but you gotta step it up for us.

BFG Spam Master

BFG

Posted
Posted

Tommy - if your remaining mafia are Hoof and Via then why would Via be on every Mafia train? 

 

 

[deleted]

 

@ Turin - I thought you didn't like it when people put themselves down as town in their read lists and stuff - or is it different because you are doing it?

 

@ Krak - you have misquoted Turin in your post at 464 - what makes it worse is that you have included Turin's post in yours. I don't know whether you have just misread, or have tried to twist Turin's words here, but tried to do it subtly by just swapping two words round

 

@ Golden - I have more than 1 post. yes I am still only in single digits I know, because I replaced in. But by saying that I have only posted once means to me you have not actually read the thread, you are putting all these opinions out there but you are actually skimming

 

I also find this (bolded) interesting.  Via, what did you interpret this to mean?  As in why did Krak do it?

 

 

Via - I still want an answer to this.  Why did you focus on the word switch instead of the bigger statement of Turin thinking me not Town?

 

 

Well, at least we got a good laugh out of it :laugh:

 

Not letting you off that easy. 

 

 

 

Any follow up to this?

 

hmmm I am uncertain that Peace is mafia. he did lead the lynch on Golden after all. He attacked cloud, but so did Krak.

 

So from this statement you think 2 of Via, Tommy & Cloud are the remaining mafia - I want reasons!

 

Deadline in 36h.

 

Stupid morning deadlines *grumbles*

BFG Spam Master

BFG

Posted
Posted

Can everyone post their opinions on each of the remaining players?

 

(I will do the same, but it may be a bit later tonight as I'm out for dinner)

BFG Spam Master

BFG

Posted
Posted

 

The setup of this game still seems weird to me.

 

3 mafia, 11 town, with a mason team, a doc and an innicent child? A mason team is roughly a cop in power, but the innocent child unbalances it in the town's favour, it seems. And there is no serial killer, evidently. A survivor isn't much of an anti-town replacement for an SK.

Yeah I dunno. 3/14 is within the 20-30% range for scum although it's on the low side, especially with the roles we have.

Maybe they have a Watcher or a Tracker to balance things out?

 

 

They don't.  Masons may balance out the cop, but no cop does turn every goon into a GF effectively (that's also pretty powerful).  Still think it's either a team of 3 or a team of 3 and a Survivor.  But I'd rather lynch mafia and be sure :)

 

List of possible roles in the game:

  • Vanilla (VT/Goon) - Can be either Town or Mafia. They have no night actions. People tend to call roleless mafia members goons.
  • Godfather (GF) - Alignment: Mafia. Views as Town.
  • Roleblocker (RB) - Alignment: Can be either Town or Mafia. Can prevent another player's night action from taking effect. This action itself cannot be blocked. Can be X-shot.
  • Finder (Cop) - Alignment: Town. Learns the alignment of a player. Can be x-shot.
  • Healer(Doc) - Alignment: Town. Protects a player from dying. Can be x-shot.
  • Vigilante (Vig) - Alignment: Town. Can target a player for kill (NK). Can be x-shot.
  • Serial Killer - Alignment: 3rd Party. Can target a player for kill (NK). May or may not receive 1-shot DeathProof (good against a lynch or a night kill). Wins when everyone else is dead, or nothing can stop it from happening.
  • Survivor - Alignment: 3rd Party. May or may not receive 1-shot commute (if activated, the player can't be targeted for a night). Wins with both Mafia or Town.
  • Lover - Alignment: Can be either Town/Town or Town/Mafia. If one of them is targeted for a kill, both of them die. Lovers may or may not share a QT (private talk).
  • Mason - Alignment: Town. Two or more players who are confirmed town for one another. Masons may or may not share a QT (private talk).
  • Innocent Child - Alignment: Town. This player is confirmed to be town by the mod. No other special powers.
  • Full list of possible role PM's in spoilers:

 

BFG Spam Master

BFG

Posted
Posted

 

 

Sorry dear. Morning to me too.

 

No worries :biggrin:

 

Well, you're the host. When would you like the deadline to be?

 

 

lol

BFG Spam Master

BFG

Posted
Posted

[deleted]

 

List of Players:
  • 01 - Peace
  • 02 - Cloud (mentored by Darthe)
  • 03 - Krak (mentored by Verb) - Vanilla Town - lynched D3
  • 04 - GoldenEyes (mentored by Despothera) - Maffia Goon - lynched D1
  • 05 - TommyRod
  • 06 - Leelou (mentored by Wombat) - Town Masons - killed N2
  • 07 - Theodora (replaced by Key) - Town Masons - killed N3
  • 08 - Elffern (mentored by Dap) - Vanilla Town - modkilled D3 (inactivity)
  • 09 - Hally (mentored by Yates) - Vanilla Town - lynched D2
  • 10 - BFG - Innocent Child
  • 11 - Via (advised by Kaylee)
  • 12 - Nolder
  • 13 - BlackHoof
  • 14 - Turin (advised by Pray) - Vanilla Town - killed N1

 

 

Just to bring it to peoples attention. 

Tommyrod Grand Master

Tommyrod

Posted
Posted

BFG: after losing scum D1 I would expect panic and a heavy amount of distancing between the remaining mafia. Bussing scumbros is not unusual even outside of those circumstances. But that's why I think Golden's D1 interactions will have more telling impact than later voting patterns. Was Via the leading figure on the Golden lynch? Or any lynch? Peace led Golden lynch and Hoof was on Nolder D1. (As was Golden). I also have another theory but it may be too much conjecture without another confirmed scum flip.

Elaevia Master

Elaevia

Posted
Posted

 

Current thoughts on the List of Players:

  • 01 - Peace:  The refusal to directly state his reasons for voting elf was a bit weird but it was fairly obvious to me that he was saying that he agreed with Cloud's case against her. The snark fest with Tommy is fiesty peace. Slight town lean
  • 02 - Cloud (mentored by Darthe): Severe buddying to Tommy. ("yes sir"? ) as well as chainsaw defense with regards to elf's case against Tommy. He has been quite eager to get thru D1 it appears. This is usually more evident in mafia members that have good roles they want to utilize. The "i'm excited for this game" line doesn't fly for me. When you made the comment "when are we going to lynch Turin or Hoof" there wasn't much hoofie discussion yet. I was wondering why you picked him to put in there with me. You were following Tommy onto me so that I get but why hoofie at that point? or was Darthe pulling your strings there like with the Leelou is town thing? Mafia #2
  • 03 - Krak (mentored by Verb) not much here yet to me. seemed to be primarily peanut gallery type posts. Undecided.
  • 04 - GoldenEyes (mentored by Despothera) his vote on elf came across as a bad Despo impersonation. Like he wanted to sound like Depso but didn't want to put in the effort to multi quote. Just looks like lazy play so far. undecided tho.
  • 05 - TommyRod: Mafia #1. attempting to lead the town.  advocated the "look at inactives" it works every time. Only the SithMafia deal in absolutes. A few other things.  Is Cloud more pro-town than you are? You are constantly defending each other and working together too much.
  • 06 - Leelou (mentored by Wombat) Are you still voting Nolder? You accused me of parking my vote on Tommy but you put your vote on Nolder before he even checked in. maybe hypocrisy is the new black. And if I am tunneling and trying to get him voted out for whatever reason my vote isn't parked. Added to the Tommy defender team. The little shot Night 0 could easily be a distance ploy. If Tommy is mafia like I think then she could very well be also. mafia lean.
  • 07 - Theodora (mentored by Key) Only thing I recall is her early call out of Hoof for claiming Hoof... Were you serious about that? I wasn't sure if it was sarcasm or not... Undecided
  • 08 - Elffern (mentored by Dap) The interaction with Tommy early was interesting. I think she was trying to say that She found Tommy pushing for everyone to play his game off. The not voting until later in the day especially on D1 is classic Dap from about 9 months ago. That she has adopted it is reasonable I guess since she has been away for a while. town lean  
  • 09 - Hally (mentored by Yates) More posting please ( yates must be turning over in his grim reaper hut) Incomplete. 
  • 10 - BFG - Innocent Child -Back away form the alcohol and post more please. you are the only person we know is trying to help town win so all input and thoughts are valuable
  • 11 - dansyc (mentored by Kaylee) ABSENT Waiting for replacement
  • 12 - Nolder: didn't like his advice to BFG. Also didn't like that he called cloud out for actively trying to get a lynch on D1. There is no such thing as pressuring without the intent to lynch. it is like saying that you are voting someone to pressure them. If the votee doesn't think that you are serious then they will just ignore your vote. Also has been fairly reasonable which is usually a sign of mafia Nolder. slight edge to mafia lean. 
  • 13 - BlackHoof: was behaving with just the one silly Blackhoof post which caught Thea's attention. Leaning town still at present
  • 14 - Turin (advised by Pray) Town. but only I know that at present.

 

Mafia: Tommy, Cloud, maybe nolder, maybe Leelou. 

 

Town: BFG, Turin. 

 

. 23 hour day at present. Good  Night now

 

This post is crap.

 

 

A) Feels need to include himself in reads, like we believe that he's town based on his own insistence.  I love that last part, "but I only know that at present."  That suggests two things: 1) He isn't sure he's town, and 2) He doesn't believe BFG is town.  

B) Weak read on Golden

C) Has Cloud as scum #2, and yet hates on Nolder for "calling cloud out for actively trying to get a lynch on D1" in the same post.

D) There is completely such a thing as "pressuring without the intent to lynch."  I've done it so many times that myself alone makes you as incorrect as Nixon (or whoever) when he declared Marijuana a gateway drug.  To suggest otherwise is naive at best.

 

 

 

 

Tommy - if your remaining mafia are Hoof and Via then why would Via be on every Mafia train? 

 

 

[deleted]

 

@ Turin - I thought you didn't like it when people put themselves down as town in their read lists and stuff - or is it different because you are doing it?

 

@ Krak - you have misquoted Turin in your post at 464 - what makes it worse is that you have included Turin's post in yours. I don't know whether you have just misread, or have tried to twist Turin's words here, but tried to do it subtly by just swapping two words round

 

@ Golden - I have more than 1 post. yes I am still only in single digits I know, because I replaced in. But by saying that I have only posted once means to me you have not actually read the thread, you are putting all these opinions out there but you are actually skimming

 

I also find this (bolded) interesting.  Via, what did you interpret this to mean?  As in why did Krak do it?

 

 

Via - I still want an answer to this.  Why did you focus on the word switch instead of the bigger statement of Turin thinking me not Town?

 

 

 

I quoted the actual thing I was takling about at the top.

I didn't see anything that Turin said here to make me think he doubted you were town BFG.

 

The word switch jumped out at me because when I read Krak's post, what he saw in Turin's post was completly opposite to what I saw. So I went back and read the two side by side, which was when I noticed the word switch.

 

This seemed manuplulative to me, and a sign of mafia, but the fact that Krak quoted Turin made it not quite so clear cut. I was thinking 'If Krak was mafia and trying to manipulate and twist what Turin was saying, then quoting it only a couple of lines above his attempt at manipulation does not makes sense as that would not be very effective.'

 

Krak then later said it was a misread / mistake, which would make any conclusions built on it flawed. Including Kraks suggestion that he did not think you (BFG) were town.

 

 

 

 

And as much as I would love to be able to say I have been on every mafia train, we have only had one that we are sure was mafia.

BFG Spam Master

BFG

Posted
Posted

@Tommy - I love farfetched theories.  Once everyone's posted I'll share mine if you want :) 

 

@Via

 

 

A) Feels need to include himself in reads, like we believe that he's town based on his own insistence.  I love that last part, "but I only know that at present."  That suggests two things: 1) He isn't sure he's town, and 2) He doesn't believe BFG is town.

 

I don't mean that you thought Turin thought I wasn't Town, but when you were commenting on Kraks post why did you comment on the bolded blue instead of the bolded (or both)? 

Elaevia Master

Elaevia

Posted
Posted

because he was basing the bolded on the blue.

 

His conclusion ( the bolded) was based on obviously incorrect / manipulated information (the blue). If had held to his opinion about the blue, then I would have looked at  the bolded more closely, because  - in my opionon - he would have been basing whatever he was saying on a faultly foundation.

 

I remember Krak saying he had misread, I can't remember that he bought up the rest of the point he made again. His reactions to me pointing it out seemed quite genuine so I didn't look at the 'BFG isn't town thing' again.

Tommyrod Grand Master

Tommyrod

Posted
Posted

Theories are fine but I am a proponent of keeping things simple. Find scum, kill scum. For example: if I let my mind wander I could see Cloud being mafia because of his late vote on Golden and weird phrasing, especially later in the game; talking as if he "knows too much." But when I look back at his play I see a fairly consistent and transparent thought process, particularly compared to other players like Hoof. I also doubt he could fool me for this long (even with the power of Clarthe) considering I have a reasonable amount of experience with his play and my later meta read on Krak proved correct in the end. Keep it simple. Lynch the scummiest players. Win the game.

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