[Basic] Christmas Mentors & Maffia

[Leelou]

You changed your post. 

 

I keep forgetting editing is allowed >.<

[Leelou]

I'll address your other post to me in a few mins, Nol, but Day 1 it was okay to go after low hanging fruit? 

[Leelou]

 

 

06 - Leelou

Leelou I still don't trust much. You guys can spin it as "scum paranoia" if you want to but I have been lynched on Wednesdays as a joke, both as town and scum, enough to justifiably be paranoid. Blackhoof and Darthe too have both been subject to Day 1 lynches that were driven more by lulz than anything else. They know, Verbal too. And so does Leelou which brings me back to what I feel is a healthy distrust of her this game. I admit I haven't played close attention to her interactions with other people thus far so I can't give much input there but I do notice that if Peace was scum burying his vote early Leelou is the one I'd pick for burying her vote late. She didn't give what I deemed to be a good reason for jumping on Goldeneyes train, just said he was "illogical" basically. Would like to see her explain that vote further.

 

You are being super paranoid. I haven't attacked you at all.

 

See, these two sentences don't mesh.

I am not saying you attacked me aggressively but you voted me right?

Even just taking it at face value and assuming it was done with the best intentions from a townie to feel things out...it's still an attack. A vote is like a slap in the face that we use to try to shock the truth out of people. So if you did in fact attack me...how am I being paranoid? The way you followed from me to Blackhoof was suspicious to me as we're both people prone to day 1 joke lynches. It has happened. Do I need to link to other games and show you what you already know? I'll even give you a step and say maybe it is paranoid but it is absolutely justifiable in my case.

 

 

I never went after Hoof, where the hell are you getting that from? I made one offhand joke with Cloud when he told Elf there were no easy lynches and then I made an observation as to how he was going along with the general consensus. My one vote was not a slap in your face. You are blowing this way out of proportion and twisting things into me being a monster and going after easy lynches all game.  

 

 

You know what, why don't you point out where I am attacking you? I had a discussion as to how I wasn't pushing a lynch on you. I explained why I voted you the second time, responded to BFG about what I was thinking of your play, but not once did I attack you or try to drive a lynch on you.

Well my opinion on what constitutes a "push" obviously differs from BFG's as we've been over this before concerning Cloud.

I say you don't vote someone unless you intend to lynch them.

 

 

I say you vote who you find scummy, get information and move on in the game with the information you've gained. Before you start in on me again, the first time I voted you was a joke. Your overreaction to one vote is telling.  

 

 

I said how I was feeling about Goldy twice. He has a very different style from town to scum from what I could see in the few games I've seen him play. He was on his scum meta.  

 

1:

 

 

 

I'm mostly getting town vibes from Cloud, Tommy and Krak. 

 

Turin, I'm not sure if he's really just being a stickler for the personal attack thing or seriously thinks Tommy is scum. He's one I want to watch because if it's the first thing then that is not helpful to town at all. I also don't really feel like he's defending himself well. 

 

Peace is hard for me to read since he is always very stubborn. He's in my null to scum pile right now. 

 

Goldy is coming off more scummy than townie this game. Townie Goldy is more precise. I'd feel comfortable voting him today. 

 

Hoof is an easy day 1 lynch because the scummiest things flow out of his mouth regardless of alignment. He's one to watch for now. Not sure if I like the votes on him. 

 

Elf seems stubborn, not sure about her since I don't believe I've played with her before. 

 

Nolder - he'll show his ass after a couple days if he's scum. 

 

Hallia has a bad habit of not posting game content. She does this more so as scum and I don't like that the only thing she's commented on so far is a post by Goldy. I could vote for her. 

 

Now I'm just waiting for Theo and Via to catch up and post before I can get a feel for them.

 

I really wish BFG would post some more. 

 

##unvote, ##vote Hallia

 

 

2. 

 

 

 

 

@Nol - Wombat really isn't posting much in my mentor thread. I only voted you this time because I didn't want us to miss a lynch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to get back on before deadline. If you notice I was seriously voting Hallia up until a couple hours ago. She skates through more as mafia than as town. She has been posting a bit more so I feel slightly more comfortable with her around, but I don't like how she was quoting Yates last night. 

 

I'm uncomfortable with Goldy's posts in general. The first game I played with him as town he seemed to take a more logical approach to the game, the last game I saw him in he replaced in for me and was scum and that is more how his style feels right now. 

 

##unvote, ##vote Goldy

 

Well first of all, you think two games is enough to establish a meta?

And secondly your reasons are very vague which is why I asked you to explain.

"Town Goldy is more precise." What does that mean exactly? With his words? With his actions? And how does being precise or not indicate scum or town? Again unless you're claiming to have is meta down in only two games this seems very random and irrelevant. Your second reason, about logic, makes more sense but I wish you would have backed that up. Like what did he do or say that was illogical?

 

Yes, actually I do. As town he was more focused on actually scum hunting and being very precise about it everyone actually thought he was being coached. When he replaced in for me in your game, he was completely different and he replaced into a scum role. That was the play I saw coming through. His emotional vote on Via is what sealed it.

 

 

 

 

 

I have an idea, why don't you follow me onto Theo and we'll try to take out the lowest postcount player besides the replacement?

That'd make me feel a whole lot better about you I think.

 

##Vote Theo

This is a blech vote. Starting a new train, on an inactive less than two hours before deadline? How would that make you feel better about leelou, nol?

 

At the time I had a theory about Leelou attacking me because she was on a mafia team with inactives.

If she followed me onto one it would have blown my theory up but she didn't and so I'm still very wary of her.

 

 

Theo said she wasn't around because she was sick, which I responded to you. I didn't feel comfortable voting for someone who said she was sick and in bed. The fact you are still pushing that even after you saw Theo's post in your catch up is ridiculous. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@Nol - Wombat really isn't posting much in my mentor thread. I only voted you this time because I didn't want us to miss a lynch and I wasn't sure if I'd be able to get back on before deadline. If you notice I was seriously voting Hallia up until a couple hours ago. She skates through more as mafia than as town. She has been posting a bit more so I feel slightly more comfortable with her around, but I don't like how she was quoting Yates last night. 

 

I'm uncomfortable with Goldy's posts in general. The first game I played with him as town he seemed to take a more logical approach to the game, the last game I saw him in he replaced in for me and was scum and that is more how his style feels right now. 

 

##unvote, ##vote Goldy

I don't know. It's hard to tell with you right now.

To me it all looks like a setup and if you're scum you could just lie about Wombat's activity.

Or even if you aren't the plan could just be your own anyway.

 

I have an idea, why don't you follow me onto Theo and we'll try to take out the lowest postcount player besides the replacement?

That'd make me feel a whole lot better about you I think.

 

##Vote Theo

 

 

Theo was sick, I was waiting to see if she popped back into the game or not.

 

 

Yes she was sick and I didn't know that at the time, now I do and I let the inactivity go.

I actually missed your post at the time telling me she was sick. All I say was that "Nolder Party of 1" post and the whole hipster thing. If I'd seen she was sick then I'm not sure who I would have voted or what I would have done. But regardless my point at the time was that you followed me onto Hallia because of activity but you wouldn't follow me onto Theo. Granted Theo was sick and perhaps deserved slightly more sympathy but from a game perspective absent is absent right? Hallia was on call for work and had just as much choice as Theo about being around, it's not like she went out to party or something. So what was the difference? That is why I am still suspicious of you. Unless you know something I don't Hallia and Theo should have been treated the same way but you didn't.

 

Look, it's not my fault you didn't read the thread and see Theo was sick. That was the difference and I even said that to you in the post you missed above. Again, not my fault you didn't read the thread. Also, don't flatter yourself. I didn't follow you onto Hallia, I was typing up my post and didn't see that you posted until after I did. It's been addressed this game already. I voted her for reasons I have stated, it was odd after all the time she said she was catching up she only commented on one post of Goldy's and she does lurk differently as scum than town. Look at Darthe's 3 thread game and compare it to any of her town lurking. 

 

9.  Wrong read above about you. Leelou has done some things herself to give me a mafia feel. the hanging on tothe Nolder vote well past the time it was warranted. hell even she said she wasn't trying to get him lynched. since then she has also just follwed Nolder onto a low poster in the attempt to get post out of them. This is actually the same type of activity that I decried in my opinion on Nolder. that her vote isn't really a vote to lynch but to achieve some other goal. possibly as simple as parking her vote. (which is what she accused me of BTW even tho I have been fairly adamant in my conviction that Tommy is possible mafia and bears closer watching)

 

Turin, you really haven't played mafia with me. At all. Give actual post examples of what you find scummy from me. I leave a joke vote until I find something scummy. Hallia not posting is scummy. She hides as scum, which I posted. I posted a couple mins after nolder since I was typing up my post and didn't actually see his vote until after I posted.

 

 

[Nolder]

Hallia didn't hammer Goldy, Elf did.

Didn't she?

I thought she was the one who posted that intent to hammer thing?

 

You changed your post. 

 

I keep forgetting editing is allowed >.<

I know, I realized I didn't finish my sentence lol.

I usually catch that kind of thing before posting.

The sentence in question for anyone not around.

 

Setup talk can be distracting, especially when flavor is involved, but that doesn't mean it needs to be avoided entirely.

Bolded was what was added.

 

I'll address your other post to me in a few mins, Nol, but Day 1 it was okay to go after low hanging fruit?

I believe I could justify it for myself at the time.

But let me ask you a couple rhetorical questions in return, would you care if I did?

And do you think Peace can similarly justify himself in this case?

[Nolder]

I'll address your other post tomorrow. It's past bedtime for me.

[Leelou]

 

Hallia didn't hammer Goldy, Elf did.

Didn't she?

I thought she was the one who posted that intent to hammer thing?

 

You changed your post. 

 

I keep forgetting editing is allowed >.<

I know, I realized I didn't finish my sentence lol.

I usually catch that kind of thing before posting.

The sentence in question for anyone not around.

 

Setup talk can be distracting, especially when flavor is involved, but that doesn't mean it needs to be avoided entirely.

Bolded was what was added.

 

I'll address your other post to me in a few mins, Nol, but Day 1 it was okay to go after low hanging fruit?

I believe I could justify it for myself at the time.

But let me ask you a couple rhetorical questions in return, would you care if I did?

And do you think Peace can similarly justify himself in this case?

 

1. Saying intent to hammer is different than hammering in my book. Krak also said intent to hammer, but Elf is the one who actually hammered. 

2. TY

3. All depends on the situation. Also, I'd like to see what Peace says before I comment on how he justifies himself or not. Personally, I'm still seeing scummy streaks from Hallia. Her last post still came from a QT and she hasn't made any new game comments. When she comes under a lot of pressure she normally can get out reads which she was starting to do, but her actions afterwards has made me have a slight scum lean on her again. 

[peacesells]

Nolder, you keep accusing me of not giving reason's.   I gave a clear reason for voting Golden.   I even quoted for you a page back.  You continue to fabricate to make your stories seem more true.

 

Hally never voted Golden. 

 

I've played in many games with Hally...probably many more than you.  And your representation of her is incorrect.  She does not post a lot...but when she does it means something usually.  This game...nothing.  There hasn't been 1 game related post.

 

Set up talk is distracting and IS a common mafia/scum tactic.  Scum hunt and all will work out.  If we lynch 4 total scum and the game isn't over...then worry about a survivor.  You want to survivor hunt?  That is a scum ploy...not town ploy.

 

And as far as you calling me aloof???  I've been laid up in bed with the flu since last Thursday.  I've made that clear.  Funny you wish to use that logic on me considering your aloofness and lack of participation the first 30 pages of the game. 

 

I will vote either Nolder or Hallia today.  Which ever train is more likely to develop.

[peacesells]

Leelou...why are you dealing with this clown?  All he is doing is regurgitating his attacks on you.  His fake scum hunting is obvious.

[Leelou]

Leelou...why are you dealing with this clown?  All he is doing is regurgitating his attacks on you.  His fake scum hunting is obvious.

 

I know, I should stop but it's irritating he's twisting what I've done in the game. 

[peacesells]

 

 

##vote elffern

 

Because you've posted ad nauseum about why your opinion is bestest and right. I find you overly defensive, frenetic, I disagree with a substantial portion of your logic and you engage in endless whyme fryme. Even if the scum vibe I get from you is wrong, I don't find most of what you say to contribute to actual scumhunting, other than to FOS several people and then submit an OMGUS vote which you lyingly claim is based on gameplay. 

 

Ad nausem bit.  - This is a stretch.  Elfie may be tunneling me..but she sure isn't acting like her opinion is the best.  Many play that way here..but she isn't exhibiting these traits.

 

Logic bit - Doesn't bother explaining why her logic is wrong.  Just says it is.  Prove it.

 

Even if scum vibe is wrong -  Basically giving himself an out if he is somehow wrong and then giving a policy type reason for his vote - unhelpful town is worth killing type meaning.

 

Lyingly -  Is that a word.  Again, no evidence that she is lying.  She may feel exactly the way she is posting.  She may be wrong...but that doesn't mean she is lying. 

 

 

My biggest issue with Golden is that I played 1 game with him and he was very astute and succinct in that game.  Had great reasoning.  Great instincts.  Very good arguments.  He was town.   This post compared to that is a big pile of brown fiber.  His reasons lack substance. 

 

 

posting for the 3rd time for nolders benefit.

[Hallia]

Peace said I never voted Golden.  See below

 

VoteCount Day01#12

01 - Peace: -> Elf -> Golden
02 - Cloud: -> Elf -> Turin -> Hoof -> Turin
03 - Krak: -> Cloud -> Hoof
04 - GoldenEyes: -> Elf -> Via
05 - TommyRod: -> Peace -> Turin -> Hoof -> NULL -> Nolder
06 - Leelou: -> Nolder -> Hally
07 - Theodora: -> Golden
08 - Elffern: -> Peace -> NULL
09 - Hally: -> Golden
10 - BFG: -> Golden -> NULL -> Nolder
11 - Via: -> Golden
12 - Nolder: -> Hally
13 - BlackHoof: -> Peace
14 - Turin: -> Tommy -> NULL

Peace - 1 - Hoof
Golden - 4 - Peace, Thea, Via, Hally
Hoof - 1 - Krak
Hally - 2 - Nolder, Leelou
Turin - 1 - Cloud
Nolder - 2 - BFG, Tommy
Via - 1 - Golden

Not voting: Elf, Turin
8 to lynch.
Deadline: 2013-12-29, 20:00 GMT
Countdown: http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20131229T21&p0=50&msg=ChristmasMM-D1

 

 

Ok..finally out of the sick bed and back at work.  I'll be able to post more now. 

 

A few things on recent stuffage.

 

Nolder introduces set up talk.  Not only that he goes into a long explanation on various possibilities and only names me as a possible "3rd party."  2 things wrong with this.  Setup talk is a distraction.  Classic DM scum move that was perfected in the "GOT" game.   2nd, naming only 1 person as possibility makes it look like he was trying very hard to come up with a way to make someone (me) who others have expressed a town feel for look bad.  

 

On Hally, even her most recent post above mine addresses nothing game related.  She's posted, but not really taken a stand on anything.  More like cheered from the sidelines. 

 

Nolder and Hally are my 2 biggest suspects atm.  I'm good with either of them dead.

 

##UNVOTE

 

##VOTE HALLY

 

Peace says I never posted anything game related, which also isn't true, so he's either lying on purpose or skimming, both of which I find scummy.

[csarmi]

There is a deadline now in effect.

Countdown: End of Day 2

[csarmi]

VoteCount Day02#04

 

 

01 - Peace: -> Nolder -> Hally

02 - Cloud: -> Krak

03 - Krak: ->

04 - GoldenEyes

05 - TommyRod: -> Hally

06 - Leelou: -> Via

07 - Theodora Key: -> Krak

08 - Elffern: ->

09 - Hally: ->

10 - BFG: ->

11 - Via: ->

12 - Nolder: -> Peace

13 - BlackHoof: -> Nolder -> Hally

14 - Turin

 

 

 

Krak - 2 - Cloud, Key

Via - 1 - Leelou

Hally - 3 - Tommy, Hoof, Peace

Peace - 1 - Nolder

 

Not voting: The rest of ya lazy folks.

7 to lynch.

Deadline: 2014-01-04, 20:00 GMT

Countdown: End of Day 2

[csarmi]

[a little over 50 hours to deadline, enjoy]

[csarmi]

Elfie has been nudged. You might be next.

[Elaevia]

i don't think at this point discussion of possible roles really gets us anywhere: we have too little information.

 

I think peace was talking about the hammer vote hallia

[Elaevia]

I've read peace's post back, and actually I am not that clear what he is talking about so ignore that for now, sorry.

 

I did feel that hally was being scummy but changed my mind a bit during the night (her change from 'vindicated' to 'relieved' feels honest to me) now I can't tell again

 

@hally any coment on the weird highlighting in your post?

[Krakalakachkn]

Starting here:

 

What're your reasons for wanting Krak lynched Cloud?

 

 

 

What're your reasons for wanting Krak lynched Cloud?

 

It's about him coming in the game, posting a lot of fluff and then voting me straight out of the gate without giving much of a reason but ends up calling me obvious mafia or something similair. Later on he provides a couple of arguments for why he thinks I'm mafia, but he doesn't come back at me when I retort those and instead stops commenting on anything that was happening in the game except calling me out for buddying. During this time he keps his vote on me, and when I did a quick case on Hoof and voted for him he switched his vote from me onto Hoof. This stood out to me because he hadn't posted anything inbetween this that might have explained why he changed his mind. When I asked him what his reasoning was he replied that it was for reactions. I then asked him what the result of his observation was but he has yet to reply to my post. It sounded like an easy excuse though.

 

 

 

You make a good point, and since we've been talking, I'm feeling a lot better about Nol.  I'm down for giving it a shot.

 

##unvote

 

##unvote Krak

 

 

Yeah I'm also starting to feel better about Nolder.

 

 

##Vote Krak

 

 

##vote Krak even  

 

 

 

What the hell is this?  This is just completely lazy and an obvious lack of desire for any attempt at play, which makes me extremely suspicious of Hallia and makes me wonder why Cloud didn't say anything about it.

 

 

 

 

 

Cloud's reasons why I'm scum:

 

"It's about him coming in the game, posting a lot of fluff and then voting me straight out of the gate without giving much of a reason but ends up calling me obvious mafia or something similair. Later on he provides a couple of arguments for why he thinks I'm mafia, but he doesn't come back at me when I retort those and instead stops commenting on anything that was happening in the game except calling me out for buddying. During this time he keps his vote on me, and when I did a quick case on Hoof and voted for him he switched his vote from me onto Hoof. This stood out to me because he hadn't posted anything inbetween this that might have explained why he changed his mind. When I asked him what his reasoning was he replied that it was for reactions. I then asked him what the result of his observation was but he has yet to reply to my post. It sounded like an easy excuse though."

 

 

 

Allow me to rebuff.

Your case on elf was bad.  I mean pretty terrible.  You latched on to the first thing that caught your attention and only let it go when it was obvious that you had nothing.  Now you can say that Elf convinced you, but it looks as if you just got beat down.  It'd be pretty obviously scummy of you to tunnel for too long.  I also take issue with your wording.  You state that I "keep my vote" on you and make it sound like I had no reason to do so.  Well, I wasn't going to unvote just to unvote, that's not how I play.  Then you call your case a "quick case" which belittles it (not sure how that makes sense) and sets me up to fail for agreeing with what you posted.  Because how could I possibly agree with a "quick case" and how could a quick case be significant?  You then make it sound like there were 20 pages between you voting Hoof and me voting Hoof, but there weren't.  It was pretty quickly after.  Lastly, your use of the word 'excuse' instead of 'reason' or another such word belittles me (of which I don't care on a personal level) and again makes me look worse.  I don't need an excuse - I had a reason for doing what I did.  So, instead of coming at this from a neutral angle, which is usually town angle, you come at me with specific diction attempting to paint me badly.  

 

 

 

@Krak: Reactions!

...just kidding, mainly because of your terribad vote on me, following cloud.
 

Oh you meant Golden.

*facepalm*

Now I really feel like an idiot, lol.

Yeah now that I think about it he did the same thing as Krak.

Care to explain why you are following your scum reads, Tom?

And Lo and behold, who also did the same? Golden

Just caught up, and I know it's shitty that it was right before the deadline, sorry. Ended up getting pretty drunk last night. Today should see me more active.


Like Hallia, intention to hammer Golden.

Was also absent from both trains, and copied Hallia with the intention to hammer thing.

 

 

I don't understand your point about Golden.

 

 

[csarmi]

As I have posted at the start of the game, every single player has a QT available, some with their mentor, some with only me and AJ. There will be no discussion of formatting issues in my game. If you believe someone is breaking the rule by copying, quoting, discussing things they shouldn't be, you may take it up with me directly.

[Elaevia]

okey-dokey oh Modly one!

 

I was going to ask Hallia to clarify if it was herself she was quoting or someone else - but I think that if it is someone else they are doing a great Hallia impression cos it sounds like her!

[_CLOUD]

@Nolder - that seems an awful lot of assumptions to make.

 

Cloud, can you explain in more detail why you think Hallia's town? I don't follow your voting pattern reasoning. Also, you've cleared a few people as Town based on Golden train, how does that clear third party?

 

I didn't bother explaining my town read on Hallia in more detail because to be honest there isn't much to explain. I'm reading Hallia as town after looking at the tone and feel of her posts. Her vote switching and the reasoning behind it also seemed genuine to me at the time. I don't expect you to understand because I think you haven't played a lot of games with Hally yet to really get a feel for her play.

 

Also, I'm not hunting for the third party because I don't have to. A third party is going to play as townie as they can, and thus they won't be able to be found as easily as scum. Night 1 only had one kill and so I'm already starting to doubt the existence of a SK, and I'm not worried about a possible Survivor because I plan to have the mafia lynched before they have any chance to seize the game.

 

 

 

@Nolder - that seems an awful lot of assumptions to make.

Sure, but how many of them would you disagree with?

I think it's reasonable to assume there is no Vig or SK until seeing 2 kills for example.

Trying to figure out the setup is part of mafia. It may be a little early I guess but I was just dropping some initial ideas and thoughts.

 

 

Agreed.

 

 

They could both be scum.

 

>.>

 

 

14 players, 25% would be 3.5, so either 3 or 4 anti-town. My guess would be 3 mafia and 1 3rd party. 1 night kill suggests survivor might be more likely than SK, but it's possible that either a vig or SK withheld a shot to go hidden, I doubt mafia would, or of course any of them could have been blocked.  Personally I always treat claims with a pinch of salt.

 

Why do you think Turin was killed last night?

 

I don't see the use of a Vig or SK holstering just to hide their abilities, because sooner or later they are going to shoot someone anyway and when that happens they might as well have killed off a couple of players to get closer to their win con.

[Nolder]

I never went after Hoof, where the hell are you getting that from? I made one offhand joke with Cloud when he told Elf there were no easy lynches and then I made an observation as to how he was going along with the general consensus.

A joke leads to a vote leads to a train leads to a lynch.

Been there, done that. And don't tell me it doesn't happen that way because we've all seen it.

This is mafia and we are assuming that pretty much everyone is choosing their words with care most of the time right?

If that's true then most jokes aren't really jokes, in your case the joke can be seen as a nudge trying to kickstart a joke lynch. I'm sorry if that wasn't your intent but that is how I viewed it and without being in your head there is no other way for me to view it. You're basically just saying "trust me you took it wrong". Well ok maybe but this is a game about manipulation and deceit and I have no reason to trust you. What you're asking is unreasonable.

 

My one vote was not a slap in your face. You are blowing this way out of proportion and twisting things into me being a monster and going after easy lynches all game.

I didn't say it was all game. It happened at the beginning of the game.

And I'm not trying to twist anything this is how I perceived events.

I fully admit I could be wrong. 

 

I say you vote who you find scummy, get information and move on in the game with the information you've gained. Before you start in on me again, the first time I voted you was a joke. Your overreaction to one vote is telling.

Well maybe next time you shouldn't joke like that.

Dunno what else to tell you.

Also, overreaction? I've only talked about this I think twice or maybe three times on my own.

The rest has been responding to you because you're seemingly so upset that I can't tell your joke from an attack.

Instead of worrying about what one person thinks about something that happened at the beginning of the game you should concentrate more on casing people today for a lynch. 

 

Yes, actually I do. As town he was more focused on actually scum hunting and being very precise about it everyone actually thought he was being coached. When he replaced in for me in your game, he was completely different and he replaced into a scum role. That was the play I saw coming through. His emotional vote on Via is what sealed it.

I disagree that two games is enough.

But putting that aside I still don't understand what you mean by precise.

See the second part makes sense. "Different", voting with emotion rather than logic.

I'm just going to chalk that up to a poor choice of word but feel free to explain further if you want to.

[Nolder]

1. Saying intent to hammer is different than hammering in my book. Krak also said intent to hammer, but Elf is the one who actually hammered. 

2. TY

3. All depends on the situation. Also, I'd like to see what Peace says before I comment on how he justifies himself or not. Personally, I'm still seeing scummy streaks from Hallia. Her last post still came from a QT and she hasn't made any new game comments. When she comes under a lot of pressure she normally can get out reads which she was starting to do, but her actions afterwards has made me have a slight scum lean on her again. 

1. Yeah of course it is. I didn't realize she didn't drop the actual hammer. To me Elf, Via, and Hallia's avatars all kind of look the same. I guess I skimmed by and just assumed Hallia threw the hammer.

 

3. I'm not worried about copy/pasting. Yate's is probably just talking through her again or something. FYI people right click and paste as plain text or control+shift+v. No more ugly formatting carried over.

[_CLOUD]

Cloud's reasons why I'm scum:

 

 

"It's about him coming in the game, posting a lot of fluff and then voting me straight out of the gate without giving much of a reason but ends up calling me obvious mafia or something similair. Later on he provides a couple of arguments for why he thinks I'm mafia, but he doesn't come back at me when I retort those and instead stops commenting on anything that was happening in the game except calling me out for buddying. During this time he keps his vote on me, and when I did a quick case on Hoof and voted for him he switched his vote from me onto Hoof. This stood out to me because he hadn't posted anything inbetween this that might have explained why he changed his mind. When I asked him what his reasoning was he replied that it was for reactions. I then asked him what the result of his observation was but he has yet to reply to my post. It sounded like an easy excuse though."

 

 

 

 

Allow me to rebuff.

Your case on elf was bad.  I mean pretty terrible.  You latched on to the first thing that caught your attention and only let it go when it was obvious that you had nothing.  Now you can say that Elf convinced you, but it looks as if you just got beat down.  It'd be pretty obviously scummy of you to tunnel for too long.  I also take issue with your wording.  You state that I "keep my vote" on you and make it sound like I had no reason to do so.  Well, I wasn't going to unvote just to unvote, that's not how I play.  Then you call your case a "quick case" which belittles it (not sure how that makes sense) and sets me up to fail for agreeing with what you posted.  Because how could I possibly agree with a "quick case" and how could a quick case be significant?  You then make it sound like there were 20 pages between you voting Hoof and me voting Hoof, but there weren't.  It was pretty quickly after.  Lastly, your use of the word 'excuse' instead of 'reason' or another such word belittles me (of which I don't care on a personal level) and again makes me look worse.  I don't need an excuse - I had a reason for doing what I did.  So, instead of coming at this from a neutral angle, which is usually town angle, you come at me with specific diction attempting to paint me badly.

 

I now agree with you that my case on Effie was bad, but it certainly was useful because I pegged a townie after it. Me appearing to be wrong about Effie isn't reason enough to vote for me without explain why though. That's just lazy and not pro-town behavior, especially when you realize your own mistake later on and come up with two arguments for why you think I'm mafia which I then shortly after replied to. I have already said that Effie managed to beat down every argument that I had against her, and the way she did that is what convinced me of her towniness. 

 

I don't see any issue with my wording. You did keep your vote on me. That's a fact. I haven't said anything about you lacking a reason with doing so. In contrary I think you did have a reason for keeping your vote on me for so long without commenting on anything game related, a mafia reason to be exact.

 

You say that you don't like to unvote just to unvote, but what about responding to the defense of the person you think is mafia? And what about following that person onto someone else without priorly explaining what made you change your mind about that person? Or isn't that also how you play? :)

 

I'm not belittling my case on Hoof by calling it quick. It was quick because I only broke down and analyzed one post of his. I wasn't setting you up for a fail, and certainly not because you agreed with it. What made me suspicious of you is how you haven't given any reasoning for your actions back then. You might want to look up the word quick in the dictionary by the way, because quick doesn't have anything to do with insignificance.

 

I also haven't said anything about the number of pages or the time that has passed inbetween your vote on me, you calling me out for buddying, and then your switch to Hoof. I only said that you haven't posted anything game related between those events which is another fact.

 

And lastly I said that your reasoning for switching to Hoof sounded like an excuse to me, meaning that I explained how it looked from my point of view which couldn't have been an attempt to make you look worse because of it's subjective nature. You could better say that I didn't find your reasoning for your vote switching from me to Hoof to be valid. 

 

 

I gave my views of your action from a neutral, and even a personal angle to keep everyone focused on the facts behind your actions. You are however now the person who is trying to paint my play in a bad light by introducing an unnecessary amount of hyperbole.

[_CLOUD]

Also, I'm still waiting for the results of your observation. What did you expect to learn from getting called out by me and a couple of other players?