[Basic] Christmas Mentors & Maffia

[keyholder21]

part 1:

 

[i edited out Turin's post that this is responding to in order to save quote limits and length. You can use the little arrow from Krak's post in this to go back and find it though].

 

This post is crap.

 

 

A) Feels need to include himself in reads, like we believe that he's town based on his own insistence. I love that last part, "but I only know that at present." That suggests two things: 1) He isn't sure he's town, and 2) He doesn't believe BFG is town.

B) Weak read on Golden

C) Has Cloud as scum #2, and yet hates on Nolder for "calling cloud out for actively trying to get a lynch on D1" in the same post.

D) There is completely such a thing as "pressuring without the intent to lynch." I've done it so many times that myself alone makes you as incorrect as Nixon (or whoever) when he declared Marijuana a gateway drug. To suggest otherwise is naive at best.

I think it's a null tell when someone includes themselves in reads. It's more of a difference in playing, imo. I give you the “but only I know at present” sounding weird, however I have no idea where you get him questioning BFG being town.

 

In light of Golden & Turin's flips, the 'weak read' on Golden in this response is interesting. Turin gave reads on everyone, so why pull this one out?

 

Background/font change is weird. I agree about pressuring without intent to lynch though.

 

Looking at Golden's reads, starting with post 479 (http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/86578-basic-christmas-mentors-maffia/page-24?do=findComment&comment=3118497). Not quoting because that would hit the quote limit fast I think.

 

In experience, scum tend to name at least one of their scum buddies as town when creating a list of 'reads'. Going by this line of thought, one of Krak, Tommy, Leelou, or Hoof is scum. I especially find his reasoning for town views on krak and Hoof weird.

 

 

@ Turin - I thought you didn't like it when people put themselves down as town in their read lists and stuff - or is it different because you are doing it?

 

@ Krak - you have misquoted Turin in your post at 464 - what makes it worse is that you have included Turin's post in yours. I don't know whether you have just misread, or have tried to twist Turin's words here, but tried to do it subtly by just swapping two words round

 

@ Golden - I have more than 1 post. yes I am still only in single digits I know, because I replaced in. But by saying that I have only posted once means to me you have not actually read the thread, you are putting all these opinions out there but you are actually skimming

I like this post. Although I don't know why she's mentioning Krak swapping two words around when his statement about Turin thinking BFG might not be town is a whole lot bigger, imo.

 

I also like her responses to Golden.

 

I like Cloud's responses to Golden.

 

Via, it reads like you are fake scumhunting right now because you are only posting about details that don't really matter. What do you think about the game so far at large and the things that have been discussed?

Can't say I feel the same about Via, but I tend to give replacement players time to dig in.

 

I think Via defended herself well against Golden, and it seems to me he could easily be scum trying to rile people up.

 

##vote Goldeneyes

I think she did too. Not quite sure how I feel about her reasoning for voting Golden. Her position on the train makes me feel iffy about her being scum though. Puts Golden in the lead instead of tying the vote with nolder. --

 

 

Obviously I don't have the time right now to read some of the massive posts some people have made but rest assured when I get to them you'll hate me because I'll just be spamming the thread with catchup. Ketchup? Anyway...

 

I see Hallia hasn't voted anyone yet. Has she even posted since I voted?

I don't want to bury my vote over non participating because it's a null tell but I'm reluctant to vote people who are participating without better reads on them.

Eh whatever. Sorry but this is the best I can manage right now. Next week you'll probably be sick of how much I'm posting but for now you'll have to settle for this.

Then read the thread and get better reads. This looks wishy-washy.

 

 

Oh yeah I forgot that DM Mafia is dead on the weekends. Silly me.

I tend to work 2/3 days on the weekend, and the computer we use is constantly spied on by the boss, so I can't really use it safely to play. That leaves the annoying process of phoneplay, and everyone knows phoneplay isn't as good as intercourse.

 

 

Also, I voted Blackhoof because his post reeked and I wanted to see reactions, which mostly consisted of you, Tom, and Turin questioning me. So, a small modicum of success.

 

I find it weird that this is what Krak chooses to respond to.

 

But I hear you on the phoneplay. I'm using a shitty laptop to try and catch up. Once that's done, I'm going to have to switch back to my phone.

 

##vote nolder still got 3 pages of reread left so this is subject to change (probably to Turin if that's the case by the looks of it ... gah , no words for those posts) I'll expand more on folder later, but, basically posts so fluffy you could sell them at a carnival amongst other things. But in case I fall asleep or something le vote.

In light of Turin's flip, this post looks uberscummy. Also, avoidance of voting Golden. Makes me back to the fence on reading of her.

 

I like BFG's reading on Nolder.

 

I really don't like the Hally train FWIW. She's scummy by inactivity basically, but I dunno how voting her makes any more sense than voting an inactive. I have repeatedly been called out for wanted to lynch in actives early, just saying.

Hm. Another connection between Hallia and Golden.

 

Nope, don't like it. Would gladly move my vote to either Golden or Nolder, since the Peace train isn't going anywhere. I think Nolder.

##unvote

##vote nolder

Noting his saying Golden or nolder and choosing nolder.

 

None of that is remotely scummy though. Personally, I don't blame you for not being able to read it yourself, but you can't expect people to do it for you. You find the time, wait until you have the time, or post uninformed.

 

The deadline is like, today. Stop wasting time.

True.

 

It would be better for her to say it herself, but I guess it makes no functional difference.

It does make a difference. When she says things, it's stuff we can go back and discuss/refute. If Yates is saying it, we can't really do that.

 

 

There's a lot of votes on Nolder. If he flips town we should go after Hallie.

I don't like this post. Why would Hallia be scum if Nolder flips town? It sounds like you are trying to set up lynches.

 

 

 

 

Other mentors have gone as far as actually speaking in the game, past the checkin phase, so I figured it was ok. They're there to help right?

You are right, but other mentors haven't made any game related posts. You and Yates sound more like a Hydra right now and it's more difficult to read you if you keep quoting him. I agree with your assessment of Golden's post by the way.

 

 

 

Hallia's train is a bad idea because I'm starting to get town vibes from her during these last few pages. I could go for either Nolder or Golden right now, and I'm leaning more towards Nolder being mafia.

 

##vote Nolder

 

 

I really have to go now. I will be back in 5 hours or something.

 

Consider what you just said in the first part of this post and then the second.

Do you think it's possible it's Yates' gameplay that is giving you townie vibes and not Hallia?

 

That's very likely. I usually have a difficult time reading Hallia and this game wasn't any different so I had her as my only null read. I'm still unsure about both you and Golden. The thing that stood out to me the most regarding your play was that you only only had a town read on Krak, and when further questioned you claimed to have forgotten what gave you that initial impression. I know that you hate inactives, but your vote on Hallia just seemed lazy, especially because you weren't that active yourself either. The thing that stood out to me from Golden was his aggressive response to Via's vote on him. It sounded too extravagant. I haven't played enough with him to know if he always acts like that or not, but it certainly makes him a difficult player to read.

 

I would personally prefer a lynch on Krak, but it doesn't sound like that will happen today.

 

I like this post.

 

 

 

There's a lot of votes on Nolder. If he flips town we should go after Hallie.

I don't like this post. Why would Hallia be scum if Nolder flips town? It sounds like you are trying to set up lynches.

 

Nolder - 7 - BFG, Elf, Hally, Hoof, Cloud, Leelou, Golden

 

Because if he's town, then a few probable townies now have a scum read on Hallia: Leelou, Nolder, myself. The wagon on Nolder went a little too smoothly, IMO. BFG (confirmed town) started it, another probable townie (Elf) got on, and then some grays/scum leans piled on it. Hallie, Hoof... Golden being on the end of that wagon seals the deal in my mind that Nolder is town (assuming Golden is mafia, which his low activity, weird interaction with Via, and behavior just now leads me to believe). Interactions-based reads can change a lot based on new info.

 

I'm also uncomfortable with it because high scum suspects (Krak, Turin) aren't on the wagon.

 

I like this reasoning. Makes me think Tommy is town. Or very skilled mafia.

 

I have an idea, why don't you follow me onto Theo and we'll try to take out the lowest postcount player besides the replacement?

That'd make me feel a whole lot better about you I think.

 

##Vote Theo

This is a blech vote. Starting a new train, on an inactive less than two hours before deadline? How would that make you feel better about leelou, nol?

 

 

Nolder what do you think of Golden?

Someone I haven't really analyzed because he wasn't involved in the discussions I was in.

Given the way he's voting I'd say he's a loose canon townie atm but don't hold me to that impression later.

 

Makes me think town on nolder. Lazy town thus far, but town.

 

Golden's OMGUS vote and later unvote, while in my opinion overreacted, does give me a town vibe from him. I also found Via scummy for only nitpicking and not adressing the game at large or giving her reads on the rest of the players. Her defense against Golden's vote also wasn't good imo.

Golden's still on my list of scum, I'll give him a little bit to get in here before hammer.

Intention to hammer Golden

 

 

 

He's not responded at all, and it's growing close.

Just caught up, and I know it's shitty that it was right before the deadline, sorry. Ended up getting pretty drunk last night. Today should see me more active.

 

 

Like Hallia, intention to hammer Golden.

These look very bad considering the flip.

 

##unvote ##vote golden , figure he's not gunna turn up anytime soon (sorry Hallie)

Null to slight townie due to this.

 

Do you think in a game of 14 there will be 4 mafia and a third party?

 

Why are you so sure there are 4 mafia? with a third party player it would seem more like there would be 3 mafia.

 

Why are you so certain there is a third party?

These are good questions that should be answered.

 

Krak's case on nolder is meh. Considering Krak looks bad to me so far, makes me feel better about nolder.

 

Interesting.

 

This definitely casts Tommy and Cloud in a bad light, but I think that they were just mistaken. Like I said, town on town violence. In fact the mafia did us a favour by NK'ing turin- it removes that distracting fight, which Turin seemed to be losing anyway.

 

As my second scum suspect, however, I will vote nolder

 

##Vote nolder

Not sure how I feel about this post regarding alignment. I do agree that the mafia removed a distracting fight, which is interesting.

[Nolder]

This is what I'm working with as far as drinks go btw.

Zero mixers so it looks like I'll be taking shots of Captain with maybe some apple flavored chaser if I feel like it.

 

[keyholder21]

part 2. I hate the quote limits, btw.

 

Tom is town because he chose to vote for Golden instead of Nolder, and Golden said that if Nolder would flip town he would look at Tom. I believe he was trying to set up Tom’s lynch and this also one of the reasons that I believe Nolder is town. I also had a town read on Tom because of his play during Day 1 and I agreed with a lot of his reads.

 

Nolder is town because he was the counter-train on Golden and it went too fast for him to also be mafia. I also don’t see a mafia Nolder trying to start a Theo train one hour before the deadline because such a move would attract too much attention if he knew that Golden was the most likely one to have gotten lynched.

 

Turin is town because he also chose to vote for Golden instead of Nolder.

 

Hallia is town because of her vote switching from Golden to Nolder, to Krak, and then finally back again to Golden. I have also gotten town vibes from her during these last few pages.

 

Leelou is probably town because of her vote on Golden that made the scales flip in Nolder’s favor. I have to admit that I don’t know if Leelou is someone who would safe herself by bussing her teammate, or take the risk and try to safe him instead. I got a town read on her during Day 1 so that also makes me feel better about her.

 

Peace is town because he was the first to vote for Golden and he left his vote on him while being active the whole time.

 

Theo is probably town due to the same reason as Peace, but she disappeared so it could have also been a blunder. I don’t see her voting for a teammate straight out of the gate though.

 

Effie is town because of her play on Day 1, and while she wasn’t active before the deadline where all the vote switching happened she did end up hammering Nolder. Any hammer from someone who hasn’t been around until then would have seemed suspicious so I will just focus on her play instead of her vote placement.

 

I’m not sure about Blackhoof. I found him more scummy when I cased him, and since then his play has improved and he appeared suspicious of both Golden and Nolder. I can’t blame him for that because I felt the same during that stage of the game. I could go either way on him.

 

 

This leaves Krak and Via as my two mafia suspects.

 

I think Krak is mafia because of his play and because he wasn’t voting for anyone which is really bad.

 

I think Via is also mafia because of her interactions with Golden which seemed iffy to me, but she was the third person to vote for Golden which does make her look a little better.

Again, don't like the definitive statements, but I have a feeling we just aren't going to agree on that.

 

Golden's statement about looking at Tom if nolder flipped town also makes me feel better about the two of them.

 

Do not feel the same about Hallia. More fence for her, for me.

 

Agreed on peace, leelou, and thea/key.

 

I'm feeling townish on Elf too.

 

I'm not sure how I feel about Via. I don't see her interaction with Golden that forced the first go around. I might have to go back and look at it again.

 

Agreed with Krak and Hoof looking scummy.

 

I could definitely go for a Krak lynch, but Nolder is still bad imo.

This only makes Hoof and Krak look more scummy. Makes nolder look a bit better.

 

This is a good example of why linking people is bad if you don't know what you're doing.

Guess what Tommy, we are all playing this game and we are all going to give opinions about each other.

Just because I named Krak as my town lean at the time we're now linked as partners?

What happens when we're both town and I just happened to have a good read?

What happens if I'm scum and I only said that to implicate Krak?

What if I'm scum and I thought most people would think that so I did buddy my partner?

I agree with this.

 

Usually though, Town gains nothing by having a deadline, assuming it is an active and proactive town. I guess a deadline forces people to actually make a decision, if they are vacillating and not making any progress, but ideally a town should be able to come to a decision without a deadline.

Agreed.

[peacesells]

 

##vote elffern

 

Because you've posted ad nauseum about why your opinion is bestest and right. I find you overly defensive, frenetic, I disagree with a substantial portion of your logic and you engage in endless whyme fryme. Even if the scum vibe I get from you is wrong, I don't find most of what you say to contribute to actual scumhunting, other than to FOS several people and then submit an OMGUS vote which you lyingly claim is based on gameplay. 

 

Ad nausem bit.  - This is a stretch.  Elfie may be tunneling me..but she sure isn't acting like her opinion is the best.  Many play that way here..but she isn't exhibiting these traits.

 

Logic bit - Doesn't bother explaining why her logic is wrong.  Just says it is.  Prove it.

 

Even if scum vibe is wrong -  Basically giving himself an out if he is somehow wrong and then giving a policy type reason for his vote - unhelpful town is worth killing type meaning.

 

Lyingly -  Is that a word.  Again, no evidence that she is lying.  She may feel exactly the way she is posting.  She may be wrong...but that doesn't mean she is lying. 

 

 

My biggest issue with Golden is that I played 1 game with him and he was very astute and succinct in that game.  Had great reasoning.  Great instincts.  Very good arguments.  He was town.   This post compared to that is a big pile of brown fiber.  His reasons lack substance. 

 

[keyholder21]

That all being said, ##vote krak. I haven't really liked any of his play so far. If my posts were TL;DR, I can go back and grab what I don't like about his play.

[peacesells]

##vote nolder

 

His voting actions yesterday were scummy.  Looked made to hide any info incase he got lynched.  His reasoning did not suffice to me.

[keyholder21]

It feels SOOO good to be caught up. You all have no idea *laughs*.

 

 

Happy New Year everyone!! Please be safe, but have a ton of fun!

[Nolder]

Part 2:

 

Checking in for today.

Don't have much time but I notice Hallia hasn't been around much.

Want to hear more from her before our deadline. If not, I have no problem with sending her to the executioner.

 

##Vote Hallia

Lame. A lot has been said, there should be more to comment on. How did you notice Hallia hadn't been around much if you weren't paying attention enough to comment?

 

Skimming. I can basically see who's posting and who isn't by checking the post count and noting which avatars I am seeing.

 

Also, D1 inactive lynches are no bueno, imo. Doesn't tell you nearly as much as lynching someone who had been around and talking.

It's not about getting information so much as it is about covering your bases and playing cautious.

The fact that lynching an inactive wont tell you much is exactly why it needs to be done.

If there are only 1 or 2 inactives you can leave them for maybe a day or two and hope they pick up later but if you're dealing with half the game (which I've seen happen more than once) then you have no choice but to start hacking away at the dead weight otherwise endgame just becomes a toss up.

[Nolder]

##vote nolder

 

His voting actions yesterday were scummy.  Looked made to hide any info incase he got lynched.  His reasoning did not suffice to me.

Well hot damn. Speak of the devil and all that.

I must be the first person to call you out if you're going after me this quick.

And my reasoning may not have been all that great...but on the other hand at least I had some.

Unlike a certain someone who's been coasting worse than this inactive right here.

[Nolder]

 

Obviously I don't have the time right now to read some of the massive posts some people have made but rest assured when I get to them you'll hate me because I'll just be spamming the thread with catchup. Ketchup? Anyway...

 

I see Hallia hasn't voted anyone yet. Has she even posted since I voted?

I don't want to bury my vote over non participating because it's a null tell but I'm reluctant to vote people who are participating without better reads on them.

Eh whatever. Sorry but this is the best I can manage right now. Next week you'll probably be sick of how much I'm posting but for now you'll have to settle for this.

Then read the thread and get better reads. This looks wishy-washy.

 

Yep. Ninja'd you saying just that.

I was doing what I could with the time I had. /shrug

 

 

None of that is remotely scummy though. Personally, I don't blame you for not being able to read it yourself, but you can't expect people to do it for you. You find the time, wait until you have the time, or post uninformed.

 

The deadline is like, today. Stop wasting time.

True.

 

No. Screw that.

This is what really set me off the other day and is partly why I apologized to Hallia, I went off on her and it wasn't even entirely her fault. I came in the thread that day ready to participate as much as I could. I started with Hallia since she'd just posted and asked her to quote or link me what she felt were her most relevant posts. She refused and we had a spat and then Blackhoof comes along, and instead of being helpful and and grabbing the links for me he tells me to: find the time (not really an option as my time was severely limited and I wouldn't have known where to start looking), wait until I have the time (again not an option, he's basically telling me to lurk when I could be participating however minimally it may be), or post uninformed (uhhh what? How does that help ANYONE?).

 

Stop wasting time? Who's time did I waste? The most efficient use of my time was to ask those who had more time than me for help so I could participate effectively. Instead they both criticized and insulted me. I guess it's no wonder people would rather lurk than try to keep up when they're met with responses like that.

 

 

I have an idea, why don't you follow me onto Theo and we'll try to take out the lowest postcount player besides the replacement?

That'd make me feel a whole lot better about you I think.

 

##Vote Theo

This is a blech vote. Starting a new train, on an inactive less than two hours before deadline? How would that make you feel better about leelou, nol?

 

At the time I had a theory about Leelou attacking me because she was on a mafia team with inactives.

If she followed me onto one it would have blown my theory up but she didn't and so I'm still very wary of her.

[Tommyrod]

Hi Key. Looks like productive discussion. I have some annoying persistent fever so am bed-bound on NYE. May as well digest the new stuffs.

 

Intent to read thread

[keyholder21]

No. Screw that.

This is what really set me off the other day and is partly why I apologized to Hallia, I went off on her and it wasn't even entirely her fault. I came in the thread that day ready to participate as much as I could. I started with Hallia since she'd just posted and asked her to quote or link me what she felt were her most relevant posts. She refused and we had a spat and then Blackhoof comes along, and instead of being helpful and and grabbing the links for me he tells me to: find the time (not really an option as my time was severely limited and I wouldn't have known where to start looking), wait until I have the time (again not an option, he's basically telling me to lurk when I could be participating however minimally it may be), or post uninformed (uhhh what? How does that help ANYONE?).

 

Stop wasting time? Who's time did I waste? The most efficient use of my time was to ask those who had more time than me for help so I could participate effectively. Instead they both criticized and insulted me. I guess it's no wonder people would rather lurk than try to keep up when they're met with responses like that.

Fair point on him saying to lurk instead of post. I should have edited his post better to show what exactly I agreed with. I agree with saying to read it yourself, that you can't have others read it for you, and to stop wasting time by posting without having really read the thread. I absolutely do not agree that one should lurk or post uninformed (obviously). Otherwise I would have just started in on current events instead of catching up.

 

That may have felt efficient to you, but since when is taking anyone's word but your own a good idea in mafia?

 

I don't think what they said was that harsh, but it wasn't me they were saying it to, so I can see where you are coming from.

[Nolder]

Well I was asking for links or post #'s or page #'s or something, not just quotes.

 

Anyway whatever it's really not important anymore.

You and anyone else can think I was being lazy if you want to.

[keyholder21]

Tommy, I hope you feel better. Sorry you're sick on New Years :(.

[Tommyrod]

Thanks. This game is dense. I'm glad Turin is dead because his posts were so insanely long and convoluted. Don't get why he was killed though. I've barely gotten anywhere in an hour, though admittedly I'm ADD and jumping around between this and the 3 other games I'm in. 2 hours until new years where I am... popping pills... you have any plans? You have any questions for me in the meantime? Anything about the game to chat about? Thank god this game is dead or I'd never catch up.

[Krakalakachkn]

@Key - It kinda was a case on Nolder, but it was more of a read on the events surrounding Nolder. That's why I specifically called it an ISO rather than a case.

[Tommyrod]

Let's discuss Halli's EOD1 play. 

 

I think you guys remember the prior discussion I had on Hallia:

Opening post #27 pinged me on second read considering how little has been said by Hallia. It's both off-topic and me-too-ing the friendly chat that Theo and Hoof had already. Notably, Hally joins in on Hoof's spam-fest in #53. Damn, Hally hasn't said poop so far. She comes back in #223 with more Christmasy stuff. 3 posts in 3 days? That's pretty inexcusable since she's showing that she's still aware of the game and hasn't forgotten about it. If Peace/Turin end up cocky/lazy masons and not mafia, I'd turn attention here, especially the Hally/Theo/Hoof trio as they've been chummy for no apparent reason.

 

---

 

Hallia’s return to the game in #386 pinged me because the sole thing she finds to comment on is Goldeneye’s one-off post from a while back? She says she agrees with Golden about Tommy and Turin being town and thinks Cloud is town. This post from Hallia is one of those I see a lot with mafia talking to mafia and trying to distance from each other by having different reads (like on Cloud). Bad post. Disappears for a while again and mentions an excuse for being gone… not a great re-entrance. Defends Turin with the most forced post I’ve seen in a while, #446. Calls out Peace’s “not a debate club” comment, that actually makes me feel better about Peace being town since I’m starting to lean scum on Hallia.

 

 

After Golden flipped mafia, I have to reconsider the timing of her vote on Golden in #496. She put a vote on Golden when he had 3 votes on him (Peace, Thea, Via), making Hallia the fourth in #496. This is good… except she jumped ship. If Via and Hallia are scum with Golden, this makes sense; it’s an early bus on their teammate to gain town cred before the lynch is pushed onto a townie (which often happens on D1). Let’s explore this idea. When Turin votes for Krak, Hallia agrees Krak is scummy. When Nolder asks Hallia for clarification, Hallia says don’t be lazy, says Nolder had 10 minutes to find her post, and then immediately votes for Nolder. That’s enough to make the jump from Golden (her only scumread up to this point) to Nolder? I don’t think she talked about Nolder much before that, if at all? Nor has she talked about Krak.

 

Oddly, Golden says in #535 that he doesn’t like the case on Hally, even though her vote was just on him. This is a pretty big ping and enforces the fakely antagonistic Golden-Hallia connection. If Golden was scum and Hallia was town, why would he be defending her when there’s a wagon developing on her? It's an ideal mislynch opportunity. The wagon at the time on Hallia was: Nolder, Leelou, Tommy. Yet Golden doesn't try to jump on. That's massive.

 

Hallia then has her mentor speak through her in an attempt to defend herself… the defense from her mentor to Leelou’s vote on Hallia and my commentary on her opening is bizarre. When she comes back in #576, her question to Nolder (the person her vote is on) isn’t really about the game, but is about a hypothetical scenario involving drawing the night kill? You don’t have a better question than that for your new highest scum suspect? They have a short back and forth and Hallia says she’s feeling better about Nolder. Alright. Back to Golden then? No..

 

Hallia then asks Cloud why he wants to lynch Krak. This is the second time she’s seen a likely townie (Turin, now Cloud) put suspicion on Krak without her discussing Krak herself. Cloud gives his reasoning, and Hallia immediately votes for Krak in #597. What happened to Golden? As if knowing she'd be called out on it, she self consciously acknowledges she hasn’t been putting her thoughts in the thread in #599.

 

At this point the wagons are:

 

Golden - 5 - Peace, Thea, Via, Turin, Tommy

Nolder - 5 - BFG, Elf, Hoof, Leelou, Golden

Krak - 2 - Cloud, Hally

 

Now she’s quiet, only commenting on how she isn’t on the Nolder wagon anymore after I explained why I was uncomfortable with it. In #655 she says Golden is still on her scum list – good. But why isn’t she voting for him? She has been talking about him for half the game. Now that a wagon is building on him, she’s waiting for him to respond? Okay, fine. She makes the “intention to hammer” post in #664. But if he’s been a big scum lean for her, why not just hammer it now? Is Golden really gonna change her mind entirely in 30 minutes? We know she’s still around as she keeps posting. Elf hammers him.

 

If I read these events in a vacuum, I see obvious scum. If was a day vig I'd just shoot her right now. I want more people to weigh in on this.

 

##Vote Hallia

[peacesells]

Like that post by tommy.

 

Don't forget she tried to take credit for the lunch as well.

[Tommyrod]

Another good.point. My next discussion will be Via but that will have to wait until tomorrow.

[Tommyrod]

 

Happy New Year to everyone, btw. Wherever you are.

[Nolder]

I didn't notice any of that at the time. 

I was just happy to have a vote taken off me and worried about how much time I had left to post.

[Blackhoof]

I was uncertain about Hallia, but I was looking back, and this popped up-

 

I really don't like the Hally train FWIW. She's scummy by inactivity basically, but I dunno how voting her makes any more sense than voting an inactive. I have repeatedly been called out for wanted to lynch in actives early, just saying. 

 

heh, this is interesting. Too obvious maybe? Nah, not with the way Golden was playing.

 

##unvote

 

##vote Hallia

[Elaevia]

Happy New Year everyone!

 

I hope everyone who is sick feels better soon.

 

Welcome Key, I see you've posted quite a lot of reads and stuff so far, that's good for the game and immeadiately makes me think 'town', but will have to have a proper read of the thread when my head is clearer and I'm not on a train.

 

Hallia taking credit for lunch? Great typo! :)

[_CLOUD]

Cloud's eagerness does not seems scummy to me. Although last time I thought he wasn't scum he was and usually when I think he is, he's not, so I need to think more about this.

 

I’m changing my meta and altogether trying my best to improve my play. I’m telling you this because my play from now on will most likely be different than before this game started.

 

Just because it's “ordinary” does not mean it should be acceptable.

 

I would agree with you if this were an ideal world. I however haven’t seen you, or anyone else for that matter who plays mafia, question every action of someone they have known and played with for a while. Everyone relies on meta reads and thus will come to ignore behavior that isn’t alignment indicative of the person in question.

 

Bold: Giving her permission to be town?

 

Should be noted, picks the vote on Turin back up.

 

Also noting that after Cloud becomes convinced and unvotes elf, Golden picks up and votes her. Possible connection there.

Yep. Do you want to be town too? :P

 

And as for Golden picking up the case on Effie after I dropped my vote on her, I have called him out for that myself too.

.

Do NOT like this post from Hoof. He doesn't like Golden's post, thinks there aren't very many valid points, but then votes peace for voting golden by saying he has crappy reasoning.

 

Nice catch.

 

 

^ both of these make Cloud look bad. First post, giving an 'out' for Golden's response to peace. Second post for two reasons, 1) asking peace to explain what he said when Cloud had argued earlier that it's in peace's meta not to do that, 2) it appeared obvious to me why golden's post was off/bad.

 

I'm getting a townie vibe from Elf. Her responses to all the flack she got in the beginning of the game look good.

 

As I'm getting more into the game, still seeing peace as town.

 

I wasn’t giving Golden an out with my response to Peace. My reply to Peace was about him feeling insulted by Golden, and me explaining that I have seen him act like that before and that he shouldn’t take it personal because after all this is just a game.

Peace himself said that he would come up with an explanation for his vote later on, and after he still hadn’t posted one I decided to remind him of it. Yes, it was also obvious to me what he found to be off about Golden’s post, but I still wanted to hear it from the man himself instead of substituting his reasoning with my own.

 

 

I really like the rest of your catch-up post by the way. It was an insightful read.

 

 

@Tommy: Your case on Hallia was really good and I would like to hear what she has to say in response to it. By the way you mentioned during the end of Day 1 that Hallia triggered a scum tell that was important you, but you said that you would clarify it later. What was it?

 

I was uncertain about Hallia, but I was looking back, and this popped up-

 

 

I really don't like the Hally train FWIW. She's scummy by inactivity basically, but I dunno how voting her makes any more sense than voting an inactive. I have repeatedly been called out for wanted to lynch in actives early, just saying.

heh, this is interesting. Too obvious maybe? Nah, not with the way Golden was playing.

 

##unvote

 

##vote Hallia

 

I don’t like this vote. What happened to your reasoning for thinking that Krak is scum?

[_CLOUD]

Mod, can we get a vote count please?