[Basic] Christmas Mentors & Maffia

Tommyrod · December 28, 2013

I would love to hear your thoughts on my case by the way. Your aggressive attitude isn't making you look any better in my eyes though

LMAO

O.o I don't see how you think Turin's attitude has been aggressive. He makes good points, and he's not being all sassy about it. Methinks you're trying to cast an evil light upon him

Are you serious? Haha. He's been both snarky and making bad points.

peacesells · December 28, 2013

Guys. The game isn't about debate. It's about manipulation. Many here refuse to debate yet are still effective.

Tommyrod · December 28, 2013

Guys. The game isn't about debate. It's about manipulation. Many here refuse to debate yet are still effective.

Like Turin?

peacesells · December 28, 2013

Guys. The game isn't about debate. It's about manipulation. Many here refuse to debate yet are still effective.

Like Turin?

Maybe. He's been more of a policeman this game than a scum hunter.

Tommyrod · December 28, 2013

Let's have another chat.

Sorry if I ask a question that's already been answered, I skimmed most of today's posts as I've been really busy in another, more hectic game.

Do you still feel uncomfortable about my phrasing?

Don't you think it's weird Turin is still chummy with you but is really antagonistic with me and Cloud? Why would you be more "clear" than either me or Cloud?

Your vote's been on Golden for a while, right? About half the game now, in terms of posts. I'm surprised you haven't moved onto something else considering he hasn't said much, if anything, since you attacked him... for voting Elf, right? Yet you've had your own suspicions of Elf? Is that not what you're accusing Theo of doing?

peacesells · December 28, 2013

I didn't say elf was clearly scum. And that stuff was early in the day. Golden going into hiding only makes me more suspicious.

On Turin. I don't think it is unusual for him to attack you as you have a very abrasive and cocky personality. I felt the urge to go full bore on you as well. Difference is I've gotten past it.

And I'm always suspicious of buddying. But I'm suspicious of many things day 1.

I think nolder was more blatant about it. Some could say I'm buddying you since I've repeatedly given town reads in you.

Sick in bed and using my phone. Sorry if this comes out disjointed.

Tommyrod · December 28, 2013

It's okay, if you're sick we'll just talk later. Feel better.

Tommyrod · December 28, 2013

I'll lynch you when you feel better :)

BFG · December 28, 2013

Apologies for absence, Christmas, family, stuff. Also I'm aware of how much pot kettle I'm about to do, but meh.

My chair is awesome Des. BFG, I will take your vote as further proof of your crush on me. I approve of the crush, but not the vote.

</3

##unvote Golden (for now anyways)

Having finally had chance to catch up my current impresions are

1. Peace - a couple of points that ping. I don't need the defence against Nolder, I also don't follow your reasoning on Tommy in #200. Seems to be following Cloud a little early Day 1, votes Elf and finds Nolder scummy, actually spends a lot of time prodding Nolder with his vote parked on Elf, has a major scum tell on Nolder in #184 yet doesn't vote him. Votes Golden over Nolder in #279. But I agree with his post about Golden.

2. Cloud (Darthe) - disagree with his primary reason for voting Elf, but he pushes it in a reasonable manner and some of Elfs initial reactions seem strange. Not a fan of the early Leelou is town pronouncement, and don't follow his reasoning given later (which came a lot later after being asked at least twice). I also disagree with almost everything in this post. 1. Elf said the post stood out, at the time it was pretty much the only game post in thread. 2. Switches vote to Turin (what happened to Nolder here - his initial suspicion seems to be entirely based on Nolder finding him scummy, his read evaporates as soon as Nolder backs off) for general disagree with logic reasons, but doesn't get into specific (@Cloud, what specifically don't you agree with?) It's interesting that he doesn't ask Hoof to explain his reasoning on Peace here. Asks Csarmi about a deadline, meh except that this is something he calls other people out for doing when he's Town.

This post here http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/86578-basic-christmas-mentors-maffia/?view=findpost&p=3117768 on Hoof

You have a scum read on me and yet you can’t get further with explaining why than saying that you don’t like my play at times. I can’t take your read on me serious if you don’t come up with solid reasoning or at least an argument that sounds halfway logical.

Compared to this (which appears to be his entire basis for his first vote on Turin)

I disagree with almost everything Turin said on page 10, and it looks like he is making a mountain out of a molehill.

So far I have town reads on Leelou, Peace and Tom.

Also, was voting Elf for not voting Tommy when she found him suspicious, but ignores Nolder completely when not voting his strongest read (although it is Cloud at the time). Peace also has a strong scum read on Nolder without voting him and goes unmentioned

3. Krak - I follow his posts, could use more (I know pot kettle...)

4. Golden - aggressiveness reads better after Day started. Don't follow his vote on Elf, seems similar to his actions as cult in Settlers, but I doubt he'd be so transparent, agree with his reaction to Peaces vote

5. Tommy - generally like his early game play, we have a very different opinion on the Night 0 banter and that seems to colour our reads on people accordingly, but can follow his thought process (mostly) It's odd that he calls several players out for early spam, yet ignores Clouds (especially given their later buddy vibe). Like his response when his reads were questioned by Via

6. Leelou - not convinced by the early town reads based off her early interaction with Tommy, but I like her observations later on.

7. Theo - wish she'd elaborate on her reads.

8. Elf - don't follow the initial train on her and don't follow Goldens vote either. But I don't remember hearing much from her unless she's being voted, would like to hear more

9. Hallia - waiting to see what she comes up with

11. Dan/Via - obv null on Dan, but I like Via's catch up post, null so far tho

12. Nolder - strongest read at the moment, minor - spends time picking at the rules in Day 1. Odd, he knew the game had started so why not sort this out on Night 0, med - buddies/defends Elf early on, esp odd after telling me not to with Peace. Major - seemingly has Cloud as a mafia read, but doesn't vote. In fact doesn't vote till voting Hallia for inactivity recently, no mention of what happened to his read on Cloud. I've only played one game with him, so would appreciate other peoples reads, but Town Nolder prods and pokes and votes, jumps trains and tries to figure it out, his play so far seems like coasting.

13. Hoof - null so far.

14. Turin - not sure about his early posts, but I agree with a lot of his reads in #392.

Apologies again for being absent, will hopefully be able to get on more now that Christmas is over. Will try to grab quotes to support the above tomorrow, but for now it's late, so see you tomorrow.

##vote Nolder

Krakalakachkn · December 28, 2013

Turin, what do you think of my case on you?

It is wrong. maybe go into it in a while.

Why do you think you can tell others what to do?

Why are you taking everything so serious? I admit that I did a Darthe impersonation a couple of times just for the fun of it, but all my moves so far have been completly game related and had no ill will in mind. I'm trying my best to gain as much info as I can to try and solve this puzzle. And I'm not Tom's "attack dog on a leash". We just happen to share the same scum read right now. Notice how I don't go after Peace while he was casing him because I have a town read on him.

What are you on about? I mentioned no ill will. ALL posting on thread is gameplay. it is there to be scrutinized. that is how this game works.

This jives not at all with your earlier gameplay.

Tommyrod · December 28, 2013

That post is so Tom-like!

Tommyrod · December 28, 2013

(Oh I was talking to BFG)

csarmi · December 28, 2013

VoteCount Day01#10

01 - Peace: -> Elf -> Golden

02 - Cloud: -> Elf -> Turin -> Hoof -> Turin

03 - Krak: -> Cloud -> Hoof

04 - GoldenEyes: -> Elf

05 - TommyRod: -> Peace -> Turin -> Hoof -> NULL

06 - Leelou: -> Nolder -> Hally

07 - Theodora: -> Golden

08 - Elffern: -> Peace -> NULL

09 - Hally

10 - BFG: -> Golden -> NULL -> Nolder

11 - Via

12 - Nolder: -> Hally

13 - BlackHoof: -> Peace

14 - Turin: -> Tommy -> NULL

Elf - 1 - Golden

Peace - 1 - Hoof

Golden - 2 - Peace, Thea

Hoof - 1 - Krak

Hally - 2 - Nolder, Leelou

Turin - 1 - Cloud

Nolder - 1 - BFG

Not voting: Tommy, Elf, Hally, Via, Turin

8 to lynch.

Deadline: 2013-12-29, 20:00 GMT

Countdown: http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20131229T21&p0=50&msg=ChristmasMM-D1

Krakalakachkn · December 28, 2013

Current thoughts on the List of Players:

01 - Peace: The refusal to directly state his reasons for voting elf was a bit weird but it was fairly obvious to me that he was saying that he agreed with Cloud's case against her. The snark fest with Tommy is fiesty peace. Slight town lean

02 - Cloud (mentored by Darthe): Severe buddying to Tommy. ("yes sir"? ) as well as chainsaw defense with regards to elf's case against Tommy. He has been quite eager to get thru D1 it appears. This is usually more evident in mafia members that have good roles they want to utilize. The "i'm excited for this game" line doesn't fly for me. When you made the comment "when are we going to lynch Turin or Hoof" there wasn't much hoofie discussion yet. I was wondering why you picked him to put in there with me. You were following Tommy onto me so that I get but why hoofie at that point? or was Darthe pulling your strings there like with the Leelou is town thing? Mafia #2

03 - Krak (mentored by Verb) not much here yet to me. seemed to be primarily peanut gallery type posts. Undecided.

04 - GoldenEyes (mentored by Despothera) his vote on elf came across as a bad Despo impersonation. Like he wanted to sound like Depso but didn't want to put in the effort to multi quote. Just looks like lazy play so far. undecided tho.

05 - TommyRod: Mafia #1. attempting to lead the town. advocated the "look at inactives" it works every time. Only the ~~Sith~~Mafia deal in absolutes. A few other things. Is Cloud more pro-town than you are? You are constantly defending each other and working together too much.

06 - Leelou (mentored by Wombat) Are you still voting Nolder? You accused me of parking my vote on Tommy but you put your vote on Nolder before he even checked in. maybe hypocrisy is the new black. And if I am tunneling and trying to get him voted out for whatever reason my vote isn't parked. Added to the Tommy defender team. The little shot Night 0 could easily be a distance ploy. If Tommy is mafia like I think then she could very well be also. mafia lean.

07 - Theodora (mentored by Key) Only thing I recall is her early call out of Hoof for claiming Hoof... Were you serious about that? I wasn't sure if it was sarcasm or not... Undecided

08 - Elffern (mentored by Dap) The interaction with Tommy early was interesting. I think she was trying to say that She found Tommy pushing for everyone to play his game off. The not voting until later in the day especially on D1 is classic Dap from about 9 months ago. That she has adopted it is reasonable I guess since she has been away for a while. town lean

09 - Hally (mentored by Yates) More posting please ( yates must be turning over in his grim reaper hut) Incomplete.

10 - BFG - Innocent Child -Back away form the alcohol and post more please. you are the only person we know is trying to help town win so all input and thoughts are valuable

11 - dansyc (mentored by Kaylee) ABSENT Waiting for replacement

12 - Nolder: didn't like his advice to BFG. Also didn't like that he called cloud out for actively trying to get a lynch on D1. There is no such thing as pressuring without the intent to lynch. it is like saying that you are voting someone to pressure them. If the votee doesn't think that you are serious then they will just ignore your vote. Also has been fairly reasonable which is usually a sign of mafia Nolder. slight edge to mafia lean.

13 - BlackHoof: was behaving with just the one silly Blackhoof post which caught Thea's attention. Leaning town still at present

14 - Turin (advised by Pray) Town. but only I know that at present.

Mafia: Tommy, Cloud, maybe nolder, maybe Leelou.

Town: BFG, Turin.

. 23 hour day at present. Good Night now

This post is crap.

A) Feels need to include himself in reads, like we believe that he's town based on his own insistence. I love that last part, "but I only know that at present." That suggests two things: 1) He isn't sure he's town, and 2) He doesn't believe BFG is town.

B) Weak read on Golden

C) Has Cloud as scum #2, and yet hates on Nolder for "calling cloud out for actively trying to get a lynch on D1" in the same post.

D) There is completely such a thing as "pressuring without the intent to lynch." I've done it so many times that myself alone makes you as incorrect as Nixon (or whoever) when he declared Marijuana a gateway drug. To suggest otherwise is naive at best.

Krakalakachkn · December 28, 2013

That post is so Tom-like!

Quit trying to ingratiate yourself.

Tommyrod · December 28, 2013

That post is so Tom-like!

Quit trying to ingratiate yourself.

You just jelly

Andrej · December 28, 2013

I promise to actually start utilizing my co-mod abilities soon :tongue:

Krakalakachkn · December 28, 2013

That post is so Tom-like!

Quit trying to ingratiate yourself.

You just jelly

No comment on my previous?

Tommyrod · December 28, 2013

That post is so Tom-like!

Quit trying to ingratiate yourself.

You just jelly

No comment on my previous?

I'm done talking tonight, just observing. You may leave a message.

Krakalakachkn · December 28, 2013

I really wish this forum wasn't PG-13.

Krakalakachkn · December 28, 2013

Or PG or whatever.

elffern · December 28, 2013

But being subtle is half the fun, makes you more creative. Still doing a read through, though I did enjoy reading page 23 just now, it made me laugh. And jelly don't work here no more.

Turin Turambar · December 28, 2013

Let's have another chat.

Sorry if I ask a question that's already been answered, I skimmed most of today's posts as I've been really busy in another, more hectic game.

Do you still feel uncomfortable about my phrasing?

Don't you think it's weird Turin is still chummy with you but is really antagonistic with me and Cloud? Why would you be more "clear" than either me or Cloud?

Your vote's been on Golden for a while, right? About half the game now, in terms of posts. I'm surprised you haven't moved onto something else considering he hasn't said much, if anything, since you attacked him... for voting Elf, right? Yet you've had your own suspicions of Elf? Is that not what you're accusing Theo of doing?

Show me being chummy with Peace please. All I was saying is that you were acting like the bully that got his nose bloodied and then declared that fighting was not good anymore and tattled to the teacher to continue on with Nolder's recess analogy. Peace was merely the other party involved. You should be happy Tommy. It is all about you. Why do you keep trying to make it about anyone else?

That last thing sounds funny. initiating simulation::::

Peace: I think you are scummy for your vote on elf Golden. I'm voting you for it.

Golden: .................silence...............

Peace: Oh well since you didn't respond I must be wrong. Let me look elsewhere. I guess I should unvote.

LMAO.

Turin Turambar · December 28, 2013

Turin, what do you think of my case on you?

It is wrong. maybe go into it in a while.

Why do you think you can tell others what to do?

Why are you taking everything so serious? I admit that I did a Darthe impersonation a couple of times just for the fun of it, but all my moves so far have been completly game related and had no ill will in mind. I'm trying my best to gain as much info as I can to try and solve this puzzle. And I'm not Tom's "attack dog on a leash". We just happen to share the same scum read right now. Notice how I don't go after Peace while he was casing him because I have a town read on him.

What are you on about? I mentioned no ill will. ALL posting on thread is gameplay. it is there to be scrutinized. that is how this game works.

This jives not at all with your earlier gameplay.

WRONG...

I clearly stated that I did not particularly like the name calling. I also said that it is both personal attacking and gameplay. These are two separate things. As gameplay it is still there to be scrutinized. Which is what I did in pointing out what I found hypocritical on Tommy's part and his reaction to Peace coming back at him.

Looking back and paraphrasing cause I don't do a lot of multi quoting or note talking

Tommy: peace because you start the game with the same OP you are not a very adept player...

Peace: something something and you seem to have a really big ego(inferrence I drew is to say that perhaps you are not really as good as you think you are.)

Tommy: well that got personal. why you so mean Peace?

Tommy started the slinging of mud, Peace came back at him. Tommy got all hurt and used that to say that Peace was getting personal when IMO Tommy started it. This resulted in Tommy responding to me after I initially called him on it. Well I ain't taking no sass from no one without giving some back so Tommy got some back from me too. Now I'm buddying peace in his eyes. I say bantha poodoo.

Oh by the way. Several people are interested to know your reasoning on the hoofie situation where you followed Tommy and Cloud. It looked very much like opportunistic mafia play. ( it was even the third vote I think. we all know how bad that is, lol)

Turin Turambar · December 28, 2013

Current thoughts on the List of Players:

01 - Peace: The refusal to directly state his reasons for voting elf was a bit weird but it was fairly obvious to me that he was saying that he agreed with Cloud's case against her. The snark fest with Tommy is fiesty peace. Slight town lean

02 - Cloud (mentored by Darthe): Severe buddying to Tommy. ("yes sir"? ) as well as chainsaw defense with regards to elf's case against Tommy. He has been quite eager to get thru D1 it appears. This is usually more evident in mafia members that have good roles they want to utilize. The "i'm excited for this game" line doesn't fly for me. When you made the comment "when are we going to lynch Turin or Hoof" there wasn't much hoofie discussion yet. I was wondering why you picked him to put in there with me. You were following Tommy onto me so that I get but why hoofie at that point? or was Darthe pulling your strings there like with the Leelou is town thing? Mafia #2

03 - Krak (mentored by Verb) not much here yet to me. seemed to be primarily peanut gallery type posts. Undecided.

04 - GoldenEyes (mentored by Despothera) his vote on elf came across as a bad Despo impersonation. Like he wanted to sound like Depso but didn't want to put in the effort to multi quote. Just looks like lazy play so far. undecided tho.

05 - TommyRod: Mafia #1. attempting to lead the town. advocated the "look at inactives" it works every time. Only the ~~Sith~~Mafia deal in absolutes. A few other things. Is Cloud more pro-town than you are? You are constantly defending each other and working together too much.

06 - Leelou (mentored by Wombat) Are you still voting Nolder? You accused me of parking my vote on Tommy but you put your vote on Nolder before he even checked in. maybe hypocrisy is the new black. And if I am tunneling and trying to get him voted out for whatever reason my vote isn't parked. Added to the Tommy defender team. The little shot Night 0 could easily be a distance ploy. If Tommy is mafia like I think then she could very well be also. mafia lean.

07 - Theodora (mentored by Key) Only thing I recall is her early call out of Hoof for claiming Hoof... Were you serious about that? I wasn't sure if it was sarcasm or not... Undecided

08 - Elffern (mentored by Dap) The interaction with Tommy early was interesting. I think she was trying to say that She found Tommy pushing for everyone to play his game off. The not voting until later in the day especially on D1 is classic Dap from about 9 months ago. That she has adopted it is reasonable I guess since she has been away for a while. town lean

09 - Hally (mentored by Yates) More posting please ( yates must be turning over in his grim reaper hut) Incomplete.

10 - BFG - Innocent Child -Back away form the alcohol and post more please. you are the only person we know is trying to help town win so all input and thoughts are valuable

11 - dansyc (mentored by Kaylee) ABSENT Waiting for replacement

12 - Nolder: didn't like his advice to BFG. Also didn't like that he called cloud out for actively trying to get a lynch on D1. There is no such thing as pressuring without the intent to lynch. it is like saying that you are voting someone to pressure them. If the votee doesn't think that you are serious then they will just ignore your vote. Also has been fairly reasonable which is usually a sign of mafia Nolder. slight edge to mafia lean.

13 - BlackHoof: was behaving with just the one silly Blackhoof post which caught Thea's attention. Leaning town still at present

14 - Turin (advised by Pray) Town. but only I know that at present.

Mafia: Tommy, Cloud, maybe nolder, maybe Leelou.

Town: BFG, Turin.

. 23 hour day at present. Good Night now

This post is crap.

A) Feels need to include himself in reads, like we believe that he's town based on his own insistence. I love that last part, "but I only know that at present." That suggests two things: 1) He isn't sure he's town, and 2) He doesn't believe BFG is town.

B) Weak read on Golden

C) Has Cloud as scum #2, and yet hates on Nolder for "calling cloud out for actively trying to get a lynch on D1" in the same post.

D) There is completely such a thing as "pressuring without the intent to lynch." I've done it so many times that myself alone makes you as incorrect as Nixon (or whoever) when he declared Marijuana a gateway drug. To suggest otherwise is naive at best.

A>1.) I am certain that I am town. I know this because it says so in my role PM. You don't have access to my role PM so you obviously don't know this=> I stated it. of course it still means nothing because I could well be lying. But it is a fact I am aware of and so included it in my thoughts list.

A>2.) BFG is mod confirmed as town.

That these are the only two names I have as town is because IMO it is too dang early to have enough of a read on anyone to say they are town. your methodology may differ. That is fine.

B.) Explain. this looks like filler on your part.

C.) Why is it so difficult to understand that Nolder can be wrong for saying what he said( basically that it was too early to push hard to actually lynch anyone) and Cloud can be eager to get through the day(asking for a deadline, cheerleading lynches without making further cases) The fact that Nolder uses a weak argument to try to make his case is a slight ping. As ou know mafia will make a bad case on a teammate so that it can be worked out and then they both look reasonable. Sort of like Cloud and Elf.

D.) Not really. Or if it worked the target was weak. Without the willingness or at least the appearance of the willingness to follow through with the lynch of the target, "pressuring for reactions" amounts to going through the motions. Posturing. You can think that you did it but that don't make it so.

But I am willing to hear what everyone thinks about that topic. I encourage everyone to state your opinion. Can you apply real pressure if you are not willing to lynch someone for whatever it is you seek to apply pressure for(or at least make the person think that you are willing to lynch them)?

[Basic] Christmas Mentors & Maffia

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