[Basic] Christmas Mentors & Maffia

[Tommyrod]

Didnt you accuse Turin of stating  I was town previously?  Is that not "town hunting?"

Did he explain WHY he said that? Best I could tell, you guys just buddied without any prior discussion or justification.

[Tommyrod]

The tl;dr is that I'm suspicious of players whose reads I can't reasonably guess before they suddenly come out. If there's no organic development of thought process in-thread, that's a good mafia suspect.

 

I'll respond more fully when I'm not at work, but nitpicking my phrasing is getting to be a tired and frankly lazy form of debate.

 

Happy hunting.

[peacesells]

The tl;dr is that I'm suspicious of players whose reads I can't reasonably guess before they suddenly come out. If there's no organic development of thought process in-thread, that's a good mafia suspect.

 

I'll respond more fully when I'm not at work, but nitpicking my phrasing is getting to be a tired and frankly lazy form of debate.

 

Happy hunting.

 

Is this your go to move? 

[Tommyrod]

Haven't had to deal with this Tier 1 sort of debating so far. It's... perplexing.

[peacesells]

this isn't debate club. 

[Tommyrod]

Oh. My bad then. I though mafia was about rhetoric and convincing people to see your point of view.

 

Anyway, if anyone thinks I'm scumbeans then make a case for it and we can hash it out. I would rather get it out of the way than let it keep festering.

[Blackhoof]

Peace isn't really doing anything to convince me otherwise of his scummyness..... mafia isn't about debating? What? What is it about then?

 

 

 

I don't actually find him especially scummy right now, and I want to see what he says. And I am aware there are other paths my line of reasoning could take, but it seems best to go down the worst possible case first.

 

In one of your first posts you mentioned that Tom's eagerness is the only thing that stood out to you, and now you call him out for trying to get a lynch going by using very thin reasoning and at the same time trying to set up an escape if his attempt would fail. I again disagree with your explanation regarding his actions so far, but it's certainly interesting that you are now trying to backpaddle away from your initial read on him by saying that you want to wait for him to talk more. You haven't stated your suspicion on anyone else and you even admit that it's best to go with the worst possible case first, but you still aren't willing to vote for him at this stage of the game.

 

##vote Elf

 

 

already discussed to death, but this vote pings me. right off the bat, little reasoning behind it..... sure it is a day 1 vote, but it was made in the first few hours of the day, with a semblance of having reasoning to it.

 

##vote elf

 

also discussed to death- unexplained vote, implied that he is using cloud's reasoning (which was bad anyway) and refused to explain it later on, despite prodding. 

 

 

 

Personal attacks after I put doubt on you isn't very Christmaslike :(

It's not very town like either

##Vote Peaceinthemiddleeast

I wouldn't be surprised if we've hit scum already

-Self conscious (evidenced by OP gimmick)
-Sheep voting with no discussion, expecting the wagon to take off
-Overly defensive and gets into personal attacks on Day 1 (lol)

Definitely the most suspicious play so far

Follow me to the promised land

 

I only agree with you about his touchy attitude in this game, but the rest is null. Do something useful and follow me on Elf instead.

 

 

tunnelling on elf some more

 

 

 

Nolder, why have you been up Cloud's ass in this game when he is arguably the most pro-town player in this game? Who are your top 3 scumreads right now?

You can make that argument if you want to. I'll laugh and call you dumb though.

 

As for scumreads.

I'm reluctant to narrow my focus to just three people right now, it's too early in the game for that.

Especially given that so many people have barely posted.

If I've noticed something off or wrong or whatever I've called people on it.

Nothing has been held back thus far so what you've seen is what you get.

 

I will say that out of everyone Krak has been the only one to give me a town vibe thus far.

 

 

all this discussion and you aren't willing to make any statements, other than Krak, who hasn't posted much? (not that I can talk, really)

 

 

He has been actively scumhunting, and pushing hard I'm several people to get reactions and the game going. He might be scum trying to gain townie cred and take the lead in the game, but I am leaning town at the moment.

 

Haven’t I been doing the exact same thing that makes you have a town read on Tom? You don’t even seem sure of your town read on him when you say that he could still be scum, but that you are just leaning town on him for the moment. You are allowing so much wiggle room in your reads in this game. It’s insanely scummy.

 

As for you, I haven't really liked your play at times, I will go through it again when I have time.

 

You have a scum read on me and yet you can’t get further with explaining why than saying that you don’t like my play at times. I can’t take your read on me serious if you don’t come up with solid reasoning or at least an argument that sounds halfway logical.

 

As for your flip on elf, it just didn't seem like she said anything different to convince you. Like after pages of back-and-forth, since a senseless and over-eager vote on your part, you just agree and team up against peace. I don't even know, it is just weird.

 

My flip on Effie didn’t come out of nowhere like you try to make it appear, and even here you allow yourself enough wiggle room to change your mind later by saying that it “seemed that way”. I was having a back and forth with Effie since the start of Day 1, and post #234 was the turning point for me because I then realized that she managed to beat down every argument I had against her. You call my early vote on her senseless and over-eager, but you don’t even care to point out what you found wrong about it. And I’m not teaming up against Peace. Me asking Effie to summarize her case on Peace so that I could understand it better doesn’t in any way mean that I agree with her. I still have a town read on him.

 

Because I don't think they both are? Out of my current reads, cloud and peace are scummy to me, but peace much more so.
I guess one could look at it that way- or you could look at it that I find both scummy but don't think that both are mafia, because that would be terrible play.

 

This doesn’t even make sense dude. You have both of us as your scum reads, while at the same time accusing me for teaming up with Effie to go after Peace (which is obviously a lie), and then you don’t think that we are both scum because that would be terrible play from our part?

 

Pfft, eagerly pushing for an easy hoof lynch, are we? not AGAIN....*yawn*

 

I also don’t like this part of your post because you are purposefully defending yourself by bringing up the fact that you are often a Day 1 lynch. It isn’t the fault of other players when they want to lynch you because they find your play scummy.

 

 

##vote Hoof

 

 

1: I do it all the time- I don't like making definite statements in a game like this. No, you have been tunnelling on Elf more than anything.

2: I said that I would expand when I have time- even now I feel too tired to form a proper case. Don't take it seriously? your call

3: what was wrong with it WAS that it was senseless and over-eager. There was no real reason behind it, and it happened so soon, and it reeked of scum trying to get a quick lynch, before the day could get into full swing. only the scum benefit from a quick day.

4: I don't mean LITERALLY on a team with Elf, I meant it  figuratively. One can find someone scummy without someone absolutely positively being scum. There is always room for error and uncertainty.

5: true enough. twould be nice if this particular train on me wasn't terrible.

 

I'm still waiting for Nolder to respond to me...

 

Hoof thinking I'm town really doesn't do anything for me. I don't see how she can conclude "one of" Cloud or Peace is scum, but assume it's impossible that both are. I haven't seen any posts from Hoof exploring that reasoning. As a townie, knowing there's at least 3 mafia in this game, you should be pushing AT least 2 suspects if not 3... pushing "one or the other" just leaves you open to mislynch options if they're both town and you're scum.

 

##Vote Hoof

I'm willing to listen to you Hoof, but I need far better than this. 

 

Krak, you should really expand your thoughts, you're floating a lot.

 

I'm... I'm a guy..... :P

 

Well, maybe not impossible, but not likely in my opinion. It seems like bad play for 2 out of a likely 3 scum members to act like Peace and Cloud have been.... but I can see how it might be open for me to make that mislynch claim and such. I still think that it is worthwhile to examine things from the hypothetical that both, neither and one of them is scum, like I did with Peace and Cloud. If you disagree, whatever, this isn't the basis of my case anyway. If we lynch peace and he flips town, I promise I won't call for Cloud to be lynched based on this logic, mmkay?

 

I second your call for Krak to expand. What is your reasoning behind your vote on me Krak?

[csarmi]

Via is replacing dansyc

[csarmi]

There is a deadline in effect now: 2013-12-29, 20:00 GMT

 

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20131229T21&p0=50&msg=ChristmasMM-D1

[csarmi]

VoteCount Day01#08

 

 

01 - Peace: -> Elf -> Golden

02 - Cloud: -> Elf -> Turin -> Hoof

03 - Krak: -> Cloud -> Hoof

04 - GoldenEyes: -> Elf

05 - TommyRod: -> Peace -> Turin -> Hoof

06 - Leelou: -> Nolder

07 - Theodora

08 - Elffern: -> Peace -> NULL

09 - Hally

10 - BFG: -> Golden

11 - Via

12 - Nolder

13 - BlackHoof: -> Peace

14 - Turin: -> Tommy

 

 

 

Elf - 1 - Golden

Nolder - 1 - Leelou

Peace - 1 - Hoof

Golden - 2 - BFG, Peace

Tommy - 1 - Turin

Hoof - 3 - Cloud, Krak, Tommy

 

Not voting: Thea, Elf, Hally, Via, Nolder

8 to lynch.

Deadline: 2013-12-29, 20:00 GMT

Countdown: http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20131229T21&p0=50&msg=ChristmasMM-D1

[Nolder]

Checking in for today.

Don't have much time but I notice Hallia hasn't been around much.

Want to hear more from her before our deadline. If not, I have no problem with sending her to the executioner.

 

##Vote Hallia

[Leelou]

I'm mostly getting town vibes from Cloud, Tommy and Krak. 

Turin, I'm not sure if he's really just being a stickler for the personal attack thing or seriously thinks Tommy is scum. He's one I want to watch because if it's the first thing then that is not helpful to town at all. I also don't really feel like he's defending himself well. 

Peace is hard for me to read since he is always very stubborn. He's in my null to scum pile right now. 

Goldy is coming off more scummy than townie this game. Townie Goldy is more precise. I'd feel comfortable voting him today. 

Hoof is an easy day 1 lynch because the scummiest things flow out of his mouth regardless of alignment. He's one to watch for now. Not sure if I like the votes on him. 

Elf seems stubborn, not sure about her since I don't believe I've played with her before. 

Nolder - he'll show his ass after a couple days if he's scum. 

Hallia has a bad habit of not posting game content. She does this more so as scum and I don't like that the only thing she's commented on so far is a post by Goldy. I could vote for her. 

Now I'm just waiting for Theo and Via to catch up and post before I can get a feel for them.

 

I really wish BFG would post some more. 

 

##unvote, ##vote Hallia

[Elaevia]

Hey all, reading now

[csarmi]

Welcome Via!

[Theodora]

Hi guys, I am really sorry for not being active but this is my first day out of the bed :( I didn't wanted a virus from Santa but that was what I got. Those who have played with me know I am not inactive in any way, so I am trying to catch up. A lot going on and not necessarily words I like but I will post in a bit a more substantial piece

[Theodora]

Tommy

Interesting that you use Darthe as a benchmark for comparison in more than one of your initial posts, doesn’t that hurt your ego?  Sometimes the most timid need to repeat how grand they are, so to believe it and act with an air of confidence.  It’s your style, I guess, so since it works for you…

Also, the OP challenge to Leelou – she is experienced as a player and won’t jump into this kind of stupid nudging. I wouldn't say she failed.

Nevertheless, you give a very good scum hunting and for now I have no doubt about you. For now, this is town

 

Cloud

you are obviously scumhunting and interrogating, the only isssue I have with you is you tunnelling too hard on Elf. This sounds like Despo to me, not Darthe :)

 

Elf - I haven't played with you (this is my 4th game after all) but you seem uber-defensive. Defense is good, I saw ho Cloud came after you but just be yourself. You know you are not mafia, keep it cool. As long as you are not Mafia for real

 

Peace, peace, peace.... I have played some games with you and this is clear scum Peace. Please prove me wrong as I love Megadeath

 

Leelou - last time same behaviour and she was mislynnched. I will keep my eyes on you but now, town leaning - I like it how you handle Tommy Boy

 

Nol - I admired you for a game we played before and I will give you a clean slate but my gut feeling tells me to watch out. So I will.

 

Hallia - I am tempted to vote agianst you, as you never play along, give strange indications. I don't know. I won't vote you because I have a winner:

 

GoldenEyes - where did this interrogative, scum-smelling cop gone? You are one of the smartest people around and this, I can vow, so with you and Despo at your back I was afraid we were lost, yet, nothing that a newbie mafia couldn't say. I am disappointed of you, Golden, as you are for me nothing but a person, who doesn't care which for me and your meta is Mafia.

 

## GoldenEyes

[Turin Turambar]

Didnt you accuse Turin of stating  I was town previously?  Is that not "town hunting?"

I don't recall ever stating Peace was town.

[Theodora]

Blah ##vote Goldeneyes

[Theodora]

Ah, Turin, you and Krak are in my gray zone like you say.

 

Turin, why against Tommy and Cloud? Please summerise it for the stupid girls like me

[csarmi]

Ah, Turin, you and Krak are in my gray zone like you say.

 

Turin, why against Tommy and Cloud? Please summerise it for the stupid girls like me

[csarmi]

VoteCount Day01#09

 

 

01 - Peace: -> Elf -> Golden

02 - Cloud: -> Elf -> Turin -> Hoof

03 - Krak: -> Cloud -> Hoof

04 - GoldenEyes: -> Elf

05 - TommyRod: -> Peace -> Turin -> Hoof

06 - Leelou: -> Nolder -> Hally

07 - Theodora: -> Golden

08 - Elffern: -> Peace -> NULL

09 - Hally

10 - BFG: -> Golden

11 - Via

12 - Nolder: -> Hally

13 - BlackHoof: -> Peace

14 - Turin: -> Tommy

 

 

 

Elf - 1 - Golden

Peace - 1 - Hoof

Golden - 3 - BFG, Peace, Thea

Tommy - 1 - Turin

Hoof - 3 - Cloud, Krak, Tommy

Hally - 2 - Nolder, Leelou

 

Not voting: Elf, Hally, Via

8 to lynch.

Deadline: 2013-12-29, 20:00 GMT

Countdown: http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20131229T21&p0=50&msg=ChristmasMM-D1

[Leelou]

Garbage 

[_CLOUD]

Yeah Blackhoof doesn't look good.

 

 

##unvote vote Blackhoof

 

You now all of a sudden agree with me? You didn’t respond back at me when I retorted your arguments for why I must be scum, and you kept your vote on me since then without bother to reply to anything in the game except to call me out for buddying, so your sudden switch to Hoof without explanation seems odd.

 

 

Last first. When were you confirmed as town? BFG is the innocent Child and therefore the ONLY confirmed townie at present.

 

I don’t agree with your argument that you can only call confirmed townies, town. Town hunting is just like scum hunting an essential part of playing mafia, and you accusing Tom of having strong town reads sounds like a cheap scum strategy.

 

So for you to go around like you are the instructor of mafia in this game where even the experienced have mentors(or advisors) is ridiculous. I have used similar tactics in a game here at least once. There was a new player game and my student vanished at the start of the game making me the player. I was able to lead the town of new folks to achieve mafia victory. I have also seen Dap employ this in the Indiana Jones game I helped(term used loosely) Ithi mod some time ago. So forgive me for not being ready to follow into lock step with you.

 

You are against the idea of someone leading town because you have seen it being done by the mafia twice before? You are trying to support an argument by only presenting evidence that would back up your claim; a claim which is at the same time wrong because almost every game has a player who takes up the mantle of town captain on him.

 

 

Since I think you are the most likely mafia at the moment followed by your most pro town player cloud. In reading to here I did notice a lot of chummy behavior between you including where he defended you from elf. you called him out but backed off the defending charge from seeing his vote on elf. All that does is turn it from regular defense to chainsaw defense. But you already knew that.

 

So you think I’m scum because Tom has a strong town read on me? I have made a lot of game related posts since the start of Day 1 and yet the best thing you could find to try and accuse me was to grab on to that one post where I appear to be defending Tommy. You can’t actively engage in scumhunting without ending up defending someone else.

 

You start out with that ridiculous OP challenge thing, like Leelou said to WOW the crowd with your skills. Then proceed to demand that town follow you to victory. You don't say a town victory tho do you? And several times you have stated that anyone that grinds against you must either not like your style or be mafia themselves. How about I just think you are mafia?

 

And now you are just nitpicking. I bet that if Tom said that we should follow him to achieve a town victory you would have jumped on him by saying that if he were actually town he wouldn’t have stated it like that. The OP challenge wasn’t even that big of a deal to begin with, and so far I think you have taken jokingly comments out of context, argued semantics and made mountains out of molehills.

 

 

He has been quite eager to get thru D1 it appears. This is usually more evident in mafia members that have good roles they want to utilize.

 

I haven't been eager to get through Day 1 at all. I have the second highest post count of any player in this game, and I have arguably been the most effective scumhunter so far. It’s interesting that you seem to agree with Nolder’s line of reasoning because you start taking a completely different stance on this topic when you talk about Nolder’s play.

 

When you made the comment "when are we going to lynch Turin or Hoof" there wasn't much hoofie discussion yet. I was wondering why you picked him to put in there with me. You were following Tommy onto me so that I get but why hoofie at that point?

 

Check post #283 where I give my reasoning for why I don’t like Hoof’s vote on Peace.

 

or was Darthe pulling your strings there like with the Leelou is town thing?

 

Darthe hasn’t been pulling my strings at all. It isn’t even allowed for a mentor to actively participate in a game. I got a town read on Leelou because she seemed to have gotten genuinely annoyed at Tom’s light-hearted comment at the start of the game, and I don’t see a reason for her to be if she were mafia.

 

Added to the Tommy defender team. The little shot Night 0 could easily be a distance ploy. If Tommy is mafia like I think then she could very well be also. mafia lean.

 

You only seem to have a mafia read on me and Leelou because we both think Tom is town. Your argument that everyone who has a town read on Tom is mafia themselves is within the same line of reasoning as your accusation of Tom where you call him out for thinking that everyone who disagrees with him is mafia.

 

 

Also didn't like that he called cloud out for actively trying to get a lynch on D1. There is no such thing as pressuring without the intent to lynch. it is like saying that you are voting someone to pressure them. If the votee doesn't think that you are serious then they will just ignore your vote.

 

I agree with the things you said here, but the reason I quoted this part is because it’s in contrast to what you said earlier when you gave your reads on me. You repeated Nolder by calling me out for being eager to get through Day 1 and now you don’t agree with him anymore. So which one is it? I advise you to stick to one story the next time you are mafia.

 

No one but the mafia know who the mafia are at this point, and there are few ways for townies to know any other townies either.

 

There is. It’s called being a good scumhunter.

 

So you guys gonna claim masons now? Cause if your not mafia, they have already surmised that is about the only thing that could justify your complete faith in cloud at this time as well as his in you and the banter you are throwing back and forth.

 

Tom and I aren’t Masons or Lovers.

 

 

##Unvote Hoof, ##Vote Turin.

[_CLOUD]

Lazy votes on Hallia are lazy. We won't get any info from her lynch.

[_CLOUD]

Welcome Via and Theo :)