"How Feminism Hurts Men"

[MasterAblar]

I think that sports which focus on fine body control like ski jumping, archery, gymnastics, ice skating and a few others are going to be where mixing the competition might be possible, although gymnastics is a bit particular since men and women focus on different aspects. On the other hand sports where the athletes compete directly against one another, whether contact like basketball and soccer, or non contact like tennis and volleyball, are going to be very difficult to mix at the highest level. Sports that focus on basic physical attributes such as speed, strength, and endurance, like track and field events and cross country skiing are also unlikely to be mixed.

 

Frankly there's just a lot of sports out there. It's really pretty simple though: those sports which do not focus on physical attributes which favor men, are the ones most likely to be mixed.

[michellem]

4Chan is now threatening to release naked photos of Emma Watson as "revenge" for her speach at the UN.

 

 

"The site threatening Watson was greeted with glee on 4chan and Reddit, where commenters explicitly stated their hope that the threats would force her to abandon her feminist campaigning. "If only her nudes got leaked and she had the load on her face. Her feminism kick would be over," a commenter wrote. "If this is true her recent feminism rally is going to be shutdown hard," wrote another. "Feminism," one 4chan user opined, "is a growing cancer.""

 

 

http://www.vox.com/2014/9/23/6832243/the-sexual-threats-against-emma-watson-are-an-attack-on-women

[Jak 0' the Shadows]

 

double post

[Jak 0' the Shadows]

4Chan is now threatening to release naked photos of Emma Watson as "revenge" for her speach at the UN.

 

 

"The site threatening Watson was greeted with glee on 4chan and Reddit, where commenters explicitly stated their hope that the threats would force her to abandon her feminist campaigning. "If only her nudes got leaked and she had the load on her face. Her feminism kick would be over," a commenter wrote. "If this is true her recent feminism rally is going to be shutdown hard," wrote another. "Feminism," one 4chan user opined, "is a growing cancer.""

 

 

http://www.vox.com/2014/9/23/6832243/the-sexual-threats-against-emma-watson-are-an-attack-on-women

 

Ugh, so much for tolerance of opinion.

[michellem]

Have you ever met 4chan? Tolerance of opinion doesn't exist there. It's their way or the highway. And they hate, hate, hate feminists.

[Jak 0' the Shadows]

Have you ever met 4chan? Tolerance of opinion doesn't exist there. It's their way or the highway. And they hate, hate, hate feminists.

I confess, I've only ever heard of 4chan. I don't know much about them. But they can't have anything on Emma Watson. She isn't like most celebrities, she doesn't do nude photos. She's classier than that. Gotta be photoshoped. But still, trying to ruin someone's image because you don't agree with them, so stupid. 

[Ryrin]

Whether she has nude photos or not is beside the point.

[Jak 0' the Shadows]

Whether she has nude photos or not is beside the point.

 

 I didn't say it was, Ry. I was merely expressing my opinion that Emma Watson is more virtuous than most celebrities (ex: Miley Cyrus, Megan Fox, Jennifer Lawrence), I was paying her a compliment.    

[Ryrin]

Well, for me, if someone has private nude photos, it doesn't reflect on their virtuosity.

 

They are private and should stay the way they were intended.

[Jak 0' the Shadows]

Well, for me, if someone has private nude photos, it doesn't reflect on their virtuosity. :)

 

They are private and shoyld stay the way they were intend.

 

Really, that's just asking for trouble. So I guess it would also reflect on her good judgement. But what would the purpose be of 'private nude photos.' For 'sexting' and sending to friends?   Is it that how being an adult works? Do most people do that? Do most people have 'private nude photos'? Sorry, I'm not an adult, so I wouldn't know...  It just doesn't seem very virtuous to me... Maybe if you were married to the person you were sending it too.... but then they would be able to see you in person..... I dunno, seems dumb to me. But then again, I'm not in the elite adult class. My brain obviously isn't developed enough to comprehend the ways of adults. As I am repeatably told, 'Do not meddle in the affairs of adults, for they are subtle and quick to anger.'  Maybe a simpleton like me can't comprehend why one should have ANY nude photos, public OR private. 

[Ryrin]

Yes, you are not an adult and apparently don't comprehend that private nude photos can be between consenting adults and not for public exploitation. It's a very simple concept actually.

 

What is "asking for trouble" are people who hack other's accounts and private information.. I believe it is illegal as well.... and lacking in virtue.

 

I don't view a crime victim as "lacking good judgement" or "asking for trouble."

 

I really think someone needs to teach you respect for women.

[Jak 0' the Shadows]

Yes, you are not an adult and apparently don't comprehend that private nude photos can be between two people and not for public exploitation. It's a very simple concept actually.

 

What is "asking for trouble" are people who hack other's accounts and private information.. I believe it is illegal as well.... and lacking in virtue.

 

I don't view a crime victim as "lacking good judgement."

 

I really think someone needs to teach you respect for women.

 

Careful Ry, you might get banned from the thread if you use language like that. I may not be an adult, but an adult like you should have learned by now to be civil.  Now, as I was saying. It's asking for trouble if you post nude pics to the internet. They may be 'private', but when you post something to the internet, it is saved to a database somewhere. Even if you take them down later, they are always there somewhere. It just isn't a good idea. Ever heard of prudence? That's a virtue and it's a good idea. Think before you act. It's not hard. 

 

Once upon a time, in a land called the United States, the department of defense didn't guard their missiles well enough and some were stolen and used to devastating effect by ISIS. The American people called both the department of defense and ISIS 'idiots' one for their crime, the other for their carelessness. 

 

NOW do you see what I was trying to say? 

[Jak 0' the Shadows]

I think that women shouldn't view everything (like my comments) as an attack. It makes them look insecure and immature. I'm not out to get you, so stop treating me like I'm the bad guy. Seriously. I expected more from adults. It makes me think that so-called 'mature adults' and the young people are closer to being peers than I first thought. 

[michellem]

Ok, I think both of you need to calm down.

 

As for nude photos, I don't think it reflects on a womans virtue or lack thereof. It's like saying a woman who is proactive during sex has less of a virtue than one who just lies there. In our modern times, it's a quite common part of a sexual relationship.

[Jak 0' the Shadows]

Ok, I think both of you need to calm down.

 

As for nude photos, I don't think it reflects on a womans virtue or lack thereof. It's like saying a woman who is proactive during sex has less of a virtue than one who just lies there. In our modern times, it's a quite common part of a sexual relationship.

 

I don't think there' anything wrong with sending nude photos to your spouse. I don't believe that you should have a sexual relationship unless your married, but that's my opinion. I was mainly referring to the prudence or lack thereof or posting nude photos online. I was really just saying that it's a bad idea.  

[michellem]

Well I don't think neither Watson or any of the other female celebrities who got their photos leaked has posted their photos online... People hacked their phones etc to get to them.

[Jak 0' the Shadows]

And, how did the hackers get their phones? They either didn't take enough care of those phones, or they did use the internet to send them. Both are a failure on their part. A horrible crime was done to them, yes, but you shouldn't do that. It's just a bad idea. Doesn't excuse the crime, but it was a bad idea. Though Watson didn't have any photos leaked. 4Chan is making empty threats. The entire threat was a hoax. 

[The_Fnorrll_Reborn]

Still monitoring every post of this thread, guys. Please make my life easy.

[michellem]

And, how did the hackers get their phones? They either didn't take enough care of those phones, or they did use the internet to send them. Both are a failure on their part. A horrible crime was done to them, yes, but you shouldn't do that. It's just a bad idea. Doesn't excuse the crime, but it was a bad idea. Though Watson didn't have any photos leaked. 4Chan is making empty threats. The entire threat was a hoax. 

 

You have your morals, and I'm not really interested in discussing them, as that's not a part of this topic. But, I'll say that what happens between two consenting adults, are between them and them only. The point here isn't wich celebrities have nude photos or not, or if Emma Watson have them or not, if the threat was an empty one or if someone actually had photos like that of her. The point is, Watson made an excellent speach about why feminism is important, a very good, stirring speach that went viral very quickly and garnered a lot of sympathy. And when that happened, the immediate reactions of the murkier parts of the internet, was to backlash and try to drag Watson down.

 

This is a particularly interesting situation, because Watson is very popular amongst a lot of the boys who are problematic when it comes to this issue. If you look at sites like 9gag, Reddit etc before this, the "geek boys" adored her. With her speech, they felt betrayed. Someone they had seen as "theirs", now spoke against them, on a subject they hate. So then revenge is the name of the game. Threaten to have nude photos of her leaked, wether those photos exist or not are irrelevant. Because they threatened to use her private life, her body, to teach her a lesson. It's only a couple of steps down from revenge-rape. Because they try to take control over her body, to control her and her actions.

 

And that brings me to the other celebrities who's photos were leaked. Do you really think only female celebrities send nudes to their partner? I know Jennifer Lawrence has a boyfriend; if she's sent him nudes, I'm pretty darn sure he's sent her some back. But, no male celebrities photos were leaked (unless there was a man in the same photo as a woman). It is because there are boys who feel like they have a right to these womens bodies. The women has chosen to be a celebrity after all; they've "chosen" to make themselves objects that boys lust after, and so they have a right to their bodies. It doesn't take long to see these meanings and thoughts, if you take a trip on certain pages on the internet and read the comments. So the problem here isn't wether or not people take nude photos or not; it's the fact that other people feel like they have a right to those photos, a right to see a stranger's body naked, and use those photos to their own means, wether that is just getting off, or spreading them to hurt the person that took them. And the main problem is that 99% of the time this happens, it's guys leaking/using/stealing a womans photo, especially when it's a celebrity involved.

[The_Fnorrll_Reborn]

Mish your post started off very balanced right up until a point, which to be entirely honest, is what I find to be the case very often with feminism, or in fact most causes that people get very passionate about. You're absolutely right that morals is not what we are discussing here and that virtue is not a quality that only women possess. I don't think Jak spoke about it in a way that limited it to women only though.

 

You're also right that no nudes of males have been leaked, but I don't see how anyone in their right mind could think they have a "right" to see naked pictures of someone else without their permission- but it's available and they just don't care. The fact that it is women who get shown in this way is probably more due to the fact than men, in general, seem to be more sexually open or "dirty minded" than women. Sorry fellas- but on average I'd say it's the truth. Of of uprise we are all individuals, but I'm pretty sure the stats of guys/girls watching porn, for example, would back up what I'm saying. Oh I know girls do- but guys more so, and are more open about it.

 

You made a lot of other good points as well, and for the record, what happened was beyond deplorable.

[michellem]

Fnorrll, I wish I could say that the parts of my posts I'm guessing you think is umbalanced, was my own thoughts about this that I've made up. Sadly, most I've said, are things I have witnessed being said myself. I spend quite a bit of time on 9gag, and sadly too much time reading the comments there. And all the opinions and thoughts I've stated in my former post, is things I've seen being said. I'm not saying it's everyone; absolutley not at all. But there is a big group of guys, the guys who gets mad about being "friendzoned", cause they're such a nice guy, they've been there for her a friend for so long, the least they deserve is a bit of sex and the chance to woo her as a partner, right? The "nice guys". And the "geeky guys", who want a hot girl with big boobs they can play Pokemon together with. She must be hot mind you; no average girl will do. The guys who think everytime a girl posts a comment on any sort of picture on 9gag, they have the right to come on to her, in various degrees of explicitness, or to come with comments on her looks, wether positive or negative, completly ignoring what the girl actually said in her comment. I have seen guys say "Yeah Watson deserves to have her nudes leaked, not that she's joined the feminist camp". I've seen guys say they like her less, for "coming out" as a feminist.

 

 

Re: the porn part, I think you're right about the statistics, but I think you're wrong on the reasons. I've talked with alot of girls about this, of all sexual orientations and walks of life, single or in a relationship. Women and men get turned on by different things, and so porn made for men is rarely hot for women. I know several of my friends are beyond frustrated by this, and so many girls end up turning to tacky romance novels, because even though it's far from perfect, it's closer to what they want than most mainstream porn. It is slowly starting to change, there are more companies working based more directly towards women. There is also the cultural thing involved here; the old thinking that men are the conqurers, the sexully active, while women are the sexually demure, only being with their husband. These are old ways of thinking, and it still reflects in our culture; a guy who's had many chicks is given praise, but a girl who's had many guys is named a slut. And so, men can watch porn because they are men, they're supposed to be highly sexual all the time. But women's active sexuality is still, unconsoicly, seen as a shameful thing. So women's shouldn't pleasure themselves, they shouldn't watch porn, they shouldn't have several partners.

 

This too creates troubles for men again. Because, not every man is constantly ready for sex, and alot of guys feel like they've failed, that they're weak, less of a man, because they have a low sex drive, or no sex drive, or issues with sex. "Real men" aren't supposd to have that.

[Ryrin]

And, how did the hackers get their phones? They either didn't take enough care of those phones, or they did use the internet to send them. Both are a failure on their part. A horrible crime was done to them, yes, but you shouldn't do that. It's just a bad idea. Doesn't excuse the crime, but it was a bad idea. Though Watson didn't have any photos leaked. 4Chan is making empty threats. The entire threat was a hoax.

 

Jak,

 

The best way I can compare it, is to a burglary. You have something in your home and you lock the doors and go out. When you come home, you discover your house has been broken into and things have been stolen.

 

Photography is different today. The photos were stored privately. Someone hacked (burglarized) their private photo storage and then made the photos public.

 

Neither is a failure on the part of the crime victim.

 

Whether you agree or not about using private photos in an adult sexual relationship is not the point.

[The_Fnorrll_Reborn]

Fnorrll, I wish I could say that the parts of my posts I'm guessing you think is umbalanced, was my own thoughts about this that I've made up. Sadly, most I've said, are things I have witnessed being said myself. I spend quite a bit of time on 9gag, and sadly too much time reading the comments there. And all the opinions and thoughts I've stated in my former post, is things I've seen being said. I'm not saying it's everyone; absolutley not at all. But there is a big group of guys, the guys who gets mad about being "friendzoned", cause they're such a nice guy, they've been there for her a friend for so long, the least they deserve is a bit of sex and the chance to woo her as a partner, right? The "nice guys". And the "geeky guys", who want a hot girl with big boobs they can play Pokemon together with. She must be hot mind you; no average girl will do. The guys who think everytime a girl posts a comment on any sort of picture on 9gag, they have the right to come on to her, in various degrees of explicitness, or to come with comments on her looks, wether positive or negative, completly ignoring what the girl actually said in her comment. I have seen guys say "Yeah Watson deserves to have her nudes leaked, not that she's joined the feminist camp". I've seen guys say they like her less, for "coming out" as a feminist.

 

 

Re: the porn part, I think you're right about the statistics, but I think you're wrong on the reasons. I've talked with alot of girls about this, of all sexual orientations and walks of life, single or in a relationship. Women and men get turned on by different things, and so porn made for men is rarely hot for women. I know several of my friends are beyond frustrated by this, and so many girls end up turning to tacky romance novels, because even though it's far from perfect, it's closer to what they want than most mainstream porn. It is slowly starting to change, there are more companies working based more directly towards women. There is also the cultural thing involved here; the old thinking that men are the conqurers, the sexully active, while women are the sexually demure, only being with their husband. These are old ways of thinking, and it still reflects in our culture; a guy who's had many chicks is given praise, but a girl who's had many guys is named a slut. And so, men can watch porn because they are men, they're supposed to be highly sexual all the time. But women's active sexuality is still, unconsoicly, seen as a shameful thing. So women's shouldn't pleasure themselves, they shouldn't watch porn, they shouldn't have several partners.

 

This too creates troubles for men again. Because, not every man is constantly ready for sex, and alot of guys feel like they've failed, that they're weak, less of a man, because they have a low sex drive, or no sex drive, or issues with sex. "Real men" aren't supposd to have that.

 

As for the first part of your post, Mish, maybe I'm just way too far removed form that mentality to even know about it. If I saw any of that going on in front of my eyes I'd beat the perpetrator with a stick. Sadly, people online tend to type things they wouldn't say or do in real life and I still don't think that deep down those guys think they have a right to see pics of a girl naked or react certain ways- they just talk the talk cos they are online. But again, maybe my mind just can't compute such lowmindedness. As for the friendzone and real life issue, lol, guys have no clue. People like that are total and utter idiots and I'm firmly in your camp in that one. What's ironic is that they don't realise that that exact attitude is holding them back form getting what they want more of. Women (quite rightly) want to be respected and treated well. If those kind of men understood that- if, in fact, they didn't need to understand that, because like for the rest of us with an iq higher than that of a chimp, it was blatantly obvious- they would get a lot more sexual and/or romantic interest. But to be honest I'm glad they don't because the gene pool is all the better for it.

 

As for the second part of your post, I don't have much to say. Not that I disagree. Just drawing a blank on a response right now.

 

 

Ryrin- not a bad analogy, but you're missing an important point. Your computer is your property. What is on it is private and yours. The internet is a public superhighway. As i'v mentioned before, posting something somewhere online is more like leaving your valuables it on "your" table in a public cafe. Like it or not, anything which goes online is at risk of being taken. We could as easily be talking about online credit card fraud. Is it right? No.

[Ryrin]

Photography is digital now. Photos are stored electronically and on CD's.

 

There are private and protected sites. These women did not leave their nude photos on a table at a restaurant. A locked door at a home isn't an invitation for a burglary.

[Jak 0' the Shadows]

 

And, how did the hackers get their phones? They either didn't take enough care of those phones, or they did use the internet to send them. Both are a failure on their part. A horrible crime was done to them, yes, but you shouldn't do that. It's just a bad idea. Doesn't excuse the crime, but it was a bad idea. Though Watson didn't have any photos leaked. 4Chan is making empty threats. The entire threat was a hoax.

Jak,

 

The best way I can compare it, is to a burglary. You have something in your home and you lock the doors and go out. When you come home, you discover your house has been broken into and things have been stolen.

 

Photography is different today. The photos were stored privately. Someone hacked (burglarized) their private photo storage and then made the photos public.

 

Neither is a failure on the part of the crime victim.

 

Whether you agree or not about using private photos in an adult sexual relationship is not the point.

 

 

You missed the point. I am NOT defending any hackers. I was complimenting Emma Watson. Why was that such a big deal for you? Why does that make you be uncivil to me? I am not trying to 'blame the victim' I am advising caution. Don't read into everything as an attack. I agree with almost everything you said. In the beginning, I just stated that I didn't understand why one should have ANY nude photos public OR private. I said that it's a bad idea to store things of a sensitive nature online. Then you jumped to conclusions and said this: 

 

 

'Yes, you are not an adult and apparently don't comprehend that private nude photos can be between consenting adults and not for public exploitation. It's a very simple concept actually.

 

What is "asking for trouble" are people who hack other's accounts and private information.. I believe it is illegal as well.... and lacking in virtue.

 

I don't view a crime victim as "lacking good judgement" or "asking for trouble."

 

I really think someone needs to teach you respect for women. '

 

 

 

WTF????? 

 

THAT was an attack. Act your age. Seriously. Was that necessary? No. It wasn't. I expressed an opinion that something is a bad idea.

 

I know the hackers are disgusting pieces of shit. 

 

So why am I the bad guy? Explain Ryrin. Please.