[Advanced] Vacation Mafia! Day 7

[aemonkristen]

Early reveal with a soft-claim is scummy and I am more than happy to put a little more pressure on to see how she responds. Honestly, who does that at L-5? What was the point?

 

UNVOTE

 

VOT HALLIA

[hazelkrs1]

Caught up again.

 

Soft claim is bad but considering the source.... it doesn't mean she's scum. Rolefishing in this scenario is worse imo. Def looks like it could be a Lenlo/Tress/Mish team here.

 

Unvote for now. Gonna see which of the trifecta I wanna vote for, and respond to a couple of things

[Lenlo]

Caught up again.

 

Soft claim is bad but considering the source.... it doesn't mean she's scum. Rolefishing in this scenario is worse imo. Def looks like it could be a Lenlo/Tress/Mish team here.

 

Unvote for now. Gonna see which of the trifecta I wanna vote for, and respond to a couple of things

How is that role fishing? She soft claimed and im pushing her on it. Role fishing is when you say things like "The cop should reveal so we can have 1 less person to be suspicious about".

 

Seriously you all claim role fishing but it looks like your just jumping on an easy buzz word, lead by scum most likely, instead of using your brains and actually thinking about what she did.

[hazelkrs1]

 

Honestly I was prob gonna vote Peace, until I saw his train was already picking up nicely, then saw Hallia's post and thought that might actually be a good competing train. She lazily bandwagons onto Peace, then says Krak is lazy..... yeahhhhh.

 

Vote Hallia.

 

Plus, tired of her coasting through games. Gives her a free pass as scum, never helps out town when town. A few day 1 lynches might discourage that behavior.

Do we or do we not have this conversation about lurky Halia in Every. Single. Game. ??? And has it changed her behavior? At some point the "lynch Halia because she's lurky and it might maybe sometime eventually possibly prod her to post more" strategy has to be thrown out the window and you have to accept her lurkiness as meta if she's allowed in a game. Please. Nonsense.

 

[look familiar?  ]

 

Off Topic

 

 

What are you entering?

Trick Or Treat Pumpkin Wheat - I got a free extract Wheat Beer kit at this year's National Homebrewers Conference in Philly.  I wasn't sure what to do with it since I've been all grain brewing for 4 or 5 years now.  Decided to spice it up by adding some roast pumpkin to the boil.  Had to add some gelatin after cold crashing at the end of secondary to clear it up [and took out the chill haze] since I typically add pumpkin to the mash.  I also added some pu-erh tea in secondary that I spiced with clove and cinammon stick.  It's a super subtle flavor that added a ton of complexity.  The kit came with WLP300, which has gotten mixed reviews but I had a lot of success with.  It pours a crystal clear amber orange with a persistant tightly laced foamy pure white head that you could scoop with a spoon.  The nose is sweet and clean with moderate clove phenols and a VERY light fruity bananna ester that compliments the wheat in a way reminiscent of bananna bread.  That bananna bread makes an appearance in the flavor profile as well in what ended up being an extremely well rounded and flavorful palate.  I'm a fan.

 

JoMamma's So Stout - Last year, 6 of us got together to buy a used bourbon barrel from a distillery.  We then proceeded to brew 70 gallons of Russian Imperial Stout [recipe inspired by AleSmith Speedway Stout].  The idea was to brew a little extra in order to keep the headspace in check as the angels took their share.  I filled a carboy with some of the leftovers that didn't make it in to the barrel and sat it on whole hazelnut coffee beans for 4 days.  I'm pretty stoked about how this came out.  Reminds me a lot of Founders Breakfast Stout - only with a bit more kick.

 

Frankenstein Stutter Stout - This is the one.  This is the RIS that sat in the bourbon barrel for 10 months.  The wort was comprised of 70 gallons from 2 batches on 6 different systems.  It was brewed towards the end of October so the "Frankenstein" name is super fitting.  I'm bottling most of my share.  This is going to be off the charts good after 18 months of bottle conditioning.  It's already on par with some of the better RIS's I've had.

 

Amber Alert - This is an American Amber I made with a slight variation on my Lagunitas IPA clone.  It reminds me a LOT of Cigar City Tocobaga Red in a distinct citrus flavor that finishes slightly sour but in a grapefruit way - as opposed to an enamel stripping way.  I think I like this better than the base beer I was going for!

 

 

/Off Topic

 

 

I think you might misunderstand my intentions. I don't suggest lynching Hallia to prod her to post more, I honestly think she needs to get lynched early in a few games till she gets the point. I know this is discussed many times, but I never actually see people follow through with this course of action.

 

If we lynch her a few times, and she continues trying to fluff her way through games, then meh you can accept it then. But aborting the policy move before it happens means you never actually get to see if it would be effective.

 

I like Mish's point about Hallia calling out Krak for being lazy and then just jumping on a train.  I didn't like Hallia's explanation though. 

 

Oooooh serious face now.

 

Get it right, Key. I pointed that out about Hallia first, Mish parroted me later (I'll get to that in a sec)

 

BG, have you taken lessons from Wombat in my absence?

 

Darthe, seems like you're just trying to be difficult. Not difficult in a good "hard to read" way, but difficult in an even-if-you-are-town-you-are-shooting-yourself-in-the-foot kind of way.  How is acting so obviously scummy in any way helpful?

 

Yates, you going to offer any of your own suggestions any time soon?

 

 

 

@Kay:  Did you have the same thing happen to you where DM didn't let you know there were new replies?  Or is the vote count definitely correct?

 

Important to note that Key chainsaw defends Tress a bit by attacking Darthe a bit (she also posted a multiquote post after this)

 

Like what?  Saying you agree with other people's reasoning/votes?

 

Side note: Awesome that you brew and get awards for it!  My husband just started making hard cider and a close friend of mine has been brewing just for our group for about a year now.  It's a crazy process.  I would never have thought about all the tiny things that matter such a great deal.

 

And while I'm noticing stuff, kinda funny that Key keeps making these game related posts, yet finished them off with something either off-topic or something not directly involved with the scumhunt (in post above she finished off with the helpful townie checking the VC, this post she goes offtopic bout brewing).

 

Anyways not a strong scum read on her, especially after a couple of other recent posts that seemed reasonable. Still thought worth pointing out tho.

 

I added a vote to someone I was interested in pursuing because a valid point had been made against them. There is a difference

 

No, not really. You called out Krak for being lazy, but you never said what point was made against Peace, or gave any reasoning for your vote or anything. You placed a lazy bandwagon vote, there is no difference between a lazy bandwagon vote you made and a lazy vote made by someone else.

 

Alright, mini-iso's coming up on a couple of people

[hazelkrs1]

Mini-iso on Mish:

 

Well we have a deadline tomorrow, isn't this fun?

 

Although I'll join Des on Vote Hallia . I like that train better than the Peace-train.

 

She's making a trend out of sheeping me lately, but meh sheeping is still worth pointing out. Curious to see when she'll flip from buddying me to attacking me (hint: It will prob be after this mini-iso )

 

 

I added a vote to someone I was interested in pursuing because a valid point had been made against them. There is a difference

 

That's not what you said at the time, convenient to say now though.

 

 

As to your claim: Firstly, wow, premature. Secondly, there's no gurantee for that to be a trigger, or for it to be a pro-town trigger. None of us had alignements at all to start off with, so triggers also decided who would be mafia. Very, very thin explanation there.

 

 

To the first paragraph: Eh? Hallia's explanation doesn't make any sense still, regardless of if she said that before or now. Looks like you just trying to give yourself an out for leaving her alone.

 

To the second paragraph: While she's right in that Hallia's logic about triggers is poor, she starts the scolding admonishing tone that I love using as mafia to look more townie "Grrrr why you claim so early! Why you soft claim?!?!"

 

 

 

Solid post.

 

Also, Mish you doubt her claim?

 

 

You mean the very premature  claim that she posted an image wich is a sure trigger, so she's got a PR and thus we should automatically trust that she's town? Yes, I do doubt that. Mafia have PRs too. Soft claiming is something I'm not a fan of, and until she shares exactly what role she has, and preferably proves it with no CC and some night actions, I'm gonna continue to doubt that.

Do you trust her claim? If so, why?

 

 

Continues the scolding tone, and also blatantly rolefishes (until she shares EXACTLY what role she has)

 

 

**sniffs**

Rolefishing stinks.

 

Soft claiming stinks more.

 

 

I wouldn't say that's correct. It's really situational, honestly, but overall I'd say rolefishing is def scummier than soft claims. Both scum and town PR's trying to still hide for some reason might soft claim, whereas a townie actually trying to rolefish... yeahhhh.

 

Deal with it, Ishy. I'm not willing to give everyone and their grandma a free pass because they sort of claim a role, completly needlessly, without going the whole way with a full claim. Soft claiming gives the mafia time to think up a fake claim before having to commit to anything.

 

She didn't bother trying to defend herself; she threw out a soft claim and disappeared. That's scummy and it's as easy as that. If you think I'm scummy for actually wanting a straight answer out of her, well that's your problem, not mine.

 

Although I hate using this word, she def seems a bit overdefensive here. And Mish as scum def lashes back at those who fos her more often.

 

---

 

Mini-iso on Lenlo:

 

 

Okay as far as game thoughts, all I have so far is RTE seemed to be making a bit of a show about not trusting anyone, Peace seems strangely selective in who he focuses on, and Lenlo defended Darthe pretty strongly.

 

Honestly I was prob gonna vote Peace, until I saw his train was already picking up nicely, then saw Hallia's post and thought that might actually be a good competing train. She lazily bandwagons onto Peace, then says Krak is lazy..... yeahhhhh.

 

Vote Hallia.

 

Plus, tired of her coasting through games. Gives her a free pass as scum, never helps out town when town. A few day 1 lynches might discourage that behavior.

3  is not picking up nicely imo, but I can see what you mean with her lazy jump onto Peace.

 

Also you can call that defending if you want, ima call it calling people out on their crap.

 

 

I'm gonna bonk you on the head next time you try quibbling about semantics about a word like "defending" or "rolefishing" or something. Come on man, give that angle a rest.

 

 

 

 

 

Tress's teammate.

 

Yup, team Town.

 

unvote Vote BG 

 

 

Ugh @ this post. Automatically assumes Tress to be town so quick? He does seem to want to link himself to Tress pretty strongly, this actually makes me somewhat less suspicious of Tress counter-intuitively.

 

 

I know mafias eager to get me out, my reasoning - roles were given after triggers, I was the first to post an image, a common trigger. I have a role.

If your going to claim a role, claim. Otherwise your just sowing wifom with this. Assuming you arnt mafia, which could easily be roled as well, you also just painted a target on your back when you honestly didnt need to. We have no idea what the triggers are so dont try and use them to your advantage either.

 

 

Obvious role-fishing.

 

 

**sniffs**

Rolefishing stinks.

As does your complete and utter trust of a dubious claim.

 

 

Uhm, what? I don't remember Ishy in any way saying he believed the claim. Terrible post.

 

 

Where did I say I trust her claim? I'm just saying that you can't excuse scummy play by pointing to other scummy play.

 

Its scummy play to call someone out on things now?

 

 

*headdesk*

 

And this is such a scummy response I just don't even know what to say. Defensiveness, oversimplification of scummy behavior ("I wasn't rolefishing, I was calling someone out on something!"), and obvious leading question.

 

 

Caught up again.

 

Soft claim is bad but considering the source.... it doesn't mean she's scum. Rolefishing in this scenario is worse imo. Def looks like it could be a Lenlo/Tress/Mish team here.

 

Unvote for now. Gonna see which of the trifecta I wanna vote for, and respond to a couple of things

How is that role fishing? She soft claimed and im pushing her on it. Role fishing is when you say things like "The cop should reveal so we can have 1 less person to be suspicious about".

 

Seriously you all claim role fishing but it looks like your just jumping on an easy buzz word, lead by scum most likely, instead of using your brains and actually thinking about what she did.

 

 

*bonks Lenlo on the head*

 

Dude, GIVE UP THE SEMANTICS ARGUMENT!!!!!

 

There's nothing that says that something only qualifies for rolefishing in absolutely blatant and egregious offenses. There's this little thing, it's called subtlety, and mafia tries to use that to slip in scummy manipulative behavior without making it so it's easy to get called out on. Scum isn't going to wave a giant red flag in the air and say "Watch out everyone, I'm about to rolefish!" when they do so. Shouldn't have to keep going over this with you, you've played more than enough games to know this.

 

You rolefished because you pushed for a full claim. You didn't just say you didn't like the softclaim and vote her, which would have been more subtle but still could have been potential rolefishing, you outright pushed for her to say exactly what her role was. THAT'S ROLEFISHING. No one is going to let her skate till endgame on a soft claim dude. Your hyper aggressiveness in pushing for her claim just shows you want your team to have more info to plan your NK later.

[hazelkrs1]

Meant to put that in spoilers. Oh well.

[hazelkrs1]

Mini-iso on Tress:

 

I won't quote or link all of them for you, but try the iso on her, it made me see something I didn't really see at first: Of her first 19 posts, 18 of them were spam and 1 was a "joke" vote on Ishy. Obviously a lot of people spammed a bit during N0, but Tress even continued that trend after day began.

 

Votes Hallia - She got a lot of quick heat for this post, tbh I at first didn't see why, but in hindsight.... eh it's still a bit of a stretch imo.

Soft defends Darthe on meta - The soft meta defense is a bit sketchy, as well as the "soon enough" part which a couple of others already commented on

Says Lenlo is buddying - What stands out to me about this post is it's brevity. Seems like Tress trying to do minimalist posts to maybe try and stay under the radar a bit, or keep from being called out for her reactions. Besides the spam, this seemed like an actual true scumtell for me

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/85406-advanced-vacation-mafia-day-1/page-15?do=findComment&comment=3060361 &

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/85406-advanced-vacation-mafia-day-1/?p=3060373

 

were her only responses to anyone's vote on her, and of course it's Ishy. Again, continues the minimalist thing.

 

So, looking at this she def COULD be scum, but really the only way I'd see voting for her over Mish or Lenlo is cause she would make a potentially good info lynch since Lenlo and Key both defended her somewhat, and Notbob to a much lesser extent.

[hazelkrs1]

Okay so reviewing all of that, I actually think the best option is to vote Lenlo.

 

Tress seems a bit off her meta (very brief posts, high proportion of spam posts), but there isn't nearly as much evidence on her as there is on Mish and Lenlo. Furthermore, I think Lenlo linking himself to her might have been a scum trying to link to a townie after being called out on defending her. As far as Mish, although she did have some big pings against her, some of the stuff against her like her buddying and parroting, and somewhat aggressive behavior, is somewhat close to her recent meta, so meh. I'd like to see her response to the points I made against her to decide on if I think she's def scum or not.

 

Lenlo seems like def scum to me. Tress train seems much lazier, mostly peeps sheeping Darthe.

[keyholder21]

Des,

 

I didn't attack Darthe with the multiquote.  I told him he was being difficult in a nonhelpful way, he said that was too vague and asked for an explanation so I provided it to him.

 

Apologies about saying Mish pointed that out about Hallia instead of referring to your post.  Maybe I just like the way she said it better .

 

Asking about the vote count is not off the scum hunt.  This time it turned out that Kay had just missed a couple.  However, it could have been something really necessary to discuss if the votecount had been correct and some people's votes weren't being registered for a reason.  I know I'm not the only person who would have wanted to know that.

 

As for going off topic at the end (ha), sorry?  I like to have a conversation in addition to playing. 

[keyholder21]

I'm posting again to respond to the rest of what you said.  I just wanted to end that post off topic .

 

I had forgotten that when Mish voted Hallia she made the point to say she was joining you.  She also does seem to be using superfluous attitude in response to Hallia's claim.  Good points.

 

I don't see as much into what Lenlo has said as you do.  His stuff just reads to me like he has a very set way that he thinks a townie should play.  The rolefishing is a bit interesting, but soft claims are also annoying and a possible mafia tactic, so it doesn't seem all the scummy to me.

[keyholder21]

*all that scummy, not the.

[keyholder21]

Keeping these short and sweet for those of you on mobile.

 

As far Tress, I don't agree that there's not as much evidence.  In addition to her weird responses and being off her meta (which is what has prompted me to leave my joke vote on her as an actual serious vote), there's also how others have voted for her and reacted to the vote on her. 

[michellem]

Why is Mish trying to be tough here?

 

Cause I want to?

 

 

Des, can't be bothered to quote all that just to reply to one thing, so I just copy/posted it:

 

"To the first paragraph: Eh? Hallia's explanation doesn't make any sense still, regardless of if she said that before or now. Looks like you just trying to give yourself an out for leaving her alone."

 

That was my point; it doesn't get her off the hook to come with that "explanation" now, when she had absolutley none to begin with. It wasn't to give myself an out to leave her alone; it was to push her further.

 

To the rest: Her claim stinks and was clumsy, so I'm not gonna let go pushing her until she states clearly what her role is. I don't get why you and Ishy are getting all hot and bothered about that. Do you think it's fine to just let her float by with a very sketchy vote, with a dubious late explanation, and then a very strange soft-claim? If she does have a town PR, she should have claimed so we don't waste the rest of the Day going back and forth on her. Let me remind you that we have a deadline TODAY, and she has said she'll be away for the weekend. Does that really feel like pro-town play to you? If she has an important town PR, and she sees she's one of those in most heat, and she'll be gone deadline day; what would be the pro-town thing to do? Soft-claiming at three votes before disappearing for the weekend surely isn't what I consider a good play for town, and I can't beleive you don't see that.

 

Also, good job at discrediting in advance any points I might make against you. Cause that's not iffy at all /sarcasm.

[michellem]

Should also be mentioned that Hallia has posted elsewhere today, but hasn't shown up in the game where she's under heat.

[Hallia]

You mean just now when I've woken up? Its 730, so that arguments invalid but nice try. And it was 5 votes not 3

[michellem]

Hallia, you posted in the metal-mafia an hour ago, that argument doesn't work.

 

5 votes or 3, it takes 10 votes to lynch, you were far from a lynch. And what were you hoping to achieve by a soft claim? To be let completly off the hook? you've played mafia long enough to know that's now how it works.

 

So are you still not gonna claim? We have a deadline in 13 hours and you look like the lynch of the day.

[Lenlo]

 

*bonks Lenlo on the head*

 

Dude, GIVE UP THE SEMANTICS ARGUMENT!!!!!

 

There's nothing that says that something only qualifies for rolefishing in absolutely blatant and egregious offenses. There's this little thing, it's called subtlety, and mafia tries to use that to slip in scummy manipulative behavior without making it so it's easy to get called out on. Scum isn't going to wave a giant red flag in the air and say "Watch out everyone, I'm about to rolefish!" when they do so. Shouldn't have to keep going over this with you, you've played more than enough games to know this.

 

You rolefished because you pushed for a full claim. You didn't just say you didn't like the softclaim and vote her, which would have been more subtle but still could have been potential rolefishing, you outright pushed for her to say exactly what her role was. THAT'S ROLEFISHING. No one is going to let her skate till endgame on a soft claim dude. Your hyper aggressiveness in pushing for her claim just shows you want your team to have more info to plan your NK later.

 

Im not going to give up on it, because MEANING MATTERS. What someone means when they post something matters a great deal. I also dont care about subtlety right now because I want hallia to either legitimately claim something or get lynched because that soft claim was really scummy with its timing and how she said it.

 

For the second paragraph, you people are letting her skate by with that soft claim right now. Your letting her get by and no one but me and Mish are questioning her on this, the rest of you are calling me scummy for refusing to let her skate by with it. 

 

The bold is an assumption that im scum and just dont like people who soft claim soft claiming like she did.

[Yates]

**sniffs**

 

Rolefishing stinks.

Yup.  Almost as badly as her reaction to the claim itself.

 

Unvote

 

Vote: Mish

[Yates]

After reading Des's post, I could be convinced to vote Hally.  But I like the way Mish handled the early soft claim less than I liked the early soft claim itself.

[Yates]

nonsequitor @NotBob

 

 

2.  IPA is good.  My favorite is Sierra Nevada Torpedo.

I will see your Torpedo and raise you a Bells Two Hearted.  Bells just started distributing in NY October 1 and I'm LOVING this ability to drink this world class example of an IPA on a whim.

 

 

[Hallia]

And I did it early because I don't know how active I can be today. Rashi's staying with me this weekend so we may be doing all things awesome

[Lenlo]

And I did it early because I don't know how active I can be today. Rashi's staying with me this weekend so we may be doing all things awesome

But you didnt claim early, you soft claimed the possibility of you having a role early and never backed it up with anything.

[John E. Kelley]

Don't worry Hobbit, you aren't todays lynch.

 

Unvote. Vote Jay Lenlo.

[michellem]

Ishy: Do you honestly think she's playing pro-town? Straight answer plz. 

[bgrishinko]

Good points Despo. It would seem unlikely for Lenlo to defend a partner so closely as mafia tend to just ignore their partners more often than not, which means it is more likely to be buddying. Even if it was partner defending and Tress is mafia too, this still seems the better bet at this point.

 

Unvote: Vote Lenlo