Thom and the Myrddral

[Guest cwestervelt]

Or he was just lucky.  Not all swords forged at Tha'kandar carry a taint.

 

Then again, there is that quote "Shadow man steal kills, boy.  It doesn't wound."  Something like that anyway.

[Davram]

That part just bugs me.  Is Thom a darkfriend or what, i mean how else could he have survived it doesn't make sense.

[TheRedSon]

I always assumed, without a lot of thought I admit, that Thom's limp occurred from twisting his knee or dislocating a hip during the fight.  It could have happened from falling, something snapping from a sudden movement, wrestling with the fade or the fade's body rolling over him or pulling him down as it died.

 

I don't have a problem with Thom surviviing that fight.  He's easily one of the most resourseful characters in the story.  I think the list of non-channelers that I'd pick in a fight against Thom is pretty short.

[Davram]

But my point is this:

 

Lets say your a Mydraal.  Some gleeman thinks he can get in the way of you and your target.  Wouldn't you just stab him with one of your killing steel blades?  I mean really

 

[Charlz Guybon]

I read an old interview with RJ.  Someone asked if Thom's knives were made with the One Power because there was blue flashes of light "off screen" when Thom fought the Myrddral.  RJ said Thom's knives are not made with the One Power.  He went on to say that the blue flashes of light occured before Thom reached the Myrddral.  So what happened?

Until, it's contradicted in the story, and it might in the rescue of Moraine, I'm going to believe that they're power wrought, RJ's contradictory statements notwithstanding.

 

It's just the simplest explanation.

[Davram]

I never though abt it that way

[TheRedSon]

But my point is this:

 

Lets say your a Mydraal.  Some gleeman thinks he can get in the way of you and your target.  Wouldn't you just stab him with one of your killing steel blades?  I mean really

 

 

Of course I would.  It'd be a costly mistake if that gleeman was Thom Merrlin though.  Old or not he's an accompished acrobat, good with a blade (if a short blade), argueably the craftiest and most clever man alive in his world and loaded with concealed weapons.  Knowing what I know about Thom I'd take him in a fight against almost anyone that can't channel.

[Charlz Guybon]

Or he was just lucky.  Not all swords forged at Tha'kandar carry a taint.

 

Then again, there is that quote "Shadow man steal kills, boy.  It doesn't wound."  Something like that anyway.

Not all Trolloc blades carry a taint, but all Myrddraal blades do, and a worse taint than any Trolloc blade by far. However the taint fades (lol) eventually and the blade must be retained with another human soul. It's possible that Thom was injured by a blade that needed to be retainted.

[Charlz Guybon]

But my point is this:

 

Lets say your a Mydraal.  Some gleeman thinks he can get in the way of you and your target.  Wouldn't you just stab him with one of your killing steel blades?  I mean really

 

Yeah, but the Fade's sword was only half drawn when Thom tackled him to the ground, after which I assume Thom stabbed him like crazy.

[TheRedSon]

Well, if Thom tackled him it's certainly possible that the injury came from something other than the blade.

[Davram]

Ok lets say Thom tackled the fade and stabbed it.  I would just be mad and cut Thom's throat, not leave him be.

[TheRedSon]

Well, if he tackled him before he got his sword out and then stabbed him the fade isn't getting that sword out while Thom's on top of him.  It's not easy to pull a sword out of a sheath when you don't have the full range of motion of your arms.

[Davram]

But eventually the Mydraal (stronger than a human) would push Thom aside drive his sword in him and follow rand

[Guest cwestervelt]

Eye of the World does indicate that Thom caught the Myrdraal completely off guard, and has been mentioned was on it before its sword was out of its scabbard.  Thom's good with those daggers.  It is conceivable that his first strike render the Myrdraal incapable of finishing its draw by getting a tendon.

[Davram]

OK OK WHAT ARE YOU SAYING! A GLEEMAN KILLED A FADE LIKE NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest cwestervelt]

No, not like nothing.  However, there are only two ways Thom could have survived.  One is that he killed the Myrdraal.  The second is that, once tossing Thom of him, they Myrdraal went straight for Rand and Mat.  Since Rand and Mat made it out of Whitebridge, it is safe to say that the Myrdraal didn't simply shrug Thom off.  That leaves Thom killing it.

 

You do not want to underestimate Thom.  This is the man that successfully assassinated a prince regent of Andor and a king of Cairhien.

[Davram]

My Apologies[move][/move]

[Davram]

I was wondering abt this.  You know how Moiraine said Whitebridge would report something if a gleeman died?  Why didn't they say anything about a fade dying...

[Guest cwestervelt]

They were in denial.  Admitting what they saw would mean admitting all the childhood horror stories were true.  Those that even came close to realizing it was a Myrddraal were trying their hardest to forget about it.

[drovja]

Doesn't Thom state somewhere that the Myrdraal wasn't all that interested in him?  To the effect of: Once the Myrdraal got Thom off of itself, it didn't pursue him any further.

[dmanmiller34]

Doesn't Thom state somewhere that the Myrdraal wasn't all that interested in him?  To the effect of: Once the Myrdraal got Thom off of itself, it didn't pursue him any further.

 

I belive this to be true. The Mydraal was sent after Rand and Mat and them alone. Wasn't it trying to stay incospicuious in the first place? It saw its quarry flee and like the hunter it persued them. In reguards to his injury Maybe he cut himself. We all know how many knives he keeps about himself. He has them in his boots. Maybe one came loose in the wrestling match and cut himself. :-\

 

I also belive that his best knives could have been modified some how by his nephew or created by his nephew before he was Gentled. Who knows? He could have been a skilled knive smith and since he didn't know how to channel propery subconciuosly power wrought them. 

[GrandpaG]

Concerning Thom's younger years, Moraine knew of his Game of Houses abilities.  I got the idea she was talking about the pre-Morgase years?  He had operated under the guise of bard before Elayne's time in service to Morgase's house, I believe.

 

Is it possible that Thom has connections with the shadow?  As much as any other randlander...nobody is born immune to it's seductiveness.  I personally hope that he is not a darkfriend, but nothing in this series totally shocks me any more.

 

How did he get away?  We won't find out for sure until RJ is ready to tell us.  At first, I assumed that Thom was recognized by the halfman as being a darkfriend and was therefore allowed to survive.  I now lean toward the "get out of my way old man...SMACK!" idea.  Thom gave the boys just enough time to slip free.  Plus, a double dose of ta'varen luck helped some.

[schneb]

Doesn't Thom state somewhere that the Myrdraal wasn't all that interested in him?  To the effect of: Once the Myrdraal got Thom off of itself, it didn't pursue him any further.

 

I belive this to be true. The Mydraal was sent after Rand and Mat and them alone. Wasn't it trying to stay incospicuious in the first place? It saw its quarry flee and like the hunter it persued them. In reguards to his injury Maybe he cut himself. We all know how many knives he keeps about himself. He has them in his boots. Maybe one came loose in the wrestling match and cut himself. :-\

 

I also belive that his best knives could have been modified some how by his nephew or created by his nephew before he was Gentled. Who knows? He could have been a skilled knive smith and since he didn't know how to channel propery subconciuosly power wrought them. 

 

I always pictured Thom's injury as more of something along the lines of a torn ACL or ruptured meniscus.  An injury not cause by a weapon, but rather by being manhandled by a Fade.  It seems to fit more in my mind, as these types of injuries would produce the stiffness and the limp more readily than an actual cut wound which would be more likely to actually sever a tendon and render Thom unable to walk completely.

 

As to the weapons, if the were somehow power enhanced yet not power wrought, the more likely candidate to have done it would be Rand.  We know that he had already begun channeling subconsciously and he would have strongly wanted Thom to not get killed by the Fetch.  The only drawback to this theory is that we don't see a channeling sickness in Rand later that can be specifically tied to this incident.  Thom's nephew was already dead by the time Thom got around to trying to help him.  It is doubtful anything of his passed on the Thom.

[Luckers]

That part just bugs me.  Is Thom a darkfriend or what, i mean how else could he have survived it doesn't make sense.

 

We were supposed to question this is book one... Lan's comments about him not being seen in the fighting at Emmond's Field and all that. But it was just a red herring to lead us away from Fain. Thom is no darkfriend.

 

As for the injury being caused by something else, it was not. At DragonCon RJ said that he knew why Thom survived the injury from the blabe, but would not explain why. From the blade. Of course, that could just mean that the Fade got one of Thom's knives and stabbed him with it, and that might even be why the Myrdraal left it at that. If he had been disarmed and held only a knife aganst a man with reflexes as fast as Thom's, he might well have concluded the fight not worth it.

 

Although, there is still that blue flash to be concidered, which does suggest the Myrdraal did get its sword out in the end, and was using it.

[Charlz Guybon]

Speaking of Myrddraal, when do we explicitly learn that they can link with Trollocs to control them. I'm rereading Eye of the World, and we see the Fist of Trollocs die when Lan kills the Fade before they get to Aridhol, but it isn't spelled out there why.

 

Also, did anyone have a hard time getting on this site yesterday?