[Regimental Book Discussion] Mat's Best Lieutenant/Sidekick

[Nikonis]

This discussion covers all books through The Towers of Midnight. Do NOT post anything from AMoL!

You have been warned!!!

 

As it is the books that brought us here and it shall be the books that keep us here! This is the reason we participate in monthly regimental book discussions. Each month, one of the regiments will host a discussion based on the books and the Band of the Red Hand. However, every fourth month, a member of the Senior Staff will begin a discussion on the main Band boards which will encompass either a new topic or a review of the three topics discussed by each regiment. These discussions can concentrate solely on Mat, the other characters that we meet through the Band of the Red Hand, or other battle like circumstances that have effected the Band. your discussion must must have a connection to the Band of the Red Hand in order to be considered a valid Regimental Book Discussion.

Rules:
-In order to gain points in these discussions, you must post at least three thoughtful posts during the month (considered to be the 1st - 25th of each month. You can earn a maximum of 25 points per month by participating in these discussions. 
-Each post can receive up to five points, depending on complexity, thoughtfulness and accuracy, for a maximum of 25 points.
-Points will be awarded by the C-G hosting the regiment with the aid of the MG/UC.
-The discussion must involve the Band of the Red Hand in the Books or be connected to the Band of the Red Hand.

[Nikonis]

I hope to edit this post and add a quote or two from each character sometime this morning however I also wanted to post this for those of you who want to begin discussion in the meantime.

 

At the time "Knife of Dreams" was released the Band of the Red Hand was already a force to be reckoned with. It consisted of six banners of horse, 9,000 riders, and five banners of foot, 15,000 footmen.  They also had the crossbowman but those numbers were counted along with the banners of foot. That adds up to 24,000 fighting men, not including the cooks, blacksmiths, wagon drivers etc... This number is almost impossible to immagine and brings us to the question for this months discussion. We all know that Mat is pure awesomeness and his leadership is unmatched due to all those memories But which one of his followers was the most crucial and important piece to the puzzle which makes them worthy of being named the best sidekick of the band? Only you can decide!

 

Daerid
Daerid was born in Cairhien around fifteen years prior to Talmanes. He has been an infantry soldier all his life. Because he was a commoner his rank in the bairhienin army was based solely on merit, still he would never live to lead because of his commoner blood. When Mat first met him he was in charge of an infantry unit. He helped fight the Aiel that tried to assassinate Mat and later rose to command the infantry forces of the Band of the Red Hand. Eventually gaining the rank of Lieutenant-General, third in line to command after Mat Cauthon and Talmanes Delovinde. His high rank in the Band is quite likely to be a motivator to the mass of commoners that make up the Band, for his rank makes it clear that ability is rewarded in the Band, regardless of a man's origins.

The Cairhienin merely nodded.

"I thought that you could. You have seen pikes pushed before, and faced a charge or two, I vow. Talmanes gives praises when there are two moons, yet I heard him say aloud that he would follow wherever you led. Some day I would like to hear your story, Andorman. But you are young – under the Light, I mean no disrespect – and young men have hot blood."

Gorderan
In Ebou Dar he was one of the few Redarms to survive the gholam attack looking for the Bowl of the Winds. He stayed in the Tarasin Palace with the rest of the surviving Redarms until Mat sent him outside the city when escaping with the captive Aes Sedai. He traveled with Mat in Valan Luca's Traveling Show as cover for their escape and was part of the group that chased Renna Emain after she stabbed Egeanin Tamarath and tried to flee to the town of Coramen. When the gholam attempts to flee the Band's camp outside Caemlyn, Gorderan and Fergin tried and cut off its escape and died in the process.

Harnan
Harnan and eleven other Redarms accompany Mat as they leave Salidar for Ebou Dar. After being attacked by a gholam, Harnan was the only surviving Redarm in Ebou Dar. Harnan wemt with Mat to search for Olver, and is still in Ebou Dar when the Seanchan attacked. He later moved into the Tarasin Palace with Mat. and joined Mat's group when they  traveled in Valan Luca's circus as a cover after escaping Ebou Dar. After Renna Emain flees, Harnan kills her with a crossbow bolt just before she reached Coramen.

Lopin
Lopin always complained about Talmanes' servant Nerim. After Nalesean's death, Matrim Cauthon took Lopin and Nerim in as servants. He stayed in the Tarasin Palace with Mat and began to transfer Mat's clothes and money back into the Wandering Woman. Mat sent Lopin and Nerim to collect all the stored money and meet him outside the city when he was carrying out his plan of escaping with the captive Aes Sedai. He traveled with Mat and the others in Valan Luca's Traveling Show as cover for their escape. and was murdered by the gholam that was hunting Mat.

Mandevwin
He has been in the Band since its formation in Cairhien and was is in command of the band when they engaged a Seanchan unit in an ambush, wiping out the whole contingent with barely any casualties. He was also in command of the men when they engages a Seanchan force that was trying to kill Tuon Athaem Kore Paendrag for the one hundred thousand gold crown reward.

Nalesean
Nalesean took charge of the Tairen cavalry at the battle of Cairhien with the Shaido, when the previous commander was killed. Amazed by Mat's battle tactics and luck, Nalesean swore to follow Matt. In the Band, Nalesean was a leader responsible for half of the cavalry. He helped fight the Aiel who tried to assassinate Mat. When Nalesean went with Mat to search for the Bowl of the Winds in Ebou Dar he was killed by a gholam when it ripped his throat out before the bowl could be recovered.

 "There are Aiel coming straight for us, Mat," Nalesean said as Mat raised the raven-marked spear upright. "The Light burn my soul if there's a one less than five thousand." He grinned at that, too. "I don't think they know we're here waiting for them."

Reimon
Reimon joined the Band of the Red Hand and led the Fifth Squadron, also known as "Reimon's Eagles." After the rapid expansion of the Band in Murandy, Reimon now leads a full Banner and was promoted to Banner-General by Mat. When  Reimon and Carlomin refused to listen to the advice of a commoner Mat placed Daerid Ondin above them, saying that they will either take orders from him or go home. He showed great respect for Mat in saying that Mat was only a Lord to them, and that was good enough. He made a raid on a Seanchan supply camp defended by Altaran conscripts in order to procure much needed supplies for the Band.

Talmanes
Talmanes is a Cairhienin noble and a senior officer of the Band of the Red Hand. Talmanes' men are the First Banner of Horse and call themselves Talmanes' Thunderbolts. Talmanes is considered to be second in command to Matrim Cauthon; as such, Talmanes would assume command of the Band in the event of Mat's incapacitation or death.

"The Tairens are no friends of mine. And Daerid is... useful. Certainly not a friend." Dry chuckles ran through the onlooking lords at the suggestion. "But I will lead one half, if you lead the other."

 

Vanin
Vanin was a thief who became a member of the Band of the Red Hand when he was sought out, among others, on the orders of Mat Cauthon when he was looking to build a group of scouts composed of men well used to stealthing. Among this group of men Vanin was often considered the best. This was proven when he snuck past a line of Warders guarding passage to and from Salidar, not once but twice, without being seen. He traveled with Mat and some of the Redarms to Ebou Dar. He left with the rest of the group to retrieve the Bowl of the Winds and was attacked then injused by a gholam but, rather than worry about himself, was more worried about how Elayne was. He stayed in the Tarasin Palace with the rest of the surviving Redarms and left Ebou Dar with Mat and the rest of the Redarms then joins Valan Luca's Traveling Show as cover for their escape. He tracks down Renna Emain after she stabs Egeanin Tamarath and tries to flee to the town of Coramen. After leaving Luca's show he leads Mat and the others to a smuggler's pass in the Damona Mountains and finds Talmanes Delovinde and some of the Band in the area then brings them back to Mat's camp. He was used as bait, to get the Seanchan to chase him, when Mat sprung the ambush that wiped out almost the whole contingent. When Furyk Karede arrived in the Band's camp to escort Tuon back to Ebou Dar, Vanin rides in with the news of a Seanchan force approaching, all looking for the reward of one hundred thousand gold crowns for killing Tuon. After Tuon left, he continued to lead the company through Altara.

"Vanin rode slumped like a sack of suet as always, but he had a sharp eye out."

[Nikonis]

Talmanes was there from before the Band was founded up through the epilogue of book 13, and presumably in book 14 which we can not include in this discussion, when he read Mat's letter and called for everyone in the band to prepare for battle in Caemlyn which he understood would likely be under attack. From the very beginning Talmanes was a leader who saw not only the luck that Mat had but also the cunning battle commander his memories allowed him to be. Because of this he owed Mat his life and swore to follow him by pledging his personal loyalty and swearing Mat as his commander and Lord (One could say that by saying this he was the first to coin the term Lord Mat). Even prior to his promotion to Leutenant General, Talmanes had been left in charge of the Band in Mat's Absence at least once. After he and some band members were brought to Mat's location in the Smugglers Pass he informed Mat of the lucrative deal with King Roedran and how large the Band has become and then Mat promotes him to Lieutenant-General making him the second of command in The Band and the person who would take over if something happened to him. He rode with Mat into Caemlyn for their meeting with Elayne and was part of the group that protected Mat as he chased the gholam through Caemlyn (During which he scared off a group of thugs and assassins who tried to attack Mat.) Because of all these reasons and my own personal opinions on the character I believe he deserves the vote for best Lieutenant and sidekick (Though I personally feel sidekick is kind of demeaning to the character himself).

[BFG]

Lopin - he needs the boost, first his master was killed by the gholam then he is.  It's about time something good happened to him

[Davrick]

My vote goes to Talmanes.  I also like Vanin.

[dicetosser1]

I went to Harnan   we saw a fair bit of him. Talmanes at the beginning was quiet   the story was more dominated by nalsean. Once he died  we didnt see talmanes for a while. When we did he was good  but Harnan was always there and always had mats back

[F Horn of Valere]

To add to the theme... my order would go:

 

1. Talmanes

2. Vanin

 

1. Talmanes is without a doubt the best lieutenant and sidekick, even when separating the two.

 

As a lieutenant, he led the Band during all of Mat's adventures in Ebou Dar and after. By the end of Towers of Midnight, he is poised to meet the biggest challenge of the Band yet, with the invasion of Caemlyn. (99% sure this is in the epilogue, but considering it is also in the book jacket for AMoL, on the extreme chance I am wrong, it is not really a spoiler.) The ordeals he had to go through proved his worth as a lieutenant to the greatest general Randland has ever known.

 

As a sidekick, he is hilarious! His sense of humor is one of my favorite parts of the Sanderson volumes, especially because Mat is on to his extremely dry sense of humor. They have excellent chemistry, both as people, and as characters. If I were in the Band, I would always look forward to any duty putting me within earshot of the two, especially if Mat is having woman problems. Furthermore, he is the perfect contrast for Rand-- he is nobility, and a loyal servant of a man who, while technically now a prince, is as anti-nobility as you can get.

 

2. Vanin brings a different skill set to the table, which is why I think he is inferior to Talmanes, at least in the confines of the question. He is certainly fit to be a lieutenant, but not a commander of a large army, but rather he is better the role of a "soldier's soldier," doing well in interacting with the troops on a personal level, to include mat-like legends that circle about him due to his uncanny horse thievery skills. As a side kick, he has been known to leave Mat flabbergasted, enhancing that role. But he is not a soldier, as much as someone who is pretty good at helping out his cause. He is certainly an inspiration for the troops, but not to the degree that he would need to be if leading the infantry who do not have the luxury of letting a horse carry his extra weight!

[Nikonis]

By the end of Towers of Midnight, he is poised to meet the biggest challenge of the Band yet, with the invasion of Caemlyn. (99% sure this is in the epilogue, but considering it is also in the book jacket for AMoL, on the extreme chance I am wrong, it is not really a spoiler.)

You are correct: The epilogue of book 13, ToM, does have him preparing for the battle after reading the letter left for Mat which Oliver opened. Not going into any details here but you're also correct on it being mentioned in AMoL, though to my recollection it was in the prologue, not the flap... Still okay though since it was in the very last part of ToM first.

 

You also bring some great reasons, some I mentioned but many new ones, on why he deserves the awarded title to light.

[Direwolf Jon]

I went with Talmanes.  At first I really didn't care for him, but as I kept going through the books he just sort of grew on me a bit. Nealsean, as mentioned above by Dice, seemed to be the one mentioned the most.  But Talmanes gets to the point where he is there for Mat at the points he is needed to be there for and being there during the gholam attack and helping Mat be protected.  Pretty much all the reasons that I like Talmanes have already been mentioned above.  

[F Horn of Valere]

I should add that Nealsean is great as well... but while he was at least partially a "yes-man" to Mat, Talmanes actually pushes back, sometimes with sarcasm, other times outright.

[The Bard Babe]

TALMANES!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

That is all.

 

 

 

 

Vanin gets an honourable mention...

[The_Wanderer]

Definitely have to go with Talmanes.

[Nikonis]

So i7 looks as if 7almanes is defina7ely far in the lead. In your opinion, which even7 (Excluding any7hing in AMoL) do you 7hink makes him stand ou7 7he mos7.

[F Horn of Valere]

I think the fact that for the long period that Mat was away, he still managed to hold the Band together, and flourish. Think about it.... Mat was the reason the Band worked so well. Other than his leadership, there was really no rhyme or reason, but Talmanes still managed to keep it together, and in a good way, too.

[NeverTame]

Talmanes Delovinde. He had me at the "hello"... Or in this case, the "I will lead one half, if you lead the other."

[Nikonis]

Alright everyone, the 25th is only three days away so if you haven't voted and posted your feedback please do so soon. For those who voted someone other than Talmanes please voice your opinion as to why they deserve it more.

[Nikonis]

Okay, being the 25th of the month today will be the last day to participate in this month's discussion... Anyone else?

[Nikonis]

Okay, a few days late but the votes were overwhelming in Talmanes' favor!

Thanks to everyone who participated in the discussion for the month of October.