[Advanced] X-Men: Rise of Apocalypse - GAME OVER

[csarmi]

What on earth is the difference in end result for me in you being lynched VS me being lynched? I'd die anyway! So how it would be an advantage to me to get you lynched instead of me, I just don't see it. I have stated who would have been my vengeance kill, if I were to use it, but I'm not planning too.

To be honest, this feigned ignorance/confusion is very scummy.

I'll spell it out for you because you'll just keep on claiming you don't understand.

 

The difference between lynching Mish/Despo is in who gets the gun.

Mish you're stating in your post that you should be given a gun because you, uhm, will swear that you'll use it right, honest. With zero accountability as after the gun's been used cause you'd be dead.

[csarmi]

Also it's very telling how Mish uses the words "what's the difference, I'd die anyway!". Shows that it's about her life, not Team Town.

[hazelkrs1]

 

 

Wow, I'm alive. Didn't expect that when I came home.

 

Those who didn't understand why I suggested a Des-lynch instead of a me-lynch: If you lynched Des, I woyld sacrifice myself to keep him alive, since most seem to think he's town; I would def prefer to just loose one townie instead of potentially three. One townie dead is way better than three. That said, I personally still isn't convinced about Des' alignement, but even if he's mafia, it would have been better that only I died, versus him taking yet another townie down with him.

 

Also Des; AtE? I spoke plainly. Stop using trigger-words simply to paint me as scum. I didn't say "oh no please don't lynch me, buhu". I tried to offer a solution that I think would hurt town less.

 

Of course I don't want to die; I wanna live and play the game, but I was trying to do what felt right for my team.

 

 

 

Csarmi's claim rings true; it seems logical in this game. Lily, the only thing about your views I'd ask you to reveal is if any match up with Csarmi's goldenizer. Especially if you viewed Ishy; it would be good for us to know if he was town or mafia.

 

 

 

Mish, we all get what you're saying. The problem is this is mafia, and you can't be trusted. You say you'd sacrifice to keep me alive, and be all noble and stuff, when obviously me and others just suspect that you're saying that to try and make sure I get lynched instead of you, that way you can get a vengeance kill instead. You went from completely convinced that we were both town, to suggesting that I was the scum one of the pair so should be lynched, to finally saying I should be lynched but that you'd sacrifice to keep me alive instead.

 

Face it, you're trying to do EVERYTHING IN YOUR POWER to keep from getting lynched. Cause you's mafia.

 

What on earth is the difference in end result for me in you being lynched VS me being lynched? I'd die anyway! So how it would be an advantage to me to get you lynched instead of me, I just don't see it. I have stated who would have been my vengeance kill, if I were to use it, but I'm not planning too.

 

And yes, my read on you keep changing, and you know I can never read you. I still don't know; but even if you are mafia, I'll at least save the townie you're planning on vengeance killing.

 

But I'm done arguing with you, because right now it doesn't matter what the heck I say, you are 100% convinced I am mafia, and you've shown quite clearly you have no plans of giving me a chance in showing that I'm not. If you're town, I'm disappointed. If you are mafia, this is a disgusting tactic, and I fully expect an apology after the game is done.  I'm done talking with you about this; I've said what I have to say, we're going in circles and going nowhere because you refuse to give me even the tiniest benefit of a doubt. I accused you earlier of having made up your mind that I was mafia from you got your role PM, and you said that wasn't true, but I don't believe you. And I'm sick of having to defend myself against something that isn't true, and something that whatever I bloody say, you just use it as more proof against me. I'm sick of it. And THAT is an AtE.

 

 

Underlined: If you're mafia then it would be an advantage for me to get lynched instead of you because then you'd get the vengeance kill and could take out another townie. And if you're def not planning on using the vengeance kill, why even say that you already said who you WOULD target?

 

As for the rest, look, demanding an apology after the game is as AtE as it gets. Although I'm fairly convinced you're mafia, yes, I wouldn't say I'm "100%" convinced, and I would still easily change my mind about you if you did try and show your towniness. While reading your posts, I have occassionnally seen things that made me less certain of your scumminess, then have seen other stuff that reaffirmed my suspicions later on.

 

Either way, I haven't in any way carried out any abusive or slanderous attacks against you or anything like that, or have used any tactic or strategy that I would say is unsportsmanlike or outside the spirit of the game. Just because I think you're mafia, and have pushed for your lynch, doesn't mean you have to take it personal.

 

@CS: I never asked for any details about the Vengeance or Sacrifice option. I assumed that with a bastard mod, there wasn't really much point.

[csarmi]

@ Despo: maybe you should. Worst case you get a PAFO. I don't think Verb lies in our pm talks, at least not directly.

 

What puzzles me is that you keep assuming you can choose your avenge targets. Where's the vengeance in killing someone "random" for your lover's death.

[hazelkrs1]

I think you're looking too far into the whole Lover's Vengeance side of it. I don't know if its a kill, or if it can be directed. But Vengeful Killers can choose to kill whoever they want, I assume it would be similar. After all, are you saying that there's never any collateral damage when someone seeks vengeance IRL?

[csarmi]

I'll look up vengeful killers for you on maffiascum in a bit but ad I can recall, they normally can't choose their targets or they can only choose between some select ones (say those on their lynch).

[csarmi]

I'm wrong.

 

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Vengeful_(role)

[Leelou]

Vote Count

 

Krak (4) - Mish, Lenlo, Aemon, Wombat

Lenlo (3) - salami, Des, RTE

Mish (2) - Nyn, Tina

Darthe (1) -  Lily

Salami (1) - Darthe

 

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline 26 hours, 50 mins

[WWWwombat]

unvote

Vote: Lenlo

 

He's been almost as inactive as Krak. I thought he was towntelling early, but his inactivity in the face of pressure is scummy. Some of it could be due to his exams, but he finished those a while ago and hasn't done much since. Also, the faux reread is a pretty big scumtell.

[WWWwombat]

Also, I'm not sure I believe Lily's claim. If Csarmi can target the dead, that implies that "appears as" is more than a simple miller/godfather dynamic. Also, Verbal implying that cop views would be useless in his rules could be an intentional attempt to misdirect if there is no cop. I'd like to see what happens if Csarmi targets Dap or Pralaya.

[csarmi]

Wombat, good thinking. I wanted to ask Verbal what happens when I target a lover, but I never got around to that. I'll probably get PAFO'd, but oh well.

[csarmi]

But from what I've seen so far, there shouldn't be much difference between targeting the dead and alive. I mean, Ishy became just as gold as RTE. Of course we can argue that my action affected him before dying...

[Leelou]

Vote Count

 

Lenlo (4) - salami, Des, RTE, Wombat

Krak (3) - Mish, Lenlo, Aemon

Mish (2) - Nyn, Tina

Darthe (1) -  Lily

Salami (1) - Darthe

 

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline 24 hours, 14 mins

[csarmi]

Wombat, good thinking. I wanted to ask Verbal what happens when I target a lover, but I never got around to that. I'll probably get PAFO'd, but oh well.

I got PAFO'd.

[csarmi]

Claim Summary

 

Claim list. Let me know if anythign is unclear. Also let me know if you think I should add my character name as well.

• I'm a Truthsayer with a very controversial character. Not revealed character name yet.
• My alignment is town and my appearance is town too (will use "appearance" and "appear as" as meaning the same in my claim).
• I target a single player at night and
  • his appearance is adjusted to match their alignment
  • this adjustment is made before any cop or coroner action that night
  • I got PAFO'd whether it would affect both lovers if I target one of them
• I can target dead and living players as well.
• When I asked if people would get notified that their appearance changed, I got a "you'll see" answer.
• I targeted Ishy on N1 & RTE on N2. As their names changed to gold at dawn, I believe gold color shows that for them the alignment=appearance statement is true

My original claim:

 

 

Okay really sorry folks this is so far I can take this.

I don't know what's going on and I just can't take the risk.

 

I'm the Truthsayer. Every night I choose a player and his "appears as" is adjusted to his alignment. You only have to look at the first page to figure out who I targeted the first two nights, but just in case it isn't 100% evident for you, I'll spell it out:

 

I targeted Ishy N1 cause I thought he might be Godfather type.

I targeted RTE N2 cause I thought he might be miller type (since he claimed so).

 

Yes, I can target dead people too.

 

If I target the same person as a doc/coroner, my action gets resolved first (so they'll show their true alignment).

 

This is probably my dead sentence as I'm almost sure I'm the most important town role we got.

 

Now I really must run and can't wait to see how this situation is resolved and I'm pretty sure Des would choose the wrong target, so there.

 

RTE - stop the night or not, your call. I'd rather not, actually.

 

 

My mod talk summary (up to that point).

 

 

 

So my role and conversations with the mod:

 

I'm XXX* the Truthsayer. Taunts about how I have no clue of the importance of my role and that I shouldn't be able to get my point across without getting myself NK'd.

Explains that this is a night action, adjusts "appears as" to the real "alignment+ of the player.

Taunts about how he gave me this role cause he hates me and wanna see me fail. Taunts about how he won't let me win anyway.

Appears as and alignment listed - both town.

 

Pretty std stuff.

 

The thing about not knowing my importance and getting my point across (the wording of it) sounded like some sort of Post Restriction so I asked about that. I also asked if the role was tailored to me.

 

He told me to think about what my role could do (impact the game, help with other roles). He told me that I have no restriction and that he is sure the maffia wouldn't want me alive. Also that my role is more important than most (note: that doesn't mean much by itself, surely more important than vanilla, for instance and usually most are vanilla - probably not this time tho).

 

I asked if people get notified that their "appears as" changed.

 

He said that I'll see (grin). (note: indeed I saw after N1, Ishy's name changed to gold)

 

Then I asked that if someone dies, which would show on them (appearance or alignment).

 

He said he hasn't decided yet. But since that's not a good answer, he'll PAFO.

 

Used my powers on Ishy N1. His name turned gold when the day came.

 

I asked him if I needed to know the source material. Told him that I'd appreciate if he told me the truth there as that could mean reading or not reading a lot of things. He said that I didn't need to know it at all.

 

Started posting a diary to him just for fun. What are my reads, wacky theories, etc. Not much of it.

 

Asked him if I could target dead players (cause we might wanna know what their alignment was and I've been assuming there might be a coroner). He said that I could.

 

I used my powers on RTE N2 (sent it abotu 10 minutes after night fell, I wasn't asleep because I had trouble sleeping the last week due to my constant neck and headaches).

 

Also asked him (the same time) about how the actions are resolved if Me + Cop/Coroner target the same person on a night.

Told him an example if it wasn't clear: how would RTE show on N2 if viewed, would he show his real alignment. He said yes. That sounds convincing even from a bastard mod. Now that I think about, it could also mean that RTE is scum/scum and ofc he would show his real alignment no matter what...). I'll ask him to clarify it, but I don't think he was nitpicking there.

 

And that's all.

 

 

Now I'm going back to sleep.

 

* Though I see no reason to not include my character's name per se, I can't see how that could help town. I can't see how that could hurt either, but I'm usually wary. I can reveal that if you guys believe that it's helpful. What do you think?

 

 

Some fresh mod answers.

 

 

 

I got PAFO'd on what happens if I target a lover.

So Our Lord Mod says he was talking in general terms when answering my question about actions resolve order. In other words, he confirms that my action gets resolved before cop/coroner view.

 

 

[Darthe]

Unvote vote Lenlo

 

At least there's something against him.  Krak seems to just be inactive.  As ever.

[Leelou]

Vote Count

 

Lenlo (5) - salami, Des, RTE, Wombat, Darthe

Krak (3) - Mish, Lenlo, Aemon

Mish (2) - Nyn, Tina

Darthe (1) -  Lily

 

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline 23 hours, 39 mins

[Leelou]

@ Darthe - Deadline 23 hours, 39 mins - means tomorrow. 

[ReleaseTheEvil]

I'm comfortable with the Lenlo vote, but this is a big night for town. Really hope we get this lynch right.

 

Otherwise Krak is almost just as relevant but he has had some "positive" contributions that more town than Lenlo's complete lack thereof. 

 

 

If the Lovers are alive by tomorrow I would like us to get to the bottom of Mish's alignment tonight. Just may be a wasted NA if they get NK'ed (I think they will but Lily + Csarmi are now a bigger problem for the scum team).

 

Thoughts on that?

[Krakalakachkn]

I'm down for a Lenlo lunch, but I'm content not to go L-1 with a day left. Lets see how he posts in the next few hours.

 

 

 

I lurk. I think we get it.

 

 

For what it's worth, my town reads are Des, likely CS, RTE, and likely Tina. Like me I feel that she gets more active past the halfway mark.

 

Not sure about Nyn, Wombat, and Darthe. Len, lily, and Mish are most likely to be mafia. I seem to remember Mish playing in a similar style last time she was mafia and getting flak. I didn't catch it then, but experience is making me look closer.

 

As for Aemon, it's been a good while, so I'll have to go back and read more on him.

[michellem]

Do please tell exactly what game it was Krak.

[Darthe]

@ Darthe - Deadline 23 hours, 39 mins - means tomorrow. 

 

Yes, very good, you get time!

 

I'm down for a Lenlo lunch, but I'm content not to go L-1 with a day left. Lets see how he posts in the next few hours.

 

 

 

I lurk. I think we get it.

 

 

For what it's worth, my town reads are Des, likely CS, RTE, and likely Tina. Like me I feel that she gets more active past the halfway mark.

 

Not sure about Nyn, Wombat, and Darthe. Len, lily, and Mish are most likely to be mafia. I seem to remember Mish playing in a similar style last time she was mafia and getting flak. I didn't catch it then, but experience is making me look closer.

 

As for Aemon, it's been a good while, so I'll have to go back and read more on him.

 

I think I hate you right now.

[Krakalakachkn]

I don't remember exactly. Please feel free to disregard what I said if it helps.

 

 

 

 

I think I hate you right now.

I aim to displease.

[michellem]

Backtracking now... Beautiful.

[csarmi]

For easy reference - the Complete Works of Krak

 

 

• ##3033919 - yo
• ##3034553 - comments on pattern to madness that Verbal isn't very sharp
• ##3035406 - votes Len
• ##3035552 - asks if Leelou can be lynched
• ##3035562 - asks Darthe if he's talking to him
• ##3036043 - Nolder is Nolder, agrees Berf just made up a read on Nolder, tells Desp not to justify his bad scumhunting by Nolder's derailing
• ##3036046 - a single expletive, not sure what it references
• ##3036961 - Nolder's hot, his flip might just mean anything, brilliant
• ##3037486 - insults Despo, agrees with csarmI's point on Despo/Mish (not symmetrical), says he isn't sowing wifom, its already there
• ##3037755 - says he'll be away for until Monday night
• ##3040738 - Start of D3, asks if it was dice claiming "miller type"
• ##3042048 - calls out Mish on arguing for Mish lynch, but not putting her vote there, comments on Nyn's miller breadcrumb
• ##3042052 - asks Lily if she managed to get N2 results
• ##3043032 - calls out Mish on her worries about Krak, doesn't think he overreacted on Des, cryptical comment on lover's quarrel, says we need to decide sometime, csarmi reveal is sudden, calls out csarmi for not having a case
• ##3043051 - stabby reply to Mish (read the sequence for more)
• ##3043845 - Down with Len lynch, but no hurries, agrees he's lurking, gives his reads

 

 

I'm leaning town on him, actually.