[Advanced] X-Men: Rise of Apocalypse - GAME OVER

[Krakalakachkn]

 

So once I saw that I was Lovers with Mish, I at once became aware of the good possibility that Mish was scum (most of the time I see Lovers on DM, they're opposite alignments). Its actually kind of funny, cause between the two of us, Colossus is actually a much better choice for a bad guy out of the Lovers pair than Kitty Pride (Colossus goes against the Xmen at least twice, even tho he's not quite sound of mind either time), but meh I figure with a bastard game, and with character claims allowed, I shouldn't let myself be restricted by flavor or theme.

 

Anyhoo, I knew I had to feel her out, to see if my concerns were on the mark about her being mafia, and needless to say, she has not passed the test well. Won't do a full on case on her yet, but this post was pretty much what convinced me she was scum:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm willing to go either way; both Nolder and Lenlo seems like interesting lynches to me. My gut says Nol over Len, but I'll be around to change my vote if neccessary.

 

 

both "seem like interesting lynches" to her. Incrediscummy. Nudging both trains, and doesn't say why either would actually be a good lynch.

 

Also I'm convinced Krak is scum. Didn't like his response to my fos on him, and this was pretty bad right here:

 

I'm just reading Nolder as Nolder.  I'm not seeing scumminess in his posts as much as his normal meta - disagreeing with the town.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok not going to be here tonight or for deadline, ala the other game, you know the score. I really, really cannot state how much I don't want to vote Verbal.

 

My thought is:

 

He can be voted

He is goading us to vote

He has said there will be dire consequences for said vote.

 

Bastard Mod is not equal to 100% liar Mod. He could be lying about lying and all the little Russian dolls you want to throw down that rabbit hole.

 

We don't know.

 

As it stands, lynching Verbal will make SOMETHING happen, that is more than likely anti-town.

If we lynch a player, it gives us more time to find Gold and put together some clues, and as a bonus we might just lynch mafia.

Continuing advocating a somewhat blind lynch on the Bastard Mod on D1?

 

Not a fan.

 

 

 VOTE NOLDER

 

I did like you early on, but the assurance you seem to be pushing this with troubles me, along with the fact that it's a pro-town move to avoid an anti-town trap.

 

Will check in closer to deadline to see whatup. I won't vote Verbal though. I think a random lynch would be better, quite honestly.

 

Blah blah blah my teammates told me to make something up and vote you.

Mission accomplished.

 

This.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Caught up.

 Unvote, Vote Nolder

 

Obvious scum in my eyes. Has kept town distracted with this talk about lynching Verbal, and keeps slipping in little blurbs about the setup.

 

Slipping in little blurbs?

I've been saying all along I don't really care.

The only time I've engaged in speculation was when conversation called for it due to what other people have been saying.

 

And Des, I don't really see how you can claim that Nolder has distracted the town.  Isn't it our job to ignore any talk that we consider derailing.  Don't use Nolder to justify your lack of scum hunting, then come in towards the end of the day and claim that Nol is scum.  You look bad in this scenario, not him.

 

Justify my lack of scumhunting? Get real brother. I've done WAAAAAY more scumhunting than you have this game, and I never tried to use anyone to justify my "lack" of scumhunting because there is no lack of it buddy.

 

So what happened is that Krak saw that he was on my radar, and panicked and tried to do his best to discredit me. And that's what he came to play with.

 

That's a silly assumption.

 

Also, your claim sounds like BS to me.  I suspect you're trying to play off of the Reverse Doctor role Verb put in his Machine of Souls game.  The problem is, your description doesn't fit imo.

 

The role you described is called Rolestopper.  Why wouldn't Verbal call it that?

 

 

This came right after Wombat just said he thought Nolder was likely town. Saying Nolder was acting anti-town but not necessarily scummy, then immediately coming out to discredit Nol's claim def pings pretty majorly for me.

 

People are voting Nolder mainly because he was trying to lynch verbal.

 

Now, you either believer his claim or not

I, personally, am fine with his claim and he has seemed town to me. If he is indeed town and PR, then there has been a deliberate misdirection from scum from voting verbal - Lenlo, Darthe, Des - are some of the names that pop into the mind. 

 

Given that there are only two options now, I think it is pretty clear

 

vote Lenlo

 

 

First of all, there wasn't ANY "deliberate misdirection" from me. I think it's completely obvious why I and others might be leary of someone suggesting we lynch the mod when there is a warning about it in the freaking OP.

 

Second, reaaaally scummy you trying to use Nol's claim to fos people after the fact, when I voted Nolder before his claim, and obviously being town I have no idea on most other's alignments. I found him to be displaying scummy behavior and I saw a deadline coming up, he seemed like the best option. It's a classic scumtell to use someone's claim to try and discredit people on his lynch who voted before the claim even came out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

People are voting Nolder mainly because he was trying to lynch verbal.

Now, you either believer his claim or not

I, personally, am fine with his claim and he has seemed town to me. If he is indeed town and PR, then there has been a deliberate misdirection from scum from voting verbal - Lenlo, Darthe, Des - are some of the names that pop into the mind.

Given that there are only two options now, I think it is pretty clearvote Lenlo

 

Terrible logic in the first section. Why does Nolder being town mean that scum are necessarily misdirecting away from Verbal?

 

Possible scumslip here? Wombat seemed to know Nolder would flip town before the scene...

 

I thought Nolder was town until he revealed. I still think he might be lazy town so I'm willing to keep him around.

 

 

 

I don't see Nol's actions as anything more than expressing his opinion. I'm voting Lenlo based on the quotes I pulled up earlier. I'll switch to Nol if need be, but I'd rather lynch Lenlo.

 

 

 

Why are 2 people not voting?unvote

Vote: Nolder

 

 

These posts came very close to each other, the last two being consecutive. At the time, the two lynches were very close, and Lily just spoke out against Lenlo. Wombat then immediately switches back to Nol, in what ended up being an important swing vote imo. CS switched to Lenlo right after this as well, so had Wombat stayed both trains would have been exactly even, and essentially would have had the same chance of succeeding.

 

Incidentally, while catching up I noticed a lot of peeps distancing from the Nol lynch as it got closer to the deadline; methinks there was 1 or mebbe even 2 scummers doing so to try and gain some townie cred. RTE did this, as did Ishy and Wombat... and someone else I think. I might go fetch those quotes in a sec.

 

 

 

EPIC eye-roll to Lenlo's late vote post.

 

LAWLZ

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lenlo, that late vote doesn't make you look any better.

 

Not really the most concerning thing for me right now tbh. Rather get some scum.

 

Bleurgh. Awful.

 

Heh. Nolder is pretty hot.

Polaris is a superheroine but at one point is possessed and becomes a villain. Brilliant.

 

 

Another big ping from Krak: he's the first to use the open alignment thing to try and introduce wifom about whether or not Nol was town. Incidentally, Polaris was Magneto's daughter, but I don't see her as being anti-town. Third party, maybe. Just about EVERY Xman or superhero in the xmen universe is mind controlled and goes against the xmen at some point in time. Trying to use that to sow wifom is just plain scummy. Looks like Nol was town after all.

 

I just wiki what I need to.

IIRC she was Havoc's GF, right?

 

 

Havok*

  

 

 

My god you're slipping (not that I'm convinced you ever possessed it in the first place tbh).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also - sorry I'm not skilled enough to do quotes from phone yet - the part where you'd get Mish shot pings. Cause if you're ready to sacrifice, shooting you makes more sense. Not to mention that you're directing town PR there...

This is silly btw. There's no reason for Despo to want to get himself shot over Mish. Either does the trick. Furthermore, Despo knows that if he survived Mish, he'd be dead meat.

Personally, I think they're both town and Des is paranoid.

I think Itchy's point makes sense. If De is willing to sacrifice, then shooting him is just as effective as shooting Mish (as you said). However, if he is scum and lying, the you're wrong and shooting Des is the better option. That way, we don't lose a potential innocent AND scum (Des). However, I wouldn't put it past Verb to have lovers that were both town in a bastard game.

 

 

 

And before Des completely overstates his own "brilliance" and accuses me of brushing off his arguments, let me say that I'll address his points about me (and probably others) when I'm not at work and on this blasted phone. Off the top of my head though, I'll say this: sowing wifom? God you're thick. I couldn't sow any more wifom surrounding Nolder's role than Verb did by not including his alignment. All I did was wiki info on the name we had, Polaris, and share it. If you think that's sowing wifom then I'd be happy to email you a list of universities in your area that have mediocre to decent Agriculture departments so that you may discover a proper definition of sowing. Hell, you might even learn a little about reaping too.

[michellem]

 

 

So you're effectively a Miller. Weren't you afraid of a cop wasting a view on you?

 

I guessed it was the same for a big majority of town to be honest, and I wasn't interested in giving the mafia more information than they needed about it.

That's interesting. I mean the fact that you were making that assumption.

 

 

Really interesting. You're very good at being passive aggresive, or rather, passive sceptical. Or perhaps obtuse on purpose. But fine, I'll spell it out for you.

 

How my PM was laid out made me believe that everyone had the:

"Alignement:

Appears as:"

 

It's just what struck me at first. I've seen enough role pms, and written some myself, to guess what probably everyone has in their PM, and what goes only for me and my role. It was my instict and I trusted it. And then, when you posted about your question to Verb, it made it seem like you had the same, and thus confirmed my inital thought. Now, if there was only 1 town (me) that appeared as mafia, but is town, then why would you would have alignement/appears as bit? If everyone else appeared as what they are, why write it like that?

[csarmi]

Actually, Verb had a PM like that himself (see opening post) and that got me ask him about how coroner would. Pretty obvious stuff.

[dicetosser1]

 sorry daughters been real bad lately  have been up helping with her.

 

must play catch up

[Krakalakachkn]

Just a heads up, I'll be gone tomorrow and most of Monday on a hiking trip, but I should get a chance to post Monday Night.

[hazelkrs1]

Also - sorry I'm not skilled enough to do quotes from phone yet - the part where you'd get Mish shot pings. Cause if you're ready to sacrifice, shooting you makes more sense. Not to mention that you're directing town PR there...

 

Why would shooting me make more sense? Obviously, if Mish dies but I don't, I'll be next to swing. Tbh I don't really care if someone shoots me instead, except for the fact that if she dies, I'm faced with a choice that I can then use to help town before I die as well.

 

And NO. I'm not saying what I could choose between.

 

Ok, so that just happened.

 

Des, my alignement is town, I'll appear as mafia, according to my role PM. I'm only guessing, never seen this before, but I guess it means I'll show as mafia if a cop views me. Sit down honestly and think about this:1.  If we weren't lovers, and you therefore automatically sure that I was mafia from the beginning, would my play so far have you pinged me? 2. Because yes, I noticed from your first post that you had decided that I was mafia, and was seeing tells just because you had decided I was.

 

3. And WHY, if you are town, would you bring this up at NIGHT? Do you want to give the mafia our deaths all wrapped up with a nice bow? Because you know you are giving them a 2 for 1 deal right now, if you are town too that is.  Why on earth would you want to do that to town N1?

 

4. And yes, I thought both len and nol was interesting lynches. They'd both been vocal on each side of the "should we lynch verb or not"-matter, so getting one of their alignements could have been very informative. Not a sure tell of course; misguided or stubborn (guilty as charged) town happens way more often than very vocal mafia. But getting an alignement on one of them would have made it interesting to look at the others that had the same opinion.

 

1. Yes, your play so far would have pinged me either way. You're way too experienced to have come in with that post feigning confusion, acting like you felt like it was your first game. So far there hasn't been much to separate this game from many others, there was no reason for you to act so confused.

 

2. I didn't decide from the start that you were mafia. As I said before, knowing that we were Lovers I knew it was a possibility you were scum. Your play since the start of the game however has convinced me.

 

3. Meh, I knew it was a risk. Decided to go for it anyways. Frankly, I revealed at night to make sure. If were both alive come morning, then in my eyes you are confirmed scum, since the mafia team wouldn't want to pass up a chance to take out two townies at once N1. And sacrificing you to NK me also wouldn't really help the mafia team, since that would still let everyone know my reads were genuine, as well as losing a teammate. Our role isn't important enough for a Doc to protect, aside from the fact they'd have to deal with wifom of who to protect.

 

So yeah, revealing at night was completely premeditated. If I'm wrong and we're both town, then I'm wrong and town loses 2 right off the bat. Doesn't mean it's an insurmountable lead for the scum team, and there can still be info gleaned from our deaths. Really, your mock frustration just does even more to make me feel comfortable about my read on you. I think you're frantic and trying to think of a way to stay alive to help your team.

 

4. Your response here does nothing to assuage my suspicions. Nudging two trains at once with the wording you used was scummy, and your explanation doesn't really do much for me. The "should we lynch verb or not" shouldn't really have been an issue worth arguing for yesterday to begin with, and you seem to want to keep focus on that debate, which will continue to keep town distracted from finding scum.

 

Re cops wasting views, I'm also town who will view as scum.

 

Not sure that says anything about Mish's claim but if she's telling the truth that's two of us already.

 

Def pings for you to try and coattail onto Mish's post and say that you have the same situation. You were already high on my list of suspected scum, this just adds to the evidence.

 

I don't understand the flavor of Kitty being a miller at all. Just more of the bastardness?

 

Yeah I don't get the flavor either. I figured it was cause of the bastardness /shrug

 

If anything, I wanted to believe Mish would be town when I considered flavor. But her play since the game started has done enough to make me put that thought aside.

[hazelkrs1]

What is it with the premature martyr lover play lately? Can't people wait for a solid read instead of one or two pings?

 

It is a solid read fyi, and I waited for more than a couple of pings. Nice mock frustration in this post tho.

[hazelkrs1]

And lastly, @Krak:

 

I counted 5 personal attacks in that last big post of yours. I think you went way too far and I plan on contacting the mod. You shouldn't really ever have to steep to that low level just to try and defend yourself, but it's even worse considering it's coming from you.

 

Say what you want about my intelligence of my skill level at mafia, at least when I sign up for a game I actually contribute, and don't go inactive, leaving my teammates hung out to dry.

 

 

 

 

As for actual gameplay, YES, you WERE sowing wifom. Of COURSE there was inherent wifom already in play because Nolder's alignment wasn't given in the coroner report, but honestly, going by his reaction to his lynch (was telling CS to hammer him even tho there was still time and possible inclination to get Lenlo lynched) I think it's fairly obvious that he was most likely town. You were just trying to plant the first seeds of doubt, to no doubt be used later by your team to try and make us think we had already found most or all of your scum team.

 

ANYONE trying to obfuscate the situation there by trying to drop flavor hints that might indicate a recently deceased person to be possible scum would potentially be suspect. But that, along with your earlier lurking and general unwillingness to help town in the scumhunt (you were still pushing for a Leelou lynch yesterday when it was obvious her lynch wouldn't be happening), and then WILDLY emotional response to my scum read on you, all tells me that you sir, are the scummiest of them all.

[csarmi]

Despo, time and time again I see you arguing on when you're obviously wrong, trying to defend what can't be defended. Not sure why you're doing this but I really do wish that you stop and think in these cases.

 

It makes you look scummy, you see - though I'm starting to think that you're simply unable to let go. I know because I'm like they to an extent myself.

 

Just take this lover shooting. Do you seriously argue that if you were scum lying about this, then it still don't matter that we misshoot or mislynch Mish? Since when do wasted town actions not matter?

[csarmi]

Still @Despo. I read Krak's post as funny. I think you shouldn't get riled up about it.

[csarmi]

With that said, totally agree with the points against Krak.

[hazelkrs1]

A town actions isn't "wasted" if it leads to finding scum dude.

 

And hop down from your high horse, you'll hit your head up there. Although I did get a tickle out of YOU telling me that I argue too long about things

 

But yeah, I'm not obviously wrong here bro.

[csarmi]

A town actions isn't "wasted" if it leads to finding scum dude.

 

And hop down from your high horse, you'll hit your head up there. Although I did get a tickle out of YOU telling me that I argue too long about things

 

But yeah, I'm not obviously wrong here bro.

Yes you are. Using two actions go find a scum (Mish then you) instead of one action (you) is an action wasted pal.

[csarmi]

*to find/remove scum

[hazelkrs1]

*pinching top of my nose*

 

Nope, that still wouldn't be a "wasted" action. Say you get a role claim out of someone. Then someone else cc's. You first lynch the original claimant, then after finding out the cc'er was lying, you lynch them and bag a scum. Was the first lynch a wasted action? NO. It was worth it to test the claims.

 

To put it even simpler: Mafia will NEVER win if they try trading themselves off 1 for 1 with other townies.

 

Ergo, it would be utterly moronic for me to claim that I am Lovers with someone if I am the one that's scum. You think getting one townie lynched and "wasting" an extra action before I got myself lynched would be enough for me as scum? Pffft. Get real.

 

If you seriously try to discredit me one more time, and try to make it seem like I would have revealed in this way as scum, I'll have no choice but to believe that you are in fact scum CSarlami.

[hazelkrs1]

It would also be moronic for me to false claim Lovers, since the other party could deny and if I survived them, I'd be speedlynched.

 

But I'm sure Krak will be in here to say how easy it would be for me to do something moronic, and then CS could have such a chuckle about it and tell me not to get riled up.

[dicetosser1]

What is it with the premature martyr lover play lately? Can't people wait for a solid read instead of one or two pings?

 

OI !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I was RIGHT about that!!!

 

 

 and i had a major role hence the early reveal.

It would also be moronic for me to false claim Lovers, since the other party could deny and if I survived them, I'd be speedlynched.

 

But I'm sure Krak will be in here to say how easy it would be for me to do something moronic, and then CS could have such a chuckle about it and tell me not to get riled up.

 

 

false claiming lovers would be moronic if u picked a town person. It wouldnt be if it was u and another mafia teammate.

 

It also wouldnt make bad sense for a lowly goon to out the lover pair if he  was in it. The mafia team may be willing to make that trade.

[csarmi]

Despo, dude.

I see where you're coming from but stop arguing nonsense.

 

Yes: using two actions to catch someone when one action would have been enough is a waste.

[csarmi]

I do agree that it'd be moronic to false claim lover but that doesn't invalidate my argument.

[csarmi]

The argument is simple.

 

Despo claims he was lovers with Mish.

He says Mish is scum.

 

Removing Despo is sure to get a scum (if we believe his judgment to be sound) - Despo if he's LLL, Mish if not).

 

Removing Mish gets no scum if Despo is LLL and thus costs an extra action compared to the above.

Removing Mish has the exact same effect if Despo is telling the truth.

[Darthe]

This hurts to watch.  Its like you two don't know how lovers work.  It doesn't matter which is killed, both die.  

 

Thats the point of lovers.

 

Idiocy.

[hazelkrs1]

This hurts to watch. Its like you two don't know how lovers work. It doesn't matter which is killed, both die.

 

Thats the point of lovers.

 

Idiocy.

Thank you!!!!!!

 

CS, you're playing a terrible game, whether you're town or scum.

 

If youre town, you should realize that since Mish already confirmed from her end that were lovers, then there's ZERO difference between lynching her or me. You won't "save an action" by lynching me first.

 

If you're scum, then you've already revealed yourself. I also said recently that if Mish dies first, I will be given a choice. The fact that you are working so hard to get me lynched first instead shows that you apparently know Mish will get a choice as well, and you're trying to salvage this situation for your scumbuddies by getting me killed first.

 

And yeah, I'm def thinking you're scum now btw.

 

Dice, all I gotta say is logic fail bro. Any mafia team that thinks trading one of their teammates for a townie is a good trade is one I hope were up against, cause that is majorly dumb.

[csarmi]

Despo, there is zero difference NOW. But it wasn't true when you revealed and that's what we're arguing about.

 

Darthe - see above.

 

Despo - also you didn't reveal your choice back then. So it had no bearing on the argument. BTW, o didn't reference your choice NOW cause it's your call what you reveal about that and when.

[csarmi]

How the hell am I working hard to get you lynched?

 

For the record, I wouldn't wanna lunch either of you at this point.

[Darthe]

I get your point, if they aren't lovers then omg Des could be a bad guy and then we might need to kill him and it could maybe spare a townie.

 

Cept Mish corroborated the claim.

 

And claiming lover is suicide if you don't  have a lover partner.

 

And it doesn't matter if you kill the town or mafia one, BOTH DIE.