[Advanced] X-Men: Rise of Apocalypse - GAME OVER

[WWWwombat]

One thing Nolder seems to be ignoring in his arguments is that if Verbal is telling the truth about those dire consequences, then lynching him after we've lynched all his Horsemen is the better play as it won't have those consequences. Nolder just assumes that whenever we lynch Verbal, those consequences will strike. That is not necessarily the case given what Verbal has posted in his rules.

[WWWwombat]

Darthe, I have to believe that Verb is lying to the mafia every bit as much as he'll be lying to Town. And if his role PM that he shared is to be believed, why wouldn't he count towards scums numbers? It clearly states that he is mafia.

Because he's not a player and can't vote.

[John E. Kelley]

 

Darthe, I have to believe that Verb is lying to the mafia every bit as much as he'll be lying to Town. And if his role PM that he shared is to be believed, why wouldn't he count towards scums numbers? It clearly states that he is mafia.

Because he's not a player and can't vote.

Is the ability to vote necessary to count towards a teams numbers? For instance, do Tree Stumps count towards Town numbers after they've been killed? I've never modded before, so I'm a little clueless here.

[WWWwombat]

I'm becoming increasingly convinced that we are looking at a Mastermind/Usurper mechanic and that Verbal has to be dead for the Horsemen to win.

[WWWwombat]

Ishy, Verbal's "Role PM" says right in it that he doesn't count for numbers. Stop obfuscating.

[John E. Kelley]

Ishy, Verbal's "Role PM" says right in it that he doesn't count for numbers. Stop obfuscating.

Meh, I only read it once, the first day. Didn't remember that. Let's just kill Len then.

[Nolder]

One thing Nolder seems to be ignoring in his arguments is that if Verbal is telling the truth about those dire consequences, then lynching him after we've lynched all his Horsemen is the better play as it won't have those consequences. Nolder just assumes that whenever we lynch Verbal, those consequences will strike. That is not necessarily the case given what Verbal has posted in his rules.

He can't be telling the truth, otherwise his game would suck.

I mean let's just make up a few "dire consequences" and think about them for a sec.

Let's say he kills a couple townies at random. Or maybe he depowers the entire town. Or maybe he powers up the entire mafia.

Anything that I can imagine would result in severe imbalance. He's not going to make a game that can be tanked on Day 1.

Just like lynching Verbal isn't an auto win. It's just a lynch like any other. It can't be much else.

 

As a side note, if lynching Verbal is a trigger for something when exactly do you think it would kick in if not immediately?

Maybe the following Day at latest?

[csarmi]

Dreamed myself a theory about the dire consequences.

 

Goes like this: When Verbal is lynched, coroner reports (and/or some other useful modly functions) are not given anymore.

 

and now I'm back to sleep

[WWWwombat]

Your imagination is failing you then. I thought of one in 5 seconds.

 

How about if Verbal has one Overriding Governor shot for each Horseman?

[John E. Kelley]

Dreamed myself a theory about the dire consequences.Goes like this: When Verbal is lynched, coroner reports (and/or some other useful modly functions) are not given anymore.and now I'm back to sleep

Killing Verb creates a permanent Janitor effect? Naw, not likely. Plus, Leelou would still be able to act in that capacity.

[WWWwombat]

Logic fail from Ishy. Any specific negative outcome is individually unlikely, but combined, the likelihood of something very bad happening is very high.

[John E. Kelley]

Logic fail from Ishy. Any specific negative outcome is individually unlikely, but combined, the likelihood of something very bad happening is very high.

Not really, some scenarios are more likely than others. I fully expect some type of negative outcome, but a permanent Janitor effect? No way.

[WWWwombat]

Why not? It's a bastard game. You have no idea what's in it.

[Verbal32]

Vote Count

Verbal (4) - Salami, Nolder, Dap, Pralaya
Lenlo (3) - RTE, Ishy, Krak
Salami (2) - Wombat, Nyn
Nolder (2) - Darthe, Mish
RTE (1) - Des
Darthe (1) - Lily
Lily (1) - Tina

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.
 

[WWWwombat]

Also, can we lynch Salami already? He's arguing against the Verbal lynch but still voting him. Dude can't even keep track of his "pro-town" agenda.

[John E. Kelley]

What time is the deadline tomorrow?

[Leelou]

5 pm

[John E. Kelley]

5 pm

Damn, I won't be able to be around then. That's when I get off of work.

[Darthe]

Hey, here's a crazy thought. Verb initiLly designs the game with an underutelized mafia built into it or a chaos factor (easy enoigh for a mod to do). You kill verb, it adds to mafia or triggers that factor. Thus the mafia is in balance either way but now has more tools in their belt and/or the game becomes that much harder for us to figure out and thus succeed in.

[Lenlo]

 

 

 

We also know Verbal is WIFOMing about the utility of his lynch. Personally, I think it would help the mafia. Apocalypse is a tough mofo, Verb seems to be goading us into lynching him in his rules, and I doubt he would have made his bastard setup easily breakable by a D1 modlynch.

You said it in a much shorter and better way than me.

 

 

We also know Verbal is WIFOMing about the utility of his lynch. Personally, I think it would help the mafia. Apocalypse is a tough mofo, Verb seems to be goading us into lynching him in his rules, and I doubt he would have made his bastard setup easily breakable by a D1 modlynch.

I'm not expecting to break the game. I think it will have no effect besides maybe -1 mafia.

Or if it does it'll be an effect which puts the game more into balance not less.

 

Then you are senile or naive. 

 

Think about it. If a player is doing everything they can, goading you and poking at you and generally being scummy on purpose do you lynch them or do you go against what they want and not lynch them? What would you automatically think if a player did that? Jester? Its probably not a good idea to give Verbal what he wants this early in the game.

 

And now he thinks Verb is jestering us? That's a reach. 

 

 

 

Nonononono, you misunderstood. I was using the jester as an example of a player role that wants you to lynch them and it helping them. Im not saying Verb is a jester only that lynching him right now will most likely not help us.

 

 

Ishy, Verbal's "Role PM" says right in it that he doesn't count for numbers. Stop obfuscating.

Meh, I only read it once, the first day. Didn't remember that. Let's just kill Len then.

 

D: </3

[Nolder]

Your imagination is failing you then. I thought of one in 5 seconds.

 

How about if Verbal has one Overriding Governor shot for each Horseman?

That's pretty OP and would be unfun since voting/lynching is so fundamental to the game for town.

It's the only power they are ever guaranteed so to mess with it that heavy is just lame.

 

I think people get confused about bastard games. When it's unintentional what we mean is the game was unbalanced in some way or the mod involved themselves where they shouldn't like giving a player advice on who to target. When a game is described as "bastard" from the get go it's not meant to be some murder fun house where the mod just mindf***s everyone for their pleasure like a Saw movie. It means they twisted some facets of the game that are usually taken for granted. A 100% true role PM for example (ie a cop can't trust their sanity even if the mod tells them they are sane). The game is still winnable for both sides and should be more or less fair. You and others are putting way too much stock into what Verbal said about "dire consequences". Even if he wasn't lying the effect should be minimal.

[Darthe]

Any unknown effect is a problem.  Doubly so at the cost of our first day's lynch and subsequent info.  Triply when we anticipate the effect likely adding difficulty to the game for the town.

 

This is not an argument that can logically be made from the towns side.  

[Lenlo]

 

Your imagination is failing you then. I thought of one in 5 seconds.

 

How about if Verbal has one Overriding Governor shot for each Horseman?

That's pretty OP and would be unfun since voting/lynching is so fundamental to the game for town.

It's the only power they are ever guaranteed so to mess with it that heavy is just lame.

 

I think people get confused about bastard games. When it's unintentional what we mean is the game was unbalanced in some way or the mod involved themselves where they shouldn't like giving a player advice on who to target. When a game is described as "bastard" from the get go it's not meant to be some murder fun house where the mod just mindf***s everyone for their pleasure like a Saw movie. It means they twisted some facets of the game that are usually taken for granted. A 100% true role PM for example (ie a cop can't trust their sanity even if the mod tells them they are sane). The game is still winnable for both sides and should be more or less fair. You and others are putting way too much stock into what Verbal said about "dire consequences". Even if he wasn't lying the effect should be minimal.

 

Personally I think your underestimating his evil. I dont think we should lynch him D1 because I dont want to test anything, but if everyone else wants to go ahead. It will be interesting to see just how much he was telling the truth anyways.

[WWWwombat]

 

 

Your imagination is failing you then. I thought of one in 5 seconds.

 

How about if Verbal has one Overriding Governor shot for each Horseman?

That's pretty OP and would be unfun since voting/lynching is so fundamental to the game for town.

It's the only power they are ever guaranteed so to mess with it that heavy is just lame.

 

I think people get confused about bastard games. When it's unintentional what we mean is the game was unbalanced in some way or the mod involved themselves where they shouldn't like giving a player advice on who to target. When a game is described as "bastard" from the get go it's not meant to be some murder fun house where the mod just mindf***s everyone for their pleasure like a Saw movie. It means they twisted some facets of the game that are usually taken for granted. A 100% true role PM for example (ie a cop can't trust their sanity even if the mod tells them they are sane). The game is still winnable for both sides and should be more or less fair. You and others are putting way too much stock into what Verbal said about "dire consequences". Even if he wasn't lying the effect should be minimal.

You have no idea what you're talking about. I've played in one of Verbal's bastard games. It was like a Saw movie except Verbal kept bringing us back from the dead to torture us and kill us again.

[dapianoplay3r]

My reason for wanting to lynch verb is I think it will remove him from being an influence.

To explain. I think it would stop him "barstarding" anymore things, such as adding fake roles, scenarios, and the like. I think it will leave all current barstard things and inbuilt things in play, but I thought it would take him out of being an active influence on the game and turn him into the traditional mod. A facilitator.

 

I've always just known that in barstard games you vote the mod to check, then you lynch the mod