A Song of Fire & Ice Book Discussion Thread (Up To Dance With Dragons)

[Guest Majsju]

More like Mike than make, but how much like Mike depends on your accent;)

 

<What's the fastest way to make a Swede and a Norwegian fight side-by-side?" "Put them in Denmark.>

 

You know, I'm from the part of Sweden that would side with the Danes if that ever happened :D

 

<(..."i" before "e" except after "c"?....)>

 

Huh?

[Asgard Thorin]

"When the sound is long e it is i before e except after c. Exceptions: neither leisure foreigner seized either of the weird heights."

 

Of course, this poem may only apply to the American dialect, but that is the mnemonic poem I was taught.

I also noted, in my passionate but sporadic language studies, that the i before e part also seems to apply to German. I don't think the except after c part does though. The few examples I can think of are stein, meister, Schneider and Schniedermann.

I hope the jokes weren't too bad. And as far as fighting with the Danes, I know what you mean: my great-grandfather was a Swede, and my great-grandmother was a Norwegian. I feel like fighting myself all the time! :) Family reunions can be very interesting! "If you have ten Danes, ten Swedes, and ten Norwegians, what do you have?" "A fight." "If you have them in the United States, what do you have?" "A fight or a family reunion-sometimes both!" :roll: :lol:

[Asgard Thorin]

Oh, Majsju, what's the egg all about? The one that says it will hatch on the fifth of June?

[Guest Majsju]

Click it and find out. Or as they say around here, RAFO

[Asgard Thorin]

RIAFO???? Not you too!!!!!!!!! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhh!

 

By the way, were the jokes all bad to you? That is, are they only sumthin' that Scandinacvian Americans appreciate or'd'you like 'em, too?

[Guest Karana Majin]

Ok, stop hijacking threads devoted to the master! Time to breathe some new life into this post...

 

New topics to discuss.

 

What does Bran need to learn? How will he fly?

 

What will happen with Samwell? Where will he end up? Will he meet back up with his father?

 

Why were none of the regions that Brienne visited on the map, AT ALL? To the point where I couldn't even figure what part of the continent she was on.

 

Most people have read the preview chapter with Dany and the dragons. What's next? What will Dany do?

 

How do we feel about Jon Snow? Has he gotten cold and distant? (Or turning into a true Stark?) It had gotten so bad Sam thought he might have allowed them to sacrifice the baby...

 

And anything else.

[Guest Majsju]

Bran flying...Hmmm, what kind of flying creature big enough to carry a human have we seen...

 

I think Bran is destined to be one of the dragon-riders.

 

Samwell...No idea.

Breanne and the map...Maybe Martin wants it a bit shrouded in mystery. I can't really see the reason why though.

 

Dany, it's about time that she starts moving west. I want to see her head to the north and hook up with Jon Snow, and find Bran, who could then become the first dragon-rider. The dragons are already big enough to carry him, and he should be able to communicate with them.

 

The easiest way would be to have Dany do that, and buold an alliance to take the rest of the land. And after that turn the attention to the threat from the north. But taking the easiest way is just not Martin, so I have no idea.

 

Jon Snow, I think he's really starting to feel his duty pull at him, which makes him appear cold and distant. But I don't think he's that far gone. Yet.

[Lefty]

Just thought I would share this with you folks since you seem to craving theories and the like, try this site : http://asoiaf.westeros.org/

 

Its pretty much the forums for the BWB, George' rabid fanbase and that is where I went in 2000 upon reading the books...and ironically the end of my days at DM.

 

You'll also find a ton of GRRM collectable stuff there.

 

Edited to add: Be careful though, RJ is hated quite a bit there.

[Guest Karana Majin]

I can't go there. I lurked there for a long time and the forums updated SO fast (compared to here) that if I didn't check every couple hours, the threads were already off the first page. It was too overwhelming. And then gods forbid you bring up something that they think has already been "settled". (Much like some threads here)

[Jhaenara]

^^^

 

I just checked that site out and I agree... lol. There's some good stuff, etc, but yeah, some of em get a little uppity about bringing up certain theories... lol.

[Kadere]

THERE'S A NEW SAMPLE CHAPTER UP ON GRRM'S WEBSITE!!!!! IT'S TYRION!!!! WOOT!!!!!

[Dias]

I'm trying so hard not to look at these sample chapters.... must.... resist!

[Guest Majsju]

Well, that's about bloody time, been waiting for Ages for a new sample.

[Dias]

*laughs* Do we really need samples? We've been through, what 3,000 pages of A Song of Ice and Fire? I think we've got an idea of what it's like by now...

 

Why not wait ages for the book, instead of waiting ages for sample chapters? Heheh.

[Asgard Thorin]

Hallelujah!!!!!!!!! The crowd goes wild!!!!!!!!!

(A massive roar erupts; fireworks, and flags waving vigorously, almost as if they themselves were alive)

[Kalak]

I was reading through a Feast For Crows again yesterday and I came across the prophecy of cersi being killed by the younger brother and that the young queen will take all from her

 

I see that Cersi misinterperted it

 

the younger brother is not Tyrion it is the youngest Kettleblack who gets her imprisioned

 

and the queen isnt Magery*sp* its Danys but this is what I think of this prophecy

[Red2111]

digging this up because i'm almost done with ASoF&I and feel the desire to discuss!!

 

Fav Characters -

 

Arya - i've like dher since GoT honestly. i can relate to her character the most, having been a Tom Boy most of my life. she is one of my fav characters and even though she seems to have lost her way (get to Jon woman ... get to Jon!!) i still find myself liking her

 

Jon - is another character i liked from GoT. if he did switch Gilly's babe, i can understand why he did it. it's callous yes, but it's for the greater good. kinda like how the Onion Knight sent off Edric even thoguh he knew it would most likely mean his head. this is the only character thats gotten me to cry (aside from Ed's death and when Bran fell), once when he had to kill his fellow brother to save his own life, and the other cause of Yigitte's death.

 

Tyrion - i liked him from GoT as well. his humor and smarts make him lovable, and i like him even though he's really an anti-hero. he's actually a good guy deep down, you can see that for how he treated Sansa the entire time he was in Kings Landing. i was happy to see him kill Tywin, but wished him and Jamie would come back to speaking terms.

 

Jamie - at first i didn't like him. but once i got to know him, he grew on me. he's an anti-hero, and like Tyrion he's a good guy deep down. saving Bernie twice proved that. it's Cersies fault for everything thats happened to Jamie. She's the reason why he took the White and led to him becoming Kingslayer. She's the reason he threw Bran off the tower. She's even the reason he lost his hand, cause if she hadn't killed Robert right then the war wouldn't have broken out. if Cersie hadn't seduced Jamie that first time, everything would be fine.

 

Bernie - i liked her when i first met her as well. i like her character over all and even more so once she was developed. i can relate to her in a way, having been the center for a cruel jape like she was when they guys were "courting" her when she first went into Renly's court. i don't think she's dead though, and i am hoping for her and Jamie to gt together *grins* they'd make a great couple. i mean come on, he gave her his sword *wink, wink, nudge, nudge*

 

Sam - he's grown on me. i think of him like Neville from Harry Potter. i really hope that him and Jon can stay friends though. soemtimes i just want to shake the crap outta him thoguh lol

 

Asha - i liked her when i first met her as well. her humor and confidence are great; she seems like a villan but one that i can like. i see her as a Voldemort or like Zuko's sister in Air Bender.

 

The Hound - at first i didn't like him, but most of the reason why i didn't like him was because of Joff. he's refusal to smack Sansa around and his actual care for her tell me he's actually a good guy deep down. yet another likable anti-hero. even his smacking Ayra in the head i didn't mind, because really he did it to save her (as well as himself since he woudla chased after her into the castle). i'm unsure if he's dead, or its just a perosn who stole his armor and is mascardaing as him. i'd like to think he was resurected like Cat, but i can't see Berlic letting Sandor join him or even save him.

 

Davos - i liked the Onion Knight the first time i saw him. his ability to read people and tell the truth even when he knows it will mean his death, as well as his loalty are things to be admired. and i don't think he's been beheaded either, i think it was just the lord pulling the wool over Cersie's eyes to get his son back.

 

Danny - part of me likes her, but the other part doesnt. i like her for the most part, but there is something not setting right with me about her character. i really like Drogon though i think most of it has to do with her treatment of Mormont.

 

Gendry - i agree, he reminded me of Perrin as well. i'd love to see him and Arya get together. i hope he comes back into play.

 

The King Beyond the Wall - barely got to meet him, but what i've heard of him and saw of him, i liked. to bad he's slated to be killed huh?

 

 

Hated Characters

well the characters i disliked most are dead. Tywin, The Mountain, Joff, Visery's (Danny's bro), the Goat and his followers, Lysa. (i absolutley LOVE the way he kills off the characters everyone hates gives you a great sense of satisfaction to knwo that while the good guys might be killed, the bad guys suffer & are humiliated in theirs )

 

Cersie - is one of the characters i just can't stand. i look forward to her being broken down off her little pedistal and flogged in public. i do hope the Jamie's the one to kill her; in fact with Jamie making referrances to her being like the Mad King, i'm even more sure it's him. plus it's a good blow to her character and the only thing that woudl really strike her to her core.

 

Littlefinger - is the other character i hate most. he's disgusting! you know what his plans are concerning Sansa, you knew that back in GoT's. and for what eh's doing to her, i just can stand him. i wish Shagga woudl get ahold of him, cut off his mannhood and make him choke on it. (i'm 500 pages into Feast for Crows rigth now)

 

Sansa - i started off not liking her but having hope she would change. yet she failed to do so. she' puts her trust in the wrong people and doesn't learn her lesson AT ALL! she disgraced her family and thinks much to highly of herself, not to mention she lacks a back bone to stand up for her own. (she reminds me a Percy from Harry Potter, alot. and i can't stand percy either) i knew Little Finger would end up with her eventually, but i thought it woudl be after Joff raped her and got tired of her. truthfully, i saw her fated for one of littlefingers Brothels; i'm glad it didn't happen, but her fate now doesn't seem any better truthfully.

 

Theon - is just as bad as Joff was honestly. i dont think he's dead, and i think Bolton's Bastard didn't flay him either. i hope Asha kills him if he is still alive, give him to the Drowned God for good.

 

Stannis - i have to agree, i dislike him for the same reasons i dislike Galad. but i also pitty Stannis too.

 

Melissandre - something about her doesn't sit right. i can't put my finger on it, but i think she's bad trouble.

 

Bran - i started off really liking his character, but now i've grown to not only dislike his attitude but also him in general. hopefully he will change back to normal. i understand becommign a cripple will sour a persons attitude, and i tend to forget he is only 9; but dude, grow up.

 

Loras - he puts on a front too much. again, there is something that doesn't set well with him to me. he's the other character i wouldn't mind being the one to kill Cersie

 

Cat - i've grown to dislike her character. from her treatement of Jon (don't hold what the father did agaisnt the child) to her releasing Jamie and her total attitude. btw we did get conformation on her being dead from Ayra. Ayra had a wolf dream and Nymeria found cats body dead in the river near the Freys Castle.

 

the Spider - i'd love to know where he's at. i want to like him, but i just can't build enough trust in him to like him.

 

 

 

okay so other things to discuss

 

Prince that was promised - i think it's the boy Gilly has (the sone of the King Beyond the Wall). i can't remember the prophecy around tPtwP, but this is my gut reaction to it.

 

 

Jon - i totally didn't pick up on that Jon might not be Ned's son. the R&L theory is interesting and it does explain the dieing promise and Neds over protectiveness toward Jon. the semi-hiding him from Robert during the feast, the gruff attitude toward Cat whenever she asked about Jon's mom. but at the same time, what about the dire wolves? they were from the same litter, menaing that all the pups have one parent in common. and even in Riverrun, Jamie hinted at knowing something about Ed's lover (at which point Cat smacked him not that he didn't diserve it, but i really woulda liked him to finish the sentence ya know)

 

and Ed has lied before to protect his kin. before Joff took his head he lied about Joff being the rightful king to protect Sansa & Ayra.

 

 

Cold Hands - i have thought for a while that this is Ben Stark. you can tell he was a Brother of the Nights Watch by the clothing he's wearing; and you can also tell he's an Other by the description of his hands. i think Ben was able to keep his wits about him after being turned into an Other due to the old blood of the Starks running in his veins. just like the stark blood is what allows Bran and his kin to use the Wierwood & have the wolf dreams.

 

 

Jaqen - i agree he was the unknown Alchemist in Oldtown and assumed Pate's identity. it is interesting though if he and Syrio(sp) were one in the same.

 

 

Renly - i didn't get the feeling that he was gay or that him and Loras had a thing going on. i did find Loras's reaction to Renly's death to be a bit over dramatic, but serisously didn't get the gay vibe. espeially with all the talk of tasting peaches

 

 

two questions i have are What's become of Rickon? and Will Nymeria & Ayra ever reunite? if their answered in Feast of Crows, thats cool, liek i said i'm only 500 pages in and alot can happen in the rest of the book.

[hotpocket2006]

Wow this is an old thread!

 

Characters I like

 

Dany- I lurv her. She's so strong and just an all around BAMF. I love that just because life has thrown her lots of curveballs that she hasn't given up. but I agree with you Red, I think it was a huge mistake what she did to Jorah and I think in the future she will live to regret it.

Jon- I also love him. I'm starting to believe that he will ultimately help Dany to defeat the others and co. and that maybe he is the prince who was promised. I also like his direwolf the best.

Tyrion- I believe he still has a major part to play in the story. I always felt really bad for him. I think he is going to be some sort of advisor or something to Dany. He know a lot about dragons and such.

Sansa- I used to hate her character so much, but she's grown on me, especially now that I think she's going to eventually give Littlefinger exactly what he deserves.

Asha- I like her character. I think she's funny.

Arianne- I loved her story line in the last book. It's hard to say if she'll have anything to do with future books or not, but her plan for princess myrcella totally failed so I'm excited to see where that goes

 

Characters I'm not sure I like or not:

 

Arya- I hated her in previous books. I understand she is pretty young and she lost her whole life, but I hated reading her POVs about her whining so much and all that jazz. Though now that she's with the faceless men and she's blind, maybe her story will become more interesting and I'll like her more.

Sam- I sort of like him and sort of don't. I don't normally respect people who let themselves be bullied, and I hate how he doesn't ever stick up for himself and he lets bigger/better people do it for him. Though his POVs are mildly interesting to read, and I'm super excited to see where his story line goes now.

 

Characters I don't like

 

Cersei- While I totally hate her character and I hope she gets executed, I love her POVs. She's definitely in my top 5 POVs I love to read.

Jamie- I hate him. Everyone always talks about him being nicer and redeeming himself now that he lost his hand. No one who will push a child off a building and try and kill him or has 3 children with his sister has a redeeming quality in him. I just hope that he ends up being the little brother in the prophecy about cersei and he kills her.

I agree with the rest of your list of hated characters beside Sansa.

 

I'm not sure if I believe R+L=J, but it makes a lot of sense and it explains a lot. I never figured it out while I reading it, but I did think there was a lot of mystery surrounding Jon and I never thought that he was Neds son. And if that is true then I think that he would be the Prince who was promised.

 

Okay way too long now, I'll write more later.

[Red2111]

about Jamie. i agree that throwing Bran & the incest stuff is disgusting and in a way not forgivable. but he atleast has a good excuse & rason for it.

 

Incest - look at the rulers during that time. the Dragons were natorious for marrying brother & sister, so i can see where others would see why it wasn't such a bad idea. even so, most of the blame for the incest is on Cersies shoulders imo. she purposefully seduced Jamie and imo brain washed him to an extent. i doubt she was even a madien when they went to that Inn, yet Jamie was. Cersie also could have aborted the three kids, like she did Roberts one child; yet she chose to keep them, raise hem as Roberts, and refused to even let Jamie hold them.

 

i'm not saying Jamie's innocent in this, just that Cersie is more to blame.

 

 

Bran - even though i hate that he did it, i understand why he did it. killing Bran (which the fall should have done) was really the only way to ensure Cersie's saftey in his mind. he did it to protect his sister and the children she loved so dearley. just liek he would have killed Robert at any chance if Cersie had let him. its the same reason why i was willing to slightly forgive Tyrion if he was the one who sent the padfoot to finish Bran off; it was done out of protection and not malice. still not excusable, but it wont make me dislike him.

[hotpocket2006]

I understand he felt that he needed to do what he need to do in regards to Brand. I would've never forgiven Tyrion if he killed Brand either, and it would've made me hate him just as I do Jamie.

 

And the Targaryen's practiced incest and polygamy, but it is illegal and highly frowned upon nowadays in Westeros. In fact if it was proven the children would be killed for being "abominations."

 

Cersei is a conniving witch, but I place just as much blame on Jamie for their relationship as I do her. And killing a child who has no idea what he has just heard, is inexcusable and Jamie should be shot a killed. lulz

 

So I'll just agree to disagree on these points

[Elend]

Thanks for starting this thread, Red! I'm on a re-read right now and loving every second of it. Are you re-reading atm or only on A Feast for Crows in total?

 

Our favorites are pretty similar. I've been an Arya fanboy since the beginning. I hope to see her have some truly epic magical assassin stuff after her journey. And I hope she gets to Jon... or Bran. Think of the Starks with a potentially Faceless Man and Warg under their rankings. Sure, they may not seem like much, a cripple and a little girl... but I'd be willing to bet that in Winds of Winter these will be two of the most deadly people in Westeros.

 

I like Coldhands being Benjen and the explanation being that he's a Stark makes sense. In my re-read its becoming clearer and clearer that there is something special about the Starks; it seems everyone in the North, beyond the wall or no, knows of them. While this is natural with King Beyond the Wall and all that, it still seems strange. I just read the scene where whats her name (Osha?) gets taken by Robb after trying to kill Bran, so maybe that's why I think it. The Starks are special, magically speaking.

 

I like Tyrion and Jaime. Both are fantastic to read and while I'd not like Jaime if I knew him in reality (cockiness isn't something I admire for starters) I can get past that and just enjoy his PoV. I don't like reading Cersei's PoV though. It just grates on me.

 

Arya and Jon are my two favorite PoVs to read, even if Jon is a bit too awesome for my tastes. The crippled Bran is much more up my alley.

 

Ahhh well. Three cheers for GRRM!

 

ETA: Also, I'm a total Sam fanboy. Maybe because he reminds me of myself around 13 years old. Sam is FTW.

[The Fisher King]

Though it strikes me as beyond sad to say, and though I detest sounding like a downer, I sincerely believe that all the evidence and information we have available to us from the last several years make one of only two possibilities realistically possible concerning this once captivatingly fresh series:

 

1 It goes unfinished (indeed, I will be beyond startled if a completed ADWD is published within the next two years and that is only a single BOOK - never mind the remainder of the SERIES as a whole's completion).

 

2 We get a loooong-delayed, subpar, mess of a ADWD in a year or two followed up by a single ''Wrap-Up'' novel that is a shoddily put-together mess that rushes to tie up loose ends and allow Martin to get away from his fan's biitching and back to television and other writing that he is actually still interested in at this point in his life.

 

JMO - and, if I turn out to be wrong, it will be one of the happiest times of my life to be proven wrong.

 

 

 

Fish

[Majsju]

Apparently, Martin has informed his publisher that he only has five more chapters to write, and all those five has bits already written. So, the entire manuscript (around 1500 pages) should be done before the endof the year.

[Elend]

Apparently, Martin has informed his publisher that he only has five more chapters to write, and all those five has bits already written. So, the entire manuscript (around 1500 pages) should be done before the endof the year.

 

Yeah I mentioned that in the other thread. I think that's partly why Red bumped this one.

 

And I am horribly excited about the entire thing, almost as excited as I am about ToM (which is saying something).

[The Wolf King]

I nearly spit out my drink when I read Red call Breane, "Bernie". Don't know if was intentional or not on your part, but hilarious none the less.

 

Anyway, some of my favs froms this series...Jon, Tyrion, Jaime, Robb (I still get seriously upset when I think about the Red Wedding), Davlos. I hate Cersei with a passion, but I agree with others about her pov's bein really good. I couldn't stand Dany's pov's until the third book, but I'm likin what I've read so far that Martin has released for the next book.

 

I only got into this series this year, but it has surpassed The Black Company as my third fav book series.