A Song of Fire & Ice Book Discussion Thread (Up To Dance With Dragons)

[Werthead]

The UK cover art for ADWD has been tweaked to reflect the US artwork, though it's still in the same style as the previous novels:

 

[Red2111]

so what does everyone think this story will focus on?? that its called "Dance with Dragons" leads me to think Danny and her dragons will be the focal point.

 

maybe we'll discover who one of the other dragon riders will be *nods*

[SingleMort]

Well we know Dany's story is going to be in it from the teasers. I'd also think Jon's POV and Tyrion's will be continued, possibly Cat's too.

[Rufae]

Based upon his Blog that is Not a Blog and the free previews on his website, I say it is mainly going to focus on Dany, Tyrion, Jon and the Night Watch, and the Iron Islands guys (the Greyjoys). I think one thing that is said not to be the focus is Sansa and Littlefinger and Arya. Hopefully this won't mean he will leave the cliffhanger with Breane for the next book. That would suck.

[Kadere]

The book is said to have these PoVs: Varamyr Sixskins, Daenerys Targaryen, Jon Snow, Tyrion Lannister, Davos Seaworth, Quentyn Martell, Bran Stark, Asha Greyjoy, Theon Greyjoy, Lady Melisandre, Cersei Lannister, another character, and an epilogue character.

 

The book will focus mainly on the events in the East and the North, and towards the end he'll throw in some that were in AFfC like Cersei and Asha. We know Sansa won't be in it.

[Red2111]

PoVs:

 

Varamyr Sixskins - who??

 

Daenerys Targaryen - maybe she'll make her way back to Pentos and run into Ayra

 

Jon Snow - probably dealing with Stannis and maybe the start of the White Walker invasion

 

Tyrion Lannister - most likely meeting up with his 1st wife; maybe learning about Sansa's fate and goign to rescue her or traveling across the narrow ocean

 

Davos Seaworth - i thought he was dead maybe a POV of what happened then. probably early on in the book too

 

Quentyn Martell - who??

 

Bran Stark - maybe we'll finally find out if that dued is Ben Stark

 

Asha Greyjoy - *snuggles Asha* i really like her, i'm glad we'll be seeing her again. maybe she'll meet up with Danny (i think that she's gonna be one of the Dragon Riders personally)

 

Theon Greyjoy - hopefully his death.

 

Lady Melisandre - i can't see where a POV from her will do anything plot wise tbh

 

Cersei Lannister - hopefully Jamie will coem back in and kill her *nods*

 

another character, and an epilogue character - two new characters you think? or maybe he wanted to keep their identity a surprise ...

[Hallow]

Varamyr Sixskins - who??

 

A skinchanger (as the name implies) in the service of Mance Rayder. His eagle got brunt by Mellisandre during the battle and he fled north. He also didn't like Jon.

 

Davos Seaworth - i thought he was dead maybe a POV of what happened then. probably early on in the book too

 

I always thought it was quite obvious that Davos wasn't *really* dead, only that White Harbor pretended he was.

 

Quentyn Martell - who??

 

Son of Doran Martell, secretly on the other side of the Narrow Sea, probably seeking Daenerys.

[Erunion]

"The king was unmoved. "I have knights and lords in my service, the scions of noble Houses old in honor. They cannot be expected to serve under poachers, peasants, and murderers."

Or bastards, sire? "Your own Hand is a smuggler."

"Was a smuggler. I shortened his fingers for that. They tell me that you are the nine-hundred-ninety-eighth man to command the Night's Watch, Lord Snow. I wonder what the nine-hundred-ninety-ninth might say about these castles. The sight of your head on a spike might inspire him to be more helpful." The king lay his bright blade down on the map, along the Wall, its steel shimmering like sunlight on water. "You are only lord commander by my sufferance. You would do well to remember that." "

 

Extract from the sample chapter at GRRM's website.

 

Looks like Seaworth isn't dead, but is serving as the King's Hand. At least he is at that particular point in time.

Also, when is it said that he's dead again? I can't remember, as I'm just into Storm of Swords in my re-read.

[Kadere]

At some point after ASoS in AFfC Davos ends up in White Harbor, and is thrown in prison. Then Cersei tells them to kill him and they reportedly stick his head on a pike with an onion in his mouth. So the Davos PoV will have to be about his journey to White Harbor (where Rickon Stark and Osha are supposed to have headed after ACoK), and then his death, or they lied in their report and he's still alive. There has been no real conformation, ADwD will give us that.

[Werthead]

The current, most accurate POV count for ADWD:

 

Prologue character: Varamyr Sixskins.

Tyrion Lannister

Cersei Lannister

Daenerys Targaryen

Jon Snow

Quentyn Martell

Asha Greyjoy

Theon Greyjoy

Victarion Greyjoy

Melisandre of Asshai

Davos Seaworth

Bran Stark

Arya Stark

Epilogue character: unknown

GRRM has also said there's another POV character, but this was before it was revealed Victarion was in the book, so it might be him, or there may be one move POV as well.

 

As well as Cersei, Arya, Victarion and Asha, it is possible that some other AFFC characters will appear. GRRM has confirmed that Aeron Greyjoy, Arianne Martell and Sansa Stark will not be appearing in ADWD, but that still leaves Jaime, Brienne and Samwell who may or may not reappear. And of course we may learn of Brienne's fate through another POV, so even if she doesn't appear that's not necessarily a problem.

[Red2111]

thanks for refreshing my memory in who those characters were Hallow

 

 

 

from that excerpt Erunion posted, sounds like Jon is giving Stanis a heck of a time lol

[SingleMort]

Well I thought Cat might be in it so as we find out what happens to Brienne. I would think if they are going to be in the book it will be via one or another of their POVs.

[Erunion]

At some point after ASoS in AFfC Davos ends up in White Harbor, and is thrown in prison. Then Cersei tells them to kill him and they reportedly stick his head on a pike with an onion in his mouth. So the Davos PoV will have to be about his journey to White Harbor (where Rickon Stark and Osha are supposed to have headed after ACoK), and then his death, or they lied in their report and he's still alive. There has been no real conformation, ADwD will give us that.

 

Thanks! I'd forgotten that, but it's sorta coming back now...

I'm banking on Davos being alive though, while I suspect that Rickon and Osha are in White Harbour, under the protection of (fat) Lord Manderly.

[Werthead]

Well I thought Cat might be in it so as we find out what happens to Brienne. I would think if they are going to be in the book it will be via one or another of their POVs.

 

GRRM has not commented on Brienne being in it (since a yay or nay could be interpreted as a spoiler). I also believe GRRM's plan is not to have another Cat POV chapter from now until the end of the series.

[Werthead]

Odd we were discussing this now. GRRM has confirmed that Ser Barristan Selmy will be a POV character in ADWD, which is something a lot of people had been guessing, but it's now 100%.

[SingleMort]

GRRM has not commented on Brienne being in it (since a yay or nay could be interpreted as a spoiler). I also believe GRRM's plan is not to have another Cat POV chapter from now until the end of the series.

 

Huh ok didn't know that. But I'm would assume then that when the whole "one word" business is resolved we're going to see it from Brienne's POV then. Because it would be a bit annoying if GRRM resolved it in someone else's POV who hears about it all second-hand and after the fact.

[Kadere]

GRRM confirmed on his blog that Ser Barristan is a PoV character in A Dance with Dragons.

[Red2111]

GRRM has not commented on Brienne being in it (since a yay or nay could be interpreted as a spoiler). I also believe GRRM's plan is not to have another Cat POV chapter from now until the end of the series.

 

Huh ok didn't know that. But I'm would assume then that when the whole "one word" business is resolved we're going to see it from Brienne's POV then. Because it would be a bit annoying if GRRM resolved it in someone else's POV who hears about it all second-hand and after the fact.

 

 

2nd hand accounts of deaths arent reliable in this book. to know whether she lived or died, i'd need either a POV or a flashback froma person who actually saw it done with their own eyes. theres been other accounts of 2nd hand rumors proving false on events, mainly i'm going to point to Davos's supposed death.

 

 

did anyone catch the new episode last night. it appears HBO has decided to either confirm one of the long standing rumors within the series, or their taking creative allowances with it.

 

 

 

they showed Loras (knight of Flowers) & Renly sexually active together. i have to wonder if GRRM okay'd this, or if he didn't how he feels about this and the implications it has involving Margrets(i think thats Loras's sis's name) mainden head. i mean, if Renly was snogging her brother, then chances are Renly left her well enough alone and he really was too drunk to bed her during the wedding night

 

[Mr Ares]

did anyone catch the new episode last night. it appears HBO has decided to either confirm one of the long standing rumors within the series, or their taking creative allowances with it.

 

 

 

they showed Loras (knight of Flowers) & Renly sexually active together. i have to wonder if GRRM okay'd this, or if he didn't how he feels about this and the implications it has involving Margrets(i think thats Loras's sis's name) mainden head. i mean, if Renly was snogging her brother, then chances are Renly left her well enough alone and he really was too drunk to bed her during the wedding night

Martin confirmed that Renly and Loras were a couple years ago.

 

[Red2111]

show how up to date i am on the rumor FAQ for this serious

[Erunion]

On my first read-through, I never noticed the Renly-Loras connection. Then on my re-read, I realized just how glaringly obvious it was (I realized this, I did not discover it no the internets, I swear! ). The biggest clue is how they act together (and how Loras reacts to Renly's death). However, there are some pretty glaring statements throughout the books, from characters disparaging either Renly's or Loras's chances of getting kids, to Loras and Renly's 'praying together' the entire night before the battle.

So yeah, I don't think GRRM even needed to confirm it...

[Kadere]

Renly is “gay in the books, too,” says George R.R. Martin, the author of the bestselling novels. But online chatter suggests that not every reader picked that fact up.

 

“I never meant to make it a mystery,” Martin says. “I like to handle things subtly. I couldn’t ever actually say, ‘such-and-such is gay,’ because, as I’m sure you know, the word wasn’t invented until the 60s. And I’m talking medieval times, and I’m not going to say, ‘so-and-so is gay.’ But I thought it was pretty clear in context.”

 

You can find the article here.

[Reeve]

I have skipped this entire thread to avoid spoilers, but thought I would post anyway!

 

After numerous attempts over the years, I finally got through the first half of the first book, and then couldn't put it down so now I am suddenly on the third book lol. This series is great, but I have to say GRRM is the most unforgiving of writers. Anyone can die and it is the first fantasy book I have read where I don't know who's side I am on. The Lannisters are awful, but Tyrion is excellent. In the big battle at the end of Book 2, I found myself utterly unable to decide who I wanted to win, and even worse I had no idea who would win lol. Normally you know the "goodies" will make it, even if they sustain some heavy damage. Because anyone can die, and because there are no goodies, I don't know who to root for or why I am rooting for them lol.

 

Good stuff tho, its a pleasure to read a new fantasy book that isnt obvious.

[Erunion]

No goodies!? What are you talking about! Of course there are good guys!

Just, you know, half of them are dead. The other half are off either freezing to death or freeing slaves.

 

On the Blackwater, I wanted the Stag to beat the Lion (as that would have been better for the Wolf). But I also wanted Tyrion to win, because Tyrion is awesome.

Davos, of course, is also awesome, and I very much wanted him to win too...

[Kadere]

GRRM just posted a loooooooooong fun post about ADwD confirming that it's completely done now (appendix, acknowledgements, dedication, everything). He also goes into a lot of detail about all of his many drafts for it. He confirms there are 4 new PoV characters in the book. He also confirms a lot of PoVs that make it in, and many that don't.

 

Edit: From what I could deduce from his hints of the PoVs he says there are 16 + the Prologue and Epilogue PoVs= 18 PoVs. My calculations are:

 

1. Varamyr Sixskins

2. Jon Snow

3. Daenerys Targaryen

4. Tyrion Lannister

5. Theon Greyjoy

6. Melisandre

7. Davos Seaworth

8. Barristan Selmy

9. Asha Greyjoy

10. Victorian Greyjoy

11. Bran Stark

12. Arya Stark

13. Cersei Lannister

14. Jamie Lannister

15. Quentyn Martell

16. Areo Hotah (we know it's not Arianne leaving only Areo)

17. Someone else, no clue who but they have to be a new character because there are 4 new characters and I've only counted Melisandre, Barristan, and Quentyn.

18. Epilogue character, again no clue who, probably someone new as well.